Windows Explorer vs Mac OS X Finder

[sakumar79]

@aryayush, thanks for the reply...
1. The column view seems to be a very nice concept... It can be quite useful while copying/moving files to subfolders, etc...
2. Regarding multi-tasking, I never have 30 application windows open, so I havent faced clutter in the taskbar... I dont chat much, my browser is tabbed, and XP groups my office docs together when necessary... I can even drag my taskbar to have two or three lines of tabs... And when I occasionally need to work on multiple things simultaneously (image processing on one side, browsing on another side, etc), I use this software called multiDesk. It is a 3rd party software providing similar features to the Windows Power Toy providing me virtual desktops to group similar tasks in one virtual desktop and navigate easily between one set of tasks and another...
4. I dont know about other users, but when I use a large monitor (at home, I have 17" only, but I have worked with larger screens before), I set the explorer window custom size to cover half or one-third of the screen width, and when I open two or more of them, I can easily view both simultaneously...
5. Im not a frequent user of drag-and-drop, but till date I havent any problem with using tree navigation to drag-drop... IMHO, the power of working with keyboard+mouse is much more convenient than just mouse.
6. Just a doubt, but if you have windows of all sizes on your desktop, would it not be harder to work within each of those windows... Will it not involve more scrolling? Suppose I am working on a spreadsheet, and I have to reference various cells for a formula, will not a smaller size make it harder to work? In this case, I think that maximising the window will be useful so that amount of scrolling is reduced...
7. Dont you think your comments like "But if a person can use Mac OS X after having used Windows and still prefer the former, there is something fundamentally wrong with that person!", "I can assure you this, however, that I do not know any human being who has used Mac OS X and disliked it or preferred Windows to it" are very strong words? I can give you a few reasons why people can still prefer Windows - (a) much wider 3rd party software base (for example, I am a structural consultant, and design software choices for windows is much more than for mac... In fact, I dont think that there is even one software available to design buildings using Indian Standard Codes... I could be wrong, but if you compare the number of choices, you will realize Windows has the advantage). (b) much better gaming platform (no need to elaborate, I hope). (c) Choice of hardware (again, no need to elaborate, I hope. I know Apple thinks it is its USP, but personally, it is one more strike against it, because I love assembling computers by myself). And I can tell you people you know who have used it and still preferred Windows - gxsaurav and iMav... Sure, you can state that they may be MS fanboys, but the statement will still need a little rewording.

8. Regarding my other points in the earlier post, I would like your comments... For you convenience, I am posting it here
-----
Secondly, you said convenience is the reason and I dont get it. I said you can do the same in windows (use scripts, run 2 copies of any app, close multiple apps very quickly) and you say mac is convenient. Please elaborate...

Thirdly, in windows, you can turn off auto arrange and use align to grid. I hope you are aware of that... I use it regularly. For example, you can keep your system shortcuts in one group on the top left corner of the desktop, your browsing apps in another group at the top right corner, office apps at bottom left corner and games in bottom right corner. All these will be aligned to grid. Is this what you are trying to say is missing, or did I misunderstand you?
-----

Arun

 

[gxsaurav]

And when I occasionally need to work on multiple things simultaneously (image processing on one side, browsing on another side, etc), I use this software called multiDesk. It is a 3rd party software providing similar features to the Windows Power Toy providing me virtual desktops to group similar tasks in one virtual desktop and navigate easily between one set of tasks and another...

A very good technology indeed, too bad it came to Leopard years after it came on Windows with nView.

 

[Quiz_Master]

After this debate....
Best of all Windows has a larger user base....
+ There are addons for explorer....
+ Explorer is more user friendly... + Windows PC are cheap compared to MACs

 

[infra_red_dude]

Windows PC are cheap compared to MACs

there it goes again.... brace urselves for another fight now!

 

[Zeeshan Quireshi]

I can assure you this, however, that I do not know any human being who has used Mac OS X and disliked it or preferred Windows to it.

does this mean I , Saurav n iMav are not human beings

About spring loaded folders (and it is not just limited to folders, it is everywhere in the operating system) - it would never really work in Windows

Well XP n Vista both have this functionality in Tree view .

When explorer is open , Just click on Folders in toolbar to switch to tree view , now drag a file over any folder in tree view and if you wait over a folder , then that folder expands to reveal subfolders and like this for every folder.

