Is America better than India???

[mediator]

I wonder what you'd say if Pakistan _had_ given an ultimate response, that it would not settle for anything less than a complete tranfer of Kashmir to Pakistan. More fighting?


The same can be said of India. Indians feel that Pakistan is stubbornly not surrendering. I suppose Pakistanis would think the same of us.

War was not fought on US soil, but enough of them were killed in the Pacific.



How do you know? They probably want to stop the fighting as much as we do.



Oh? They're targetting Hizbollah attack stations, regardless of whether the splash damage kills civilians. This isn't retarded?



There were people poor then. There are people poor now. If we can launch satellites, no we are not developed.

I cud make a little of what u r trying to say! neways lets go....
How do u think Pakistan will give ultimate response? It lost 3 battles to us and now is stinging us like mosquitoes. It knows it cant win in fair battle face to face, man to man. So is taking path of cowardice and attacking from behind.

I never mentioned of Kashmir's surrender, but the terrorist activities associated with it and its consequences. Neways u said it.......interesting........so lets talk abt it too.
U say India thinks pakistan will surrender kashmir. U know in last major battle which India won....it occupied half the pakistan! Forget abt kashmir. But it then returned it away because of UN intervention. My dear India only hopes that PoK is returned back. India also offered to pakistan to make Pok as permanent border and setle kashmir dispute. But they didnt listen. Only pakistan dreams that India will surrender Kashmir. As for India it has the capability to get back PoK whenever it wants. India can do it in less than day. I think ur undermining the capabilities of our armed forces. But it needs govt orders for that.

War was not fought on US soil, but enough of them were killed in the Pacific.

Yea enough were killed! But were american civilians were too killed? Were their building damaged? Was their homeland damaged in anyway except the soldiers killed? I think u didnt get the picture !!

Its very basic of civilians killed in war. Thats why nobody wants war. If it thats simple the n there wud not be kashmir problem in first place. Think abt it! If pakistan nukes or India nukes will it kill armed forces only?
I donno why are u so much against Israel. But if u think differently then u'll see that if Israel be behaving like these hizbolah terrorists then the whole of lebanon and all wud be toast already !! It is doing maximum to ensure minimum civilian casuality and all armed forces do so except US u can say.

I dunno what u tried to said abt satellites stuff........but making satellites do make u technologically advanced. Did that reduce the illiteracy? or the immigration or corruption India has?

Please try to classify ur thoughts, make some distinction between technologically advancement and illiteracy. India being advanced because of unique capabilities of armed forces and satellites etc is very different from being backward because of illiteracy in major parts and no control over immigration.
U can say that external image of India is rising, it is getting on ther verge of development.
But what abt internal image? What abt rural areas and farmers commiting suicide each day?
See the picture clearly. These are 2 different things!!

 

[Sykora]

Please try to classify ur thoughts, make some distinction between technologically advancement and illiteracy. India being advanced because of unique capabilities of armed forces and satellites etc is very different from being backward because of illiteracy in major parts and no control over immigration.

I never said that the two are the same. I said that the government is getting its priorities wrong. It should be targetting illiteracy rather than creating new war machines.

Development of a nation is not just the improvement of its image to the outside world. It is the increase in standard of living for _everyone_ .

I dunno what u tried to said abt satellites stuff........but making satellites do make u technologically advanced. Did that reduce the illiteracy? or the immigration or corruption India has?

No, it didn't reduce corruption or immigration. So we should address those issues directly, instead of launching satellites. (If you don't get my point about satellites, see my first post.)

It knows it cant win in fair battle face to face, man to man.

What is a fair battle? Do you know what it is? Have you heard the saying "All is fair in love and war"? If both parties are desperate for the win, then they will use _any_ means to do so. Since that has not been done yet, it implies that the parties involved are not desperate to win.

I think ur undermining the capabilities of our armed forces.

