Should ganesh immersion be allowed??
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abhishekkulkarni
Journeyman
Absolutely not !!! It should be banned by law .
mediator
Technomancer
abhishekkulkarni said:
Here we go! We have a member who staunchly supports the ban. Fight Club begins now!
But saar after reading all previous posts wud u mind telling us atleast why it shud be banned?
I suggest u to quote all the points in previous posts of "ganesh immersion supporting" members and tell us why they r wrong! Please do so!
And one more thing its a religious matter! Why it shud be banned by LAW?? How come LAW thing comes in between?
led_shankar
In Shamful Mystery
@mediayor: well, you could say i jumpstarted it somewhat, no?
mediator
Technomancer
@led_shankar............Nah dood! A fightclub is started only when someone strongly opposes the suggested topic ! Till now we had members who opposed with vague reasons. But no one strongly said and that too in one line that "it shud be banned and thats it....keh diya bas keh diya!"....Huh!
But now we have a member who says so! But didnt give any argument for it at all !!
Lets hope this guy gives some strong arguments......keeping in mind all the previous posts and lets see how much he can entertain me!!!
But now we have a member who says so! But didnt give any argument for it at all !!
Lets hope this guy gives some strong arguments......keeping in mind all the previous posts and lets see how much he can entertain me!!!
led_shankar
In Shamful Mystery
um, I think he meant the immersion should be banned, not the religion. And besides, he does not need to have a religion to be anti-Hindu, does he?
kumarmohit
Technomancer
Cut it ppl See I told you earlier religion is not to be interefered by law in our ctry Its not constitutional so instead of banning immersion a regulation must be done on what the statues are made of; besides with POP a lot of earthenware workers have lost work. Stone and earth statues will allow them to get some business too.
Yamaraj
The Lord of Death
Immersion should be banned with immediate effect. Religion is not as important
as the existance and health of the people and rivers.
IMHO, religions and beliefs are private issues and people should keep them upto
themselves. They should never be allowed to interfere with laws or public health.
In fact, I think that an ideal Government shouldn't even recognize any religion
officially. And while we're at it, factories with no wastage management should
also be banned. Animal sacrifices should be banned too, ragardless of religions
or their supporters. Being a vegetarian, I also call for some sympathy towards
innocent animals and little birds. Spare the living being please, there'e enough
food now.
as the existance and health of the people and rivers.
IMHO, religions and beliefs are private issues and people should keep them upto
themselves. They should never be allowed to interfere with laws or public health.
In fact, I think that an ideal Government shouldn't even recognize any religion
officially. And while we're at it, factories with no wastage management should
also be banned. Animal sacrifices should be banned too, ragardless of religions
or their supporters. Being a vegetarian, I also call for some sympathy towards
innocent animals and little birds. Spare the living being please, there'e enough
food now.
led_shankar
In Shamful Mystery
wow Yamaraj! I did not expect such a response from a mythologically important character as you?
mediator
Technomancer
Yamaraj said:
Ahh! A Maoist from patna! ...... Neways Its not possible for anyone to live without religion. Having faith, asking the destiny to flower luck, believing etc is all religion if u think in broader sense!! .......... Read Bhagvad Gita......for further enlightenment!
Yamaraj
The Lord of Death
Religion is the opiate of the masses.
I do not have any faith. I do not believe in destiny or luck. I have absolutely
no beliefs whatsoever. And I do not subscribe to any religion.
My point is that if you cannot develop morality and conscience on your own,
without the help(?) of so-called religious and spiritual leaders, you have failed
as a person. If you pay daily visits to religious places for your own well-being,
and yet have no respect for other living beings, you have failed as a human.
Most of the people are religious because they're greedy and selfish. God is a
poor helpless dude who has to listen to the endless ramblings of his minions.
