Developers cooling on Windows desktop, study finds

[praka123]

@gx_saurav:How can u say that in Indian context Do u believe all those windows and VS users here in India purchased and uses this
Windows Platform/Microsoft software are famous more due to piracy-right?
I dont think even a meagre 15% buys license for window$
As with Linux-if u followed the development of GUI and user-friendliness with Linux distros-u can understand that from 2002 onwards atleast Linux is easy for novice user caveat he must not look for Window$ features.
Today's Linux distros are definitely ready for Desktop users and better than Vista too(personal opin here hehe).
but the problem is we are not dealing with a company for after sales(customer -client)
I said Open SOurce is different?Did u ever listened?
U r mind locked(i know the reason too)
U r adamant and expecting the same customer-client relationship that Windows OS is based on.here in open source there are no 30-day time bomb,err trial-wares.neither we(OSS users) are getting stagnant waiting for cracks from warez/crackers(many window$ users does! )
we enjoy the freedom and many more Indians now understands Linux(ubuntu?fedora? ) is better and free.while M$ aggressively market with sites like MW/MOffice which sure gonna bomb gee!

 

[sakumar79]

@praka123, GPL is a wonderful license agreement... However, if someone was to argue that every code should be made open source compulsorily, I would disagree... It would deprive the developper right to choose. EULA is a pain in many cases (especially if you look at EULAs of big corporations such as MS), but it protects the right of the developper the way he wants it to be protected... If the developpers choice to code in closed-source is taken away, IMHO the quality of coding will decline over the years... After all, this is a capitalistic world, and one cannot argue the fact that in their current form, closed-source software is a better revenue maker than open source software and without the same monetary incentives, many people will choose an alternative career instead of developping software.

Linux has gained leaps and bounds over the past few years... I think about 10 years ago it started gaining momentum as a desktop alternative, but at that time, it was very difficult to use (driver issues, limited software, etc)... But in the last few years, it has gained leaps and bounds... I havent used it for the last 2 or 3 years, so I might be wrong, but I think the main drawback now for Linux at this current stage are only two things - 1. while it is almost as user friendly as Windows in general use, some troubleshooting and hardware/software installation requires a bit of geeky knowledge, and 2. It still doesnt have the range of software available that Windows does... This is especially true in business-specific tasks (engineering, medicine, etc). In the home side, we do have a reasonable variety of software in Linux, but we are yet to get good software for business-specific tasks... I feel that it will probably take a few years (perhaps a decade or so) for sufficient awareness to mature into viable products...

@mediator

But u r posts are giving a full fledged show of ur fanboyism. Yea MS is on the right side by spreading FUDs!! We all know that!

Heres where you insinuate that I said that MS is on the right side by spreading FUDs...

BTW, 'Fair' is an unfair term to be used when we r dealing with a business minded and monopolistic company!!

This is your reply when I asked you to be fair. Fair means impartial, in case you did not know, but I have learnt from your replies so far in this thread that it is not possible in this case for you.

@Arun : and u say u have read the emails? Do u even feel any shame while lying?

Why dont you read the mails impartially. Oh wait, thats an impossible task. He was interested in getting the MVP status back, and to solve the dispute, so he was willing to remove the Express Edition support that he felt was legally okay? He was contradicting himself all over... May be he was confused, I dont know... I am just pointing it out...

Most of your other points are just whines, rants and insults, which I dont plan to reply to.

Arun

 

[praka123]

^thats what am saying-GPL is NOT for YOU,if u are not a OSS user and supporter.thats it.GPL(3) esp is to protect the rights of both users and programmers of FOSS community(heard about Tivo,bitdefender etc for GPL violations).although GNUWIN etc exists,it is not very much valid in a windows os context.So select GPL,if ur rational and sync with OSS ideologies(which even big companies are doing now for eg:IBM).
at any point nobody can justify a EULA-because EULA is a protector for a private property(even leaseman rights? does not exists ) of Proprietory softwares which obviously can not compete with a Open License Like GPL.
EULA's Language itself is threatening.
It is OK,that ur using Vstudio for years and thinks it gives nirvana.perfectly OK.but dont justify EULA.it is venom.
As reg Linux does not have softwares for business uses,i pity ?!
Just Open Debian or Ubuntu apt list to see what Linux offer.infact now Linux grown much beyond many hard core windows users expect!.I suggest you get Ubuntu-hook on!

