The ultimate shootout: Apple Mac OS X vs. Microsoft Windows Vista

[legolas]

did u just say i am an idiot jk...

even Apple and Microsoft themselves will not indulge in this fight, were there to be a debate!

in my views, the only thing i am interested in is that the OS i use should supply softwares that I use excessively.

1) Tex typsetting tool (available in windows, MAC, Linux)
2) Fritz chess program (windows alone to my knowledge, u shud use wine to work on linux, but not yet done)
3) chessmaster (same reasons)
4) Visual thesaurus (awesome english vocabulary tool. I just cant live without it. I tried installing in linux using wine, couldn't)
5) Microsoft office (Mac also has it. And i dont have to point out the buggy installation using crossover office in linux)
6) visual studio (for MFC in VC++). (i dont know abt mac). I can alternatively learn openGL... I am just lazy to learn another totally new graphics related package...

I totally would go with linux if I can get to use these/equivalent (by standards) in it...

And, like it or not, iPod and iTunes SUCK. i invested 280Euros for an 80GB iPod to use only mp3 and mp4 format. Are you out of your mind? They must be crazy... Why wont they allow all formats??? FLAC is inadmissible, wav, avi every other format.. f**king waste of time and money...

Also, IMHO, MAC notebooks are definitely costlier than any other (even Sony Vaio), for the same configuration. I searched for 3 months reading magazine reviews, going to shops and enquiring the rates, analyzing the best deals... Apple MAC was never even close to cutting a deal!! Even this Apple Airbook, 1500$ for a slimmer notebook with no optical drive with a WIFI to connect to other PCs to install any program and only 2 USB ports!! But they already have mentioned that its useful for business ppl who travel in flights more often... (bla bla)... They mask the disadvantages with an innovative concept everytime!! business lunatics!
"Fool me once Shame on you Fool me twice Shame on me"

take it easy,

 

[iMav]

finally we are beginning to get more sane views here .... ipod a waste of money iv been saying ever since i plugged it into my pc (30gig video) and apple machines absolutely no vfm

and mac book air the only comment that theyv got for u is "its not for u" el jobso even said that too nyt if im not wrong

 

[legolas]

"its not for you" lolzzzzzzzzzz yeah..

 

[goobimama]

And, like it or not, iPod and iTunes SUCK. i invested 280Euros for an 80GB iPod to use only mp3 and mp4 format. Are you out of your mind? They must be crazy... Why wont they allow all formats??? FLAC is inadmissible, wav, avi every other format.. f**king waste of time and money...

Also, IMHO, MAC notebooks are definitely costlier than any other (even Sony Vaio), for the same configuration. I searched for 3 months reading magazine reviews, going to shops and enquiring the rates, analyzing the best deals... Apple MAC was never even close to cutting a deal!! Even this Apple Airbook, 1500$ for a slimmer notebook with no optical drive with a WIFI to connect to other PCs to install any program and only 2 USB ports!! But they already have mentioned that its useful for business ppl who travel in flights more often... (bla bla)... They mask the disadvantages with an innovative concept everytime!! business lunatics!
"Fool me once Shame on you Fool me twice Shame on me"

take it easy,

First of all it is Mac. MAC stands for Media Access Control, a networking term. It's also a dead giveaway that the person has no idea about Mac OS X.

Like it or not iPod and iTunes such? Seriously? Millions of people can't be wrong. The iPod+iTunes win because of the simplicity. Geeks should definitely look elsewhere for customizing the cr@p out of a music player. As for iTunes sucking, it might be due to your experience with the one on windows. It's slow, resource hungry, and there's nothing 'other' than iTunes. iTunes for mac is a sort of a way of managing your media. It's integrated throughout the OS. Something that Windows and Linux lack to the fullest.

As for mac notebooks being costlier, yes, but only a bit. As for they being VFM, indeed they are. They come with the most advanced OS + iLife. The best warranty and support. And stunning build quality. Sounds like an advert I know, but it's true.

As for the Macbook Air, it's a given that it's not for everybody.

 

[legolas]

I am sorry for the Typo in an effort to emphasize. your orthography skills are exquisite and un-combattable.

