Apple expensive? I don't think so...

[aryayush]

Okay, time for some myth-busting. Hold onto your seatbelts, it is going to be a long and bumpy ride! 'gxsaurav', please do read this post, it just might do you some good and I do not mean that sarcastically.

The best thing about Windows is that, it has a lot of 3rd party developers, a lot of options to choose from which all work perfectly, unlike Mac, where there are only a few application

There are more than four thousand four hundred and twenty free applications available for download for Mac OS X from Apple's official site itself. The paid software and the ones that are not listed on Apple's site, constitute a far higher number. I have been using the Mac for over four months now and I have yet to run into a single issue which requires me to boot into Windows to use some Windows specific application. I can view all sorts of video formats and listen to any audio. I can view any webpage on the internet using either Opera, Safari or Firefox, I can make a website, do photo, audio and video editing, web conferencing, read my emails, store my addresses, watch DVDs, use any instant messaging protocol... you name it! And to top that off, in case there is some wierd application that IS Windows specific, I can boot into Windows. For example, I can use FrontPage on my Mac, but you cannot use iWeb on your PC. The only difference between Windows and Mac is the QUANTITY of applications, not the VARIETY. If there are fifty media players on the Windows platform, there are ten on a Mac - but how many do you actually use?

the monopoly of Apple made apps rule the Mac market. Music player, well....its itunes, which monopolizes the Mac music player market. Video viewer well quicktime, cos apple bundles with the OS.

You say that like it's a bad thing. First of all, when you are using a Mac, you will - in all likelihood - prefer an Apple application to those made by third parties. However, if you do not wish to do so, the process of changing the default application for a specific task is simpler on a Mac than on Windows (just like everything else). Apple also has a comprehensive, properly organised and easily searchable list of most applications developed for the Mac platform on it's website.

go & remove QuickTime, your MacOS will seize to function properly, as whole MacOS uses QuickTime engine, it's deeply integrated, just like WMP is on XP SP2

You know what, I tried that and it did not affect my system at all. In fact, had someone else removed it, I would never have noticed it's gone unless I clicked on it's icon (which even tells me that the application is in the Trash - more on this at the end of the post *) or tried opening some QuickTime movie (and I can use VLC media player or NicePlayer to open that too). And uninstalling it was as simple as dragging it and dropping it onto the Trash in the dock. On the other hand, there is no uninstall option in even Vista for removing Windows Media Player should you feel like doing so.

In leopard, Spotlight will for the first time have functionality to launh applications, something we already got in Vista, now whose copying.

Would you mind clearing out your facts before posting them on public forums and showing off your... intelligence!
Press 'Command+Space' and type 'Q-U-I', hit return and QuickTime Player will be launched. In Windows Vista, press the Windows key, type 'M-E-D-I-A- -P', press the down arrow key and Windows Media Player will be launched. Obviously, Vista did not copy Spotlight at all, it was just a coincidence!
Spotlight has had the ability to lauch applications since it's inception, the feature will just be refined in Leopard so that you can launch applications will just three keys or two clicks and there will be a recent items menu built into Spotlight itself for even quicker launching of applications. This feature is not in Vista yet, but given that Apple has already publicly announced it, it's just a matter of a year or two before it is introduced in Vista by MS.

u r talking about recovering files, like we windows users can't use search at all

LOL! Don't tell me you actually used the built-in search in Windows XP. I tried that a few times but gave it up as a bad job after repeated failures. And don't even get me started on how much time each search took to complete before returning the result:
'Sorry! No results found. Would you like to make future searches faster?
'No, thanks for your trouble though! I'll try to ensure that I don't misplace any files in the future and call on your highness!!'
At least, you can give credit to Windows for keeping its users organised. I am becoming very lazy about organising since switching to the Mac. I did start using search in XP again though, when Google intervened and gave us Google Desktop Search.

& who said i have never used a Mac?

I think that would be me. I am sorry if I was wrong, but evidence so far suggests that you are as unaquainted to a Mac as a Penguin to Kolkata (for lack of a better simile).

U really are a troll fanboy

I suppose that's the truest statement in your entire post and it is, I suppose, the only thing you can say that you won't be demanded a reason for. I have no concrete proof to prove this statement false, so go ahead, use it as much as you can. At least, we won't have to hear the rest of the ridiculous things that we can prove false with absolute certainty and make you look like a fool. BTW, you are really hurting the venerable J.K. Rowling's sentiments be calling me a troll - you see, I am a really thin, average height guy who can speak english and has no wooden club to mash people like... never mind!

About Parallels, ... it sux, it's good for Mactel only.

Did I say anything otherwise? I said that 'Parallels is definitely the best choice there is' for running Windows on a Mac simultaneously. I never mentioned anything about Parallels Workstation 2.2 for Windows.

u cannot install MaOS X in Parallels workstation for Windows or Vmware

Again, I never mentioned anything contradicting that and anyway, that IS the beauty of it! THAT is why I encourage people to buy a Mac, because that is the ONLY legal way to use Mac OS X. And the illegal way is very difficult to get up and running, and even then it will be plagued with lots of driver and compatibility problems.