 

[gxsaurav]

from 2002 onwards atleast Linux is easy for novice user caveat he must not look for Window$ features.

Yup, in 2007 he must not look to play HD Content, he must not look to record TV or DVR, he must not look to play games, he must not look to Confrence on his corporate network, then Linux is good for him

Today's Linux distros are definitely ready for Desktop users and better than Vista too(personal opin here hehe).

The day Linux distributions agree upon common drivers & package management system, Linux will start gaining acceptance in desktop market.

Linux(ubuntu?fedora? ) is better and free.while M$ aggressively market with sites like MW/MOffice which sure gonna bomb gee!

While Linux does that, We Windows users are already.......ah! forget it

 

[praka123]

SO @gxsourav expects Linux never plays HD;eh? yeah,somebody predicted Linux never play DVD too haha!(with libdvdcss it plays irrespective of region locked ones too).so dont bring that here!
there is something which grows with maturity-Respect for Freedom.never Lock urself within Windows,open it .dont be like the saaz/bahu on that serials u may be watching always trying Linux to post some fake faults hmm

 

[mediator]

mediator cannot be told what reality is. Just like Eddie, they both don't want to understand & accept the facts. You have your own opinion & u think it is the best which u don't want to change.

Sorry, no matter how much we try to polish a Turd, it will still remain a turd.

You cannot even debate here properly. So u decided trolling wud be the best way? Learn not to take the names of other members. Damn ur musketeer friend even put it in his siggy. How respectful!!
Thanx for the personal comments neways.

Yeah, & we tried in the last 5 pages to tell you why it is not bad but still you do not understand. Prakash, I really doubt the understanding capability of you, mediator & eddie now in this forum.

Is that how u refresh ur MVP status year and year again? By showing ur fanboyism? Do the MS people spy on their MVPs too if they r spreading FUds in favour of MS or not? I told u to quote the alphabet, but u cudn't even do that! Understanding.....man u r sarcastic!!

However, if someone was to argue that every code should be made open source compulsorily, I would disagree... It would deprive the developper right to choose

Ofcors not, u can write hello world programs under VS-EULA

Heres where you insinuate that I said that MS is on the right side by spreading FUDs...

Man now u r down to defend urself instead of MS? Where did I say that u said 'MS is ont right side by spreading FUDs' ?
It was just general way of telling where MS has been wrong where u asked for more cases where MS has been wrong! It doesn't even know how to treat its little MVPs and here we see some MVPs having fervent blind faith in it like a religion!!

Who said I am defending all of MS's actions? All I said was that in this particular case, it appears that MS is on the right side... How on earth do you equate that to fanboyism? Well, may be calling you a Linux fanboy may not be right, but I guess "MS basher" would be more appropriate...

BTW, 'Fair' is an unfair term to be used when we r dealing with a business minded and monopolistic company!!

This is your reply when I asked you to be fair. Fair means impartial, in case you did not know, but I have learnt from your replies so far in this thread that it is not possible in this case for you.

U r so predictable! Read the whole again carefully, read what company we r discussing for. And u think we shud use "fair" when discussing "monopolistic" and "business minded" MS. Do u even understand what the phrase "dealing with" means? Now shud I make u understand the english from the start may be by analogies again?
When the heck I said I want to be unfair in a debate "with u"? I guess u were being unfair to be requesting to talk about other companies when the debate centered around MS-VS-EULA.
So instead of telling me what to do, u shud do some meditation to understand how YOU can learn!!

Why dont you read the mails impartially. Oh wait, thats an impossible task. He was interested in getting the MVP status back, and to solve the dispute, so he was willing to remove the Express Edition support that he felt was legally okay? He was contradicting himself all over... May be he was confused, I dont know... I am just pointing it out...

Why don't u show me if I was "impartial"?
May be u r confused, may be u r not sure, may be ur concepts aren't clear yet like u confessed before! U know nuthing!

Hi Jason,

Thank you for spelling out Microsoft's position so clearly. I find
this directness constructive and feel that we're moving forwards. In
this same spirit I would like to lay out my position:

1.) All of the interfaces and methods I used to extend the Express SKU
are public and documented on the MSDN website.