Not at all. If India mounts a major attack on Kashmir, they will take it, as you say. But then, as you also say, the Pakistanis, being unable to beat India in a 'fair battle', resort to terrorism and will use their Nuclear Capabilities to hit India where it hurts most -- The civilian centers. If this happens, India will use its nuclear capabilities to attack Pakistan. Then US will jump in to help Pakistan. Then Russia will jump in to help India. We get World War 3.

All nuclear capable countries know that all it takes to start WW3 is one strike. One bomb dropped in the wrong place. India knows this as well as anyone else, so in effect, it _can't_ retake Kashmir.

 

[Venom]

having more success in technological path is a clear and strong indication of growing literacy

 

[Sykora]

having more success in technological path is a clear and strong indication of growing literacy

Granted, but that growth is too concentrated. What I mean is this.

Those people who get past school and university are those who are responsible for growth. What is happening is that this group of people are being trained in very specialized areas to increase their knowledge.

However, not enough effort is being done in getting the majority of people to this level. For that to happen, technology is needed. I'm afraid that leads to a catch-22. :\

 

[ilugd]

As far as i see it, i think the chalta hai attitude is the biggest problem. How many of us have interfered and tried to correct people who are lazy, corrupt or unfair. Unless each one of us takes it upon himself to cajole and correct people to make better and efficient use of their time in a honest and (atleast partly) selfless way) India is going to keep hobbling along in the same old rut of redtape , corruption and indifference/injustice.

Some fool said once, ask not what your country has done for you. Ask what you have done for your country. Can any of us answer that?

I am calling that guy a fool, because I for one cannot answer that question.

 

[Ultimate Z Fighter]

Definately

 

[mediator]

I never said that the two are the same. I said that the government is getting its priorities wrong. It should be targetting illiteracy rather than creating new war machines.

Development of a nation is not just the improvement of its image to the outside world. It is the increase in standard of living for _everyone_ .

Agreed! But plzzzzzz not like arjun singh's way.

No, it didn't reduce corruption or immigration. So we should address those issues directly, instead of launching satellites.

Agreed!

What is a fair battle? Do you know what it is? Have you heard the saying "All is fair in love and war"? If both parties are desperate for the win, then they will use _any_ means to do so. Since that has not been done yet, it implies that the parties involved are not desperate to win.

Bhai y did u bring love in between? Neways thats what I said Pakistan is stinging us from behind and is engaged in proxy war. And our stupid leaders dont do anything even after so many attacks in India, with so many ppl dying. Each year atleast 100 ppl are killed due to terrorist strikes and many jawans die.
Tell me which is better : Continuing the present scenario with more than 100 ppl dying each year and govt doing nothing or striking their nuclear installations,removing the fear of their nukes and then dealing with these mosquitoes. Yea I know paki may use nukes. But it will be for once n over . But if it does use , then my friend I fear Pakistan wont be visible on world map. No more deadly strikes will be there in India.
Let them get the real impulse of India's aggression.

If this happens, India will use its nuclear capabilities to attack Pakistan. Then US will jump in to help Pakistan. Then Russia will jump in to help India. We get World War 3.

Hahahaha this was nice. Neways if pakis use nukes...then believe me not even US will be able to save pakistan. Their game will be over. Neways I think there's not much time left when India will be developing its own missile shield.

 

[Satissh S]

ahh. .
India is way better than any other country for the simple reasons that we enjoy freedom at its maxim here and also i cant tell otherwise as its our country as none of us will tell, well except for a few annoyances like ignorant politicians its fine as its now.

Maybe we should look to help people by donating something or somepart of our earnings to places such as cancer institute etc., rather than debating here

btw i feel most of you guys need girl friends

 

[Sykora]

India is way better than any other country for the simple reasons that we enjoy freedom at its maxim here

That's a biased view. If you're rich, you can have equivalent freedom anywhere.

btw i feel most of you guys need girl friends

...

 

[Satissh S]

That is not, freedom can be got from satisfaction, not necessarily richness. A self-sustained life == freedom. self-sustenance != being_rich.

