Developers cooling on Windows desktop, study finds

[mediator]

Yea, u have no interest in EXPLAINING...like u really cud! How cute! You r just here to troll and like to get urself mocked don't u....ur lovely timepass? And about tech. limitations, we had a long long debate which u unfortunately cudn't even quote correctly and follow the general debate ethics of quoting and replying properly!

Ive explained my opinion, youve explained your opinion (both on the matter, as well as on my opinion)... [size=+1]I am not going to justify my opinion[/size]...

Also, please learn to differentiate opinion and fact. Bargain implies an agreement between parties fixing obligations of each. Whatever the justification, he was bargaining. [size=+2]Thats a fact.[/size] Whether his justification of the bargain is reasonable is subject to ones opinion. Your opinion differs from mine.

Huh, u cudn't even justify how the MVP was bargaining! Was that ur "opinion" again? Sire, we are not interested in ur expert opinions! Who needed courts if everybody started giving their opinions and the case cud be solved that easily?? I quoted the links, showed the incorrect link also, The EULAS, the mails, the facts etc thinking that may be u cud entertain me......dont u like to read them properly? Ah I forgot ur general common sense of missing the words like those last 3 words by Jamie! How amusing was that!!

So, if u r confusing ur "opinion" of MVP "bargain" that u call it so cutely with "fact", then u surely need mental help. And thats a well acknowledged "fact" now so clearly decipherable from ur posts!

By the way, I am sure you know that posts in chit chat section dont add to your post count...

Oh, so u can reply after all! How nice of u!! U cud have done better in quoting the relevant parts of my posts!!

Here too u didn't even quote the relevant part of my previous post! Damn no matter how hard I try, if I make it in bolds or increase the size to catch ur attention, still u fail to quote n reply to it!! Kids are much better learning that ways! And u say I insulted u? How dare u!!

So yes, u explained ur opinion!! U did that long back. But if u cudn't or didn't wanted to justify it, then u cud have just said so! Was that hard? Why even mock urself around by making others repeat all around, and that too in bolds with size increased so that u can see the things clearly, and then even lying? Were u testing my patience?

AFter all such time where I have been telling u that the debate matured to professional EULA long back and where u trolled and whined about express edition and the MVP, u come now and whine that u dont want to justify on the professional one? And now, when I entertained ur requests and whinings about MVP and express edition, u don't even want to quote and reply to that too or atleast pay some attention to the bolded parts?
BAd BAd Arun....no cerelax for u!!

 

[praka123]

In a Nutshell,(without any humiliation to anyone expected)
GPL and many Such S/w Licenses are meant to be in a FOSS atmosphere or it is best work with FOSS.GPL for Window$ is an extension-that depends upon the developers side.
GPL works perfect in FOSS like GNU/Linux.but may not be that good when it comes to closed source Operating Systems.
_-_-_-_-_-_-_
what M$ did to the MVP is still unjustifiable.Hope people/devels/programmers never do blind faith on a BIG corporation.It feels cool if u got a Harley here in India,but dont expect the tag given by any company is the ultimate.

 

[gxsaurav]

mediator,

u sure r an idiot not because u r uncapable of understanding but because u don't want to understand.

u have a thinking made that anything MS makes is bad. we gave u explanation why the MVP was sued but u r unable to understand it due to lack of understaning features in your head. Sorry, no matter how much we try to polish a turd... u will remain a turd. u don't debate, u whine due to lack of understanding capability.

 

[mediator]

MS cudn't tell "what license terms" he was violating or reply to that poor MVP asking for clarification and now we have MS-fanboys saying that they gave the explanation and more amusingly a priest telling "we" gave the explanation??

From the beginning I have been asking "where" [SIZE=+1]where[/SIZE] [SIZE=+2]where[/SIZE]. All the time I quoted the EULA, the mails and what was relevant. What did the bunch of MS fanboys do? Gave their lovely "opinions" confusing them with facts? Shud I increase the size of the posts/emails and show it again? U cudn't even quote the EULA and u say "we"? Man have some self-respect. MS-fanboyism and ur fanboyic flames wont take u newhere. Those flames just bounced off my head, but how pityful I guess the whole debate bounced off ur head!!