2.) I have sought legal advice on the Express SKU EULA and as far as
my lawyer is aware I am not in breach of the licence.

In our second teleconference Ben Miller told me this issue would not
impact my MVP status or prospects for renewal (baring Microsoft taking legal action). I feel a constructive way forward would be if Microsoft were to make a gesture of good faith by renewing my MVP award for this season. I would then be happy to remove Express SKU integration from my website and engage with Microsoft through the VSIP program as you have suggested.

To be clear I am not asking to be made a VSIP MVP as compensation for
discontinuing my Express SKU extensions. I am simply asking not to be
punished over an issue that everyone would like to move away from.
Assuming we can agree upon this as an amicable way forward, I will
publish the following installer on my website:
*www.mutantdesign.co.uk/downlo...1586_Basic.zip

Regards, Jamie.

May u wud like to read the part of the post u missed totally! REAd with ur eyes wide open or atleast the bolded part, u liar!!

Most of your other points are just whines, rants and insults, which I dont plan to reply to.

U need a glass juice now! U can't even reply properly and whining that others are like u now?? Please reply! This is the 4th time now...to...

Does the bolded part even make any sense to u? May be ur concepts aren't still clear! Did u even read the MS side of story?
And please tell where the VS Pro-EULA states that YOU CAN avail it for professional one? Most of the times it is telling what u can't do, so please tell where it tells what u can do with extension conforming with ur statement! Since u think the source code can me made open source with VS-EULA freely as we r discussing, then please show where the MS-PRO-EULA allows open source code of extensions to be publicly available?

Also please tell where the MVP called his creation a "hack" just like that!!

Lying that MVP 'bargained' etc, whining to use c++, java. Don't u feel any shame?.....WTH.....I feel too demoralised to be even debating with u now!

 

[rakeshishere]

Technology News has turned down to Fight Club Topic

*img530.imageshack.us/img530/9069/stfu7qjaf8.gif

 

[Zeeshan Quireshi]

@Praka , OSS and Windows can coexist but i don't think OSS can totally take over(in the near 5 years) .

i use KUbuntu for LAMP development and python development(both using eclipse) .

i Use Visual Studio do to Application development and as .Net 2.0 is supported by mono , my apps run both on Windows and *NIX without a hitch and .NET programming is much easier than Qt

Also , firefox , thunderbird and many popular OSS software are available for windows too and With Microsof't Codeplex and port25 , they too are supporting OSS software is developers want to do do

i suggest you take a look at the vast amount of Open Source(u can download code , edit it , compile it) Applications and Libraries avilable on Codeplex

 

[sakumar79]

^thats what am saying-GPL is NOT for YOU,if u are not a OSS user and supporter.thats it.GPL(3) esp is to protect the rights of both users and programmers of FOSS community(heard about Tivo,bitdefender etc for GPL violations).although GNUWIN etc exists,it is not very much valid in a windows os context.So select GPL,if ur rational and sync with OSS ideologies(which even big companies are doing now for eg:IBM).
at any point nobody can justify a EULA-because EULA is a protector for a private property(even leaseman rights? does not exists ) of Proprietory softwares which obviously can not compete with a Open License Like GPL.
EULA's Language itself is threatening.
It is OK,that ur using Vstudio for years and thinks it gives nirvana.perfectly OK.but dont justify EULA.it is venom.

Actually, I am only a casual programmer, and most of my programs currently are in Java (I rarely only use VB, and I do occasional small non-GUI programs in C++)... I am currently programming only for use at my office, but if at a later stage, I get to release it, I will probably go the open source way (personal choice)... However, I do know quite a few friends and relatives who are work as programmers who still prefer closed sourcing their code.

However, I have to disagree on your opinions of the EULA (it is my personal opinion that EULAs are necessary in closed source software)... And while I would like to justify my standpoint, I dont want this to turn into another fight (already had one in this thread, which I quit because my opponent refused to acknowledge any of the points I made)... But just so we are clear, are you talking about EULAs in general or MS EULA specifically?

As reg Linux does not have softwares for business uses,i pity ?!
Just Open Debian or Ubuntu apt list to see what Linux offer.infact now Linux grown much beyond many hard core windows users expect!.I suggest you get Ubuntu-hook on!