 

[Sykora]

In today's world, you can buy almost anything.

 

[ssdivisiongermany1933]

No body can challenge the supermacy of Indian defence of forces they are best in the world . Army can easliy kick away pakistan like that it did in 1965,1971 and 1999 . Kargil was won in less than two months . No army in world can win kargil in such a less time . The indian army has both goodies of Israeli and former soviet Army which defeated nazis .And talking about America , India is certainly better than America . indians can survive in any condition . And after 20-25 years america will survive on Indian charity this is sure . The collapse of America is just on the bay

 

[Sykora]

You're proud of your country, and that's a good thing. Now let's see then...

No body can challenge the supermacy of Indian defence of forces they are best in the world . Army can easliy kick away pakistan like that it did in 1965,1971 and 1999 . Kargil was won in less than two months . No army in world can win kargil in such a less time .

*coughs* Indian defence forces are nowhere near the best in the world. The US has the largest defence budget and China has the largest army. US military technology is way ahead of Indian, and most other country's technology. If it _had_ to win Kargil, the US army would have won in far short a time.

The indian army has both goodies of Israeli and former soviet Army which defeated nazis .And talking about America , India is certainly better than America .

That was then. During WW2, the US were only beginning to come into their strength. Things have progressed a long way since then.

indians can survive in any condition .

Hardly. Indians are, after all, only human, like everybody else.

And after 20-25 years america will survive on Indian charity this is sure . The collapse of America is just on the bay

Perhaps, but most certainly not sure.

Like I said, you're a true patriot, but try to keep a grip on reality.

 

[ssdivisiongermany1933]

by the way it took USA to win iraq more than one and half months .which pretty shame for US army

well go and see the homework done by india in 1971 , specially "battle of Longewala" in rajasthan . No army in world can do it .visit *en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Longewala and see the supermacy of indians at battlefield . Indian army under british played a imp role in both world wars .

Jai Hind

 

[mediator]

Like I said, you're a true patriot, but try to keep a grip on reality.

*coughs* Indian defence forces are nowhere near the best in the world. The US has the largest defence budget and China has the largest army. US military technology is way ahead of Indian, and most other country's technology. If it _had_ to win Kargil, the US army would have won in far short a time.

coughs*
On contrary, I think u dont keep check on reality!
And the reality is Indian airforce is the best in the world...i.e NO 1... not by quantity but by techniques and quality. I think u dont read army reports and news papers. In therecent Indo-US joint air excercises......US pilots experienced embarrasement and inferiority and when they saw the techniques of Indian pilots and that too in MIGs ...forget about Sukhois and Mirages.
One american captain himself said that we need to do more.
And as far as experience is concerned Indian armed forces do have more experience than any other nation's armed forces. We have deserts,snows and all sort natural calamaties taking place in India. And at that time only armed forces increase their experience.
Yea I agree as far quantity is concerned India is in top 5....believe me!

Indian Navy also enjoys the almost the same repute as airforce but is not the best.Same for Indian army.....but size of Indian army is way greater than US.

And dont think India doesnt have anything far superior to US.
We have the DEADLY brahmos missiles christened "fire and forget missiles".

by the way it took USA to win iraq more than one and half months .which pretty shame for US army

well go and see the homework done by india in 1971 , specially "battle of Longewala" in rajasthan . No army in world can do it .visit *en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Longewala and see the supermacy of indians at battlefield . Indian army under british played a imp role in both world wars .

Completely agreed!

 

[Sykora]

by the way it took USA to win iraq more than one and half months .which pretty shame for US army

I knew you'd say that. First of all, it was a hesitant move, because it didn't have UN backing. Secondly, it wasn't only a US vs Iraq battle, it also had British, Australian and Japanese troops. Coordination wasn't at optimum. Besides, what makes you think India could have done any better?

visit *en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Longewala and see the supermacy of indians at battlefield

That was 35 years ago.

No army in world can do it .

That's a short-sighted statement.

Indian army under british played a imp role in both world wars .