I just need a reason for "Why only mp3,mp4?" And its not a music player... it doesn't play it in any format.. its mp3/mp4 player. oops, did u just give up ur orthographical interests??

Well, even windows is one of the most used OS in spite of the allegations the MAC (oops!!) Mac ppl and the ones from linux make...it doesn't prove that it is the best!!

more ppl -> best, is illogical. it just proves Apple's business tactics into brainwashing for a crap with its eye-candiness!!

only a bit?? come on now... what does that bit mean? 1$?? most advanced OS?? are you kidding me??

does it do distributed computing or what?? I have also used Mac (not laptops). iLife -> Illusion

Warranty -> no idea if its the best
Support -> Unquestionably The BEST

your terms "stunning build","adanced OS","iLife" just seems like another Apple Ad to me. May be, you should try their advertising section! jk

take it easy.

 

[MetalheadGautham]

First of all it is Mac. MAC stands for Media Access Control, a networking term. It's also a dead giveaway that the person has no idea about Mac OS X.

Like it or not iPod and iTunes such? Seriously? Millions of people can't be wrong. The iPod+iTunes win because of the simplicity. Geeks should definitely look elsewhere for customizing the cr@p out of a music player. As for iTunes sucking, it might be due to your experience with the one on windows. It's slow, resource hungry, and there's nothing 'other' than iTunes. iTunes for mac is a sort of a way of managing your media. It's integrated throughout the OS. Something that Windows and Linux lack to the fullest.

As for mac notebooks being costlier, yes, but only a bit. As for they being VFM, indeed they are. They come with the most advanced OS + iLife. The best warranty and support. And stunning build quality. Sounds like an advert I know, but it's true.

As for the Macbook Air, it's a given that it's not for everybody.

1. Firstly, about MAC and Mac, how in the name of dennis ritchie do you think everybody would be aware of an OS as difficult to access as Aple OSX ?

2. linux is a kernel for heaven's sake. Don't make me compare the darwin kernel to linux kernel now

3. regarding your media management in iTunes, as I said, Linux is for smart guys. So you are provided all the tools you need here. Just make something yourself that makes you comfortable. You preinstalled fans may find it hard to grasp, startling, and extreme, but its really easy. Linux is all about smartness and learning to do things yourself. A Media "Management" software would completely undo this meaning most of the time, and so will a GUI, hence many distributions come with the bare essentials only. Its really fun to configure things yourself and enjoy the fruits of your own labour, as despite being easy, it gives a sence of satisfaction.

4. Macs only a "bit" costlier ? I beg to differ. Your iLife costs 3.8K. Even if I add that money to the cost of a non apple machine, I will still save a lot of money.

5. macs VFM ? Thats the stupidest thing I have ever heard. Tell me, which configuration are you talking about ? Unless you are talking about Alienware Vs. Mac Pro, both of which are rip offs, you can hardly say that Macs are VFM. They are far from it. Even in US, they are nowhere near VFM. If I got Macs for about half their current prices in India, I might call them good VFM, but definitely not now.

6. Those other "extra' stuff you say we get from macs are not enough to call a mac VFM. I thought even Apple users knew that Apple != VFM.

7. MacBook Air Not For Everybody ? Ofcource its not. There is hardly a market for it when it comes to actual utility. Its utility is almost zero on average for most people.

Please Understand This: The only reason people go for apple hardware is because of Apple's rather good iLife Suite. Without it, there is hardly a reason to buy a Mac. There are other software too, but most have windows/linux alternatives. As for the UI, yes, I agree, that just like the *Idiot-Friendly* Asus Eee PC's UI was a major selling point, this too is a good marketing point. But its not a buying point.

@legolas: I only said that linux is not for *anyone* to use. Its made by certain people for use by like minded people, but its advantage is that, as proved by the Asus Eee PC, even Linux can be idiot friendly, but no window designer is going to bother with that when there are better things like functionality to worry about.

About MacBook Air:

Its Not For You... So what ? You are not showed that book up your face and asked to purchase it. It might not have utitlity as far as you are concerned, but why b!tch it? Several companies make products to break workd records in their labs. Intel made an 80 core processor, that cost 10 times the cost of 80 dual core processors to make. They made it for the sake of making it, and not for sale, which if offered, may have brought nothing at all to them. But Apple took a step further. They decided to offer one such a product for sale. Steve jobbs is an experimental kid of guy. Let him do what he wants, as long as it doesn't affect us. Why should you guys bother about it ?