*farm2.static.flickr.com/1105/563586524_44fa02bc18_o.jpg

 

[sakumar79]

@Zeeshan, the popup nature of tree in Explorer has already been discussed. With Mac, you can bypass the waiting time for the popup by pressing space, but I dont think there is such an option in Explorer... However, if you browse to the destination first in the tree view, it is slightly faster and more convenient than using spring-loaded folders IMHO (but aryayush disagreed, and we should respect his opinion and leave it at that)...

On a side note: You like Dragonball Z? So do I...

Arun

 

[aryayush]

I did NOT disagree. As soon as you guys told me that the drop-down menu in the tree view expands when you hold something over it, I agreed that it is pretty much similar to spring loaded folders then. The smaller targets are still an inconvenience though and the fact that you cannot speed up the process. But like I said, it is great if it works for you.

However, nothing in Windows is similar to the column view and that is the biggest gripe I have with Windows Explorer.

I never have 30 application windows open

That's because you use Windows. I know you will disagree now but it is a fact that window management in Windows is pathetic and that is the reason why Windows users prefer to have a lesser number of windows open. Seeing more than ten windows in the taskbar would give anyone a headache. And just don't get me started on the brilliant "feature" of the taskbar that clubs all the windows of applications together. The first thing I do when I install XP on a machine is turn that stupid thing off. Window management on Windows, despite its name, is Hell.

I use this software called multiDesk. It is a 3rd party software providing similar features to the Windows Power Toy providing me virtual desktops to group similar tasks in one virtual desktop and navigate easily between one set of tasks and another...

You disagreed with me when I called your friends in this thread a bunch of dunderheads. There's a reason for that and it is clear in posts like this one:

A very good technology indeed, too bad it came to Leopard years after it came on Windows with nView.

You be the judge here. Does Windows come with virtual desktops built-in? No, it does not. You use free or paid tools from third parties and Microsoft to enable the functionality. Does Tiger come with virtual desktops built-in? No, it does not. You use free or paid tools from third parties to enable the functionality. So what is the difference between Vista and Tiger in this regard - none. Does Leopard come with virtual desktops built-in? Yes, it does and if you have seen a demo, you know that it is the most functional and slickest implementation of it. Mac OS X scores. And yet, you see posts like the one I quoted. This forum is full of such typical nonsense. And you expect me to regard their opinions seriously!

Just a doubt, but if you have windows of all sizes on your desktop, would it not be harder to work within each of those windows... Will it not involve more scrolling? Suppose I am working on a spreadsheet, and I have to reference various cells for a formula, will not a smaller size make it harder to work? In this case, I think that maximising the window will be useful so that amount of scrolling is reduced...

Windows that need to be worked on in full screen mode do support it. For example, MS Excel covers the whole screen when you hit the zoom button. But when you open Apple's official website and hit the zoom button, Safari will only use the screen space required to properly fit the website's contents, not more than that. It is much more efficient. And, in any case, if you insist on working in full screen with everything (though it is thoroughly inadvisable and I am sure you won't want to do it when you have the power of Exposé at your disposal), there is a free plug-in called megazoomer that does it. I use it and it works perfectly. Having said that, it sure would have been better if Apple provided an option full screen mode too for every application. But, to emphasise on what I said earlier, applications that require full screen do have it even now. And, of course, you can always resize a window to occupy the full screen once and it will always remember that setting.

Secondly, you said convenience is the reason and I dont get it. I said you can do the same in windows (use scripts, run 2 copies of any app, close multiple apps very quickly) and you say mac is convenient. Please elaborate...

How can I explain this to you when you have not used the operating system yourself! Anyway, here's an example. How do you install Yahoo! Messenger on Windows and how do you work with two instances of it?
1. Download the installer.
2. Run it and it will download another file that is about thirteen megabytes or something.
3. Next, next, next, next (uncheck all the stupid options), Finish.
Suppose your brother is also using Yahoo! Messenger and you hadn't thought of that earlier but you do not want him to use it.
4. Go to the 'Add and Remove Programs' thing and use the uninstaller.
5. Again, repeat steps 1-3 but install it in a private folder this time round.
Suppose you want to run two instances of it. How do you do it?
6. Repeat steps 1-3 and install it somewhere else and maybe you need to use a hack or something. I don't know how it works but since gx_saurav showed a screenshot of it, I am assuming it works.