He has to fullfil the desires of the believers, else they'll find another God for
the same. He has got a broad shoulder for all the psychos to lean onto and cry
their wildest of dreams to become true. He's got no option but to provide free
passport to Heaven to all. And what Heaven? Where people are no less glamorous
than Hollywood, and no less fashionable than Milan. Where the fairies are more
beautiful than those from Vegas. And dances so erotic, you would forget Crazy
Horse downright. Where the Lord Indra is more powerful and full of sexual energy,
that even the Romans cannot surpass. Such is our promised Heaven!
I hope all you religous people get whatever you're promised. But truth be told,
this World is much more truthful, exciting and full of life than the promised
land of dreams. Land your feet onto Earth, for you've been flying so long!
I may as well belong to Hell, after I finish my life on Earth.
I do not have any faith. I do not believe in destiny or luck. I have absolutely
no beliefs whatsoever. And I do not subscribe to any religion.
My point is that if you cannot develop morality and conscience on your own,
without the help(?) of so-called religious and spiritual leaders, you have failed
as a person. If you pay daily visits to religious places for your own well-being,
and yet have no respect for other living beings, you have failed as a human.
Most of the people are religious because they're greedy and selfish. God is a
poor helpless dude who has to listen to the endless ramblings of his minions.
He has to fullfil the desires of the believers, else they'll find another God for
the same. He has got a broad shoulder for all the psychos to lean onto and cry
their wildest of dreams to become true. He's got no option but to provide free
passport to Heaven to all. And what Heaven? Where people are no less glamorous
than Hollywood, and no less fashionable than Milan. Where the fairies are more
beautiful than those from Vegas. And dances so erotic, you would forget Crazy
Horse downright. Where the Lord Indra is more powerful and full of sexual energy,
that even the Romans cannot surpass. Such is our promised Heaven!
I hope all you religous people get whatever you're promised. But truth be told,
this World is much more truthful, exciting and full of life than the promised
land of dreams. Land your feet onto Earth, for you've been flying so long!
I may as well belong to Hell, after I finish my life on Earth.
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led_shankar
In Shamful Mystery
@yamaraj: you have faith in communism, and marx is your prophet
note - I am an atheist/apatheist too
note - I am an atheist/apatheist too
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mediator
Technomancer
Whoooofff @Yamaraj.....!
I dont know why u have these perceptions about religion. But whatever u said above also comes under religion.
But I also believe strongly in GITA. I dont follow any religious leader....but I do filter out there teachings and the things a good citizen/father/brother/a person shud do! I also dont visit religious places...coz its the innerds of u that reflect in temples and whenever worship be its a holy place or regular street.
Its like worshipping ur father. Dont u listen to ur father whenevr he says something? or scolds u for doing wrong thing? u listen to him coz u know he is wise and is saying good for u. And how do u know he is wise?
The same is thing for religious leaders. First we develop some respect for them....then only we do listen!!!! can we listen to a leader who himself talks crap?? Do u listen to all leaders be it religious or political ?? Do u listen to Arjun Singh?? And why does the world is listening to Baba RamdeV so attentively?? he isnt telling anyone religious!! Does he?? He's only telling ppl the ways that are benefecial for human beings, i.e excerices!! Thats it. A gym coach also tells u the best excercises....will u say he's a religious leader??
its upto the world to listen!! So u see nobody follows or listens a person/leader without any reason!! As I asked do listen to ur parents without any reason??
I dunno what is heaven for u?? All the worly pleasure I guess...as u quoted! But for me its giving love to loved ones,completing the necessary tasks and aims, mountains,rivers,winters,wet forests etc etc.
Heaven is nothing but other name of what u desire of and what gives u immense happiness!!
Well I'll say if u desire of whatever u quoted in above text of promised land of dreams and fantasy etc.......then I seriously pity u!!
Gita doesnt says anything about hinduism! It doesnt even says to people to follow hinduism or all the gods come under hinduism. Its only the ppl who have christened the holy teachings as hinduism!!
I CHALLENGE u PUBLICLY to read GITA for once if u have the courage, by heart, line by line,with proper understanding, like ur listening to ur father and then say the definition of the word Religion!
