Vista - Will it Fly or Fall

[praka123]

why Does anyone wants a free software OS to be a paid one?Let the Free SOftware and Open SOurce to stay here.both DRM and propreitory system need to be &cked off from this planet.

 

[tarey_g]

propreitory system need to be &cked off from this planet.

Great everyone wants things free , but as a MCA student and a programmer i am going to starve in this future. Then maybe MC Donalds should give free burgers/pizzaz to me and others like me to eat (free until u dont sell it further) coz i dont want to die from hunger.

You are getting free os , be greatful . But not everything in the world can be free, are you working in some company for free? or you are in a school which doesn't take fees? I wont mind a free benz .

 

[gxsaurav]

why Does anyone wants a free software OS to be a paid one?Let the Free SOftware and Open SOurce to stay here

From what I know, Linux means freedom as in free speach, not as in free beer, however what u r saying shows u mean linux as in Free beer

Oh comon, users won't be against paying for such an OS. They get the freedom of using whatever they like & all the benifits & just by paying a modest fees they can get properity codecs etc.

get out of the mentality that MS is evil first of all, MS & linux can work together though only those distro which provide paid Linux

 

[mehulved]

I don't think linux will ever include proprietory softwares out of the box. Because, yeah, OSS community believes in free as in free speech.
But, it is possible that ubuntu may be a paid distro in the future.
tarey nowhere is it mentioned that a linux distro or OSS software needs to be free of cost. No one wants a developer to starve. The word 'free' always refers to 4 freedoms not to free of cost

 

[tarey_g]

tarey nowhere is it mentioned that a linux distro or OSS software needs to be free of cost.

Yes sure, i was just replying the guy who said "propreitory system need to be &cked off from this planet." Which IMO is not practical.

 

[mediator]

@tarey - You shud read this Who really writes linux and think again on ur statements in post #143!

 

[praka123]

this question of earning daily bread n butter for programmers/developers are currently well answered by the employees of *ubuntu.com
they are paid well.the canonical gets money by the software subscription model and services.
The Point I want to say is FLOSS is a movement initated by intellectuals who respect humanity and individual's right's,freedom.On the Other hand,RIAA or whoever are doing DRM for their benefits that the common men need to pay to get a restricted usage--- of what he brought thinking its his own and its his freedom,liberty to use it.SO Let the RIAA or DRM menace move out off the way?why hurt a free movement?

DO U support India to be in British Raj again?I felt exactly the same with DRM etched on to our Softwares and hardwares.It is DRM which is ruling U,not Ur freedom.and the best way acc. to propreitory supporters is to accept DRM for limited freedom.Today they probed DRM,tomorrow what all things can they be able to do to captive propreitory supporters?


I can say that Free Software/OSS offers lot of job oppurtunities and assures that without propreitory software system the planet will thrive its journey with OPen Minds combinely develop and share there knowledge to reach better heights which the propreitory model can only dream.
RedHat is a company which makes and give services for FOSS softwares.they DO pay their programmers/devels the salary and perks like other companies.even afaik those individuals who make the world's biggest Free OS-Debian GNU/Linux makes money albeit they doing the service of packaging,developing,updating the Debian System in parallel too.
Another simple easy example is LAMP devels.do they do their job for free?they are paid well.
SO FLOSS means not full volunteer work for devels.it is their attitude which moves big projects like Debian going.when U understand the virtues of FLOSS by using these s/w in regular u get a better answer.
I posted those lines bcoz after using FLOSS and GNU/Linux,I felt my earlier usage of World's Best Propreitory OS made me a Luser.
sometime read below txt,may be a change in whole attitude can happen:

*www.newsforge.com/software/03/04/19/2128256.shtml?tid=11

[SIZE=-1] "What motivates people to participate in the open source community? Is it creativity, or what? There's a lot of work involved, and the remuneration must be minimal. What do open source developers do for a source of income?" These questions were recently asked on a journalists' email list I belong to. Here is an edited version of my reply: [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]
Creativity is an important factor, but it is far from the only reason programmers "participate in the open source community." [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]A majority of people who write open source code do it as part of their jobs. Apache was originally written and is still maintained primarily by network admins and programmers who need reliable, low-cost Web server software and believe it's better to pool their efforts than go it alone. Many Linux kernel improvements come from programmers who work for companies that depend on Linux in one way or another, ranging from small consulting firms up to multinationals like IBM, HP, and Computer Associates. Intel and AMD have helped the Linux kernel scale to multiple processors and support 64-bit CPUs. DARPA has partially funded development of the ReiserFS journaling file system (which I use) and has also provided support for OpenBSD and some OpenBSD-generated security features like OpenSSH (which I also use), but seems to have had some problems recently with public comments made by OpenBSD project leader Theo DeRaadt, and may withdraw some or all of its OpenBSD funding. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]There's also a substantial (growing) crowd working on free or open source software that is also the "base" for a commercial product. OpenOffice development is sponsored by Sun Microsystems, and OpenOffice is free, but Sun rolls OpenOffice improvements into pay-for StarOffice. MySQL is available either free or in a commercial version with added configuration tools and other proprietary bells and whistles, and at least half a dozen popular Web content management and ecommerce packages also fall into the dual-licensed, dual-branded category. Think of this as a formalized, legal version of the old Adobe marketing program, where Adobe winked at Photoshop "piracy" by home users and small-time graphics artists because they all got used to using it and, when they got jobs at companies with money, they all asked their bosses to buy Photoshop for them. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Academics also tend to be prolific open source producers. Astronomers write astronomy programs, engineers write engineering programs, economists write economics modeling programs. Naturally, most of this software is used for research in some way and is subject to peer review, so it is usually open source. Students, too, write open source code as practical exercises, and some of it is pretty darn good. [/SIZE]

 

[freebird]

“Commercial” is not the opposite of Free-Libre / Open Source Software (FLOSS)


that also is a good link for the protagonists of Propreitory System.Also a "Free" book for all:
*en.wikibooks.org/wiki/FLOSS_Concept_Booklet

 

[praka123]

From what I know, Linux means freedom as in free speach, not as in free beer, however what u r saying shows u mean linux as in Free beer

there are free beer also,which runs completely by Volunteer support and sponsorship-I left to point out-
it is Debian Project.

 

[gxsaurav]

@praka123

nice explanation.

But comon linux guys, whats going on here. Whats the poing of explaing all this here, we are discussing why Vista will run or fail not why Linux will run or Weather Linux coders get paid or not.

 

[tarey_g]

@tarey - You shud read this Who really writes linux and think again on ur statements in post #143!

Yes i have already read that , but is it practical to just kick propreitory system ? Not all software development can go this way . How will the companies survive who make their own software products from zero and sell it. Not every one is IBM from start, killing propreitory system is killing emerging small software development companies.

Open Source -
The program must include source code, and must allow distribution in source code as well as compiled form. Where some form of a product is not distributed with source code, there must be a well-publicized means of obtaining the source code for no more than a reasonable reproduction cost–preferably, downloading via the Internet without charge. The source code must be the preferred form in which a programmer would modify the program. Deliberately obfuscated source code is not allowed. Intermediate forms such as the output of a preprocessor or translator are not allowed.

If everything goes this way (according to praka123), then the basic freedom is gone. You have taken away the freedom of the programmer for not to share his code.
Open source can not be forced and neither it is practical to go all propreitory, we live in a society where everyone has choices he can make. Making everything open source according to parka123 can never work.
__________

DO U support India to be in British Raj again?I felt exactly the same with DRM etched on to our Softwares and hardwares.It is DRM which is ruling U,not Ur freedom.and the best way acc. to propreitory supporters is to accept DRM for limited freedom.Today they probed DRM,tomorrow what all things can they be able to do to captive propreitory supporters?

NO user can ever like DRM, so definitely dont count me in DRM lovers.
About the British Raj i dont know, people with your "Forcing people to follow what you think is right" mentality can bring it back for sure, with a mix of Hitlershahi.

 

[mediator]

Yes i have already read that , but is it practical to just kick propreitory system ? Not all software development can go this way . How will the companies survive who make their own software products from zero and sell it. Not every one is IBM from start, killing propreitory system is killing emerging small software development companies.

Yes, that a very tough decision actually! It needs to pondered over n over.
A small development company can develop proprietary software. But the target or the host of that software needs to be assured of the quality,reliabilty (i.e the code) of the software.

Microsoft apologises for serving malware
Norton found using rootkits! (use google)

How can one really trust a software if things as such can occur and go on unnoticed for a lotta time? As u know open-source doesn't necessarily means free software! So even if u develop Open-source software, then still u can earn money!

Neways this is a lil off-topic, but IMHO proprietary software also cant really give u that much bread becoz of piracy,cracks,reverse engineering etc! Here's a nice explanation from a commerce student.
So, if services is a big sector, and piracy in turn can help a company to popularise the product, then I guess open-source software can prove much more! In either ways, the companies will have to pay for the software to prove legality. And if there r honest citizens who respect laws, then they too will respect laws and pay for the software!