I am not saying Linux doesnt have any software - just that it is limited...And in many cases, functionality is under development... Let me explain with my personal example...
I am a structural design engineer. In my office, we work with two main software components - analysis/design, and drafting (there is also managerial work, but I will leave that out for now)... Analysis and design is done using spreadsheets and software like ETABS, STAAD, SCADDS, STRUDS etc. Drafting is done with CAD software (though most popular is AutoCAD, we use a less powerful lesser known software because AutoCAD is too costly to purchase). Spreadsheets - we use OpenOffice.org and Lotus 123 (MS Office is too costly. Mostly I prefer OOo, but it loads very slowly on older systems). There is no problem porting to Linux here... For CAD software, there are a handful of free, open source software... Unfortunately, most of them were in development stage last time I checked (that was about six months ago, so if you have more info, I would be glad to know). Also, many of them have limited functionality... One of the important features I want is scripting, which is not available in the various options I tried out... Slowly though, this department is developping and I am excited to try out alternatives in the near future. Finally, regarding the analysis/design software - there are very few analysis software that offer the power that Windows equivalents give... And there are even fewer design software in Linux that cater to Indian Standards Codes...
In addition, I have had requests from my friends to look at freeware alternatives to Electrical Engineering Circuit drawing software (or something like that, I think it was called Simulink), and some medical related tool (though this was about 3 years ago). Despite searching, I was unable to come up with an alternative for them...
So, what I am trying to say is that in these markets, it is a bit hard for Linux to make inroads until reasonable development is made... But the awareness has begun, and there are encouraging signs for progress...

Arun

 

[mediator]

already had one in this thread, which I quit because my opponent refused to acknowledge any of the points I made

After all such debate u have only to say that?
Seems to me like u r whispering to others! Please don't be sarcastic! I really wanted to have a nice discussion but not partial and m still in a mood, but have to confess that am quite demoralised coz u started lying!!

First u didn't even quote me properly so as to save me from repeating! 2nd, U still didn't even tell where it is written in EULA that I asked 4 times! 3rd, lying that MVP bargained and conduct wasn't appropriate?, 4th didn't even tell what what u understood by the EULA, the alphabet that I asked u, 5th meaning of incorrect link in EULA etc etc!

So instead of lying, whining to use c++,java, preaching etc u cud have simply fulfilled my request to quote and reply from the start!

Thats not how a discussion is done by jumping in between not reading the source,EULA,GPL,stories from both sides, previous posts and not knowing what discussion was going on in between. You only make a joke of urself then!!

 

[sakumar79]

I thought I explained to you in layman terms how the EULA was violated, but since you want to know the details from the EULA, look under LL of your original post *www.thinkdigit.com/forum/showpost.php?p=546391&postcount=51 and see one of the parts you have highlighted "You may not
• work around any technical limitations in the software;"
Not having extension capability was a technical limitation of the software imposed on the Express Edition, and giving it the same violated it...

Also, please learn to differentiate opinion and fact. Bargain implies an agreement between parties fixing obligations of each. Whatever the justification, he was bargaining. Thats a fact. Whether his justification of the bargain is reasonable is subject to ones opinion. Your opinion differs from mine.

Arun

 

[mediator]

I thought I explained to you in layman terms how the EULA was violated, but since you want to know the details from the EULA, look under LL of your original post *www.thinkdigit.com/forum/show...1&postcount=51 and see one of the parts you have highlighted u may not
• work around any technical limitations in the software;"
Not having extension capability was a technical limitation of the software imposed on the Express Edition, giving it the same violated it...

U still don't get it do u? That 'under LL' is an excerpt from "PROFESSIONAL" not express edition and that professional one was what Zeeshan and I were discussing before u came and started whining about express!!

And I told all the time during the debate how that was a severe restriction as a part of PROFESSIONAL edition!!

To make it clear for u in ofcors 'layman' terms Post #26 was where Zeeshan showed me the VS-professionl EULA which I formatted into alphabet for u guys only which u r quoting right now which u THOUGHT is EXPRESS edition since u trolled from in between and not adhering to my request to read from start and quote whats relevant and then continously making a joke of urself again n again!!

Also, please learn to differentiate opinion and fact. Bargain implies an agreement between parties fixing obligations of each. Whatever the justification, he was bargaining. Thats a fact. Whether his justification of the bargain is reasonable is subject to ones opinion. Your opinion differs from mine.