 

[gxsaurav]

MS cudn't tell "what license terms" he was violating or reply to that poor MVP asking for clarification

Clarification : You cannot make a hack to enable & use a disabled features in the free Visual Studio Express edition using some add on. This is what the MVP violated. However this is too much for you to understand.

From the beginning I have been asking "where" [SIZE=+1]where[/SIZE] [SIZE=+2]where[/SIZE]. All the time I quoted the EULA, the mails and what was relevant. What did the bunch of MS fanboys do? Gave their lovely "opinions" confusing them with facts? Shud I increase the size of the posts/emails and show it again? U cudn't even quote the EULA and u say "we"? Man have some self-respect. MS-fanboyism and ur fanboyic flames wont take u newhere. Those flames just bounced off my head, but how pityful I guess the whole debate bounced off ur head!!

Just your lack of Understanding. EULA has restriction so that no one can violate the MS Windows licensing agreement, however it also gives the developer a choice whether to make his application open source or closed source, unlike GPL in which the source code must be made open source, which paralyzes the Innovation factor.

This is the nutshell. What happened with that MVP, we don't know. We don't know what all terms he violated except for the one I told above, due to which all which we are saying is just our opinion & not facts. Facts are given on the basis of the mails & articles on the net, which for some reason is too hard for your to understand. So don't ask us & waste forum storage space.

 

[mediator]

Why r u crying and moaning again n again like someone slapped u hard and put a hot rusted iron rod in ur underwear and ur rear? Besides, u r just repeating what others "opined" before much better than u. U r doing nuthing as compared to them. Reply to the "facts" that I quoted [SIZE=+1]DIRECTLY[/SIZE] from the mails, EULA etc instead of giving ur little "expert opinions" again n again thinking ur little whinings might shadow the reality. Keep an eye on the incorrect link in EULA toooo, coz u r an MVP too and I dont really want that u too to get a gang bang from MS!!

Do try to read this mail slowly in the morning or at any time when u aren't feeling disoriented. Understand what it means!

Jason,

In our last conference call you mentioned numerous ways in which you
believed I was in breach of the Visual Studio SDK licence agreement.
You also said that adding buttons to the Express SKU may be a breach
of Microsoft's copyright.

The code you believe violates the Visual Studio SDK licence agreement
is present in all versions of TestDriven.NET (but is only actually
invoked when executing inside a Visual Studio 2005 Team Edition). It
is therefore the case that removing support for the Express SKU
wouldn't remedy the licence situation. Even if Microsoft chose not to
pursue this perceived licence breach, it would still leave any future
versions of TestDriven.NET in a vulnerable position.

I have therefore decided to remove all references to Visual Studio SDK
assemblies. I find this situation regrettable as it does limit
integration possibilities. I'm planning to discuss the issues raised
and find out how other add-in developers interface with the Visual
Studio SDK. I have seen many blog entries that seem to encourage
add-in developers to circumvent the PLK mechanism (assuming that is
what casting the DTE object to IServiceProvider does).

As far as copyright is concerned, I still fail to understand - despite
having researched the subject - how extending an application could be
construed as a violation. I would appreciate if you could clarify
further this issue.

Regards,
Jamie.

[I never received a reply to this email]

So @MS-priest, since u cant quote even 10% of my replies, so atleast take a look at this and reply to that MVP which ofcors MS didn't cared to do so. If u feel ur mood is ON at any time, then do try to quote/reply the rest of my replies as well. I hope MS-fanboys are better than MS itself in justifying their "opinions" atleast rarely!!

MS: U violated, yes u violated, but u violated, we r telling that u violated!
GX: U wont understand, u r a <insert ur flame>, u wont understand, u lack understanding!

Nice going dood! U r on the right path to surely get a job in MS!!

 

[MetalheadGautham]

lets wake this sleeping beauty up with a kiss of a post, shall we?

I think the main reason MS is loosing out developers is because:
​

1. The Wallet Factor

because M$ OS Windows needs you to pay for using it, there will be lesser people who are able to access it. So say you are making a big app for an industry, that is free as a stripped down version for home use. If the program is linux compatible, more people will be able to use it, and the same may later start businesses to use the full version. hence you get more money.

2. EULA Woes

several M$ EULA statements are bottlenecks for developers. This has been discussed already for a long time in this topic, so I won't touch it.