So if a person wants a software for free, then he'll get it for free defying any law that comes in between!

 

[nepcker]

Mac OS X is around 5438746329875643965 times better than any version of Vista. Mac OS X is much more advanced than any other OS, Vista included. Here are my sets of reasons why Vista sucks
1) It's just a late copy of Mac OS X.
2) All the "new" features in Vista was present in OS X for years.
3) Vista comes in ten versions:

1) Windows Vista Starter Edition
2) Windows Vista Home Basic Edition
3) Windows Vista Home Basic Upgrade
4) Windows Vista Home Premium Edition
5) Windows Vista Home Premium Upgrade
6) Windows Vista Business
7) Windows Vista Business Upgrade
8) Windows Vista Ultimate
9) Windows Vista Ultimate Upgrade
10) Windows Vista Enterprise Edition

Plus, there's the 32-bit and 64-bit versions. Theres only one version of OSX.

Why is Vist better? UAC? Guaranteed to make you tear every hair out of your head. Filp3D? A rip-off of OS X's Expose. Appearance? But OS X has had eye candy like this for years. Oh, Microsoft throws in a few enhancements. But Vista is still only an OS X clone — and a slightly inferior-looking one. Integrated Search? The Spotlight search engine does the same thing. Secure? Yeah, right. Gadgets? OS X had widgets for years.

But even as Vista falls short in features that have long been part of Mac OS X, it’s about to lag even farther behind. Because Mac OS X version 10.5 "Leopard" is right around the corner. And with it will come an even richer set of features to make your experience with the Mac easier and more amazing.

 

[praka123]

Half knowledge is very bad.I can rant here about Linux as u say with mac.i am leaving the thread to continue.

 

[aryayush]

nepcker, though I do agree with you that Mac OS X is superior to Vista, your reasons are pretty lame. The first and second one are the same reasons and the third one does not make Vista an inferior operating system. Yes, it makes it a complicated task to choose the right one for your needs, but that's about it.

And I do not want to go into the specifics of why Mac OS X is superior because it will be off-topic and will only start a flame war. (I cannot believe I just said that!)

 

[Aberforth]

Yes, it makes it a complicated task to choose the right one for your needs, but that's about it.
[/i]

If I were to look from my point of view, I would say having more choices is better, I can decide on one which suits my needs best. If Microsoft made it easier in this front by say having only Vista Ultimate, it would have put the customers at a disadvantage as there would be a lot of users who wouldn't mind paying less for Home Premium which suits almost all of their needs.

But even as Vista falls short in features that have long been part of Mac OS X, it’s about to lag even farther behind. Because Mac OS X version 10.5 "Leopard" is right around the corner. And with it will come an even richer set of features to make your experience with the Mac easier and more amazing.

I understand your fervour with Mac but it does not really compare with Vista. Vista would run on cheaper hardware than a Mac which are almost always available everywhere. Macs aren't that compatible with non-apple approved hardware and nor do you have the customisability to choose you budget if you have a low one. While a Vista can run with Aero Glass on a Rs.58000 laptop.

both DRM and propreitory system need to be &cked off from this planet.

I don't agree with DRM considering it is putting genuine users at a disadvantage rather than it's target. But the idea of no propriety software isn't very sensible, some of the best softwares are proprietary and money is a powerful motivator to make better and more powerful products. Recognition does not always work in all cases.

 

[aryayush]

If I were to look from my point of view, I would say having more choices is better, I can decide on one which suits my needs best. If Microsoft made it easier in this front by say having only Vista Ultimate, it would have put the customers at a disadvantage as there would be a lot of users who wouldn't mind paying less for Home Premium which suits almost all of their needs.

But if Vista Ultimate was a single version and cost about Rs. 8,000 - Rs. 9,000, I am sure you wouldn't have minded purchasing it. The max they should have done was to have two versions, the Home Basic and the full featured version. And the complicity is not just about choosing the right version, there are more things to consider. The upgrade version would require you to not only have the install disk of Windows XP, but also install XP first every time you want to re-install Windows Vista. Plus, the basic version does not allow virtualisation. There is a whole bunch of factors you have to consider before you decide which version you want to purchase.
Compare it to Mac OS X which comes in one single, full fledged (better than Vista) version at just Rs. 5,000 and comes pre-loaded even on the Rs. 33,000 Mac Mini. It comes at a discount if you are upgrading from a previous version but it does not require you to have the previous version installed nor does it require the install disk of the previous version. You can also jump several versions. And you can install it on more than ten year old Macs. To top it off, it does not require any serial number or activation while installation, nor does it install a validation software on your system and neither does it pester you with 'Cancel' or 'Allow' dialog boxes.
That, my dear friend, is convenience and simplicity - not to mention good customer service.