About Idiot Friendliness:

Infact, even BSD, one of the geekiest OSes alive today, can be idiot friendly. Your RichBoy's favourite OS, Mac, is a living example for that. It was made out of FreeBSD's Code. And your Safari was made from Konqueror's code. Also, don't believe n00bs who preach that AAC was apple's codec, called Apple Audio Codec or something. Its made by the MPEG but adopted by apple. So is FireWire. Apple just use plain common sence in borrowing what ever is the best and building on it.

 

[goobimama]

Okay I had to check wikipedia for orthography, nice word.

As for only using Mp3/AAC, well, Mp3 is an industry standard, and aac is their own proprietory format. AAC supports lossless audio, so that takes care of flac, wav and all others. I am personally yet to come across another file format in my day to day usage.

Now the question about avi or mp4 is an important one. While mp4 is superior, avi (xvid/divx) is more commonplace and should have been allowed to be played on the iPods.

As for Apple being expensive, give me a link for a sony laptop with the same specs as a Macbook Pro. The lowest you will get will be at around $1700 or so. That too with a crappy display, tons of crapware, and not to mention the horrible trackpads that PC notebooks come with.

As for iLife, you can just use it for a minute and say it's useless. There has to be some time to get into the flow. After that, it truly lives up to it's name.

 

[legolas]

@MetalHeadGautam,
I knew exactly what you meant reg. Linux. I use Linux and Windows (for the reason I mentioned earlier). I was just joking.
Its not for you Even then, my concerns are (for argument sake) regarding the price for that air book, which is why I insist on ridiculing the Apple's tactical deals of masking all the disadvantages with the only good thing "slim" in the laptop. To sum up, strategy is adapted by every company. Apple is the BEST!!

@goobimama,
I did have a "computer networking" course in my electronics engg. to understand the MAC Vs Mac. I should have written it as Mac instead of MAC. True.
Yes, reg. mp3 i accept what you say. but still, after paying 280 euros, why do you limit my options?

avi is older, i accept again, what about mkv? What did they think I am going to do with 80 GB?

As for Apple/Sony laptops, I have a Sony Vaio myself. So, I dont think I need to provide a link. Because, I settled for Vaio after not convinced with the price Vs configuration deal. If you insist, I will provide'em.

take it easy!

 

[praka123]

there are reasons unknown which makes mac users stick to it.may be eyecandy application superiority be one of them.

but NEVER say,mac is VFM
Linux,will be a better choice for those who want to experience *NIX platform especially with compiz-fusion enabled distros like fedora or ubuntu

 

[drgrudge]

^^
Eh?

I got my Mac for Rs 72k preinstalled with OS X, iLife and iWork. And a free 4GB iPod Nano. My friend is willing to buy my Mac for 75 grands. I gain 3 grands if I sell. Beat that if you buy a Windows PC.

Regarding iTunes, I was also *****ing that I was missing Foobar2000 but as I used it, it's OK. I'm starting to like it. Never used iTunes in Window, so dunno how it would be performing in a Windows.

A word about Idiot Friendliness. I see a lot of thread in OSS section "Newbie to Linux", "MetalHeadGautam Ubuntu queries" , "Trying & Learning Ubuntu. My Query Thread" , "Calling all Linux Experts: I've got a million questions... ", etc... the learning curve is pretty steep in *nix. Do you see such things in the Apple Mac thread? Goobimama was there to help me when I first used my Mac but I just had a few questions here and there.

Also for simple things you guys seem to use terminal/command line. Yeah, I'm **** scared of it but I don't miss anything. In the end, you are doing what others are doing with their PCs.

You guys have to use a Mac for 2 weeks or so. Once a Mac user, always a Mac user.