3. JAVA JAR Files

mainly concerning free software developers(atleast, those who made freeware in the begening), JAR files are a way one can make a program that runs on virtually ANY OS. You can have fully GUIed programs, that are just the same files for all operating systems. no need of special porting for indivudual OSes. Thus, JAVA based GUIed apps are the best for a starting developer. this gives expoture to hime more rapidly than anything else, as all users can review it. The question such people ask is this: if I have a way to make a program that runs on all platforms, why the **** should I make it windows only and be at a loss? even paid software makers are concidering this exiting feature of java, but ofcourse, with a wrapper around the JAR file for each OS.

4. QT4, GTK2+,wxWidgets etc

such platforms are senior to .net, and tested by time supporting good languages(C&C++) as well as being multiplatform. they are also similar solutions to programmers who atleast need to support major OSes. besides, C and C++ are industry standards and many learn them at school. So these free multiplatform developement kits are ideally prefered to paid stuff running only on M$ software.

5. The Y generation and Linux

the new generation is more exposed to Linux and its benifits. It has gained knowledge and inspiration from linux whose use is ever increasing. This has caused even big companies to notice linux. So linux compatible apps are becoming more and more in demand

6. Improving performance of other OSes

Lets face it. Windows 98 was the best home OS when released. Linux was still geekish, Macs had no popular support. BSD - bhool ja use agar thu admi hai tho. Solaris - was it even fully developed then?
But now, The foes of M$ are emerging as powerful if not more powerful than windows. So its natural that more apps are being written for them

7. Viruses

No developer wants his software to be attacked by viruses. In windows, thats exactly what happens. The best apps are not spares. So they go to other platforms which are more difficult to infect.

 

[The_Devil_Himself]

^^nice,fully agreed about the limitation of 'certain' programming platforms.nicely written.

 

[praka123]

gtk2+ =nice!
Java=the solution for cross platform s/w.
GPL=freedom

 

[gxsaurav]

1. The Wallet Factor

because M$ OS Windows needs you to pay for using it, there will be lesser people who are able to access it. So say you are making a big app for an industry, that is free as a stripped down version for home use. If the program is linux compatible, more people will be able to use it, and the same may later start businesses to use the full version. hence you get more money.

What...how...when...kaise? When did linux occupied 95% of the total OS market share out there? Last I heard Windows Rules the OS market which means if there is a program for Windows then more people will use it compared to Linux which only a small percentage of total OS user population uses.

2. EULA Woes

several M$ EULA statements are bottlenecks for developers. This has been discussed already for a long time in this topic, so I won't touch it.

Lolz...

3. JAVA JAR Files

mainly concerning free software developers(atleast, those who made freeware in the begening), JAR files are a way one can make a program that runs on virtually ANY OS. You can have fully GUIed programs, that are just the same files for all operating systems. no need of special porting for indivudual OSes.

Hmm...contact Arya about why JAVA sux & why native apps are better

Java is good, but not always the best solution. Java apps do not integrate in the OS compared to native apps, neither they have the Same speed & most important they don't have the OS like native look & feel.

Using JAVA to make an app makes sense where it is aplicable. but tell me...ever saw .net, C# & what not which runs fine on Symbian, OS X, & Linux platform by Mono Project. A developer can very well make a application in .net & port it to other platforms using a wrapper.

Thus, JAVA based GUIed apps are the best for a starting developer.

I don't know much about programming but so far all those friends I have asked....JAVA apps are hard to create then .net apps. Hack, even I was able to make a WMP based audio player in VS 2008 here in my home with Expression Blend based UI in 2 hrs, it's another thing that I forgot to add a close button in it & I had to use task manager to end taks it (sorry, programming noob here )

4. QT4, GTK2+,wxWidgets etc

such platforms are senior to .net, and tested by time supporting good languages(C&C++) as well as being multiplatform.

Even .net is cross platform now.

they are also similar solutions to programmers who atleast need to support major OSes.

Major OS out there = Windows.

C and C++ are industry standards and many learn them at school. So these free multiplatform developement kits are ideally prefered to paid stuff running only on M$ software.

ever saw Picasa? It is made for Windows but also runs on Linux.

This has caused even big companies to notice linux. So linux compatible apps are becoming more and more in demand

The only major reason for companies to go for linux is money.