*Quick tip: Did you know that alises (shortcuts) on a Mac are dynamic and intelligent, not boring and stupid like in Windows. You make a shortcut to a file on your desktop in Windows (even Vista) and then delete the file. Click on the shortcut and you will get a message similar to:
'Error! The file you are trying to lauch has either been moved or no longer exists.'
WOW, that's helpful! If you know that much about the file, why couldn't you have just updated yourself when the file was either moved or deleted? And why are you leaving it on me to find out whether the file has been moved or deleted? Can't you just tell me that youself!
On a Mac, the aliases will always point to the file no matter where you move it. You can rename it, re-locate it, delete it, do anything with it. If it is on the system (apart from the trash), the shortcut will launch the file. If it's in the trash, the shortcut will tell you just that and offer to move it back for you and launch it. And even if it has been completely eliminated from the system, the shortcut will tell you that the file no longer exists on your system and will offer you the option of allowing it to delete itself. Now, that's user-friendliness! That is what speaks quality and attention to detail. That is why Apple makes outstanding products and others try to ape them!

See, I do not mean to abuse you or discredit you in any manner conceivable. You can only truly realise the beauty of using a Mac once you have done so for an appreciable length of time, say one week. You can simply NEVER return to the PC or Windows after that, unless you really start missing your anti-virus software or the Blue Screen of Death! I, as a genuine and friendly advisor, suggest you to please visit an Apple authorised reseller and ask them to give you a demo of an iMac (they are generally very glad to do so) and have a look at how things are done in the civilised world.
CAUTION: Please follow the above step only if you have the money to buy the iMac! I am not responsible for any mental instability that you might experience due to the result of having used an iMac and not being able to own it.

And, in the end, I am sorry if I hurt your feelings or some other deep sort of stuff by my rambling (though I did use extreme caution to avoid doing so). However, if you are not willing to pardon me, let me warn you that I have no bucks to pay you in case you decide to sue me! You might want to sue Apple instead as it is becoming a hobby and a potential profession nowadays! People are suing them left, right and centre for all the wackiest reasons and are making some quick bucks. Apple, it seems, is also following the same policy and it suing people for naming their products with anything resembling 'POD'. That, according to them, is a new type of 'thinking different'!


EDIT: I saw mediator's reply after posting mine and am therefore editing it to add this:

Sorry to be offensive, but dude If I start to reply to this post(#37) of urs quoting every single line, then I can promise I can make u look even more pathetic.

I guess I already did that. But there is nothing to be embarassed about as long as you realise that there are some things where others are better than you and other things where you are better than others. For example, I have always loved your reviews and tutorials about Windows stuff, you are good at them. However, you simply cannot hold your own in a platform vs. platform debate unless you have used both of them extensively. But that does not mean that...

U shudn't take parts in debates where u have one sided knowledge.

You should. You really should! After all, it's great fun replying to your wacky and absurd posts! And, who knows, you might even have a few valid points every now and then. After all, Windows does have a few good things that a Mac doesn't. For example, ... the games ... the patches for games ... the demos ... XBOX compatibility ..... there are a few more... umm, never mind!

 

[goobimama]

I can't help it! I have to add to the already huge amount of pasting that someone is getting here.

In leopard, Spotlight will for the first time have functionality to launh applications, something we already got in Vista,

LOL! If Vista ever debutes, I will light sixteen candles on my dogs back and run around a tree made of chocolate.

& who said i have never used a Mac?

I do too!

Thing is, iTunes and quicktime as so well integrated into the system, that one does not feel like touching them. You invoke frontrow, you get your music library. You are just about making a web page in iWeb (personally, I don't), all you iPhoto pictures are there. Its a seamless blend of perfectly designed applications that no one in their right mind would like to remove any of them.

MS will be removing some of the security features in vista

Obviously. All the antispyware, antivirus, antiwhatever needs to make some money of their own. If MS is totally secure, the second most selling application, the Antivirus suite, would go totally useless.

Which reminds me, any idea on which is the least annoying antivirus software out there? I needed it on one of them office PCs. Each one is worse than a virus...

And what the hell has Linux got to do with all this? I've tried linux but every time i install, I have to run around the net searching for drivers and applications. There is no unity (an official Linux website). It is powerful no doubt, but one has to work to get it to do what you want. If one likes to tinker around "a lot", then linux is it!

Again, I'm bored and cannot get sleep....

 

[gxsaurav]

There are more than four thousand four hundred and twenty free applications available for download for Mac OS X from Apple's official site itself.

U yourself said, what I wanted to say, there are more apps in Windows that means more choices.

Itunes , QuickTime etc is integrated, & no one likes to remove them, well, so is WMP & it works fine, so why are people commenting about it, cos it's MS, they have the market share, & they rule the market.

You say that like it's a bad thing. First of all, when you are using a Mac, you will - in all likelihood - prefer an Apple application to those made by third parties.