 

[legolas]

wait a minute, your friend knows you bought your mac for 72k and still he is willing to get it for 75k? is he in need of a laptop? sony vaio?? :d

even if he is not interested in sony vaio, tell me what he wants, i will buy it for some amt and add 50 euros and sell it to him... This is 1000 times better than fluctuating share markets! lol

 

[drgrudge]

You're comparing Vaio and a MacBook? Except for the design (without the gay stickers "Intel **** inside" or "Crapware capable"), you're looking at a different species. It's easy to differentiate milk and water.

 

[legolas]

My sony vaio wasn't the only proposal!

I can get anything (the best Mac too!!). If I can get +50 euros on resale value.. why wouldn't I??

Are you sure, this other friend of yours isn't your split personality? jk.

Anyways, What is different in the Mac book pro? They have Intel processor core duo, DDR2 Ram (2GB now), Nvidia card, firewire ports, usb ports, DVD writers, Webcam, 120/160 GB hardisk. I got all these for 1400 euros (still expensive compared to others), while Mac book pro was 1700 euros for lesser configuration... (both offered 1 GB at that time as maximum). I got it 1 year and 3 months back with 2 years warranty in Germany.
all these are the same. and you say, "except for the design"... so what else is significant in Mac books?

take it easy!

 

[infra_red_dude]

1. Firstly, about MAC and Mac, how in the name of dennis ritchie do you think everybody would be aware of an OS as difficult to access as Aple OSX ?

Offtopic: Of all ppl whydennis ritchie??!!!

3. regarding your media management in iTunes, as I said, Linux is for smart guys. So you are provided all the tools you need here. Just make something yourself that makes you comfortable. You preinstalled fans may find it hard to grasp, startling, and extreme, but its really easy. Linux is all about smartness and learning to do things yourself. A Media "Management" software would completely undo this meaning most of the time, and so will a GUI, hence many distributions come with the bare essentials only.

Lets face it! Linux is not for Pros in multimedia. It is just not ready yet. A person who has spent years learning something like Premire or of the likes (basically from the multimedia stream) won't read documentations and compile stuff by him. Or rather even download a binary package and instlal it. This applies even to the average, not-so-code-monkey user.

So what does he need? He needs a computer which is fast, doesn't bother him with OS and drivers install, which has one click install for these kindsa stuff and has everything readymade. Would you call him an idiot or retard just coz he can't read the docs and compile by himself???

He will surely settle for Mac. Why? 1) Apple optimizes the OS for its hardware since both are built by them. 2) It comes preloaded with OS and drivers so no probs regarding finding that "tweaked driver" which will give him those "extra frame rate" 3) He just uses the .dmg images to install. 4) He doesn't wanna be bothered about updating his "anti-virus" and stuff.

So for a person like him those "extra grands" about which we crib about is recovered by getting these things by default. Yes, for a home user Macs are costly, since we are so used to getting the "free version of Windows". I'm not justifying the cost of Macs but trying to ponder over the piont, why would a Pro prefer Mac over others.

So when it comes to Linux, companies don't wanna spend time and money on developing something which they may not be sure of being used by the whole community and people will not adopt Linux just coz these multimedia software don't exist for this OS. Its a deadlock!!! So what is the solution?

Its really fun to configure things yourself and enjoy the fruits of your own labour, as despite being easy, it gives a sence of satisfaction.

Agreed! Cent-per-cent true And sometimes that can even go upto the extent of beating the satisfaction when getting laid!!

Please Understand This: The only reason people go for apple hardware is because of Apple's rather good iLife Suite. Without it, there is hardly a reason to buy a Mac. There are other software too, but most have windows/linux alternatives.

What are you saying man!!! People buy Macs for iLife??!!

...even Linux can be idiot friendly, but no window designer is going to bother with that when there are better things like functionality to worry about.

Excuse me.. but I am on a mission to haf a good default UI for Linux! Its that at least one of the interface designers is bothered but the people in the development team don't give a damn about it! And that is what I am sad about This approach is definitely not going to help anyone!

About Idiot Friendliness:

Infact, even BSD, one of the geekiest OSes alive today, can be idiot friendly.

Correct! What is idiot-friendliness??? Install FreeBSD or Gentoo on your hardware, install all drivers, all codecs, plugins, throw in a good looking UI and there this is one of the most idiot-friendly computer!!

It all boils down to hardware, drivers, commonly used pre-installed packages and with all these even something like SourceMage (heard about it??? its one of those "darker" distros!) can be the most idiot friendly distro!

