Why Apple can afford to rock

[iMav]

the reason why apple can rock is because it has managed to get itself a place where it commands the loyalty of customers like aayush (no offense), its like theres yamaha, theres honda, theres Triumph and then there is Harley or Hummer .... steve jobs though in the worst possible ditches back when the coke guy almost ousted him stuck to his policy of making something thats premium not many would take the risk and once that worked he did not change policy and still kept his products in the premium range at this point i would also like to point out that releasing iPods for Windows based machines was the single most influential desicion that any CEO has taken and was the sole reason (the iPod itself being secondary) why iPod succeeded

its like in midst of the low cost airline race in india vijay malaya said no im gonna make a premium product and make no mistake about it thers a huge market for premium products, people look to buy premium products as they are a symbol of status and then offcourse u have the elite or rich who will buy the premium product because they can

and thats why no matter how irrational decisions apple takes such as a crippled bluetooth or no vid rec or no optical drive it can still rock

PS: iv been asked many times why i hate apple and my answer always has been that i dont hate apple as a matter of fact i love their hardware but what i hate is that it fools people by illusions such as having no optical drive means ur cooler and the thing i hate most is its fanboys they think that people using windows are "children of a lesser God"

 

[krazzy]

So do I, which is why I take the effort to type those lengthy replies and read yours and of the likes of krazyfrog. (good post, BTW).

I'm honoured. Really I am. You see, its not really fun typing out these long replies on the tiny keypads of cell phones (no net on pc right now). But when you realise somebody out there actually reads, likes and appreciates your posts, it makes it worth the trouble.

BTW even I'm a bit confused as to what exactly we are supposed to 'fight' on. I guess all that needed to be said has been said already.

@Pathik, it was a just jokee .

 

[ring_wraith]

Oh well, I guess we are at a deadlock of sorts. At least the mighty Aayush is rendered unable to make Mac appear significantly better than PC.
The final word: Mac and PC will co-exist until the end of time, simply because they are targeted at different segments of society.

Let's leave it at that. Mods, please lock this thread as an example of a rare, civil discussion in the Fight Club.

 

[Gigacore]

MAC will exist with PC untill the end of time, but not their fanboys

 

[kalpik]

Locked on thread starter's request

 

[kalpik]

Opened on thread starter's request

 

[ring_wraith]

^^ Thanks Kalpik.

A quick explanation, Aayush had a retort, and wanted to post it. Okay Aayush, fire away.

 

[aryayush]

Here are a few links that you should definitely read thoroughly.

Who Is Jonathan Ive?

Steve Jobs in a Box

Apple's design process


After you're done, read the book iCon Steve Jobs: The Greatest Second Act in the History of Business by Jeffrey S. Young and William L. Simon.


I won't have to tell you anything after that. You'll change your opinion yourself. Talent can be bought, agreed. But you need to have a penchant for finding talent and inciting apparently non-talented people to perform beyond their capabilities. And you need to want to have that talent onboard.

Not every company has a Steve Jobs at its helm and therefore, not every company has a design sense like Apple's. Yes, as crazy as that sounds, Steve Jobs is the sole reason Apple excels at design. Read iCon and you'll know what I'm talking about.

In the ten years when Steve was kicked out of Apple (due to mistakes of his own), Apple did not produce a single product that has been honoured with a place in the museum of technology (or whatever it is called). And from the years when Steve Jobs was at Apple, there have been several products that are today enshrined on pedestals in that museum.

It's common knowledge that, for the most part, Apple is a one man army. Steve Jobs is aware of his importance. When he was diagnosed with pancreatic cancer, the type that almost surely kills its victim, he hid it for nine months until the penultimate moment when surgery was the only option left. Do you know why? Because he knew that if shareholders came to know that he might leave the company (in other words, die), they would all flee and all the hard work he'd put into restoring the company to glorious heights would go to waste.

That's how important he is to the company. And he is the only reason the company has a great sense of design. Jonathan Ive had been at the company for three years before Steve Jobs returned and in those years, he did not come up with a single innovative design. Once Steve Jobs was back, that same Ive gave us the iPod, the iMac, the Cube and the iPhone.

