The Photography Thread

raja manuel

In the zone
But i thought the triad of photoreceptive sites on a camera sensor capture both light intensity and color information.
Yes or No, depending on whom you ask - I would say No :)

The photosites only count photons by generating a current whose voltage(?) is analogous to the number of photons it receives. The Bayer matrix of filters in front of each photosite only allow Red, Green, or Blue light to hit the photosites but the sensor still only counts the photons of light that it receives. It has no way of knowing the colour of the light because it does not register the wavelength. It is the demosaicing algorithm that knows which photosite is receiving R,G, or B light and it synthesises the full RGB value for each pixel based on this information. So colour is the responsibility of the algorithm. The Leica M Monochrom does not have a colour filter matrix and does not require demosaicing, producing pure monochrome images from the sensor. This means that the techniques we usually use to process B&W images from colour images, such as colour filtering and mixing, are not possible. Actual colour filters will have to used in front of the lens. This is why I believe that the sensor does not register wavelength and colours are only synthesised.

The test will definitely be interesting but the reason I'm being pedantic about Hue vs. Saturation or Value is that you can wash out an image by lowering contrast which, based on my understanding, is an issue with Value not Hue (or else it wouldn't work on B&W images). So when we test for colour, what exactly are we testing for?
 

CRACING

Journeyman
New shots of a new flower from my 35mm lens.

This is one of flower that tests my patience because its so hard to focus. Either I get focus on petals or stigma. To get whole flower in focus, I need to choice small aperture and keep more distance between sensor and flower but then background gets more visible and flower doesn't look standout. I have selected 4 best shots out of dozens. Hope you guys like these.

@F/1.8
*c8.staticflickr.com/8/7503/27837435535_59f4255253_c.jpg

@F/2.8
*c1.staticflickr.com/8/7241/27803028296_65779a4101_c.jpg

@F/3.5
*c8.staticflickr.com/8/7657/27761493111_dc7efb8074_c.jpg

@F/5.6
*c2.staticflickr.com/8/7429/27837447585_c53f3ba127_c.jpg
 

izzikio_rage

Technomancer
[MENTION=133607]raja[/MENTION]. Wow... That made me research the hell out of the whole sensor working.

Will give it a shot sometime. I think the contrast thing is true since any internal reflection, light leakage, reflection off the glass will muddle the image. Imagine a set if pixels were supposed to get pure red light. So the filter would allow this to only the red sensors. This is the perfect condition. However the reflection causes some amount of blue and green to creep in giving these pixels a mixed color and screwing up what the camera interprets this color as. Giving you a not so true red in the final image. The same would be true of dark spots in the image as well. You would lose out on how much difference there is in the light and dark areas thus a washed out image.

This is my interpretation, could be way off
[MENTION=322858]CRACING[/MENTION]: awesome stuff with the new lens. Find a good high spot at night and try some cool landscapes with this as well.
 

sujoyp

Grand Master
@amlan ...landscape with 35mm 1.8 ?? why...if I need to shoot at f8 at a long exposure 10 sec whats the use of f1.8 lens here...18-55 will be better . and if you are saying take a landscape shot at f1.8, which can be done. But we can have long exposure for night scapes, why f1.8
 

izzikio_rage

Technomancer
@amlan ...landscape with 35mm 1.8 ?? why...if I need to shoot at f8 at a long exposure 10 sec whats the use of f1.8 lens here...18-55 will be better . and if you are saying take a landscape shot at f1.8, which can be done. But we can have long exposure for night scapes, why f1.8
Milkyway shots or star trails

@medico... Very very cool
 

raja manuel

In the zone
@raja . Wow... That made me research the hell out of the whole sensor working.

First of all... you guys are still tagging the wrong Raja :)

Will give it a shot sometime. I think the contrast thing is true since any internal reflection, light leakage, reflection off the glass will muddle the image. Imagine a set if pixels were supposed to get pure red light. So the filter would allow this to only the red sensors. This is the perfect condition. However the reflection causes some amount of blue and green to creep in giving these pixels a mixed color and screwing up what the camera interprets this color as. Giving you a not so true red in the final image.

a) If any green or blue light creeps into a photosite that is supposed to receive only red, the colour filter in front of the photosite is supposed to block the green and blue light and only allow the red light through. If it doesn't, that is a case of a defective colour matrix. You can imagine what havoc such a defective matrix would cause in the vast majority of cases where a mixture of R,G, and B light correctly reaches the array and it then filters them incorrectly.
b) Even if it does allow green and blue light through, the sensor still doesn't know that it has received green and blue light. It still only counts photons and the demosaicing algorithm behind it still thinks that what it has received is pure red. What happens is that an incorrect number of photons is counted, which I think registers as wrong Value, not wrong Hue i.e., the red will be brighter but still red. I admit that the issue gets very muddled here as changes to brightness, contrast, and saturation will cause colour shift in standard RGB colour space, which is why RawTherapee allows us to adjust these parameters in L*a*b and CIECAM02 colour space to avoid such shifts. Of course demosaicing algorithms do cause some smearing of detail (wich is why the Leica M is supposed to be so sharp) because they are creating individual pixels from multiple photosites, but I don't know if the same applies to colour. Even if it does that is still a demosaicing issue. And there could be a difference here between camera generated JPGs and raws that are separately processed in alternate colour spaces.

