Is there any worth to National pride?
Nerevarine
Incarnate
Damn that's a wall of text
OP
After going through it and I still stand by what I believe. But I guess your opinion will be formed of what sort of personality or mindset you have. I guess you need a healthy dose of nihilism to see things my way, but not everybody has that kind of outlook on life which is understandable.
Though before I comment on what your friends said I must say a lot of it is not written very well, which makes is hard to understand (or easy to misunderstand) what they are trying to say.
Another factor to take into consideration is confirmation bias.
From Wikipedia:
Now confirmation bias is not a bad thing since it also factors into learning things and forming habits but it can also manifest negatively such as bigotry, belief in pseudo-science, etc. It can only be reduced by critical thinking.
Because of this, I am usually very skeptical of other people's opinions because it's hard to say whether their opinions are based on what they have learned from childhood or if its a logical conclusion.
I don't agree. To survive you need water, oxygen, food, clothes and shelter. Everything beyond that is luxury (see the quote in my signature). Perhaps they mean that you need to confirm to society's standards by showing national pride (it's actually not clear if they are speaking about national pride or not, I am assuming they are) or risk ostracism. But this is no longer true in a modern society. Modern society is heavily geared towards individual freedom (even in India). To survive in a modern society you only need a job to pay for everything you need, everything else is superfluous. You don't need to have pride in your job, it's a means to an end, it's the same I think about national pride, you don't need it. Pay your taxes, don't do any crime and you have paid your dues to the state.
This whole block does not seem relevant to national pride. It does speak about individual pride which I have nothing against. I don't know what gap means in this case (or the previous block) but I assume it means lack of pride. But then again, I have nothing against pride in your family either but again it's all circumstantial, whether there are abusive parents etc.
I would never compare individual pride with national pride because, going by the example this person has given, you do not know every single person in the nation (country). When you speak about national pride, you are generally speaking about abstract things like culture, taste of food, etc. all of these are acquired tastes: Confirmation bias. Again, I am not sure they person is using the term "survival" correctly. The rest of the post does not seem relevant and I don't understand why they would say that a war will start when people don't have pride in their country.
This whole block is not really relevant. What they are calling pride is actually confirmation bias. You tend to like Indian food because you have been eating similar food since childhood and that forms a framework in your mind that this is how food should be, so when you encounter some food that does not confirm to this pre-existing belief of, your mind will literally reject it. That being said, any Indians who live abroad will develop a taste for the local food after 1-2 generations. Still, food taste is a very personal thing and I would not equate it to the nation at large.
Agreed, but I don't see how this is relevant.
Which quote? I have searched Einstein's quotes about nationalism and there seem to be many, I don't know which one in particular they are referring to.
Lol. Why not?
I am not sure what they mean by the last line? Do they mean that Indians will face racism abroad or something and having national pride will somehow overcome that?
I somewhat agree. But people outside of your family and friends by and large don't care much about you in general.
States are for ease of administration. It's only coincidental that each state in India has a distinct culture. As for family, there is really no point but society frowns on children born out of wedlock.
Again not relevant to the topic of national pride. A strawman argument actually. They are implying that by having no national pride, somehow you become an isolated, self-loathing individual. The rest if just repeating what's already been said. My stand is just the same, you don't need to have pride to live. Also, it does not affect your identity. Having less pride in your country/nation does not make you less of an Indian. In fact I'd say I am more Indian than some nationalists.
I agree somewhat. I never said that it's wrong, just that it's pointless. If feeling pride in your country makes you get through your day, that is your prerogative.
K_akash_i
In the zone
Our national anthem is written by Tagore who considered the world as one,So if u look deep enough u'd find him an internationalist who was critical of nationalism(although i'd suggest people should look upon his ideals rather than just reading these two lines.maybe u'd have a clearer interpretation than mine)
nationalism is more of a politically exploited term used for gains now
nationalism is more of a politically exploited term used for gains now
D
Deleted member 345628
Guest
This was my old argument xD
hey @Dexterminator this is really good 
it's nice to see different perspectives posted like that wait hold on, let me read
it's nice to see different perspectives posted like that wait hold on, let me read
this one is pretty balanced
It's better to be careful here about exactly how proud to be of traditions, customs, the land, languages, and the systems rather than clump them all together in some kind of misdirected attachment or inertia against change, and stifle any of them from evolving.
Like I'm really proud of my cable operator too, but only to an extent.
It's better to be careful here about exactly how proud to be of traditions, customs, the land, languages, and the systems rather than clump them all together in some kind of misdirected attachment or inertia against change, and stifle any of them from evolving.
Like I'm really proud of my cable operator too, but only to an extent.
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Deleted member 345628
Guest
@Anorion Before @Desmond 's argument I kinda fell like there was something they were trying to convey which I didn't really understand . And the last block of text made some sense so I thought its may be afterall good to have pride in one's nation .
But after his argument I came to conclusion that TLDR and rushing into conclusion is a bad idea .
But after his argument I came to conclusion that TLDR and rushing into conclusion is a bad idea .
If I were to try and guess, I think the argument is actually unitarism vs pluralism
In this case I would like to see it play out, because it is a process. This is important, maybe it is the country going through psychopolitical load shedding. If you want to understand the roots of everything that made us think we are a country, I suggest this book > Sources of Indian Traditions.
It covers entire subcontinent. No man can be safe while his neighbor's house burns. I also think of it in a new way now. Ever since the digital revolution started, we take pride in our virtual tribes. We should lean into that, these imaginary villages are the fortresses of the future.
In this case I would like to see it play out, because it is a process. This is important, maybe it is the country going through psychopolitical load shedding. If you want to understand the roots of everything that made us think we are a country, I suggest this book > Sources of Indian Traditions.
It covers entire subcontinent. No man can be safe while his neighbor's house burns. I also think of it in a new way now. Ever since the digital revolution started, we take pride in our virtual tribes. We should lean into that, these imaginary villages are the fortresses of the future.
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Deleted member 345628
Guest
Thanks for the book , will check it out now .
SaiyanGoku
kamehameha!!
If I had the opportunity or money, I'd have emigrated long ago.
Listen @Dexterminator what you are doing is very important, go out, listen to people, document their views! I used to do this kind of thing
Having a dialogue is paramount
Im just glad that you have friends who are willing to talk and engage, instead of just being "it's us or them."
Having a dialogue is paramount
Im just glad that you have friends who are willing to talk and engage, instead of just being "it's us or them."
D
Deleted member 345628
Guest
I totally got what you meant , in case of me , I try to engage in conversations as much as I can . I feel like I learn a lot from conversations and pick new perspectives all the time . Looking back 4 years and comparing myself , I am no longer the person I was back then . It's mostly the conversations that helped me to pick new music , books , movies .... etc . People around me in real life (hometown) are mostly dumb dumbs , so I have a couple of friends from my University and I mostly talk to online people .
But , that was so dammn cool to listen from you , thanks . Will keep this post pinned on to my notes .
quicky008
Technomancer
Yes,provided you have loads of money and belong to the privileged class that never get to see the ugly side of living in a corruption and poverty ridden country like this. Or is just plain delusional with extreme patriotic fervour.
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quicky008
Technomancer
sigh My feelings exactly-i have long cherished the desire to leave this country but have neither the means nor the opportunity to do so.
This! Anyone who say they love to live in India either don't have the opportunity/money or they are the privileged top 0.1% incl those having day dreams of great nation.
@quicky008