Money can buy you a Jonathan Ive, sure, but no amount of money in the world can buy you a Steve Jobs.

Read those links and that book. Enjoy.

 

[ring_wraith]

Ok, I'm not going to argue with that simply because I haven't read iCon. If anyone has, feel free.

 

[goobimama]

The total cost of owning a computer isn't just about what you pay for in the beginning. The efficiency, maintenance and other things all come into play.

1: From the word "go", the iMac is ready to be used. Takes less than a minute to set it up (it even enables the iSight camera while setting up a user account) and you are all ready to work. Compare that with either installing Windows on an assembled computer, or removing all of the crapware that comes with a branded machine and you know what I'm talking about.

2: Maintenance: Don't say there is no maintenance for a Windows system. First thing you have to maintain that Antivirus software. Then the defrags. Then clear out those system error report files. Clean out spyware.

3: Repairs: Poorly designed computers always have problems with them. Not to say that Macs don't. But when I'm reassured that I will get a standby machine while my mac is being repaired (maximum 1 week), I have peace of mind that my work won't suffer.

4: Silence: Macs are totally silent unlike those whiny beeches.

5: Efficiency of work: While things like interface are subjective, I can say with certainty that the mac has an edge with it's interface. Almost a fact. Things like drag and drop, the dock, spotlight, quicksilver, quick look just go with the workflow. I personally cannot work with Windows anymore (other than typing this thing out in Safari-Windows).

Could Apple reduce their prices and be a little bit more reasonable (12k for 2GB RAM!)? Yes. Certainly. But do we have any other choice if they don't? Most certainly not.

 

[aryayush]

5: Efficiency of work: While things like interface are subjective, I can say with certainty that the mac has an edge with it's interface. Almost a fact. Things like drag and drop, the dock, spotlight, quicksilver, quick look just go with the workflow. I personally cannot work with Windows anymore (other than typing this thing out in Safari-Windows).

Could Apple reduce their prices and be a little bit more reasonable (12k for 2GB RAM!)? Yes. Certainly. But do we have any other choice if they don't? Most certainly not.

I couldn't agree more. These points are spot on.

If you're a Mac user, it is hard to imagine how life would be if you switched back to Windows. The user interface is just light years ahead.

And you, ring_wraith, or anyone else on this forum can never post any knowledgeable retort against the Mac's user interface (you earlier said that it's just a matter of getting used to, but you were wrong) unless you've actually used a Mac as your main machine for a couple of months.

Only then will you be in a position to compare Windows' UI to Mac OS X's from an equal standpoint. Of course, by then you'll have switched and anything you'll say will be disregarded by other ignorant people as the blinded opinion of a fanboy.

All said and done though, what Milind pointed out rings absolutely true, and is a universal sentiment that you'll find is shared by Mac users across the world. Once you've used a Mac, it's impossible to not look at the comparatively primitive Windows user interface with scorn.

As long as Mac OS X is the only operating system that allows me to drag the file I'm currently working on in Photoshop out of the title bar, onto a corner of the screen to activate Dashboard and drop it onto the ImageShack widget to have it uploaded and the BBCode copied to your clipboard–nothing in the world can change my opinion that it is the operating system with the most superior user interface on the planet.

 

[goobimama]

^^ Oh I didn't know about this widget. Anyway, I just use Skitch

 

[ring_wraith]

Sigh, my bones grow weary. This debate is not a task for one man. But despite all this, I realize my folly about what I said about OSX's interface.

I had no right to make a statement like the one I made earlier and take it back. Only after I have used OSX for a decent amount of time should I judge it.

For example, what you said in the last paragraph is news to me. But I've got to admit, that sounds bloody amazing.

That said,

The total cost of owning a computer isn't just about what you pay for in the beginning. The efficiency, maintenance and other things all come into play.