Still saying 'wateva the justification' when I showed u all the relevant conversations?? Are u mocking ur reading abilities? So m still telling u read with ur eyes on steroids stuck into the monitor!!

Hi Jason,

Thank you for spelling out Microsoft's position so clearly. I find
this directness constructive and feel that we're moving forwards. In
this same spirit I would like to lay out my position:

1.) All of the interfaces and methods I used to extend the Express SKU
are public and documented on the MSDN website.

2.) I have sought legal advice on the Express SKU EULA and as far as
my lawyer is aware I am not in breach of the licence.

In our second teleconference Ben Miller told me this issue would not
impact my MVP status or prospects for renewal (baring Microsoft taking legal action). I feel a constructive way forward would be if Microsoft were to make a gesture of good faith by renewing my MVP award for this season. I would then be happy to remove Express SKU integration from my website and engage with Microsoft through the VSIP program as you have suggested.

To be clear I am not asking to be made a VSIP MVP as compensation for
discontinuing my Express SKU extensions. I am simply asking not to be
punished over an issue that everyone would like to move away from.
Assuming we can agree upon this as an amicable way forward, I will
publish the following installer on my website:
*www.mutantdesign.co.uk/downlo...1586_Basic.zip

Regards, Jamie.

1. His lawyer was aware that he WASN'T in any breach of the license!
2. The "bargain" as u like to call it so dearly, that u "think" was his idea was suggested by someone else! Read in this excerpt only to who he was addressing.
3. He addressed his intentions clearly like any serious developer who was willing to develop endlessly!

IF u still THINK of calling it "WHATEVER BARGAIN", then read this excerpt slowly and carefully, letter by letter!

And lastly that is not my "opinion" as gladly and ignorantly as u said. And then u say, "I didn't reply to ANY of ur points"???? Man have some self-respect! Lying will get u no where!! Wanna have some nice debate? Then show some debate ethics urself!!

 

[Garbage]

@Prakash & @Mediator,

I was gone for OSS conference for 4-5 days. When I come back & read the whole story, the only conclusion I can draw is here are "some" M$ fanboys who think that they are very much FREE using EULA.

They really don't know, what the FREEDOM is & don't even WANT to know !!

Lets keep silence for 2 min. for their dead wishes of FREEDOM !!

 

[gxsaurav]

:yawn:

 

[sakumar79]

@mediator,
1. The same clause exists in Express Edition EULA also...

2. "His lawyer was aware that he WASN'T in any breach of the license!" is incorrect... "as far as my lawyer is aware I am not in breach of the licence." implies that his lawyer was not aware of where he was in any breach of the licence... I hope you can appreciate the difference between the two.

3. The "bargain" was not suggested by someone else. If you read carefully (not just this mail, also look at earlier mails where it was already covered), you will understand that what was suggested was the part about removing Express Edition integration and working with MS under VSIP program. He was bargaining that MS give him back MVP status as a sign of good faith and he would agree to the earlier suggestions...

Arun

 

[mediator]

1. The same clause exists in Express Edition EULA also..

Hehe, So? May be the whole EULA is made to confuse the readers/developers where EULA of Express is almost the same as EULA of professional, as u say some clause is, so that MS can confuse the prey by giving the incorrect links first and then people like u saying its there in express one too. Did u really read atleast the bolded parts of my post or did u forgot what u were saying?
We were discussing for 'freedom under professional EULA' where someone here told me that u might have restriction under express EULA but u can do it under professional one!!

2. "His lawyer was aware that he WASN'T in any breach of the license!" is incorrect... "as far as my lawyer is aware I am not in breach of the licence." implies that his lawyer was not aware of where he was in any breach of the licence... I hope you can appreciate the difference between the two.

If u r trying to say that the difference is of the phrase "as far as to his knowledge", then u must really be joking!! The EULA itself points to incorrect links and doesn't specifies what "technical limitations correctly and in a clear and straight forward manner". He himself asked a zillion times about the specifications and what license terms he was violating without any straight answer! May be u can tell correctly where in EULA it is wriiten in a straight forward manner what he violated!

To refresh u again here what it says!

c. Additional Functionality. Microsoft may provide additional functionality for the software. Other license terms and fees may apply.

