The ISEET Discussion Thread

[KDroid]

This thread is for discussion on the proposed New single entrance Exam pattern for Entrance into Engineering Colleges.

Apparently, the probability of this pattern being implemented from the next year are very high. The proposed name is ISEET - Indian Science Engineering Eligibility Test.

ISEET 2013 : Indian Science Engineering Eligibility Test

1. Combined entrance exam in place of IIT JEE & AIEEE

2. ISEET will have two parts, Main and Advance, each of three hours duration. Both tests will be given on the same day; between 10 am and 5 pm. ISEET 2013 will be held in either March or April.

ISEET Main will be an objective type exam, and will test comprehension, critical thinking and logical reasoning. ISEET Advance will test problem-solving ability in basic science subjects. The two tests together will indicate a candidate's scholastic level and aptitude for science and engineering.

A student's performance in the Class 12 Board exam will be considered, with a weight not be less than 40 per cent of the total score. The combined weightage for ISEET Main and Advance will not be more than 60 per cent; however, the weightage given to Board scores can go up to 100 per cent.

It is for the individual educational institutions or the state government to decide on the weightage to be accorded to the scores in Class-XII, main and advance examination

3.The entrance test, to be conducted next year, will cover 15 Indian Institutes of Technology (IITs), 30 National Institutes of Technology (NITs), four Indian Institutes of Information Technology (IIITs), five Indian Institutes of Science Education and Research (IISERs) and few deemed universities which come under the purview of the HRD Ministry.Engineering colleges which take AIEEE score at present would take ISEET

Info Collected From Miscellaneous Sites:

Spoiler

No JEE, No AIEEE, the new test on the block is Indian Science Engineering Eligibility Test or (ISEET). Yes, that’s the new name for coveted JEE and AIEEE test which is conducted every year for admission into premium engineering colleges in the country.

For all the students who will be appearing for ISEET (Indian Science Engineering Eligibility test) in 2013, should know the following details about the exam:

1.In the first phase the examination will be conducted for admission into 15 IIT’s, 30 NIT’s(National Institute of technology ), 5 Indian Institute of Science education & Research, 4 IIIT’s, Indian Institute of science, Bangalore, Indian Institute of Engineering Science and Technology, Shibpur & North East Regional Institute of Science and Technology, Itanagar.
2.In the second phase which is in 2014, it is expected that the examination will be conducted for admission into all professional courses in engineering and science.
3.The ISEET test will be conducted twice in a year (April/May) and (November/December), which will allow candidates to get familiar with the exam pattern.
4.The ISEET sample papers will be made available on public domain by July 2012.

It is expected that the change of exam pattern will reduce pressure on students. The new pattern also gives 40% weight to board exam result which brings schools in the forefront pushing back the overt reliance on coaching institutes.

Right now students who wish to pursue engineering at undergraduate level have to take multiple entrance exams. This leads to a lot of burden on students in terms of the money, stress and time involved. Single entrance exam will be convenient as students no longer have to enquire, buy or fill forms for different exams.

At the moment the reaction from students and teachers is a mixed one. Some say that it will reduce stress on the students while others argue that the change in pattern will dilute the quality of students getting into the IIT’s, which is known for its brand and name. Right now it’s too early to judge the situation. Time will only tell if the change is for good or for the worse.

Source

Spoiler

The successor to the JEE and AIEEE — for long the gateways to India’s top engineering colleges including the IITs — will be called ISEET, the Indian Science Engineering Eligibility Test.

As reported by The Indian Express on January 31, the new, SAT-style exam comes into force in 2013. It will do away with multiple entrance examinations and reduce the stress levels of students.

ISEET will have two parts, Main and Advance, each of three hours duration. Both tests will be given on the same day, between 10 am and 5 pm. ISEET 2013 will be held in either March or April.

ISEET Main will be an objective type exam, and will test comprehension, critical thinking and logical reasoning. ISEET Advance will test problem-solving ability in basic science subjects. The two tests together will indicate a candidate’s scholastic level and aptitude for science and engineering.

A student’s performance in the Class 12 Board exam will be considered, with a weight not be less than 40 per cent of the total score. The combined weightage for ISEET Main and Advance will not be more than 60 per cent; however, the weightage given to Board scores can go up to 100 per cent.