1: From the word "go", the iMac is ready to be used. Takes less than a minute to set it up (it even enables the iSight camera while setting up a user account) and you are all ready to work. Compare that with either installing Windows on an assembled computer, or removing all of the crapware that comes with a branded machine and you know what I'm talking about.

2: Maintenance: Don't say there is no maintenance for a Windows system. First thing you have to maintain that Antivirus software. Then the defrags. Then clear out those system error report files. Clean out spyware.

3: Repairs: Poorly designed computers always have problems with them. Not to say that Macs don't. But when I'm reassured that I will get a standby machine while my mac is being repaired (maximum 1 week), I have peace of mind that my work won't suffer.

4: Silence: Macs are totally silent unlike those whiny beeches.

5: Efficiency of work: While things like interface are subjective, I can say with certainty that the mac has an edge with it's interface. Almost a fact. Things like drag and drop, the dock, spotlight, quicksilver, quick look just go with the workflow. I personally cannot work with Windows anymore (other than typing this thing out in Safari-Windows).

Could Apple reduce their prices and be a little bit more reasonable (12k for 2GB RAM!)? Yes. Certainly. But do we have any other choice if they don't? Most certainly not.

1. I'll give you that. But is saving a couple of hours of your time worth 30,000?
2. With freeware just about everything can be automated.
3. Repairs? now we're nit picking, but yes I agree, purely because it is centralized.
4. That is so wrong. Replace the stupid stock cooler with any half-decent one, and case fans with stealths. Total Cost= <4k.
5. Can't comment.

Point no. 4 actually directed my attention to a point that is ironically in Mac's favour. Macs do use high quality components. I'd shoot myself in the head before I began comparing A mac keyboard to any other 200 buck keyboard.

 

[aryayush]

Believe me, mate, that's just one example.

Unless you absolutely use Mac OS X with a mind set on hating it (some people do), I don't think it is possible for a normal human being (assuming that all normal human beings prefer better things when faced with a choice) to not see the light.

I can agree with you that Apple's machines are expensive (yes, they are), specially in India. I can agree that Apple tends to screw their customers sometimes. But is there any question that Apple's operating system is the king when it comes to the user interface (and most other areas, actually)? No, none to the aforementioned normal human being.

 

[goobimama]

1. Time is money my friend. And point 2 takes a lot of time in my opinion.
3. No. Not nit picking. The only nit picking I do, is with Apple. I nit picked about my keyboard keys getting a little hard for me - replaced it. There's more examples of nitpicking.
4. Well, for most users that is like rocket science.
5. Hmm...

And btw, that thing about the imageshack is just but one of the many examples I could throw at you.

 

[gxsaurav]

Why debate on something we all have already debated????

 

[Gigacore]

BTW, I dont go by looks

 

[aryayush]

Here's what Bill Gates had to say about Steve Jobs at the D5 conference last year:

Steve gave a speech once, which is one of my favorites, where he talked about, in a certain sense, we build the products that we want to use ourselves. And so he’s really pursued that with incredible taste and elegance that has had a huge impact on the industry. And his ability to always come around and figure out where that next bet should be has been phenomenal. Apple literally was failing when Steve went back and re-infused the innovation and risk-taking that have been phenomenal. So the industry’s benefited immensely from his work. We’ve both been lucky to be part of it, but I’d say he’s contributed as much as anyone.

I’d give a lot to have Steve’s taste. He has natural–it’s not a joke at all. I think in terms of intuitive taste, both for people and products, you know, we sat in Mac product reviews where there were questions about software choices, how things would be done that I viewed as an engineering question, you know, and that’s just how my mind works. And I’d see Steve make the decision based on a sense of people and product that, you know, is even hard for me to explain. The way he does things is just different and, you know, I think it’s magical. And in that case, wow.

This says as much about Jobs' aesthetic sense as it does about Bill Gates' modesty.

 

[ring_wraith]

Wow. What those two could achieve together is beyond me.

BTW... does anyone realize how un-cool we all are right now? I mean fawning over Gates and Jobs? Not that I mind... I just hope my girlfriend doesn't chance upon this thread.

 

[aryayush]

That's why some of our best friends are online, man.