How to do the above routine on Mac OS X?
1. Download the DMG file.
2. Copy the application from it to your Applications folder (or anywhere else) and run it. (You could also have run it directly from the DMG file.)
Now, how to move it to a private folder?
3. Drag the application to your private folder. Done.
How to run two instances of it?
4. Right click, duplicate. Done.
Uninstallation?
5. Drag it to the Trash.

This is what I call convenience and I respect it.

Thirdly, in windows, you can turn off auto arrange and use align to grid. I hope you are aware of that... I use it regularly. For example, you can keep your system shortcuts in one group on the top left corner of the desktop, your browsing apps in another group at the top right corner, office apps at bottom left corner and games in bottom right corner. All these will be aligned to grid. Is this what you are trying to say is missing, or did I misunderstand you?

I listed that feature because gx_saurav was intent on listing the tiniest of features in his review. It isn't a big deal. Anyway, the feature is that when you drag a file and leave it with the Command key pressed, it aligns itself to grid. It is not a very big deal, just a handy little feature.

 

[goobimama]

Here's my views on the subject of Drag and Drop:

When I was first researching whether or not to go for the iBook. When I went to the Apple Corner, the owner of the store showed me how to use OS X. And I was like, "What about maximizing and fullscreen?", "Why is there no taskbar" when he finally told me to sit down, and said this which I now stand by.

You can't bring along your windows baggage with you. The way you used to do things, which you used to do things, which may seem really efficient to you, must be left behind. Because when you use OS X, its a totally different working environment. But don't get scared that you might be lost, because when you work with OS X, it just flows. I'm guaranteeing you, that if you work "with an open mind" (GX?), within two weeks, you will agree all that I've said.

And I did go back and tell him that OS X was amazing. Even my dad, a long standing MS user since maybe 1988 or so, was really amazed by the ease of use and efficiency of doing things.

I don't know how or why finder is more efficient at dealing with files, but it is. And it looks good while doing that. It may be the little things like:

- Using hot corners for "Show Desktop" while holding a file in hand. Or even using Expose, to select among different folders.

- The fact that if you are in say User>system>music>rock>and you happen to want to listen to some gay music like Backstreet boys, you just enter backstreet into the search bar, and it searches that "rock" folder. This is the same with Vista upto now. But with OS X, there are a couple of tabs at the top which directly allow you to search "Documents", "Entire Computer", "This HDD" (though the wordings are different). Vista doesn't have this.

- The fact that if I want to move a say newly downloaded file from the desktop to User>system>music>rock, I have to actually open explorer. But with OS X, I just drag the file to the Mac HDD icon, it automatically opens up a window, you navigate with the mouse while holding the file, drop it, and the window automatically closes, with some sparky animation!

It may not be those things, I don't know. But when I work with a Mac, I instinctively move my pointer to the top left to show me all my windows, squeeze side mousebuttons for Desktop, and the file just goes wherever I want it to.

 

[aryayush]

this is a custom made notepad icon which I use in my Computer.

*img216.imageshack.us/img216/36/notesgg9.png

I've tried to give you some constructive criticism before and have been scarred by the experience. So, I don't expect anything from you this time round but I cannot resist commenting on this abominable icon.
It sucks. What were you thinking! You just took the original Notepad icon and added the pen from another icon in Vista. WOW! What an expert! And the light sources on the two icons are coming from different places. The shadow of the notebook is falling behind it while the pen's shadow is falling to the left of it. What lunacy is this anyway!

Here's my views on the subject of Drag and Drop:

When I was first researching whether or not to go for the iBook. When I went to the Apple Corner, the owner of the store showed me how to use OS X. And I was like, "What about maximizing and fullscreen?", "Why is there no taskbar" when he finally told me to sit down, and said this which I now stand by.



And I did go back and tell him that OS X was amazing. Even my dad, a long standing MS user since maybe 1988 or so, was really amazed by the ease of use and efficiency of doing things.

I don't know how or why finder is more efficient at dealing with files, but it is. And it looks good while doing that. It may be the little things like:

- Using hot corners for "Show Desktop" while holding a file in hand. Or even using Expose, to select among different folders.

- The fact that if you are in say User>system>music>rock>and you happen to want to listen to some gay music like Backstreet boys, you just enter backstreet into the search bar, and it searches that "rock" folder. This is the same with Vista upto now. But with OS X, there are a couple of tabs at the top which directly allow you to search "Documents", "Entire Computer", "This HDD" (though the wordings are different). Vista doesn't have this.

