Camera talk...

[Gen.Libeb]

ok I will attempt once more will avoid complicated terms

what you see is 50mm that is when you take a shot at 50mm it will look almost like what you see with your eyes...if you want to magnify a thing then you have to increase the focal length ...soo if you take a shot at 150mm the subject is theoritically magnified 3 times or 3x

but below 50mm wider area is captured. soo if you shoot from 18mm to 50mm then you capture wider then your eye can see but nothing is magnified...

there is no term as x zoom in DSLR world...just for understanding we call it like that...if sony HX300 have 24-1200 and call it 50x then to compare to it if I have 10-500 mm range of lens I too will have 50x zoom but actually 10-50mm is not magnification

what we call zoom lens in dslr world is something having variable or changeable focal length ...its not related to magnification...a 10-20mm lens is also a zoom lens
other is fixed focal length or prime lens like 50mm

Thanks for the explanation.

50mm on all cameras( Point and shoot, DSLR (1100D or Fullframe) will not give the same view. will it ? apply the crop factor may be.

 

[sujoyp]

when we say 50mm its considered that we are talking about full frame...the standard lens system which was used in the time of Rolls.

in our D3100 or 1100D we have to actually divide it by crop factor to get the desired focal length ...

canon have 1.6x crop and nikon 1.5x crop , m4/3 have 2x crop factor.

if u want to know how much focal length you need to get 50mm field of view then 50/1.5 = 33.33 mm for nikon and 31mm for canon

remember that lens focal length is always given in standard focal length irrespective of lens is for crop sensor of full frame lens.

if its said that this lens is 18-55mm then it is actually 18-55mm but with crop factor of nikon will work like a 24-70mm

 

[raja manuel]

Just to be clear, a 50mm focal length is always 50mm focal length. When you use a smaller sensor, it 'sees' a smaller portion of the image thrown by the lens (because, well, it is smaller). Effectively, the image is cropped (that is why the reference to crop sensor and crop factor) and therefore looks like it is zoomed in but no optical magnification takes place. Ceteris paribus, if the full frame sensor had the same pixel density as the smaller sensor you could just crop the image from the full frame sensor to get the equivalent image (resolution and field of view) from the crop sensor.

Of course, full frame sensors do not usually (ever?) have the same pixel density as the crop sensors; they typically feature lower pixel densities, making this an apples-to-oranges comparison.

 

[sujoyp]

totally agree with you raja

 

[quagmire]

Thanks for the explaination Raja Manuel and sujoyp..

Of course, full frame sensors do not usually (ever?) have the same pixel density as the crop sensors; they typically feature lower pixel densities, making this an apples-to-oranges comparison.

Didn't understand this part. So youre saying after taking the image in a full frame sensor, if I manually crop up to the size I get with a crop sensor, it will be of lower detail?

Also the only big advantage of using full frame is to utilize the entire light field from the lens?
I remember a discussion in this thread a few pages above, about bokeh in full frame being much better than smaller sensors with the same lens.

 

[Gen.Libeb]

I remember a discussion in this thread a few pages above, about bokeh in full frame being much better than smaller sensors with the same lens.

Will same lens fit on small sensor & full frame ?

 

[nac]

New announcement from Sony, large sensor zoom compact

Will same lens fit on small sensor & full frame ?

Yes, both the Nikon FX and DX lenses can be fit it both the FF and APSC body.

 

[sujoyp]

Will same lens fit on small sensor & full frame ?

yes same lens will fit crop sensor and full frame but crop sensor lens DX as we call it will vignette on full frame sensor. Its not made for it..but full frame lens FX will work fine on cropped sensor cam

@nac just read about that Sony RX10 ...its quit good...but cost 1200$

 

[nac]

^ When I first saw it, I thought it would be like Fuji XS1, but after reading I learned that it's a mixture of G1x and FZ200. Large sensor, constant aperture, bridge form factor. There are lot of features, but I don't know why Sony is not opting for OVF.

 

[sujoyp]

OVF needs mirror and its not a mirrorless or SLT but just another digicam with bigger sensor and constant aperture

 

[raja manuel]

Didn't understand this part. So youre saying after taking the image in a full frame sensor, if I manually crop up to the size I get with a crop sensor, it will be of lower detail?

Yes, and no. As I said, ceteris paribus which is never the case in real world applications. The greater pixel density of the crop sensor (and the fact that they are meant to be cheaper) often results in several compromises, detail being one of them. I haven't ever heard of full frame owners complaining of a lack of detail in their cameras compared to crops of the same generation. Quite the opposite, in fact. It is usually crop sensor guys who brag about getting greater zoom with their crop bodies without a clue of what they are talking about.