That's it isn't it? They were under British command. Individually, Indians are brilliant. But there is some friction in doing things collectively. Actually, the Indian army under the command of the british had some battles against the Indian Nationalist Army, headed by Chandra Bose, which invaded India along with Japanese forces. So you see, Indians were actually on both sides of the line, and spent their time defending. For India, this is important, but in the world scenario, not very.

The USAF is the largest and most technologically advanced modern air force in the world, with over 9,000 aircraft in service and about 352,000 men and women on active duty.

The US have the best air force in the world...

Actually, Israel has the best airforce in the world.

I freely admit that The indian military is among the best in the world. I also freely admit that it has a very good chance of becoming the _best_ military in the world in about 10 or so years. I am also saying that such is not the case now. Moreover, it shouldn't be that way. Do you know what Pakistan's National Budget looks like?

Let me show you :
60% - Defence
36% - Academic institutions producing knowledge for use by defence.
4% - Human Development

btw, these figures are about 2 years old.

Certainly this is a very drastic situation. While India is not near as bad as this, there are better uses for money going into defence.

US can afford their monstrous $419 billion defence budget because :
1) Their's is a fully capitalist economy. Thier government doesn't spend money on things which the Indian government does here. Private companies take care of it.

2) They already looked after public amenites, before they became a super-power, and have more or less.

Once again, I'll say. I'm not saying that India is not a very strong country. As far as I know, it is. What I _am_ trying to say is that there are also other strong countries, some a bit stronger than India is.

 

[Third Eye]

India is the 12th richest countey in the world surpassing russia n austraila.

 

[mediator]

That was 35 years ago.

Are u an Indian? Coz If u were u wud have understood things pretty easily.
What @ssdivisiongermany1933 meant was.... that India was so brilliant and that too 35 yrs ago....that it kicked paki @rse with such courage and mind. And US cudnt do it today also with advanced weaponry. I hope u got it now. Neways I shudnt have to write it......u shud have understood such an easy point.

And some times u say US is best and sometimes ur saying ISREAL is best. Please have a static opinion.

I knew you'd say that. First of all, it was a hesitant move, because it didn't have UN backing. Secondly, it wasn't only a US vs Iraq battle, it also had British, Australian and Japanese troops. Coordination wasn't at optimum. Besides, what makes you think India could have done any better?

Hesitant move u say? huh, Us was after iraqi OIL from the start!! It was its intention to do so and u say hesitent? Neways US sent its troops first and when its dead soldiers counts started increasing then only it urged Nato allies to step in..........It also asked India....I hope u dont know that ! i wonder what u wud have said if India was also in the same line with NATO allies then. And u say UN backing? Cmon man u living in dreams? UN is a puppet whose strings are controlled by US alone. If UN be alive actively then Iraq wudnt be destroyed in the first place, vietnam war wudnt be initiated.......Pakistan wud have been isolated completely and transfer of tech like F-16 fighters and other weaponry be banned already. But still US pledges support to that terrorist country. What UN is doing? If such an organization existed in real world then there wud be no violence like such. UN is just for name. Wake up!!
And besides if US is that powerful why did it need help frm other countires on IRAQ?

That's it isn't it? They were under British command. Individually, Indians are brilliant. But there is some friction in doing things collectively. Actually, the Indian army under the command of the british had some battles against the Indian Nationalist Army, headed by Chandra Bose, which invaded India along with Japanese forces. So you see, Indians were actually on both sides of the line, and spent their time defending. For India, this is important, but in the world scenario, not very.

So u saying Indian army did not gain any experience then?? We were 300 yrs under british rule....didnt we learn ENglish? I think that was only +ve development under british rule.....like abolishing caste system,purdah,child marriage and promotion of women education etc etc!!

US can afford their monstrous $419 billion defence budget because :
1) Their's is a fully capitalist economy. Thier government doesn't spend money on things which the Indian government does here. Private companies take care of it.

2) They already looked after public amenites, before they became a super-power, and have more or less.