- The fact that if I want to move a say newly downloaded file from the desktop to User>system>music>rock, I have to actually open explorer. But with OS X, I just drag the file to the Mac HDD icon, it automatically opens up a window, you navigate with the mouse while holding the file, drop it, and the window automatically closes, with some sparky animation!

It may not be those things, I don't know. But when I work with a Mac, I instinctively move my pointer to the top left to show me all my windows, squeeze side mousebuttons for Desktop, and the file just goes wherever I want it to.

Spot on. As you can see, it is very difficult to explain things. OS X is just more efficient and there are no two ways about it. Exposé is the best feature ever on any operating system. Like I've said many times before, it single-handedly makes Mac OS X a better operating system than Windows Vista.

What he described is the exact same thing that I experienced and I also phoned back the salesman, who had enthusiastically given me the tour of Mac OS X and had been very patient with what I later realised were silly questions, to thank him for goading me into buying a Mac. You have to use it, with the desire to learn something new without the preconceived notion that it cannot be good, to feel the difference. For instance, you have to be willing to understand that minimising windows is not the most efficient way of managing them. This is just one of the many conventions that you have to let go. The only times I minimise windows is when I am doing something and someone comes into the room and I wish to hide that particular window (and no, I do not indulge in porn and stuff - I am just talking about hiding fun things like the Digit forum when I'm supposed to be working on Photoshop!) but not all the windows of that application.

I think goobimama put it perfectly with this paragraph:

You can't bring along your windows baggage with you. The way you used to do things, which you used to do things, which may seem really efficient to you, must be left behind. Because when you use OS X, its a totally different working environment. But don't get scared that you might be lost, because when you work with OS X, it just flows. I'm guaranteeing you, that if you work "with an open mind" (GX?), within two weeks, you will agree all that I've said.

When you are talking about Mac OS X, or using it - always remember these words.

 

[Zeeshan Quireshi]

I've tried to give you some constructive criticism before and have been scarred by the experience. So, I don't expect anything from you this time round but I cannot resist commenting on this abominable icon.
It sucks. What were you thinking! You just took the original Notepad icon and added the pen from another icon in Vista. WOW! What an expert! And the light sources on the two icons are coming from different places. The shadow of the notebook is falling behind it while the pen's shadow is falling to the left of it. What lunacy is this anyway!

Aryayush , it was an example to compare Icon size in Windows and Mac , not how beautiful this icon is .

 

[Quiz_Master]

I've tried to give you some constructive criticism before and have been scarred by the experience. So, I don't expect anything from you this time round but I cannot resist commenting on this abominable icon.
It sucks. What were you thinking! You just took the original Notepad icon and added the pen from another icon in Vista. WOW! What an expert! And the light sources on the two icons are coming from different places. The shadow of the notebook is falling behind it while the pen's shadow is falling to the left of it. What lunacy is this anyway!

gx_saurav wasn't showing off his graphic skills he was just saying that ICON features and icon handling in windows explorer of vista is much better then that of Mac OS X. Now when you were losing you just changed the topic.

He said The size of .ico file is much smaller then icnn (or whatever) file of Mac.
So you see he wasn't showing off that how he created that notepad icon. He was just showing the difference between both Mac and Windows Icon files. Right?

~PEACE~

 

[goobimama]

maybe aayush shouldn't have hammered on gx's imaging skills, but for what its worth, all the icons on my Mac, 128x128, are not more than 70kb, most of them are ~50k.

Here's a get info of two of the more complex icons:
*img260.imageshack.us/img260/1177/picture2pj6.png

 

[iMav]

arya just coz we dont open 35 windows at the same doesnt mean explorer is inefficient it means its so freakin efficient that the work of 30 windows can be done by opening 3 windows ... finder does it have up oops sorry unlike windows theres no up button at the top either go back or forth

next every1 arya is right for the first time:

i am not a human being im an alien from Zenn-La ... im the silver surfer

 

[aryayush]

gx_saurav wasn't showing off his graphic skills he was just saying that ICON features and icon handling in windows explorer of vista is much better then that of Mac OS X. Now when you were losing you just changed the topic.

He said The size of .ico file is much smaller then icnn (or whatever) file of Mac.
So you see he wasn't showing off that how he created that notepad icon. He was just showing the difference between both Mac and Windows Icon files. Right?

~PEACE~

Why is there so much misinterpretation going on here? I know why he showed that icon and I also know he wasn't showing off his designing skills. My comments were meant to be taken as an aside. I just said it so he could fix the particularly obvious fault with the shadows.