Of course it is a monopoly, if it is not, then why do u say, IE is crap & WMP is crap or Photo viewer in vista is crap, even Windows users will prefer a MS developed app, integrated in Windows instead of paying for it. But, other fan boys call it monopoly of MS

However, if you do not wish to do so, the process of changing the default application for a specific task is simpler on a Mac than on Windows

Mind stating how it is hard ? R u saying we do not have the option to select file types to integrate with applications such as Media players or Image viewers in them...wow...I find your knowledge amusing

I hardly use search, that too when find a specific system file, cos I know how to manage my computer. That is what i said in my previous post, unless u know how to use an operating system u can't say it sux....u guys really don't know how to use Windows do U?

the reason i don't like Apple are....

well, just read the previous post & prove me wrong

About parallels, well....I was just informing where it lacks, don't know how u took it

And what the hell has Linux got to do with all this? I've tried Linux but every time I install, I have to run around the net searching for drivers and applications. There is no unity (an official Linux website). It is powerful no doubt, but one has to work to get it to do what you want. If one likes to tinker around "a lot", then Linux is it!

U pushed the last nail in the coffin, the biggest problem with Linux, that u have to read half of Google to find anything . Now no comments on Linux & Windows, meditator, this is the grand truth isn't it


by the way, i was comparing Linux just to show where it stand over Mac. Apple has taken a lot from open source community, what have they given back.


if u know apple shake 4.1, it was relesed a few months back with Mactel support, & the price was reduced for Mac from $3000 to $499, it is also available for fedora core 4, & now u tell me meditator, is it right to make it for fedore core only, i mean, Linux is Linux inside right, so the kernal is same.....& if it is soooo standerd complient, then why doesnt't it work with other linux, i think it's the mistake of Apple right, well, let me tell u the cost of Shake 4.1 for Linux, it's still $3000, so insted of buying it for linux, u can very well get yourself a nentry lavel macPro +Shake 4.1 for Mac. but hey, it's valid, it's ok if apple copies from open soure applications & MS, they are elite....cos it's Apple, it's ok if they force users to buy a Mac to run MacOS X & still say Windows is bad, cos it's Apple. Just tell me one thing, do u guys get paid to right about Mac or what? About linux i can understand, it's spreading, but Mac, Mac Fanboys are the worst

I used Mac, long before u guys ever tried it on PearPC or other such emulators, I used it in OS X 10.1 & 10.2 days, & it was not what it is today, it has developed, & apple charges for the new version, which are more like service packs, this adds to my previous post about the cons of Apple & MacOS X that it is overpriced

Still, no one has said anything regarding the points I mentioned above, stating the pros & cons of MacOS X & Windows....any takers.

Well, i have been called a fanboy, i have been called an ignorent brat & whatever...well, i don't care what u guys say, I just had enough of this nonsence here fighting on point, that u guys don't even know about

 

[mediator]

Windows users are victimized? How come

Oh brother! U still say such things after I proven u wrong numerous times in that Linux Vs windows thread?? Guess u really dont read mah posts. Then all I can say is just experience Linux, get used to it and work on it normally for atleast a month without ur windows fanboyism!

And dude now u devating the topic to Mac VS Linux?? HOw pathetic can u get than this? Neways I like to know about that too, but u lost all mah trust in ur posts now. More than half the time u speak rubbish, post absurdly outta ignorance and at the end say "Whoops sorrry"!

Make some valid points (atleast one) so that every one may start liking ur posts!

 

[gxsaurav]

meditator, read the Windows vs Linux thread

 

[mediator]

^^ Huh, amusing. U tell me that? First complete by replying to mah previous posts there, then I promise to make u look more miserable!

 

[eddie]

You say that like it's a bad thing. First of all, when you are using a Mac, you will - in all likelihood - prefer an Apple application to those made by third parties. However, if you do not wish to do so, the process of changing the default application for a specific task is simpler on a Mac than on Windows (just like everything else). Apple also has a comprehensive, properly organised and easily searchable list of most applications developed for the Mac platform on it's website.

I don't understand much of what gxsaurav is writing but this is one point of his that I did understand. He means that if Microsoft integrates stuff like Windows Media Player and Internet Explorer in its Operating System, the whole world makes a huge issue out of it and they get sued for millions. On the other hand when Apple does the same i.e. to integrate itunes, quicktime etc. in its OS, no one is saying anything. His problem is that people under such conditions act like fanboys instead of thinking logically. As far as sending itunes to trash and not noticing it, well you can do the same for windows media player but then European Commission didn't like it that way but they don't have any problems with Apple

I personally feel that moving to Intel architecture will bring more attention to Apple and hence more law suites as well. I would love to see Apple getting sued just like how Microsoft was. That will clean some of their sins of not contributing back to open source

 

[gxsaurav]

thanx eddie, atleast someone understood my points

I don't have problem with linux or Mac, i got problems with it's fanboys. They act rubish, they speak like their OS is flawless & only Windows has flaws, anything Microsoft is bad, well then why use Microsoft Office on Mac, why not use openoffice on Mac.

