Why Security Pros Use Macs

[sakumar79]

This thread is becoming a Windows vs Mac war... Waiting for a day to see if this cools down, otherwise, I am contacting the mods to lock the thread...

Arun

 

[Zeeshan Quireshi]

Sigh!!! As I said earlier...knowledge of English language has taken a serious hit on this forum. Mr. "Be Sharp"...be sharp!!! Look at the "OR" between the statements!!! Do I need to explain the meaning of "OR" to you?Does that "OR" mean anything to you at all? I don't even remember when I was taught the difference between and/or but it must've been around 2nd or 3rd standard. I am sure you've crossed that level of education...right?

og boy , now Don't Tell me that i'll have to take english classes from you

btw , don't wanna comment personally , but i can surely say that i know the english language as good , if not better than you .

 

[eddie]

btw , don't wanna comment personally , but i can surely say that i know the english language as good , if not better than you .

I just wish that while getting better then me at English language...you would have also learned the difference between and/or statements. That would have saved me at least two posts

 

[kumarmohit]

Ever worked on any program before? Here is an open challenge to any programmer in here (including you...if you are one). Download the source tar ball of Pidgin instant messenger (7.2 MB) and then from this source code...ask one of your friends to just go in and delete 5 random files. That is it...any 5 files from any directory. Now try finding which 5 files that person deleted and the function of these files...without running any compile or diff operation on the source code. If you can make "intelligent guess" and find those 5 files along with their function in this minuscule instant messenger source code...then I will believe that a programmer can actually find missing files from enormous source code of Windows!

P.S. You will have to explain in here how you found those files.

Great, when had I been saying earlier, that open source or not, it its just impossible to go thru every line, I was given the argument about the checks and balances in place in Linux, now you are trying to prove the same thing to me.

Great, I am highly obliged.

 

[eddie]

Great, when had I been saying earlier, that open source or not, it its just impossible to go thru every line, I was given the argument about the checks and balances in place in Linux, now you are trying to prove the same thing to me.

Oh my god!

Mohit...looking at your previous posts I really thought better of you but you seem to falling at levels of some other Windows users of this forum. If you can't see the difference between the audit-ability of a compilable open source program and a non-compilable source code...then I just can't discuss anything with you. On one hand you have open source code that has gone through a full community of developers with full privileges to dissect it the way you want...and on other hand you have source code that you are not even sure is complete or not. Which one can be trusted? You really really need to focus and go through all the previous posts before involving in this discussion or taking something out of context.

 

[praka123]

Eddie,U explained it very well.even windows! users can understand what u said.
But............
The Truth is Windows users dont want to hear it.They always feels that they are secured.hmm..mehh?

 

[eddie]

Eddie,U explained it very well.even windows! users can understand what u said.
But............
The Truth is Windows users dont want to hear it.They always feels that they are secured.hmm..mehh?

I know but I really thought better of this Mohit guy. Looks like I was wrong

 

[kumarmohit]

Fine eddie, It seemed our discussions got goofed up somewhere ... because I admit that I am too lazy to quote previous posts from entire thread.

On one hand you have open source code that has gone through a full community of developers with full privileges to dissect it the way you want...

As far as I know, even Apple, Microsoft etc also have a number of people who do go thru full compilable source of Windows, and if you think objectively, you might realise that all employees of these companies are not evil.

Similarly you cannot defer on the point that some FOSS projects do run with lesser amount of people, I am not saying that they do not make effort.We in ReactOS went thru entire code audit just becoz a single developer accused of MS copied code.

Do you think that that apple and ms with all the resouces cant hire a bunch of testers and code auditors?

(Out of context) - If I am not wrong Even the maker of SpyBot S&D allows Universities to check code even tho his code is not open source.

Hey I think I shud cut this discussion on my part coz this thread is now as offtopic as it may have gotten.

 

[eddie]

As far as I know, even Apple, Microsoft etc also have a number of people who do go thru full compilable source of Windows, and if you think objectively, you might realise that all employees of these companies are not evil.

Its not about whether the developer is evil or not...it is about what a company tells its employees. You must have heard about Symantec's example?
*blogs.zdnet.com/Spyware/?p=747&tag=nl.e589

Should we take it that all the developers at Symantec are evil? No. It is the orders that the company gives to its employees and makes them work in a particular way.