I understand your fervour with Mac but it does not really compare with Vista. Vista would run on cheaper hardware than a Mac which are almost always available everywhere. Macs aren't that compatible with non-apple approved hardware and nor do you have the customisability to choose you budget if you have a low one. While a Vista can run with Aero Glass on a Rs.58000 laptop.

Mac OS X runs on Rs. 60,000 MacBooks too, the full fledged system. It even runs on the Rs. 33,000 Mac Mini, for that matter.

 

[Aberforth]

But if Vista Ultimate was a single version and cost about Rs. 8,000 - Rs. 9,000, I am sure you wouldn't have minded purchasing it.

Maybe I wouldn't have minded. So far I have no plans on upgrading nor purchasing Vista seeing SUSE and Windows XP MCE suits me quite well. I could get a copy of OEM Windows Vista Ultimate for 70 pounds with the help of a British friend of mine. Technically it is legal and yet cheaper than the retail version of Windows Vista.

Mac OS X runs on Rs. 60,000 MacBooks too, the full fledged system. It even runs on the Rs. 33,000 Mac Mini, for that matter.

Well I don't intend to start another Mac vs Windows discussion, but hardware upgrading is still expensive for Macbook compared to PC Laptops. Moreover in the gaming and graphics front, Macbooks do not perform as well as PC laptops in the same price range as PC laptops have dedicated graphics cards installed. For a pleasure and normal home user who does not care if his/her computer does backflips as long as it gets the work done and is affordable, PC laptops are still the first choice. This is a firsthand experience, Macbook Pros are different matter as their price separates them quite some distance from the Rs. 60000 area.

 

[gxsaurav]

Mac OS X is around 5438746329875643965 times better than any version of Vista. Mac OS X is much more advanced than any other OS, Vista included. Here are my sets of reasons why Vista sucks
1) It's just a late copy of Mac OS X.
2) All the "new" features in Vista was present in OS X for years.
3) Vista comes in ten versions:
Quote:
1) Windows Vista Starter Edition
2) Windows Vista Home Basic Edition
3) Windows Vista Home Basic Upgrade
4) Windows Vista Home Premium Edition
5) Windows Vista Home Premium Upgrade
6) Windows Vista Business
7) Windows Vista Business Upgrade
Windows Vista Ultimate
9) Windows Vista Ultimate Upgrade
10) Windows Vista Enterprise Edition
Plus, there's the 32-bit and 64-bit versions. Theres only one version of OSX.

To run that one version of MacOS X you need a Apple Mac throwing your current PC into garbage. Don't forget to add it's cost.

Many versions, as abeforth said targets a large audience. Not everyone wants a MCE or Aero based UI, so why pay for it. It's good that MS has relesed so many version, now if only they could create awareness to tell the customar which version is right for them.

But if Vista Ultimate was a single version and cost about Rs. 8,000 - Rs. 9,000, I am sure you wouldn't have minded purchasing it

Yes, but you tell me, like I said above. Why pay for features that u do not need. In that case isn't home premium for less price a better option. It's nothing wrong in Vista having choices in so many forms. Don't compare it like MacOS X as nepcker said, MacOS run only on Apple hardware while Vista runs on so many hardware choices from so many Vendors.

The upgrade version would require you to not only have the install disk of Windows XP, but also install XP first every time you want to re-install Windows Vista.

This is what Upgrade means.

Plus, the basic version does not allow virtualisation

You can install VMWare on Vista basic & run it fine.

Compare it to Mac OS X which comes in one single, full fledged (better than Vista) version at just Rs. 5,000 and comes pre-loaded even on the Rs. 33,000 Mac Mini

Like I said above, you will need to buy a new Apple Mac to run it. so it's a total of Rs 38k

And you can install it on more than ten year old Macs

& can u run it properly on it? Andy's Mac mini doesn't have proper OpenGL 2.0 graphics & I doubt if it will support core animation.

it does not require any serial number or activation while installation

Cos you have already paid for the hardware. Why do u forget that

neither does it pester you with 'Cancel' or 'Allow' dialog boxes

it better to bug a user then to let him screw his computer

It even runs on the Rs. 33,000 Mac Mini, for that matter

you are not adding the cost of other components like Monitor keyboard, mouse, speakers, cam etc. It will easily cross 40k then

 

[tarey_g]

Thread again heading towards BS.