The problems with Mac, are those i pointed out above, on which no one has replied. Mac is just preety UI, & a bubble that it's secure, it has no market share, why should someone make an adware for it, when only a minority will be affected, insted of making it for Windows, which is used widely

& yes, i m again saying, apple has a monopoly in Mac applications, I m not wrong regarding the fact about Apple shake 4.1 i pointed above

 

[eddie]

thanx eddie, atleast someone understood my points

Not points...just one point. Rest of it was Quantum Physics for me

 

[aryayush]

U yourself said, what I wanted to say, there are more apps in Windows that means more choices.

Umm... I also said that 'the only difference between Windows and Mac is the QUANTITY of applications, not the VARIETY. If there are fifty media players on the Windows platform, there are ten on a Mac - but how many do you actually use?' You seem to have missed that point. Tell me one thing, how many media players are there for windows in the market? Say about hundred, or maybe more. Do you, as a Windows user, ever feel the need to use more than four media players? I have QuickTime, iTunes, RealPlayer, VLC media player and NicePlayer installed on my system and I rarely use anything other than QuickTime or iTunes. HOW IN THE WORLD DOES IT MATTER IF YOU HAVE A HUGE NUMBER OF STUPID CHOICES!!! It only makes things complicated. At the end of the day, you want the job done best and any application which lets you do it will be the one, and only one, you use.

Itunes , QuickTime etc is integrated, & no one likes to remove them, well, so is WMP & it works fine, so why are people commenting about it

Who is commenting about it apart from you? I never said a word against WMP. I only said that there is no straightforward method of uninstalling it and that is true. And I mentioned even that only because you started the topic about QuickTime being difficult to uninstall and all that crap. Personally, I had never even tried uninstalling WMP when I used Windows because it is one of the best media players for Windows and it is better than QuickTime IMHO. It has more options, richer features, lots of customisation options and above all, it is completely free, unlike QuickTime. The only problem is that it is a bit bloated and works slow, but it's okay. I don't mind that and I never complained about WMP. You can search the forum for it and I'm sure you won't find a comment against WMP from me.

Of course it is a monopoly, if it is not, then why do u say, IE is crap

Because it is. What? You think IE is a good browser? Hey friends, listen up here, this guy actually thinks Internet Explorer is a good browser!!! Unbelievable stuff!
Mate, follow my advice, please DO NOT leave your house alone from now on and visit a psychiatrist ASAP!

Mind stating how it is hard ? R u saying we do not have the option to select file types to integrate with applications such as Media players or Image viewers in them...wow...I find your knowledge amusing

Did I say it was hard? Let me check... umm, I'm sorry but I cannot find the part where I said that.
I said it was simpler on a Mac than on Windows. Just because adding 'one' and 'two' is easy, does not mean that adding 'forty' and 'twenty' is difficult - the former is just simpler.

I hardly use search, that too when find a specific system file, cos I...

... have no other option but to...

manage my computer. That is what i said in my previous post, unless u know how to use an operating system u can't say it sux....u guys really don't know how to use Windows do U?

Okay, so if we lost a file and the OS cannot find it for us, it is us who do not know how to use the thing. Brilliant! How do you come up with such stuck up comments? I swear you are spending too much of your time on Nickelodean!

apple charges for the new version, which are more like service packs

Have you used Panther? Have you used Tiger? How can you say they are like service packs when you haven't? And if you have... it proves how simple a Mac is to use!

I will reply to the rest later. Got tutions now and am in a terrible hurry. Bye!
__________

anything Microsoft is bad, well then why use Microsoft Office on Mac, why not use openoffice on Mac.

Let me enlighten you about the reason. About 90% of the people in the world use Microsoft Windows and most of them use Microsoft Office as their office software. Now, if Mac users do not use MS Office, they will be at loss themselves because the software they use instead won't be compatible with the standard MS formats. Therefore, we use MS Office. Now, OpenOffice has almost native-like support for the MS formats but MS Office is far better when compared to OpenOffice. Having said that, the MS Office suite for Mac is far better than all the versions of Office for Windows before the latest beta of MS Office Professional 12.

The problems with Mac, are those i pointed out above, on which no one has replied. Mac is just preety UI, & a bubble that it's secure, it has no market share, why should someone make an adware for it, when only a minority will be affected, insted of making it for Windows, which is used widely

Whatever! Forget the reason. The fact is that you are very very secure on a Mac when compared to Windows. Why are you blaming it on the lack of market share or the disinterest of virus writers? What matters that there hasn't been a single virus for OS X yet that has affected anyone severly. Only two very small viruses have been discovered till now and they only did very minor damage to very stupid users (so you might be unsecure even with OS X ).

 

[gxsaurav]

Whatever! Forget the reason. The fact is that you are very very secure on a Mac when compared to Windows. Why are you blaming it on the lack of market share or the disinterest of virus writers? What matters that there hasn't been a single virus for OS X yet that has affected anyone severly. Only two very small viruses have been discovered till now and they only did very minor damage to very stupid users (so you might be unsecure even with OS X ).