Similarly you cannot defer on the point that some FOSS projects do run with lesser amount of people,

No matter how small the amount of people involved in the project...the code is out there. You can check it yourself by compiling it into working binaries...seeing what is being loaded at the run time while those binaries run and check how they behave. Such audit is not possible with closed-source software...period.

Do you think that that apple and ms with all the resouces cant hire a bunch of testers and code auditors?

...and you think Symantec doesn't have the resources? Clearly it is not about resources.

 

[iMav]

interesting eddie now uv started taking symantech as an example for bashing MS ... as u say sheeesh ...

 

[Zeeshan Quireshi]

well Eddie , have you even visited Microsoft's Shared Source site to know what the license term says , well let me tell it to you .

Microsoft Has 3 Shared Source Licenses .
1.Microsoft Permissive License (Ms-PL)

The Ms-PL is the least restrictive of the Microsoft source code licenses. It allows licensees to view, modify, and redistribute the source code for either commercial or non-commercial purposes. Under the Ms-PL, licensees may change the source code and share it with others. Licensees may also charge a licensing fee for their modified work if they so wish. Microsoft uses this license most commonly for its developer tools, applications, and components.

2.Microsoft Community License (Ms-CL)

The Ms-CL is a license that is best used for collaborative development projects. This type of license is commonly referred to as a reciprocal source code license and carries specific requirements if licensees choose to combine Ms-CL code with the licensee’s original code. The Ms-CL allows for both non-commercial and commercial modification and redistribution of licensed software and carries a per-file reciprocal term.

3.Microsoft Reference License (Ms-RL)

The Ms-RL is a reference-only license that allows licensees to view source code in order to gain a deeper understanding of the inner workings of a given technology. It does not allow for modification or redistribution. Microsoft uses this license primarily for technologies such as its development libraries.

Also Microsoft has Many other programs to let developer's gain full access to windows source code n see how it works .

• Enterprise Source Licensing Program (ESLP)
  The ESLP allows eligible enterprise customers access to Microsoft Windows source code for internal development and support purposes, including debugging. This enables customers to develop and support their internally deployed applications and solutions that run on Windows.
• Government Security Program (GSP)
  The GSP helps national governments and international organizations address the unique security concerns they face in the digital age. The GSP provides participants with the information and source code access needed to evaluate the security of Microsoft products.
• Most Valuable Professional Source Licensing Program (MVPSLP)
  The MVPSLP provides participants with increased visibility into Microsoft Windows source code, enriching customer and community support for those organizations using the Windows platform.
• OEM Source Licensing Program (OEMSLP)
  The OEMSLP allows eligible OEM customers access to Windows source code as a reference for the development and end-user support of Windows-based OEM hardware products.
• Systems Integrator Source Licensing Program (SISLP)
  This program enables Systems Integrators to provide their customers with more in-depth knowledge of the Windows platform, deliver deep security analysis and privacy verification, more rapidly troubleshoot customer issues, and offer performance tuning for custom applications running on Windows.
• Availability by Geographic Market
  National laws, practices, enforcement policies, and attitudes toward intellectual-property protection are reviewed in determining where Microsoft source code can be made available.

In addition , Microsoft's Code Center Premium allows developers to view windows source code securely from anywhere using a browser .

Code Center Premium
Code Center Premium (CCP) is the Web-based, secure source-access mechanism for a number of Microsoft Shared Source licensing programs. CCP enables licensees to access source code securely from any location and eliminates the managerial burden of maintaining gigabytes of code.

Honestly , As KumarMohit , iMav , Saurav , BlackPearl n I have said repeatedly , please do some research before posting .
Aryayush , Nepcker n others r atleast informed of what they r posting you don't even seem to know what you're saying .

 

[eddie]

well Dumb-Headed Eddie , have you even visited Microsoft's Shared Source site to know what the license term says , well let me tell it to you .

Oh you stupid frigging uneducated idiot...can't you read and understand simple English?

The Ms-RL is a reference-only license that allows licensees to view source code in order to gain a deeper understanding of the inner workings of a given technology. It does not allow for modification or redistribution. Microsoft uses this license primarily for technologies such as its development libraries.