 

[drgrudge]

legolas -
Ohh yeah. Let me see...

- MacBook Pro features LED backlit screen. The screen is stunning and environment friendly. Honestly I'm yet to come across a better screen in a Laptop.

- Apple Remote. I don't it (the remote) comes with Vaio. 6 keys and beautiful. You can control FrontRow/AppleTV, Keynote and apps (with a help of another software)

- Also being one inch thin (less than the size of 3 CDs stacked together) and 5.4 and 6.8 pounds, respectively, the 15 and 17″MacBook Pro models are among the thinnest, lightest notebooks. I'm not comparing the Ultra thin segments.

- Keyboard backlit. Looks stunning and I make good use of it. If you're staying in Hostel, Aircraft or Sharing accomodation, you'll understand it's use.

- The best Trackpad. It can detect if you have one finger or two (when we do the right click and scrolling) and it ignores unintended touches. Now with the MBA, we're seeing iPhone like functionality. Guess it might come to MacBooks/Pro as well. Almost all of the Windows PC trackpad are bad and becomes smooth with 3-4 months of usage...

 

[iMav]

grudgy please do not use dell as a standard for windows based lappies

 

[legolas]

I accede to the points 1,2,4. They are really cool features. Especially point 1. I just read some reviews. I totally agree. Personally, I don't see a point to use remote for laptop... Still its worthy if it comes along. Keyboard backlit, also a really cool feature.

best trackpad -> i really dont see a point... as i have had no problems so far.


But, look at this. I just configured a Mac Book pro 15 inch with 2.1 Ghz processor, 4GB ram and 250GB hardisk (it was the maximum) and it came to 2924$ (nothing else changed from the default 1999$, memory from 2 to 4GB was 700$ and hardisk from 120 to 250 was 250$)

Now the sony configuration.

1) Monitor LCD only -> not as good as Mac's agreed. sony intel processor 2.1 Ghz ( of course core 2 duo with L2 = 3MB cache). Apple doesnt tell anything abt L2... so, i don't know.
2) 300 GB hardisk
3) comes with 4GB (2 * 2GB installed)
4) 6.1 lbs -> Unaltered Mac 5.4 lbs, may be with RAM and hardisk, it comes to max of 5.6 lbs or 5.7 ( still better)
5) Blueray read/record along with DVD writer
6) Video Ram 256MB -> Apple 128 MB (for the configuration I clicked)
7) monitor resolution sony 1280*800 < 1400*900 Mac

price: Sony 2200$
Apple: 2900$

Somehow, I dont see a good compromise for the eye-candy screen they provide... Its the only catchy feature here... because, the weight is not going to be a problem most of the times... you are not working by carrying it in ur hands...

Mac has real cool features. But still its not worth the price they offer is my claim! I am really impressed with the LED backlit display and its advantages, but it is not worth the 700$!


Edit:

I just saw this another configuration. This also is worthy of comparison.

Apple MacBook 17 Inch with 4GB Ram and 250 GB hardisk (again its the max) and processor 2.4Ghz (default) with monitor (default)... everything else default for that matter is 3650$

Now Sony Vaio:

1) 17 inches, 2.5 GHz core 2 Duo Intel, L2 6MB Cache (Apple not specified)
2) 1080p HD resolution (1900*1200) against 1680*1050 (Mac)
3) Blueray read/record, also DVD and CD capable
4) 4GB (2*2GB)
5) Nvidia Graphics card -> 512 MB in sony, 256 MB in Mac
6) 400 GB (2 * 200 GB) against 250 GB
7) 8.4 lbs > Mac obviously
Other things including camera, bluetooth, Lan, Wlan co-exist. not discussing abt those.

Sony price: 3300$

Now, advantages in Mac, display and weight. But if you notice sony vaio's here, the resolution is higher with 1080p resolution...

If you compare the offers from sony in this regard with blueray, 512 graphics, 400 GB.. I would rather live with out the remote and keyboard which lits when there is dim light... (I have really not found any difficulty in typing in absence of light for the monitor sheds the light on keyboard even then)....