A Flaw in Windows = critical, life threatening for a computer

A flaw in Mac = just a low level flaw,

Yeah right

& let me tell u one thing, u must be either joking or lying when u said u uninstalled QuickTime & still your Mac, itunes, iphoto were working fine

QuickTime is integrated in MacOS X quite deeply, itunes uses QuickTime audio engine & decoders to play music (this is not core audio), iphoto uses QuickTime image decoders & rendering engine to show the pictures on your screen, imovie uses QuickTime video engine to show the preview of movies in it

now, if u say, u uninstalled QuickTime, & still things worked fine, then this clearly means that even if u uninstall QuickTime in MacOS X, it just removes the player front-end & not the QuickTime decoders & engine, so again this is busting the myth of Mac users that u can completely remove anything in Mac, even Apples own software.

Just because of Apple's own software, their own drivers, their own hardware, it's so stable, if they release it publicly MacOS X will no longer be this stable, it will start to crash, cos there will be 3rd party drivers for it which may & may not be Apple certified

On a PC, things are different, there is an enormous number of hardware to choose from, u can use any kind of config, it's a great value for money, u can install on the same PC Windows or Linux, and however u cannot install MacOS on it, cos apple has tied it to their own hardware.

Due to this huge number of Hardware & software, stability problems arise, the cases of a BSD with WHQL drivers are one in a million.

 

[mediator]

manage my computer. That is what i said in my previous post, unless u know how to use an operating system u can't say it sux....u guys really don't know how to use Windows do U?

Please dont say such things, the people who use mac/linux here may be much better windows users than u, they might know much better than u on windows . But still despite all their tremendous efforts to keep windows in good shape, if they find windows weak in several apsects and mac/linux better than whats their fault??
Neways same can be said for u here, though u dont use mac/linux properly or r a noob, u still say they sux or r weak??
From the observation, I'm beginning to find MAC a good, strong distro and the supporters r giving convincing statements too! But still I wont form mah opinion if its weak or strong until I experience it mahself!
Neways from this post of urs it seems that 99.99% ppl dont know how to use windows and only u know the best! And then u say windows is user friendly, easy, stable........ etc? This statement of urs will mean that windows is more geeky than mac/linux!

Just because of Apple's own software, their own drivers, their own hardware, it's so stable, if they release it publicly MacOS X will no longer be this stable, it will start to crash, cos there will be 3rd party drivers for it which may & may not be Apple certified

Also please stop making such annoying and absurd statements and using clauses like "If it wud have been","if they release","they will","in the past" or whateva. DEbate is on present scenario and not about past,future or something that may be possible!

I guess this forum needs another section christened "MAC or APPLE" so that mac supporters don't make u look extremely miserable. And people like u and me can really be enlightened about MAC!

So please make valid points here and make the discussion and my observation interesting!

 

[aryayush]

A Flaw in Windows = critical, life threatening for a computer

A flaw in Mac = just a low level flaw,

Yeah right

I have yet to hear of ONE case where a Mac user was infected by a virus. The two cases I spoke of were also ones that I had heard at news sites. On the other hand, I have heard many complaints of serious viruses infecting PCs in Siliguri itself. To heck with others, I have myself Windows XP (and 98 before that) several times due to viruses. And are you seriously wanting to debate on PC viruses vs. Mac viruses? Man, you must be crazy!

& let me tell u one thing, u must be either joking or lying when u said u uninstalled QuickTime & still your Mac, itunes, iphoto were working fine

QuickTime is integrated in MacOS X quite deeply, itunes uses QuickTime audio engine & decoders to play music (this is not core audio), iphoto uses QuickTime image decoders & rendering engine to show the pictures on your screen, imovie uses QuickTime video engine to show the preview of movies in it

now, if u say, u uninstalled QuickTime, & still things worked fine, then this clearly means that even if u uninstall QuickTime in MacOS X, it just removes the player front-end & not the QuickTime decoders & engine, so again this is busting the myth of Mac users that u can completely remove anything in Mac, even Apples own software.

Maybe you are right. However, that does not prove anything. iTunes has to use some technology to play movies and if it shares the technology with QuickTime so as to save on resources and not have to use two separate engines for doing the same task for different applications, I can only call it clever and resourceful engineering on the part of Apple's OS engineers. They are intelligent enough to allow me to remove QuickTime without making the other applications suffer. That's cool! What exactly do you want to prove by saying that we cannot uninstall Apple's software completely anyway? If we uninstall QuickTime and it is removed so completely that everything else goes kaput, you start complaining. If we uninstall QuickTime and everything works fine, you start cribbing that QuickTime is not fully gone. Did QuickTime stick it's leg up your... BEEP!

Just because of Apple's own software, their own drivers, their own hardware, it's so stable

And your point is? It's stable, check. It's got great bundled applications, check. It is not prone to virus attacks and hackers, check. It can beat the crap out of any other operating system any given day, check. So, what seems to be the problem? How Apple maintains that is upto them. The point is that they offer absolute value for money. They make refined products that are far better than what others develop and they deliver a wonderful user interface to go with it.