But now, The foes of M$ are emerging as powerful if not more powerful than windows. So its natural that more apps are being written for them

Hmm...u still didn't read the "Windows for dummies" book, did u?

7. Viruses

No developer wants his software to be attacked by viruses. In windows, thats exactly what happens. The best apps are not spares. So they go to other platforms which are more difficult to infect.

Tell me a single virus which affects a software like Winamp (3rd party) & not the OS...

gautam, seriously your reasons are as lame as Bush saying he didn't attack iraq for oil.

 

[din]

The only major reason for companies to go for linux is money.

LOL, just can't control laughter !!! Sorry.

I think you are posting this may be 100th time ?

People are moving to Linux and Opensource not just because of money (now I am telling this 101th time lol). Yes, money always matter (100 Windows = 100 * 5000 Rs, 100 Linux = 1 * 50 Rs - CD cost !) but that is not the only reason. Stability, reliability and a lot of other factors are there. Check the list of large companies (India and Aborad) who migrated to Lin / Opensource, and read the details of their study, implementation etc if you still believe - it is all about money.

Linux - It is NOT all about money Honey

 

[a_k_s_h_a_y]

Well its true .. let me give the explanation that our Computer Science HOD gave us in college !!

Product based companies write applications for Linux and they love to do so because of More Power in developing applications !

but then Microsoft comes and tells product based software companies "You get full support from MS free MS software Write software for MS only "
and they become partners ! and support each other !

also the wide use of windows convicnes PBSC to write them for windows
best example is Adobe !

but that's going to change with linux adoption !
Software service industry has to just follow the instructions of the client .. when clients choose to use linux platfrom .. MS can try to woo them giving discounts in WINDOWS os !

The rate at which CS Engineering students are being trained in Linux in IITs and NITs and Our College too is real bad news for windows !

 

[Faun]

What...how...when...kaise?

lol

Hmm...contact Arya about why JAVA sux & why native apps are better

better say google sucks and world sucks

Java is good, but not always the best solution. Java apps do not integrate in the OS compared to native apps,

Java apps do not integrate with OS cuz that posses a security risk to user computer, its like JAVA apps run in a sandbox.

neither they have the Same speed

speed was a factor in java 2 ut now its java 6.

& most important they don't have the OS like native look & feel.

thats cuz u dont want ur application to run on windows only, u can use native OS look but thats not protability,

Using JAVA to make an app makes sense where it is aplicable. but tell me...ever saw .net, C# & what not which runs fine on Symbian, OS X, & Linux platform by Mono Project. A developer can very well make a application in .net & port it to other platforms using a wrapper.

most of the apps are jar files in symbian os (sis is an exception). Ever wonder why Games are easy to port to symnian OS, i have played POP series, NFS series and what say all were jar files.

I don't know much about programming but so far all those friends I have asked....AVA apps are hard to create then .net apps.

yeah cuz everyone needs readymade things, give a noob MSDN and he will make titanic

JAVA apps are hard to create then .net apps.

Nope, when u hav IDE for it as u hav Visual Studio for .NET apps.
Only change is that Visual Studio is not free (yeah u may say student editon or express edition is free),
Eclipse and Netbeans are free to use(no enterprise or other different versions).
Ever heard JSF (Java Server Faces), total drag drop and much advanced than anything.

Hack, even I was able to make a WMP based audio player in VS 2008 here in my home with Expression Blend based UI in 2 hrs, it's another thing that I forgot to add a close button in it & I had to use task manager to end taks it (sorry, programming noob here )

lol..even i can make media player with MMC controls and common dialog box, but thats nothing different from the breed.

try to customize it then u will know.

 

[a_k_s_h_a_y]

Apps written for Windows in C/C++ don't Run in Linux
!!
Windows API and LINUX API are Different ! we will need to change CODE

Yes the Simple Calculator program Written in C runs in both windows and linux .. but not programs that make use of WIN API !!

 

[Zeeshan Quireshi]

Ever heard JSF (Java Server Faces), total drag drop and much advanced than anything.

I suppose i won't be wrong in saying that Windows Presentation Foundation(WPF, .NET 3.0) is much better than JSF .