Can u tell where it is written that the "developer" MAY not provide additional functionality and its the MS and ONLY MS which is destined to do so? Do u even understand the meaning of this statement in bold? Asked about what license terms he was violating, he was continously and absurdly replied with "YOu r violating the license terms"! Heck, what license terms???? before he got a gang bang from MS?????? You can see that he even consulted his lawyer who cudn't find any violations yes ofcors to his knowledge. I pity the lawyer who must have seen and read all the correct and incorrect links in the EULA to be miserably and finally approving him to "His knowledge" or "as far he knows". Do u think lawyers in US or outside INDIA, where law is at its best and people fine u for even urinating on the road, i.e developed nations are that casual that you are telling about the difference???? Sorry I dunno the state of lawyers in INDIA becoz of high corruption!! Any lawyer wud be scared to say "Yes, I am 100% sure" when dealing with MS!!

U can very well see the restrictions in professional one too then!! If the EULA can be so casually written for telling what "not to do" most of the time and then not even specifying to the point and expects other to understand by intuition then I'm sorry to say that any body wud be scared to write even a hello world program under it if he/she has read the EULA and resides in US!!

3. The "bargain" was not suggested by someone else. If you read carefully (not just this mail, also look at earlier mails where it was already covered), you will understand that what was suggested was the part about removing Express Edition integration and working with MS under VSIP program. He was bargaining that MS give him back MVP status as a sign of good faith and he would agree to the earlier suggestions...

May be u cud show me 'where'? Do u really think he just wrote "as u have suggested" in reply to jason and his intentions, just to show off his mails to the public? And u say u r not an MS-fanboy!!

And since u wud be telling me "where" for this, then please do tell "where" i.e the thing I have been asking u for more than 5 times now that u seem so shy to throw some ligth at!!

Man if u r finding it so hard to end the discussion from ur side becoz of some ego problem and making a continous joke of urself......then please!! I'm not getting entertained now in neway!! The topic was about freedom and debate matured to professional edition. But u on the other hand, seem to be so adamant to be sticking only to express edition. I'll be glad to stop here! Rest is upto u. If u wanna continue then no probss!

 

[sakumar79]

1. The term "technical limitations" is meant to be generic allowing MS to use the same term for any license...

2. With your attitude that you may not even safely use Visual Studio to write helloworld programs, I have no interest in explaining what freedom VS Pro Edition gives, and what limitations are there... You are going to stick to your convictions no matter what I say. I am sure other readers can draw their own conclusions, whatever they may be...

BTW, he did get once info on what licenses were violated, but he asked for clarification which he did not receive... Refer Jan 23 2006 mail at *www.mutantdesign.co.uk/downloads/ExpressEmails1.html for details... In the absense of any other communication details in this regard (phone calls, conference meetings), it sure looks like MS never gave him a clear answer...

3. Please show me where you find that MS suggested that if he withdrew the Extension, they would give back the MVP status. His statement was

I feel a constructive way forward would be if Microsoft
were to make a gesture of good faith by renewing my MVP award for this
season. I would then be happy to remove Express SKU integration from
my website and engage with Microsoft through the VSIP program as you
have suggested.

You are reading the full quote as the suggestion, I am reading the bolded part as the suggestion... The way the sentences are structured, my interpretation makes sense to me, but it could have meant otherwise...

Arun

 

[praka123]

why do we bow to EULA when we can get freedom without pay?hey!think.
I think Qt4 toolkit from trolltech will be liked by ppl like you.they offer free toolkit if u release the code as GPL,for proprietory efforts,u need to pay trolltech.it even helps u free from the lock of MSFT and Windows to make cross platform softwares.
*trolltech.com/products/qt/indepth/vs-integration

 

[mediator]

1. The term "technical limitations" is meant to be generic allowing MS to use the same term for any license...

I see!

2. With your attitude that you may not even safely use Visual Studio to write helloworld programs, I have no interest in explaining what freedom VS Pro Edition gives, and what limitations are there... You are going to stick to your convictions no matter what I say. I am sure other readers can draw their own conclusions, whatever they may be...

Now thats sumthin amusing. You have been whining about "Express Edition" all along and u say u discussed about professional? I have been asking u to show me "where" for several things in different posts of mine, telling u to please speak to professional one and u say u explained?
U can't even quote and reply properly and know only how to troll and whine and beg others to use Java and c++ instead!

Do u even understand the difference between express and professional?