Also please stop making such annoying and absurd statements and using clauses like "If it wud have been","if they release","they will","in the past" or whateva. DEbate is on present scenario and not about past,future or something that may be possible!

Exactly.

u can install on the same PC Windows or Linux

u can install on the same Mac Windows or Linux too

Due to this huge number of Hardware & software, stability problems arise

Are you a developer or an end user? I am an end user and I couldn't care less why the problems arise, all I know is that they are there on Windows and not on a Mac, which is why I prefer the latter. I don't need any stupid justifications.

the cases of a BSD with WHQL drivers are one in a million.

This one really had me in splits. The BSD is seen by only one in a million users!!! I would put that figure closer to one in every... maybe... one and a half! I myself have seen it so many times that I have lost count. And you have too, I am ultra sure of the fact. And you can conduct a poll here and see how many people have seen it. In fact, I AM posting a poll about it right now. We'll see the results in a week.

 

[Zeeshan Quireshi]

well mate i haven't ever seen the BDOS ever . n any end user who uses his computer will not experience it , it's only when we tinker with system files and all that we rarely experience the BSOD

 

[gxsaurav]

well mate I haven't ever seen the BDOS ever. n any end user who uses his computer will not experience it, it's only when we tinker with system files and all that we rarely experience the BSOD

Well said zeeshan, now I wonder, if Mac users are allowed to find out how which bin file work in Mac etc

Maybe you are right. However, that does not prove anything. iTunes has to use some technology to play movies and if it shares the technology with QuickTime so as to save on resources and not have to use two separate engines for doing the same task for different applications..............

Can u plz read above, I wrote this line just to prove that u are wrong when u said u can uninstall anything completely from MacOS X, unlike Windows where everything is integrated & removing it will give problems with OS. Just uninstall WMP in Windows XP or Vista, the engine & decoders are still there, but the player is not. So, all these years u were wrong when u said in MacOS U can completely remove an application when u simply drag it to trash, that’s the point

By the way, isn’t this the same thing happening in Windows from a long time, & wait, even Windows 2000 users with WMP6.4 can play WMV HD files fine, by just installing the codec, however MacOS X jaguar users cannot play QuickTime 7 files, at least panther is required...wow, great value for money man

How Apple maintains that is upto them

how MS maintains windows is upto them, if they give a feature different from the one in other OS, however similar to some extent, u cannot say it's copying. Any graphics programmer can tell u Expose is not equal to Flip3D, the engine is different, the rendering is different, the technique is different, where do I see copying, no where

They make refined products that are far better than what others develop and they deliver a wonderful user interface to go with it

Yeah, u r right, that’s the only thing good in a Mac, application based UI, u have to hunt for an application to do a task, not do a task which runs the appropriate application automatically...so which one is better

The point is that they offer absolute value for money

read page one again

Mac mini = cheapest Mac, in which u cannot upgrade anything other then RAM = 35k

iMac = All in one Mac, in which u can only upgrade, RAM, for other upgrades call Apple & pay them high prices, cos they use gold plated high quality Hard disk sleeves & sockets = 63k

Mac Pro = Fastest computer yet, u only get 3 graphics card to chose from. One being low end, good for video workstation only, one being high end in DirectX & gaming but sux at openGL (workstation tasks), one being ultra high end workstation card which sux at gaming (If Windows is installed). Well.....can I plug in graphics card of my choice, no wait....I can't but still despite of being bound to the hardware with no upgrade option it's still a value for money...yeah right

Well, maybe I don't have white color in front of my eyes, but I don't see Value for money here

DEbate is on present scenario and not about past,future or something that may be possible!

Oh...k, then why were u talking about BSD in Windows 98 in the other thread...r u still using it right now, should I start speaking about Macintosh System 7 & 9 UI & functionality

Are you a developer or an end user? I am an end user and I couldn't care less why the problems arise, all I know is that they are there on Windows and not on a Mac, which is why I prefer the latter. I don't need any stupid justifications.

if u don't know why they arise & if u don't want to know, then why r u saying it arises on Windows just cos Windows is bad, it's not Windows, it's poorly written application & drivers which do not pass proper validation, those which do, hardly ever create a crash, u do need justification. u were the one who started saying windows is bad & full of BSD, hey, why don't u mention about the kernel panic of MacOS

suppose u buy a car, & it doesn't starts, will u start complaining the manufacturer & buy a new car or find out why it is not starting

This one really had me in splits. The BSD is seen by only one in a million users!!!

u got some problem in reading text or what,,......read again

The cases of BSD with WHQL drivers are one in a million

 

[mediator]

well mate I haven't ever seen the BDOS ever. n any end user who uses his computer will not experience it, it's only when we tinker with system files and all that we rarely experience the BSOD

Thats one of the causes. Bsod's also occur due to installation of incompatible drivers (which i have seen bundled most of the times with hardwares cds), heat,ram problem,some softwares installed and a lotta other cases! Sometimes they leave u cluesless even when u know a lot about BSODs and then u refer to non-microsoft sites and forums coz MS supprt site is pathetic and rarely of use.
So its not "only when we tinker with system files"! Its has other cases too!