Each state government or institute will be able to decide the specific weight it gives to Board, Main and Advance exam scores. A committee headed by Dr T Ramasami, secretary in the Department of Science & Technology, has demonstrated with the help of the Indian Statistical Institute that school scores across various Boards can be normalized through a statistical process.

ISEET will be conducted by CBSE. Further modalities will be worked out by an academic group headed by the director of IIT, Kanpur.

Source

Miscellaneous Images

Spoiler

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Latest News: A final decision is likely to be taken in the forthcoming conference of State Education Ministers which is likely to take place on February 22, 2012.

My Opinion: Normalizing 12th Board Marks across the country is a big challenge. It will result in Biases. Weightage should not be given to 12th class marks at all. That's the only change I want. Other than that, the proposed system is completely fair.

This pattern, if implemented, will surely lower the standards of Indian Institutes of Technology.

 

[skeletor]

Not perfect, but better than coaching wankfest.

Standard of Indian "engineering" education is well known.

 

[hjpotter92]

hmm, tbqh, since I got into a college, I think I don't care about it anymore.

 

[thatsashok]

whats wrong with the inclusion of Board marks weightage ?

 

[skeletor]

whats wrong with the inclusion of Board marks weightage ?

Different boards. Different syllabus. Different marking schemes.

 

[thatsashok]

yeah ... i forgot that almost.

But there was a proposal for uniform syllabus throughout nation. What happened to it ?

i guess they should implement that before ISEET

 

[pramudit]

Atleast it should not be implememented for next year, students in 11 & 12 who have joined coaching and private school will really suffer, even i done preparation in coaching & we havent done english or computer studies, we studied all by ourselves + objective approach of ans = subjective dabba gol and low marks and therefore even with good marks in competitive exam you dont get admission....

 

[thetechfreak]

i will appear in 2013. and it seems all experimentation is happening with our batch. first board was lifted now this?

also it seems last year 10 lakh stidents appeared AIEEE.
if this gets implemented what will happen to students like me. we compete against droppers even who do only entrance focussed study. lets see wht happens

 

[tkin]

40% weightage on board marks? That's just cr@p, its not standardized, different boards give different marks, the education minister should be thrown into a sea infested with sharks

 

[KDroid]

We have schools in India where teachers themselves help students cheat exams. This system will further encourage such malpractices.

i will appear in 2013. and it seems all experimentation is happening with our batch. first board was lifted now this?

Damn True!

 

[tkin]

The education system is becoming retarded like the us, in no time our students will become dull like americans, oh wait..........!!

 

[skeletor]

The education system is becoming retarded like the us, in no time our students will become dull like americans, oh wait..........!!

Not sure if serious. Or am I missing the sarcasm tags? Kindly clarify.

 

[tkin]

Not sure if serious. Or am I missing the sarcasm tags? Kindly clarify.

Meh, sarcasm.

But honestly this is really stupid, syllabus is different, question pattern different, marking system is different(when I gave 10th standard exam from wb board, the highest we got in arts subject were in 70s and mostly in the 60s, while students in ICSE got 90+ atleast, also we did not have part marking in maths), since the board exam is theoretical teachers will give different marks(suppose some teacher's wife ran away , no matter how ideal the teacher is, it will reflect in the answer sheets checked by him) and other issues, either change all exams to objective type, or do NOT use board marks.

 

[AcceleratorX]

40% weightage on board marks? That's just cr@p, its not standardized, different boards give different marks, the education minister should be thrown into a sea infested with sharks

This can be remedied by the following action: The board exam marks will only be taken into account if a person is applying for an institute in the same state as the board from which the candidate has passed. For out-of-state admissions, the board exam factor can be removed completely.

This solution will solve both issues because most students will prefer to study nearer to their homes and thus will give more attention to their board exams.

The only con is that in this case two separate scores will have to be calculated: one for the state and one for out-of-state, just like the current AIEEE.

But I'm sure a minister is having a laugh reading this suggestion of mine.

My thoughts are quoted below:

I said it then and I'm saying it again: These exams simply do not test aptitude. You cannot test "comprehension, critical thinking and logical reasoning" using objective type questions, because the human mind has infinite ways of thinking. Should I be forced to subscribe to one of four defined schools of thought as put forth in the paper? I'll give you just a few examples:

Newton would have been a failure at science if he had to decide the laws of motion based on multiple choice. "Band theory of solids" can be explained as a combination of atomic orbitals (physics) or by molecular orbital theory (chemistry). If I am approaching the problem as a physicist or chemist (since in this case, I can do both with some difficulty!), do I write my answer down on multiple choice? It's entirely possible that I am unable to answer the question satisfactorily because I have analyzed it as a chemist and the question has been put by a physicist and vice versa (This is, in fact, quite relevant in a field like thermodynamics - the analysis of a system and surroundings make different assumptions between physics and chemistry. Minor differences if you look at it, but enough to change an answer due to a difference in assumption).