Also the only big advantage of using full frame is to utilize the entire light field from the lens?

As far as I know, yes. It is like ETTR without you having to ETTR. Derived benefits include better pixel pitch and greater field of view at the wide angle end.
Also, I am not sure if we should use light field in this context, as we have cameras like Lytro that do use the entire light field and that is a very different beast.

I remember a discussion in this thread a few pages above, about bokeh in full frame being much better than smaller sensors with the same lens.

Perhaps. I would like to see the actual discussion to see if I can add anything to it. One of my problems with this forum is the way bokeh and depth-of-field are used interchangeably, though they refer to different things.

 

[nac]

Already it is big and heavy, mirror is not gonna occupy lot of space in it. Canon G series, Fuji X series do have OVF.

 

[quagmire]

Perhaps. I would like to see the actual discussion to see if I can add anything to it. One of my problems with this forum is the way bokeh and depth-of-field are used interchangeably, though they refer to different things.

The discussion was here :

Spoiler

Bokeh also depends on the sensor size, larger sensor = better bokeh (for the photograph shot to have the same field of view a Full frame sensor needs a longer focal length, so)

---

Guys what do you think about the new Nikon D5300?
Translated price stands at around 50k for body only..

 

[sujoyp]

Perhaps. I would like to see the actual discussion to see if I can add anything to it. One of my problems with this forum is the way bokeh and depth-of-field are used interchangeably, though they refer to different things.

maybe thats my mistake...I still think bookeh is the background blurring and depth of field is somewhat related to landscape where more things are in focus due to smaller f nos like f8 etc.

 

[izzikio_rage]

A simple way to explain DOF would be to assume that there are two sheets of (super transparent) glass which are parallel to your camera front. Anything between those sheets of glass will get focused while stuff that is progressively further gets more and more blurred.

Changing the aperture changes the depth of feild ie it moves those sheets of glass further apart therefore things over a wider range of depths get properly focused. Changing the focal length moves the two sheets nearer or further from the camera, so you focus on stuff closer to or further away from the cam (as needed).

Due to the way a lens functions, changing the focal length also increases/decreases the separation between the sheets of glass (since aperture is linked to the focal length, remember f/1.8 has f as the focal length). That's why we get better bokehs at longer focal lengths.

Bokeh is basically how beautiful the blur areas appear (whether they are circular, creamy and all that indefinable stuff). It depends on the lens construction, shape of aperture, number of leaves used to adjust aperture and any changes to the opening (like putting a heart shaped card a la what Sujoy did). Can't give a better description than wikipedia Bokeh - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[sujoyp]

still I feel same ...
if there are two glass and the amount of things in focus under it increases or decreases with aperture then tell me if I take a shot of a bird at f8, according to DOF formula what is the blur behind it ...is it bokeh or DOF out of focus

I agree the bird and its leaves came sharp coz they fall under two glass walls of DOF and backgout became OOF coz its behind those walls...but will we call that just defocus /out of focus or bokeh

 

[raja manuel]

The discussion was here :

Ah, that is a reference to DOF, not bokeh. To fill the frame on a larger sensor to the same extent as on a smaller sensor you will have to move closer or use a longer focal length, both of which will give you a shallower DOF at the same aperture.

still I feel same ...
if there are two glass and the amount of things in focus under it increases or decreases with aperture then tell me if I take a shot of a bird at f8, according to DOF formula what is the blur behind it ...is it bokeh or DOF out of focus

I agree the bird and its leaves came sharp coz they fall under two glass walls of DOF and backgout became OOF coz its behind those walls...but will we call that just defocus /out of focus or bokeh

izzikio_rage has already answered the question, but to repeat, the portion that is outside of the glass sheets is blurred because its out of focus. How nicely it is out of focus is bokeh. E.g., on a lens with a 5 blade aperture you can see the pentagon shape in the out of focus region (such as pinpoints of light). An 8 blade aperture lens would give a far more circular appearance, which is considered better bokeh by those who bother about such things.

 

[sujoyp]

ok from this link I undestood What is Bokeh?

background blurring is due to DOF and the quality of blur is bokeh, harsh, creamy, round, hexagonal etc.

 

[Gen.Libeb]

What kind of Camera is this ?
Hasselblad H5D-200MS Medium Format DSLR Camera 3013666 B&H Photo

Any one know which kind of cameras are used to get those 8*8 feet or larger photos ?

 

[sujoyp]

those are hasselblad medium format cams ...very costly ...that one is $42k ...there sensor is bigger then full frame sensor DSLRs ....I have never searched enough about them cost they are wayy out of range