But I'm getting way over my head here. My argument assumes that colour filters are near perfect which may not be true in reality. On the other hand I don't know if demosaicing algorithms compensate for imperfect arrays using some tolerance level; I don't see why they shouldn't, especially as each camera model has its own colour profile, and the user can create colour profiles for each individual camera/lens/light combination if they wish to.

So TL;DR version is I don't know, but I'm still not convinced that the lens plays any significant role in Hue when the sensor does not see Hue. And I don't even want to touch the topic of screen and printer calibration which may play a much bigger role in colour rendering.

The same would be true of dark spots in the image as well. You would lose out on how much difference there is in the light and dark areas thus a washed out image.
Yeah, but that is not a Hue issue. Difference between light and dark is a Contrast issue. It is the amount of light, and not the wavelength, that makes the difference. That is why B&W photography is so dependant on the contrast of the images.

And I will repeat that I'm going way beyond my knowledge zone here and trying to figure this out purely on logic which may not be correct.
 

izzikio_rage

Technomancer
point taken ... guess that experiment is in order. Will let you know how it goes.


Lets hope that other raja also joins the conversation
 
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CRACING

Journeyman
Today I have a firecracker flower.

*c1.staticflickr.com/8/7374/27796857312_a875176ea1_c.jpg
*c3.staticflickr.com/8/7368/27619757490_81acc59cc5_c.jpg

And a multi colored Cat, not mine though otherwise I would have taken the shot on nice location. Notice the clarity of 35mm lens. Please excuse for dirty ground.

*c5.staticflickr.com/8/7289/27620286860_0fa4c7c359_c.jpg
 

izzikio_rage

Technomancer
Finally got my set of extension tubes today. The set is quite cool, about $8 for a 7mm, 14mm and 28mm tube. Lets you get crazy close. Used this with my Helios lens to get some trial shots today

*c7.staticflickr.com/8/7786/27620980830_09d9db58aa_c.jpg
Climbing by Amlan Mathur, on Flickr

*c1.staticflickr.com/8/7252/27861804816_ca7108f734_c.jpg
Small rides by Amlan Mathur, on Flickr
 

sujoyp

Grand Master
8$ is costly...its without glass ..right? I brought it cheaper from ebay india long time back...
btw ET are not easy to use...and need lot of practice to get desired result..also need mounted flash to light up the subject
 

izzikio_rage

Technomancer
Yup, without glass. Most of the stuff on eBay
Was more than 1000. So this was the cheapest i could get.

Its not all that easy, what do i need to do to get better pics? Don't have an off cam flash
 

sujoyp

Grand Master
problem with manual ET like this is aperture control is not there..coz it will be far away from sensor...I usually didnt use the bigger part of the ET and used the smaller two joined togather with 50mm. I saw that inbuilt flash couldnot light up the subject coz the length of ET will put a shade on the subject soo close...and since we can not shoot at less then f5.6 for good focus it becomes very dark. High ISO is not the answer to that.
you will need a camera mounted flash to light up the macro subjects...but it should be used with diffuser on it and not naked.. Keep trying :)
I have used reverse ring, ET, macro filters, manual macro lens and now AF macro lens :D played with everything...I just wish to have a setup where I could use multiple flash form 3 side of the macro subject ;)

- - - Updated - - -

if you dont have an off camera flash then do some jugad so that you could redirect the flash light on front of the lens...some white sheet or some thermacol jugad ...see DIY sites you will find some answer
 

izzikio_rage

Technomancer
Awesome let me find a way to do this. All these shots seem to automatically go to ISO 3200 unless shot outside. So flash might be necessary.
 

nomad47

Cyborg Agent
Mumbai monsoon diaries

*c6.staticflickr.com/8/7646/27939789941_9c53032f07_k.jpgFinding way home by Tapash Goswami, on Flickr



*c2.staticflickr.com/8/7551/28017579465_eb2e589d6a_k.jpgMonsoon Love by Tapash Goswami, on Flickr


*c6.staticflickr.com/8/7615/27939728101_3c213c0a4f_k.jpgFerocity of Nature by Tapash Goswami, on Flickr
 

sujoyp

Grand Master
nice one...nice moments captured ;)

but beware, you can not put this on any compitition as it require a signed document from the person or model seen
 

nomad47

Cyborg Agent
nice one...nice moments captured ;)

but beware, you can not put this on any compitition as it require a signed document from the person or model seen
Thanks. I did not knew that.

Anyways this is a personal hobby. One of the guys asked me if these were for any ads. ;)
 
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