(For the record: Molecular orbital can be defined as a linear or nonlinear combination of atomic orbitals. Chemical Engineering/Physical Chemistry fundamentals, and no, I'm not a Chemical Engineer).

It is important to note that an exam that strives to seek scientific aptitude must never penalize the student who thinks of the alternatives. Every entrance exam so far however has been guilty of doing this.

"Problem-solving ability" should take a distinct second seat to understanding the fundamentals, because in engineering, the practical thing that any engineer does is approximate. Nobody will calculate pi upto the nth digit or learn by rote every formula of integration (why do you think numerical methods were developed anyway?). It would not matter that you know the nth order integration if you are not knowing why this is required and what this is.

I think this exam does give less emphasis to problem solving than previous tests, but I feel that it is far more important to gauge how a candidate thinks rather than what are his answers.

My opinion is that some sections of this exam need to be made subjective type, or else it will penalize many hardworking, thinking students and thus will have direct impact on the quality of students entering these institutions.

I have no blog, no avenue to let these thoughts out and this is the only place I will be posting this. I'm not sure if anyone is reading carefully, but if you are, then thank you for your time in reading this lengthy post, and I hope someone will take my concerns into consideration.

For my fellow forum members, if you feel there's substance in my thoughts, then please do your bit and try to spread it around. I will be grateful.

 

[tkin]

This can be remedied by the following action: The board exam marks will only be taken into account if a person is applying for an institute in the same state as the board from which the candidate has passed. For out-of-state admissions, the board exam factor can be removed completely.

This solution will solve both issues because most students will prefer to study nearer to their homes and thus will give more attention to their board exams.

The only con is that in this case two separate scores will have to be calculated: one for the state and one for out-of-state, just like the current AIEEE.

But I'm sure a minister is having a laugh reading this suggestion of mine.

This creates one problem, what about ISCE and CBSE, these are all indian boards.

 

[AcceleratorX]

This creates one problem, what about ISCE and CBSE, these are all indian boards.

You are right in that this creates a problem for those boards. Perhaps the government can

1) Offer these students a reduced cutoff under all india quota like how they do for MBA admissions for candidates with work experience in order to compensate since these candidates will have no other option but to get enrolled in all India quota.

2) Allow these candidates' board scores to be factored in as the only board scores for the central universities of India, thus giving them an incentive.

The IITs/NITs are unlikely to place too much emphasis on board exam scores anyway, so there should be little bias for those institutes.

That way it's a win-win for almost everyone, but the fact is that you will never be able to satisfy 100% of the population. So the big gamble will be for the parents: Give your child a better shot for admission within the state, or a slightly better chance for a shot at a central university.

 

[KDroid]

But honestly this is really stupid, syllabus is different, question pattern different, marking system is different(when I gave 10th standard exam from wb board, the highest we got in arts subject were in 70s and mostly in the 60s, while students in ICSE got 90+ atleast, also we did not have part marking in maths).

This problem can be solved through percentile system.

since the board exam is theoretical teachers will give different marks(suppose some teacher's wife ran away , no matter how ideal the teacher is, it will reflect in the answer sheets checked by him) and other issues, either change all exams to objective type, or do NOT use board marks.

I don't think there's any solution for this thing. Curse your luck if you don't get good marks.

 

[tkin]

This problem can be solved through percentile system.



I don't think there's any solution for this thing. Curse your luck if you don't get good marks.

So now we are getting a seat in IITs by luck huh?? Why don't they just use a lottery system all together.

PS: Its used by a lot of schools kolkata(government), no merit test, just pure luck
So I didn't get a chance to join 4-5 government schools(free), and had to join a private school(not that I complain, its one of the best schools here, but it cot me 6k per year in fees), all of us paying taxes, then why this lottery di?

 

[KDroid]

^^ Unfair.


Indian Engineering is not at all research oriented. People want to join IITs because they'll get good salary packages. Hardly anyone really wants to get into research.