BTW, he did get once info on what licenses were violated, but he asked for clarification which he did not receive... Refer Jan 23 2006 mail at *www.mutantdesign.co.uk/downlo...ssEmails1.html for details... In the absense of any other communication details in this regard (phone calls, conference meetings), it sure looks like MS never gave him a clear answer...

So u finally started reading? But still u failed!! The point is what 'license terms' and specifications he violated!!

Jason,

In our last conference call you mentioned numerous ways in which [size=+4]you
believed[/size] I was in breach of the Visual Studio SDK licence agreement.
[size=+2]You also said[/size] that adding buttons to the Express SKU [size=+2]may be a breach
of Microsoft's copyright.[/size]

The code you believe violates the Visual Studio SDK licence agreement
is present in all versions of TestDriven.NET (but is only actually
invoked when executing inside a Visual Studio 2005 Team Edition). It
is therefore the case that removing support for the Express SKU
wouldn't remedy the licence situation. Even if Microsoft chose not to
pursue this perceived licence breach, it would still leave any future
versions of TestDriven.NET in a vulnerable position.

I have therefore decided to remove all references to Visual Studio SDK
assemblies. I find this situation regrettable as it does limit
integration possibilities. I'm planning to discuss the issues raised
and find out how other add-in developers interface with the Visual
Studio SDK. I have seen many blog entries that seem to encourage
add-in developers to circumvent the PLK mechanism (assuming that is
what casting the DTE object to IServiceProvider does).

As far as copyright is concerned, I still fail to understand - despite
having researched the subject - how extending an application could be
construed as a violation. I would appreciate if you could clarify
further this issue.

Regards,
Jamie.

[I never received a reply to this email]

U surely didn't read the mail that I showed u where Jason confesses that he is just a developer and doesn't have much knowledge of license terms did u??

3. Please show me where you find that MS suggested that if he withdrew the Extension, they would give back the MVP status. His statement was

I feel a constructive way forward would be if Microsoft
were to make a gesture of good faith by renewing my MVP award for this
season. I would then be happy to remove Express SKU integration from
my website and engage with Microsoft through the VSIP program [SIZE=+4]as you
have suggested.[/SIZE]

Are u missing the last three words on purpose or they taking a toll on ur mind?? You like to believe the story of the side of a monopolistic, business minded, FUD spreading company but u don't like to believe an MVP? U think that MVP who cud have got a job in MS and have good salary wud just do it on purpose? You like to believe the words of Jason, but not Jamie? You think he typed those 3 words becoz he had vision of future?? Please man.....have mercy on urself

You are reading the full quote as the suggestion, I am reading the bolded part as the suggestion... The way the sentences are structured, my interpretation makes sense to me, but it could have meant otherwise...

The way u have wrote this part of ur post is also laughable! The half quoted part makes sense to u? Missing the last three words makes weight of MS side of story heavier and filling those 3 words makes it completely opposite and in favour of MVP where the MVP cleared his intention in the most understandable form!!

To be clear I am not asking to be made a VSIP MVP as compensation for
discontinuing my Express SKU extensions. I am simply asking not to be
punished over an issue that everyone would like to move away from.
Assuming we can agree upon this as an amicable way forward, I will
publish the following installer on my website:

So, if this is what u think sense and rational thinking is or have imagined to be in ur dreams, then I surrender!!

U can now very well play with ur musketeer friends and ur priest and make mockery of the term 'sense' and 'rational approach'.....Yea baby, elephant flies...isn't it?? I feel embarassed now to be even debating with u!!

There is chit chat section where u have been increasing ur "post count' from the 'date' u showed me. Post ur jokes and baby talks there!!

 

[sakumar79]

Dude, please gain a decent knowledge of English before you start hurling accusations... This is the third or fourth time you are accusing or insulting me because of your lack of depth of English... The phrase "I have no interest in explaining..." does not imply that I have already explained or not. Besides, even after being aware of the meaning of "technical limitations", you still whine that you are scared to even code helloworld programs in Visual Studio... Are you seriously expecting me to believe you are talking about programming with VS rationally?

Ive explained my opinion, youve explained your opinion (both on the matter, as well as on my opinion)... I am not going to justify my opinion...

By the way, I am sure you know that posts in chit chat section dont add to your post count...

Arun