I dont know why u have these perceptions about religion. But whatever u said above also comes under religion.
Thats gita's sloka. "Karamerne vadikaraste mafaleshu kadachana........abhyuthana adharmasya". That means dont rely on destiny...have faith in urself...do work but dont try to dream of the result! If u dont rely on others then u must be having a lotta faith in urself. Then how come u say ..... u dont have anyfaith. Now dont say u dont have faith in urself tooooo or u'll be making a serious mockery,a big joke of urself!yamaraj said:
I forgot the sloka for this one...but it says "Knowing oneself is dharma.....". Bro....Mah family is arya samaji....We see hindu gods as good people..who must have come on earth sometime.yamaraj said:
But I also believe strongly in GITA. I dont follow any religious leader....but I do filter out there teachings and the things a good citizen/father/brother/a person shud do! I also dont visit religious places...coz its the innerds of u that reflect in temples and whenever worship be its a holy place or regular street.
Its like worshipping ur father. Dont u listen to ur father whenevr he says something? or scolds u for doing wrong thing? u listen to him coz u know he is wise and is saying good for u. And how do u know he is wise?
The same is thing for religious leaders. First we develop some respect for them....then only we do listen!!!! can we listen to a leader who himself talks crap?? Do u listen to all leaders be it religious or political ?? Do u listen to Arjun Singh?? And why does the world is listening to Baba RamdeV so attentively?? he isnt telling anyone religious!! Does he?? He's only telling ppl the ways that are benefecial for human beings, i.e excerices!! Thats it. A gym coach also tells u the best excercises....will u say he's a religious leader??
its upto the world to listen!! So u see nobody follows or listens a person/leader without any reason!! As I asked do listen to ur parents without any reason??
I can synonymise this line of urs to political people like arjun singh!yamaraj said:
Looks like lines from some english novel!!Yamaraj said:
yamaraj said:
I dunno what is heaven for u?? All the worly pleasure I guess...as u quoted! But for me its giving love to loved ones,completing the necessary tasks and aims, mountains,rivers,winters,wet forests etc etc.
Heaven is nothing but other name of what u desire of and what gives u immense happiness!!
Some religious ppl dont ask anything. As Gita says desire is human enemy!!Yamaraj said:
Well I'll say if u desire of whatever u quoted in above text of promised land of dreams and fantasy etc.......then I seriously pity u!!
Wake up before its too late or else u'll suffer so! Know urself!!yamaraj said:
Gita doesnt says anything about hinduism! It doesnt even says to people to follow hinduism or all the gods come under hinduism. Its only the ppl who have christened the holy teachings as hinduism!!
I CHALLENGE u PUBLICLY to read GITA for once if u have the courage, by heart, line by line,with proper understanding, like ur listening to ur father and then say the definition of the word Religion!
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led_shankar
In Shamful Mystery
considering you quote his work like a shastra, ("religion is the opiate of the masses"), I'd say you do.
And besides, you have faith in your philosophy of life. you can't say you don't have *any* faith
And besides, you have faith in your philosophy of life. you can't say you don't have *any* faith
Yamaraj
The Lord of Death
@led_shankar
'Any' implied god(s) or religions. I do have faith in myself.
I do agree with Marx on the issue of religions, hence the quote. Organized
religion is no different from organized mafia or bad governments. Ever notice
how the 'Sadhus' kill each other on the issue of money donated to temples?
Do you realize how powerful and rich they have become? Religions and their
self-proclaimed leaders are not about spirituality anymore. Some awkward
person with cheap magic tricks declares himself an incarnation of Vishnu, and
the rest start worshipping an alive person. What is this? I can prove that such
worshippers are clinically insane, and should be put into mental asylums.
What bothers me is the sheer number of such psychologically challanged people.
I recommend you read works of Bertrand Russell and others who understand the
human mind and its complexities. Gods and religions are the by-products of
the chemical and electrical reactions of the neurons.
@mediator
I have read Gita, and I understand it's above the religion in its teachings.