 

[MetalheadGautham]

@saurav

1. about major os

only in homes is windows THE major os
u got solaris, freeBSD, linuxes, etc widely used in industries.
banking, insurance, real estate, other small use companies use them a lot

2. viruses

abhi likh ke du kya? ask anybody

3. money

not the only reason, but still, MONEY IS IMPORTANT FOR LIVING A COMFORTABLE LIFE

PS: I kissed sleeping beauty really well

 

[Faun]

I suppose i won't be wrong in saying that Windows Presentation Foundation(WPF, .NET 3.0) is much better than JSF .

hard to say as still JSF is not much matured neither the WPF.

But its like Sun, IBM, Novell, and Oracle, for instance, are all putting their collective might behind the platform. So its highly unlikely that it will be anything less than best.

I know .NET is pacing up fast, new features are added rapidly.

 

[MetalheadGautham]

you can't deny the fact that most popular *nixes are rock solid. and add to that the fact that they are gaining fast paced acceptance. this itself attracts many programers. Take this forum for instance. we have several linux users/programmers here. If we go to companies with linux programming in our resume, and they see many like us, linux would definitely gain industry acceptance. As I said, linux is currently a teen enthusiast OS in India. In 10 years, these teens will be in their 20s, the job seeking time. Thats how something gets adopted.

OLPC is another major factor. With many in backward nations using OLPC and Linux, they will learn linux programming. thats why when they grow up and some of them become enterpruners, linux will obviously gain preference. Only US, UK, etc will be left back. then again, they are only a fraction of the world population

 

[rocket357]

neither they have the Same speed

Java isn't a slow language...it has that reputation because quite a few people aren't using it properly. Take this code for instance:

String myString = 'The value of myVar is ' + myVar; // using apostrophes because of this silly editor =\

Looks harmless, right? Well, if myString was being set to a long, repetitive concatenation of String variables with '+', of course it's going to be slow...each concatenation creates a new String object on the heap! The better approach is to use StringBuilder, but most schools worldwide teach the '+' operator method.

I took the liberty of writing a few programs...all use the same algorithm for calculating the first 32768 prime numbers. Here are the results (The first date output is the start time of the algorithm (after init of program variables, etc...) and the second date output is immediately after the algorithm finishes):

Java (Sun Java 1.6.0 JVM) 
jon@JonGentoo ~ $ java Main 
Total primes being calculated: 32768 
Thu Dec 06 00:58:30 CST 2007 
Thu Dec 06 00:58:40 CST 2007

10 Seconds...not too shabby

Java (GCJ-4.2.2) 
jon@JonGentoo ~ $ ./calcPrimeJava 
Total primes being calculated: 32768 
Thu Dec 06 01:54:28 EST 2007 
Thu Dec 06 01:54:34 EST 2007

6 seconds? Better...much better

C++ (G++-4.2.2) (Code ignores TimeZone information)
jon@JonGentoo ~ $ ./calcPrimeCPP
Total primes being calculated: 32768
Thu Dec 06 02:06:13 EST 2007
Thu Dec 06 02:06:19 EST 2007

6 seconds? WTF? This is *native* code!

The moral of the story is this: When coding in a language, you must *know* that language to make the best use of it. Any jerk coding in C can write a reasonably fast program, but as you start introducing concepts like OOP, late binding, dynamic typing, etc... it's even more critical to know the in's and out's of the language. I know Java programmers who swear C# is slow, but that's because they have coded C# to a *Java* spec (there are some things that run faster when coded a certain way in C#, and there are things that run faster when coded a certain way in Java(StringBuilder, for instance)). But to make a blanket statement that 'Java is slow' only serves to reveal the lack of Java knowledge and skill of the coder making the statement.

& most important they don't have the OS like native look & feel.

// More Java code...woohoo! 
// Get the native look and feel class name
String nativeLF = UIManager.getSystemLookAndFeelClassName();

UIManager.setLookAndFeel(nativeLF);

What's so terribly difficult about that? Just curious...

 

[sakumar79]

I agree with rocket357 about java... Java code can be quite fast depending on the coder... Also, there is code facility for using OS based UI instead of the standard Java UI... Though many programmers choose to use the default UI simply because they neglect thought about it...

A couple of years back, I wrote a slightly complicated (for a single programmer) program... First in VB.NET, and then in Java... Java was faster... Of course, VB.NET is not really a good benchmark when it comes to speed, but it was a good benchmark for ease of coding... I used Sun ONE Studio IDE and the coding ease was more or less equal...

Arun