DEbate is on present scenario and not about past,future or something that may be possible!

Oh...k, then why were u talking about BSD in Windows 98 in the other thread...

Thats a poll created to express ur views according to thread creators wish. He may include win 95, linux, mac,unix or whateva. U have some problem?? Thats not a debate!! This is a debate! Have some crystal clear understanding and clear ur confusions about debates and polls!! Neways u wanna complaint about that thread then complaint in that thread.

if u don't know why they arise & if u don't want to know, then why r u saying it arises on Windows just cos Windows is bad, it's not Windows, it's poorly written application & drivers which do not pass proper validation, those which do, hardly ever create a crash,

Dunno about him, but I don't say windows is bad! But then according to this statement of urs who are the victims?? Do the people have to be serious geeks to know such things to work on windows?? This statement of urs clearly tells how weak windows is, that even poorly written apps can crash the whole OS in one go!! So windows stable?? forget it!!

suppose u buy a car, & it doesn't starts, will u start complaining the manufacturer & buy a new car or find out why it is not starting

Have some sense of giving appropriate examples dude!!
We buy clean XP without SP1 and Sp2 , we dont get a clue why BSOD's occur, shall we start finding the problem ourselves in windows?? If everyone was that good/geeky , then I guess even UNIX wud have been wiped out of existence!! Why did XP gave us "error reporting" service?? HOw did they released SP1 and SP2? All by themselves?? Did they tested that much themselves?? Open ur eyes dude and get rid of ur annoying and absurd fanboyism. Get some enlightenment dude. Customers feedback are a major part in sofware maintanence and improvement!! This is the last topic in software engineering if u remember i.e "TEsting and debugging" ! Why did they released "VISTA betas and all" and not the final official product??
So if a new car gets problems then it will get replaced ( or may get repaired by the customer himself ), but since u have no sense of giving examples too, I'll say we'll complaint against Microsoft if Xp didnt worked the first time. And to tell u thats a major fact in US. Most people openly complaint against MS and get their money back or problem solved coz customer care and customer rights are given importance there!! WHo'll ask to repair windows? They might get another BSOD! How can the customer fix the closed source software himself even if he's extreme geek forget about the noobs?? Shud the customer wait for a week/months/yrs to get the updates or service packs?? So have some sense and give some comparable examples in future!

Neways nice the debate is getting interesting

 

[eddie]

Maybe you are right. However, that does not prove anything. iTunes has to use some technology to play movies and if it shares the technology with QuickTime so as to save on resources and not have to use two separate engines for doing the same task for different applications, I can only call it clever and resourceful engineering on the part of Apple's OS engineers. They are intelligent enough to allow me to remove QuickTime without making the other applications suffer. That's cool! What exactly do you want to prove by saying that we cannot uninstall Apple's software completely anyway? If we uninstall QuickTime and it is removed so completely that everything else goes kaput, you start complaining. If we uninstall QuickTime and everything works fine, you start cribbing that QuickTime is not fully gone. Did QuickTime stick it's leg up your... BEEP!

You don't get the point do you? He is just saying that the scenario is similar to that of Windows Media Player. Microsoft was sued by RealNetworks for showing exactly that kind of "resourceful engineering".
*news.com.com/EU+slaps+record+fine+on+Microsoft/2100-1001_3-5178281.html
They were forced to produce an entirely different version of Windows for Europe. Microsoft were forced to pay a huge sum of money as fine because they showed "resourceful engineering". He is just saying that everything about Microsoft seems wrong to people and people get their panties up their a$$es while Microsoft's rivals are doing the same things.

And your point is? It's stable, check. It's got great bundled applications, check. It is not prone to virus attacks and hackers, check. It can beat the crap out of any other operating system any given day, check. So, what seems to be the problem? How Apple maintains that is upto them. The point is that they offer absolute value for money. They make refined products that are far better than what others develop and they deliver a wonderful user interface to go with it.

Recently Vista tried to do the same. They blocked kernel level hooks to provide better stability/security but all the Antivirus and other security software manufacturing companies threw a fit. Some of them were threatening (not in clear terms) to sue Microsoft again. What choice did Microsoft have? They had to open Kernel level insertions. Now, why does no one care about Apple when they are doing the same? Its simple...Apple are minnows in Desktop segment. Going after them would be foolish waste of monetary resources. So rather than justifying that what they are doing is right...just enjoy...just enjoy till it lasts!!! It won't be long before people will be whipping Apple's a$$es and I for one would love that day
__________

Thats a poll created to express ur views according to thread creators wish. He may include win 95, linux, mac,unix or whateva. U have some problem?? Thats not a debate!! This is a debate! Have some crystal clear understanding and clear ur confusions about debates and polls!! Neways u wanna complaint about that thread then complaint in that thread.

Someone else mentioned about this thread in that thread before he did something like this...
*www.thinkdigit.com/forum/showpost.php?p=326287&postcount=32

Seriously man...cut the kid some slack...