Microsoft users this "reference-only" license for its "development libraries". Does you pea-brain interpret what that means? You can JUST LOOK AT THE SOURCE CODE OF THEIR LIBRARIES...just LOOK and that is what I have been saying through out my posts!!! Read you retard!

God damn...you are so stupid that if reality hit you in your head...you wouldn't understand because it would obviously be in ENGLISH!!! Honestly...you should go and kill your English teacher.

P.S. I did read the page you stupid!

 

[gxsaurav]

shant gadadhari, frustrated by truth & pwmage eddie, shant.

Using the MVP licence program even we can see or audit source code of any MS technology provided that we sign up & tell MS about it to get permission.


U do not belive that MS is giving us the whole real source code to see or audit. well we believe them cos we can compile & check if something does't work we can look for the missing library & ask MS for it. Period.

 

[eddie]

U do not belive that MS is giving us the whole real source code to see or audit. well we believe them cos we can compile & check if something does't work we can look for the missing library & ask MS for it. Period.

LOL!!! Yeah and we should believe YOU!!! *www.fileupyours.com/files/94923/hah.gif

The biggest liar in this forum comes and claims something more...and we should believe it? LOL! Didn't you and zeeshan claim that Adobe uses Qt to make CS3 and then were proven as little liars? You have lost your credibility and dignity...just don't even think about making any claims...at least not in front of me.

 

[aryayush]

LOL!!! Yeah and we should believe YOU!!! *www.fileupyours.com/files/94923/hah.gif

The biggest liar in this forum comes and claims something more...and we should believe it?

Frankly, you must be out of your mind if you do. Thankfully, you don't.

 

[Zeeshan Quireshi]

Microsoft uses this license primarily for technologies such as its development libraries.

oooh , look who's sayin when he himself can't understand simple English .

well the keyword here is primarily not only , primarily means that Microsoft uses this license for other things too , not that it uses this license only for it's development libraries .

Also , many of these libraries form the core of the windows OS .

Also under the Shared Source initiavties companies are allowed access to ALL of microsoft's source code provided they use it for studying windows component n core architecture . the companies can also submit code if they make changes and which they think r beneficial , this code will be reviewed by MS and if approved will be integrated into Windows .

Also under Microsoft Windows Academic Program , universities are also allowed to access Windows code . Heck microsoft even provides presentations , notes n other resources to help students understand the internals of Windows OS .

Windows OS Internals Curriculum Resource Kit (CRK)
Provides instructor resources, including PowerPoint presentation slides, experiments, hands-on labs, sample quizzes and assignments for introducing case studies from the Windows kernel into operating system courses.

 

[eddie]

oooh , look who's sayin when he himself can't understand simple English .

well the keyword here is primarily not only , primarily means that Microsoft uses this license for other things too , not that it uses this license only for it's development libraries .

You are more stupid then I thought. Just because Microsoft uses "the license" on other things means that its development libraries come under some other license as well? You retard it just means that Microsoft is free to use this license on other technologies but the core development libraries come under this license only and that is the fact. Seriously...dude...did you ever go to school?

Also under the Shared Source initiavties companies are allowed access to ALL of microsoft's source code provided they use it for studying windows component n core architecture .

Yes...for "STUDYING"...not for compiling! Understand this you fool...

Heck microsoft even provides presentations , notes n other resources to help students understand the internals of Windows OS .

...and you can compile presentations and notes into binaries? *www.fileupyours.com/files/94923/jok.gif

Frankly, you must be out of your mind if you do. Thankfully, you don't.

Oh I would rather blow my brains out before I believe any of these two liars!

 

[Zeeshan Quireshi]

Yes...for "STUDYING"...not for compiling!

Studying , here means doing nything you want wih the source code other than distributing it or leaking it or violating other terms limited in the License .

i would request any microsof MVP , Vishal , Saurav , Anandk , could contct MS or use their MVP status to access windows source code n give us a lead then it would be great .

 

[eddie]

Studying , here means doing nything you want wih the source code other than distributing it or leaking it or violating other terms limited in the License .

Yes and I totally "BELIEVE" you

 

[gxsaurav]

Eddie, upon the permission from MS even we MVP can access & study or audit the source code of any Microsoft Technology like IE Trident engine or DirectX HLSL. However we cannot redistribute it.

Whether you believe it or not doesn't makes any difference that Govermants can see Windows source code, & others can too upon MS permission