I had finished reading both Ramayana and Mahabharata before I turned 11, BTW.
Sanskrit was my favorite subject in school. I'm not against spirituality, but
I strongly oppose to organized religions and stupid spiritual leaders who have
little clue what they are talking about.
Heaven is nothing to me. Heaven and Hell are devised by people who have to
resort to extreme ends of any problem. It was a simple and effective tool to
keep greedy people in line with morality. It has no meaning now.
I can't tell happiness from sorrow. I accept both with neutrality and equality.
But if you think that desiring Worldly pleasures is pitiful, then you're on shaky
grounds. Gita falls flat on its face here. Desires are not bad themselves. What
really matters is how you chase your desires and dreams. 'All Karma and no
desires' is easy to preach, but impossible to practise. You cannot expect a
lowly human being to work hard all day and have no pleasures at all. Do you?
'Any' implied god(s) or religions. I do have faith in myself.
I do agree with Marx on the issue of religions, hence the quote. Organized
religion is no different from organized mafia or bad governments. Ever notice
how the 'Sadhus' kill each other on the issue of money donated to temples?
Do you realize how powerful and rich they have become? Religions and their
self-proclaimed leaders are not about spirituality anymore. Some awkward
person with cheap magic tricks declares himself an incarnation of Vishnu, and
the rest start worshipping an alive person. What is this? I can prove that such
worshippers are clinically insane, and should be put into mental asylums.
What bothers me is the sheer number of such psychologically challanged people.
I recommend you read works of Bertrand Russell and others who understand the
human mind and its complexities. Gods and religions are the by-products of
the chemical and electrical reactions of the neurons.
@mediator
I have read Gita, and I understand it's above the religion in its teachings.
I had finished reading both Ramayana and Mahabharata before I turned 11, BTW.
Sanskrit was my favorite subject in school. I'm not against spirituality, but
I strongly oppose to organized religions and stupid spiritual leaders who have
little clue what they are talking about.
Heaven is nothing to me. Heaven and Hell are devised by people who have to
resort to extreme ends of any problem. It was a simple and effective tool to
keep greedy people in line with morality. It has no meaning now.
I can't tell happiness from sorrow. I accept both with neutrality and equality.
But if you think that desiring Worldly pleasures is pitiful, then you're on shaky
grounds. Gita falls flat on its face here. Desires are not bad themselves. What
really matters is how you chase your desires and dreams. 'All Karma and no
desires' is easy to preach, but impossible to practise. You cannot expect a
lowly human being to work hard all day and have no pleasures at all. Do you?
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led_shankar
In Shamful Mystery
@yamaraj: I've read some Russell, and he is very good. In fact, you're being overly dramatic, but most of our main points are the same. P.S. - Religion cannot be banned, because it is not systematic. It is systemic.
As far as the idolatory is concerned (esp. of the kind like the Vishnu impersonator), you ought to realise that a) the followers of these people do not really represent religious people as such and b) these are not more than fads, that fade away quickly.
Also, it is rude to call religious people mentally handicapped, especially since modern psychology has proved that religious people generally lead mentally more balanced and secure lives than the non-religious types. Now, I am, as I said before, an apatheist (*en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apatheism) and I also do not like mass-scale religions (see the previous posts which seemed to piss a lot of people off), but I do respect those who do not agree with me, even if I think they are wrong, and that is something you need to work on.
As far as the idolatory is concerned (esp. of the kind like the Vishnu impersonator), you ought to realise that a) the followers of these people do not really represent religious people as such and b) these are not more than fads, that fade away quickly.
Also, it is rude to call religious people mentally handicapped, especially since modern psychology has proved that religious people generally lead mentally more balanced and secure lives than the non-religious types. Now, I am, as I said before, an apatheist (*en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apatheism) and I also do not like mass-scale religions (see the previous posts which seemed to piss a lot of people off), but I do respect those who do not agree with me, even if I think they are wrong, and that is something you need to work on.
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