 

[gxsaurav]

Bsod's also occur due to installation of incompatible drivers (which i have seen bundled most of the times with hardwares cds), heat,ram problem,some softwares installed and a lotta other cases!

This is what i m trying to tell u from day one, it's not the flaw of Windows because of which BSD & crashes come, it's also the flaw of 3rd party applications

This statement of urs clearly tells how weak windows is, that even poorly written apps can crash the whole OS in one go

So, where was i wrong in it? it's trus obviously that poorly written application can crash your system, i mean, u are speaking in a manner that if windows crashes due to a buggy driver it's not the fault of the driver it's the fault of Windows...wow, great thinking man. Like with a poorly written application Mac/Linux won't crash

& seriously meditator better if u stay in that Windows vs Linux thread only, this is Windows vs Mac thread, i don't u have ever used a Mac, have u?

arayush

abe can't u read properly or what, I clearly said, Cases of BSD in Windows with WHQL drivers are one in a million, i never said, chances of BSD in Windows with improper drivers & poorly written application are rare.

Or u just don't know what WHQL is, Apple does the same thing, they test & validate the drivers for MacOS cos there are only a few hardware solution to chose from, only a few chipsets, only a few CPU, & only a few graphics card, so, they have total control over the driver checking phase, however in case of Windows there are many hardware configs available, MS checks most of them, but can't check all, else drivers will take 2 months to relese, & then u will again whine, that driver releses on Windows are slower, u just need a point to troll isn't it

In the end...i would say, this thread can be easily concluded as

Windows is Insecure, buggy, crashes like hell, lacks features out of the box

Microsoft cannot make Windows secure

Microsoft cannot give features in Windows

Microsoft cannot give a stable platform due to a very huge ammount of hardware & softares available (more then 4500 for Mac atleast)

now, these are the problems, Microsoft cannot even fix this, not because they can't, but because they are not allowed

When this symantec & MS battle started over Kernel patchguard, i said one line in a thread i remember, that Symantec will soon sue MS & say " U cannot make Windows secure, you are not allowed to" which is what exectly happened

& in case of Mac, they included everything out of the box (but no one sues them, no one gives a damn), it's stable (it runs only on a few fixed hardware configs), the drivers are stable (as there are only a few hardware configs), it has no virus (tell me a single hacker who would like to crack 4% computer users out there only, insted of 90% others).

 

[mediator]

Someone else mentioned about this thread in that thread before he did something like this...
*www.thinkdigit.com/forum/show...7&postcount=32

I know that bro! but the quotation I marked and u marked are different! In one person is just telling that he added a poll and in other the person is fighting over that poll in this thread ! I hope u got the point. He may add a poll too of his choice! Why fight over it??

So, where was i wrong in it? it's trus obviously that poorly written application can crash your system, i mean, u are speaking in a manner that if windows crashes due to a buggy driver it's not the fault of the driver it's the fault of Windows...wow, great thinking man. Like with a poorly written application Mac/Linux won't crash

Sorry to burst the bubble. But I can promise Linux wont crash like pathetic windows with poorly written apps!! Wanna get enlightened how?? Then open a thread on open source section and i'll enlighten u with full fledged details!! I dunno about mac!! Ur noob to linux, so please dont fight on linux and add further misery to urself!! U Better stay quiet about Linux.

& in case of Mac, they included everything out of the box (but no one sues them, no one gives a damn), it's stable (it runs only on a few fixed hardware configs), the drivers are stable (as there are only a few hardware configs), it has no virus (tell me a single hacker who would like to crack 4% computer users out there only, insted of 90% others).

It seems u like to share plight of windows and justify it a lot. If an OS is stable then its stable, why make stupid justifications?? Why r u justifying ur misery on windows due to crashes because of blablabla. The point is that it crashes. If the day comes when mac starts to crash, then I may change mah opinion about mac. But then its "If that day comes"! Talk about today and dont make justifications that viruses attack windows becoz its popular. If its popular then it shud have gotten a lot more secure than linux/mac since the day the windows thing started and the heart of windows shud have been virus-proof by now !! Don't blame the politics for that.

If a customer wants stability,security etc and shown with boxes one with windows and other with mac/linux etc, then he will just see the performance and stability and all he wants. He wont give a damn to the manufacturer's politics and its plight or show some brotherhood to the company!

Windows is Insecure, buggy, crashes like hell, lacks features out of the box

Present scenario!

Microsoft cannot make Windows secure

It shud have by now!!

Microsoft cannot give features in Windows

Who says?? It can and I guess u like to share their plight for it!

& seriously meditator better if u stay in that Windows vs Linux thread only, this is Windows vs Mac thread, i don't u have ever used a Mac, have u?

U need memory pills! I already told so many times, I'm here to know more about MAC. But if u say wrong about windows, then ofcors I'll quote u! So beware of talking nonsense and invalid statements.

 

[goobimama]

Seriously gx. If you were a hacker/cracker about to write a virus, would you like to be the creator of the 79430th virus for windows, or the first real virus for the mac, even though its just 4%. Tell me.