With several States opposed to single entrance test examination for admission to engineering colleges, the State Education Ministers’ meet on Wednesday could see fireworks on the issue. States like West Bengal and Tamil Nadu are likely to oppose the measures.

Expressing confidence that the differences will be sorted out amicably in the meet, HRD Minister Kapil Sibal said that 11 education boards across the country have already supported the move. “The rest will be taken on board during the meeting,” he said.


The Minister said that the Government would soon write to other education boards for their views. The proposed entrance test called the Indian Science - Engineering Eligibility Test (ISEET), is expected to be conducted in April/May in 2013. It will be in two parts — ISEET main and advance. As per the proposal, examinations will be of three-hour duration each and will both be held on the same day. Allaying the apprehensions of the experts, Sibal clarified that the main issue of “standardisation” of the Class XII marks across the boards has been settled by a formula devised by the Indian Statistical Institute. It has taken into account the results of the last five years and has come out with specific figures.

On the issue of disagreement of certain southern States as Tamil Nadu, the Minister quipped, “They are not averse. There was unanimity at the meeting of Central Advisory Board of Education committee and the States need to be persuaded and explained on the modus operandi of standardisation. In fact, this would give more representation to States in the IIT system,” he added.

Source

All students of IIT DELHI along with professors and alumnus protested against the scrapping of IIT-JEE and inclusion of 40% board marks in the new common entrance exam proposed by MHRD for all centrally funded engineering institutions. The protest was in the form of a CANDLE LIGHT MARCH which was attended by big crowds of students, the professors and the alumni of IIT DELHI. The protest was initiated by a group discussion among the students, professors and the alumni. The rally went through the whole campus. The students took pledge that if such policy is passed to ruin the education system of India, then thousands of students from all the IITs will go on Hunger Strike and will protest until the policy is withdrawn. Conclusion of the meeting was as follows:

1. The coaching business is going to increase.
2. The stress level on the students is going to increase significantly.
3. There is going to be fee hike in the private schools.
4. The rote learning and mugging tendency of the students is going to increase.
5. Students will enter with no fundamental and conceptual understanding of the subject which will create great difficulty for such students to adapt themselves in the system of IIT.
6. Standard of IIT is going to fall drastically.
7. There will be a kind of Board wise Reservation which will be an injustice with many students.​

 

[AcceleratorX]

I agree with all the points, but I also make the following notes regarding various points given by the meet:

1) If my method is followed above, the coaching business can be dealt a body blow, because if some questions are subjective and 200 students have similar answers with similar wording and lines of thinking, they can all be eliminated.
2) Stress levels were always going to increase. There's no going around it, it is a result of overpopulation and societal expectations. Going forward, I think expectations are going to change because there will be a lot more failure stories than success stories.
3) Fee hikes will always be around, but perhaps these institutes will try harder to induct quality teaching seeing how the game has reached another level now.
4) This will always increase. Our system has actively encouraged rote learning since the British Raj - it's virtually in our genes now! Kids today are so "smart", some can remember 300 pages off Resnick and Halliday (true story).
5) I'm sure the faculty of IITs will adapt their teaching methods to counter some changing trends. Times change and people will change with them.

I know that IIT's faculty are among the best in the country (in some cases, even internationally), I have a good amount of respect for them. And I am very sure they will adapt to the changing times.

6) I wasn't convinced to begin with, but to understand why this is happening, a little history is required. IITs, IISc, IISER, etc. were founded to give a chance for studies to young, intelligent, well-deserving, apt candidates. In those days the tests were simplistic and selection was more based on the qualities of the candidate himself rather than just scientific acumen.

As time evolved, these institutes became recruitment centers, where they select candidates based on how much he's got on a paper and where they make you grow up a ladder until you come off as a shining, polished product. These candidates are still good, flashy, smart, intelligent, highly qualified and hardworking. The problem is that they're too "targeted" now, too "commercial". And somewhere inside the old "shine" got lost (Note that the first IITians never started at a flashy job like today's graduates).

I would not worry about this change as this will never affect the placement or the reputation of the IITs (because these candidates are very intelligent and very successful). However, the purpose of selection has been lost forever.

A little note: I have no disrespect for IITians. You have seen that I say both good and bad things about them because those are my honest opinions.

What I always try to convey is: You see the IITians of today, and those from a while back, and you will definitely observe a difference between them. I have.