Agreed! And India cant achieve such status unless there is no interference from politicians......but who'll correct them and bring us outta that misery and badluck......thats a different debate!
But still indian economy is rising. An american businessman and head of some company himself stated that " Its amazing that In such a vast country with such diversity....people sell stuff @1 cent and still make comfortablle money"!!

Let me show you :
60% - Defence
36% - Academic institutions producing knowledge for use by defence.
4% - Human Development

btw, these figures are about 2 years old.

And please dont post old statistics. We are talking abt latest developments and so please do post about latest statistics of advancements. We are not comparing the mights of the country that used to exist 2 or 10 yrs ago !!
My point is please read military reports actively and not once in 2 yrs!!

And yeah PLEASE quote my points too in ur next post......I'm also actively debating here. I also like to see my name in others posts. U r the only one who is getting famous here and getting embedded in everyone's post for corrections.

 

[Sykora]

Are u an Indian? Coz If u were u wud have understood things pretty easily.

I resent that remark. I am an Indian, but I have travelled the world and am trying to bring that knowledge to bear. We are having a philosophical debate, let us both try to refrain from personal attacks.

that India was so brilliant and that too 35 yrs ago....that it kicked paki @rse with such courage and mind

Granted.

And US cudnt do it today also with advanced weaponry.

On what basis do you say that?

And some times u say US is best and sometimes ur saying ISREAL is best. Please have a static opinion.

Opinions are anything but static. They keep changing as the information available changes. Israel is the world's most targeted nation. They have many open enemies, and must protect themselves. This necessity has led them to train one of the best militaries in the world. However, they do not have the money to spend on exhorbitant budgets like the US do, also, they cannot spend on military research.

Hesitant move u say? huh, Us was after iraqi OIL from the start!! It was its intention to do so

Iraq was a mistake. I agree with that. I was talking about the military execution of the campaign, not the reasons for it. If UN backing had been there, more force would have been used.

And u say UN backing? Cmon man u living in dreams? UN is a puppet whose strings are controlled by US alone.

The UN Security council has 5 permanent members, of which only one is US. If you'll remember, UN backing was withdrawn because France and Russia refused to comply. It is not completely controlled by the US. Talks are on to get India and Japan a permanent seat, but frankly, I don't have much hope.

If UN be alive actively then Iraq wudnt be destroyed in the first place, vietnam war wudnt be initiated.......Pakistan wud have been isolated completely and transfer of tech like F-16 fighters and other weaponry be banned already.

The UN has obligations to _all_ member countries, including India _and_ Pakistan. This means it cannot isolate Pakistan so easily, because then, by the same token, it must isolate India, and that's not too easy. Terrorists are a nation unto themselves. They give up their allegiances when they resort to terror. They may say that they fight for such a cause, but the country leaders do not share their views. If General Musharraf had openly admitted that he advocated the terrorist attacks on India, then the Indian army would have crushed them a long time ago, as you have pointed out, they have done before. However, the Pakistan government condemned the attacks on India, so they don't have any obligation to the terrorists. The point being blown out of proportion is that many terrorists are mingling in Pakistan. They may as well be in India, but they feel that they are being wronged by us, so they take extreme action.

Its amazing that In such a vast country with such diversity....people sell stuff @1 cent and still make comfortablle money"!!

Things cost less, we pay less, but we also earn less. It balances out. Why do you think many young professionals want to work overseas? Because the pay is more, and they have more money to spend here, where things are cheaper. That is changing though, as you said, the Indian economy is doing much better.

And please dont post old statistics.

Give me evidence to suggest that these figures have changed drastically in the last 2 years.

And yeah PLEASE quote my points too in ur next post......I'm also actively debating here. I also like to see my name in others posts.

eh...sorry.

 

[Third Eye]

man US destroyed iraq and you think US can't defeat pakistan.many iraqis are happy with us coz they get rid of talibanis.US can defeat pak easily if india allowed US to fight from our side.