And BTW, like goobimama said, the icons on Mac OS X do not have massive sizes like gx_saurav said (read lied).

Also, in the Finder, you can set any image (JPG, PNG, GIF... what have you) as the icon for any file, so you do not need to depend on the iCNS format either.

finder does it have up oops sorry unlike windows theres no up button at the top either go back or forth

Even if we leave the completely pathetic language skills aside, you are very wrong. The 'Back' and 'Forward' buttons are right there by default and the 'Up' button, though not there by default because you do not need it, can be added by right clicking on it and customising the toolbar.

 

[iMav]

Arya - the genius, the language skills u r talking about is 1 thing i can beat u anytime anywhere , I will certainly remember that next time i post in a topic remotely related to you i will be grammatically precise.

Secondly, the phrase 'because you do not need it' is an absurd statement simply because if u (as in u - arya) were able to tell what 1000s of people need and don't need you would have been a phenomenon all across the world - which unfortunately isn't the case as of now (not ruling out a possibility in the future), just because u do not use something doesn't mean no 1 else uses it, as i said what 30 windows in mac allow you to do (what u refer to as multi-tasking) windows allows u to do it in 3, because we have trees - which means any location can be accessed easily (by that i mean without having to change the window contents u are working in) unlike finder, where u will have to 'spring' to every location and changing the window contents u are in (i hope ur brain is able to decode what i meant by that) or open another 'not required' window

 

[gxsaurav]

I've tried to give you some constructive criticism before and have been scarred by the experience. So, I don't expect anything from you this time round but I cannot resist commenting on this abominable icon.
It sucks. What were you thinking! You just took the original Notepad icon and added the pen from another icon in Vista. WOW! What an expert! And the light sources on the two icons are coming from different places. The shadow of the notebook is falling behind it while the pen's shadow is falling to the left of it. What lunacy is this anyway!

I slapped 2 icons, just to show you. Is it hard to understand?

maybe aayush shouldn't have hammered on gx's imaging skills, but for what its worth, all the icons on my Mac, 128x128, are not more than 70kb, most of them are ~50k.

That is just for the particular Icon state. I tried your method of using an Icon to use as my Vista parition icon in Mac, guess what, there us no copy option. I dragged & droped the file to the "preview" section & it copied to the Vista drive.

Mac OS X has individual image for each state, Windows Vista has just one PNG, Thats it, That does it all. The Lowest file size icon for Vista contains just one 256X256 PNG compressed in the .ico container

And BTW, like goobimama said, the icons on Mac OS X do not have massive sizes like gx_saurav said (read lied).

Vista has 256X256 icons which are resolution independent. If you use a screen resolution 1600X1200, this size does helps. When I use the Macintosh Icon format here with Icon workshop & export a Windows Icon as Mac icon this is how it comes out to be.

just because u do not use something doesn't mean no 1 else uses it, as i said what 30 windows in mac allow you to do (what u refer to as multi-tasking) windows allows u to do it in 3, because we have trees

Right said, why open 5 Finder Windows when we can do everything we need using the tree view in just one Windows, which also allows me to full screen

 

[goobimama]

What do you mean particular icon state? A file size is a file size. If I put it in a folder, and Get info, it shows the same size. Not sure what your 'state' thing is here.

As for copy paste thing for the Vista drive, you are using that NTFS thing right? Cause otherwise I couldn't change it.

You mentioned you pasted in the "Preview section". That's not the place. You see that tiny little icon right on the top of my screenshots? Where the file name is? That's where you first click on it to highlight, and then paste. It'll change right away.

 

[aryayush]

Aw, shoot! Did you have to mention that! He couldn't have figured it out himself if his life depended on it.

 

[goobimama]

Do you even know what resolution independent means? Cause I think I've got the wrong end of the stick.

From what I've heard, and what I hear could be wrong, tts when the menubar or taskbar, mouse pointers, stuff like that is independent of what resolution you are using. They will stay the same size no matter what resolution you are using. Having just large icons doesn't mean resolution independent. It could mean high resolution friendly... (like those weird 15inch laptops with 1920*1200 resolution)

 

[gxsaurav]

Goobi, you got it all wrong. Resolution independence means no matter what resolution u r using, the icons, text, menus will never be stretched cos that is all Vector based unlike current Raster based system we use.

This will also result in high DPI in displays, which will get rid of those tiny fonts on 30" Display.