Again... Mac has cool features.. Is it worth the price??? for that crappy configuration with cool monitor is it worth the 350$??
It comes to 3750$ (extra 100$) for the highest resolution, 1900*1200 (i guess). (in which case the difference is 450$).

Question: What does Mac's Superdrive mean??? Is it something other than a DVD drive?

Now, are you saying windows is so much screwed up that even with this configuration, Mac OS X will still be faster??

Regarding MBA iphone like functionality, it looks stupid to me because, for browsing thro pictures as we do in iPhone, you have to place 3 fingers it seems... Whats with these number of fingers to be placed on the touchpad..??

 

[goobimama]

but NEVER say,mac is VFM

What the! What exactly is value for money? Is it the 'cheapest'? No. Value for money means you get what you pay for. And in the case of the Mac, it totally is. I would be hard pressed to find a desktop that is completely silent (yeah, my external drive makes a noise while the iMac is dead silent). It has yet to crash on me. No viruses. No configuration (yeah, it's fun in the good ol' days, but when it comes to work, configuration means money wasted) and so many other things. VFM all the way.

the vaio thing

My friend went to the States. Asked me what laptop to buy. I say Macbook Pro. He buys a vaio. Comes back to find out it cannot run XP. Sony has made it very difficult to run XP. A lot of his sound software doesn't run properly in Vista. The trackpad is horrible. The display is just WXGA (1280*900) for a 15.4" display. Now that's bad (and very common among sony laptops). He sells his Vaio. Going back to the states. Will pick up a Macbook Pro.

wait a minute, your friend knows you bought your mac for 72k and still he is willing to get it for 75k?

A Macbook Pro costs 1.04lac in India. So 75k is a pretty sweet deal.

Now what's this thing about Linux boys thinking that the Mac is only about eye candy? So they all they brag about is compiz fusion and beryl an whatnot. It's not about burning windows down. It's not about making the desktop feel like jelly. That's not productive. It's distracting. You know, my Windows XP windows also go like jelly when I don't install display drivers.

Yes, reg. mp3 i accept what you say. but still, after paying 280 euros, why do you limit my options?
avi is older, i accept again, what about mkv? What did they think I am going to do with 80 GB?

What's the problem with Mp3? The only other format that could be sort of common is WMV, and that plain sucks. So they have a lossless format for ripping CDs. The most common format, Mp3. And AAC which has better compression than Mp3, but is for forced upon.

As for MKV, that is plainly a format for pirated content. Also, it's basically an open source copy of h264 which the Ipod plays pretty well. Sure, it's just the means and should not be tagged as an end, but that's the reality. And Apple has to play nice to all the music/movie studios out there.

I configured

Oh please. Don't do the upgrades from Apple! Everyone knows that Apple overcharges for RAM and Hard drives. That is like just plain stupid to do so!

 

[legolas]

MKV is for Pirated content :-O I am surprised. Open source means for pirated content?? I dont understand your point.

How else do you suggest I get the price for the same configuration for Mac. Could you please tell me the rates you would buy for the configuration I mentioned.

Sony Vaio's track pad is bad??? Holy crap!! I think you would say everything and anything to prove ur point reg. Mac.
Sony laptop has nothing to do with drivers for XP. I used XP before I switched to Vista too. Even ppl who bought along with Vista have switched to XP here in Germany... Nobody have faced the problems you have mentioned...

So, let me get this straight, Drgrudge gets a Mac for 72k. But the same configuration is available for 1.04L in India. So, his friend agrees to pay 75k for the Mac? Does this make sense? btw, i dont think he mentioned a Mac laptop???

reg. iPod, mp3 is standard. Its not lossless. besides, I decide what format I need to put. They dont advertise it as mp3 player... If that is the case as say a creative mp3 player or something like that I accept... for 280 Euros, I get a junk which can play only mp3/mp4 and everytime i have to see a movie or tvshow, i have to convert to mp4!

 

[iMav]

driver issues compatibility issues are just over hyped to show vista in bad light inspite of coming out with beta after beta software developers couldnt port their apps to vista so its vista fault acc to every 1

and trackpad being bad u will find not more than 5 people on this forum who will say that because they have already bought a lac+ machines so it has to be better u know costlier means better logic