Movies Discussion Thread V1: Ratings and Opinions

Ethan_Hunt

Aspiring Novelist
First of all I did not understand this movie. Natalie Portman obviously did a remarkable performance in this movie but was that really Oscar level performance?
Without a shadow of a doubt, she deserved this award. I had said that (and you can quote me on this) she deserved, both, the Golden Globe and the Oscar for her performance, when I first saw the film. Let's face it, this movie was built around her. Although, it does not mean that the other actors were any less important, but Portman's role had over-shadowed everyone's performance. Her expressions, the amount of hard work gone into learning ballet, the shaping of her character from White Swan to a Dark one, trying to push herself to achieve perfection, emotional ties with her mother, constantly fighting her depression state on being told by Tom that she's too fragile for the role of Black Swan, convincing manner of trying to satisfy her sexual urges etc. are just some of the things I can think off the top off my head. It was like Aronofsky already had a vision that she would nail the character on Nina, which she DID. So I don't see why she should not be appreciated for her performance and get an award.

I stopped caring for Oscar's, as their choices had gone down the stink hole for a bloody long time now. So even if Portman didn't get any award, it wouldn't matter, since it was convincing enough for people to actually take heed of her character and eventually, the movie.

I'll try to answer you queries, which would be restricted to my knowledge, so feel free to discuss further. :)

1. Does Natalie Portman talk like that in real life too or in other films? So tender, fragile and weak

Nina's role in this movie was supposed to be submissive. She lives with her mother, who is over-protective of her and must have had a very restrictive up-bringing. You can see how her mother treats her like a "child" at every stage and tries to forbid her from taking a night out with Lily. It's pretty evident that she has turned into a fragile person, a form, which she wants to break, by portraying her role as Black Swan. Notice how she has stuffed toys and a neatly made up bed, pretty similar to that of a teenage girl. I have seen her role develop in V for Vendetta, a movie in which she has to go through a rigorous mental (and physical) torture to learn a harsh reality. So don't let her ballerina looks and talk fool you in this movie. After all, what's an actor who cannot make you believe of something which doesn't exist?

2. She is shown having scratches even b4 she gets the role. So can I say that the Black Swan role did not do this to her?

There is no specific indication given in this movie of how she got that rash on her back. You must have heard her mother when she says "You are scratching again", which may signify that she has attempted this before, not necessarily on her back. It might be a way of removing anger by inflitcing pain to self. Disturbed minds often react in a different way and sometimes makes you visualize of certain events which aren't real. If you have seen the movie, Martyrs, then you'll know what I'm talking about. At first I imagined that the rash was just a figment of her imagination, just like a lot of other sequences in this movie, but it wasn't, since her mother obviously noticed it too. The point is not to reflect on how she got the rash, but to reflect on how her hallucinations manifests it at later stages; wings sproutings out, aggravating it further by scratching it, the illusion she has in the washroom etc. It's (the rash) not fully attributed to the role of Black Swan, but to her disturbed mental state.

3. Her mother said once she had this habit of scratching herself long back. So that is not a sudden mental disbalance.

I have explained this in the above point. She must have been under constant pressure and stress for different things, which might have lead to this scratching incident(s). You can see she constantly tries to be a perfectionist and keeps pushing herself to the extremes. It takes a toll on her mind and body.

4. She says she does not have boyfriends. Should I derive anything from this too. How could she not have a boyfriend?

I can't say this with complete certainty, but it could be possible that her closed upbringing might have had some share in this. Nina does tell Tom that she has had 2 boyfriends and mildly agrees that she isn't a virgin, which Tom finds hard to believe. Hence, he instantly tells her to go home and explore her body and enjoy it, which she DOES. So could be possible that she might have not had any sexual gratification before. Another theory that I could possibly derive is that she isn't really interested in men. You can see how she bites Tom's lips the first time he attempts to kiss her, trying to fight back. Her "wet dream" of Lily could enforce this to some extent too. Again, I can't say this with 100% accuracy.

5. I understand she hallucinated the whole lesbian sex and murder scene. For the sex scene she was under drug influence but did she take the drug before the performance?

It's not the drug influence which created the hallucinations. Nina was mentally disturbed; schizophrenic, as some might call it. The drug event just fuelled her imagination a step further into creating the sex scene with Lily. You can see how she lashes out at her mother and shuts the door trying to break free from her. You can also witness the tatoo on Lily's shoulder trying to take a real form, so it's not just the drug influence, it's her mental deformity escalating to the next level. The murder scene was a similar manifetation. She wants the role of Black Swan so bad that she actually imagines killing Lily off and growing those dark wings. She is so obessed with perfectioning the role of the Black Swan, that she actually sees herself performing a dark act and thus moulding from a fragile white Swan to a gruesome Black Swan.

6. What the hell was this movie about.

It was about passion and about achieving perfection in something which you love doing. But like everyone knows, achieving perfection shouldn't be the end goal, as nothing is perfect, so to speak. The movie shows how people put so much pressure on themselves trying to turn themselves into something they're not. At the same time, it speaks of how you can develop alternate realities and allow your mind to create things which aren't real. In an attempt to turn into the "perfect" Black Swan, Nina sacrifices her entire mind and body and it leads to her demise. Her last words to Tom after she falls off the stage were "I felt it. Perfect. I was perfect." Hence, she finally feels perfect and relived from her stress.

There are different ways of interpreting this movie and referencing it with different aspects. In the end, it just depends in what manner you want to digest it.

7. There can be only one Lynch.

and one Cameron, one Speilberg, one Nolan and ONE Ethan Hunt. :grin:
 

rhitwick

Democracy is a myth
Well it wasn't that bad for me, depends on the expectations actually, I already knew what kind of cinema I could expect from this movie so I was kinda okie with it. I gave skyline 6.0/10, and this was far better than skyline ........ but below 6, for me starts to mean that, at times in a movie you have that urge to leave as it grows that boring, and I think Battle:L.A was not that bad.....was it ...??? :)

I had not had any expectation from it. I had a mindset it would bore me, and it did.

I did not like skyline. Anyone is doing anything! Nonsense.

For Battle LA, well the action is good, Everyone is firing all the time. It had clische, I was predicting the next scene all the time. Full of stupid logics and corny dialogs.

Sam, I think I'm not easily entertained anymore. I'm not claiming I've become some superior or some snob. I, I can't enjoy it just like that; all time I sit to see a movie, the scenes keep on getting compared with other similar scenes in movies. The situation worsens when whatever I predict is shown exactly in next scene.

What was good in Battle : LA> Special effects and special effects only. It lacks a script and reality check.

Without a shadow of a doubt, she deserved this award. I had said that (and you can quote me on this) she deserved, both, the Golden Globe and the Oscar for her performance, when I first saw the film. Let's face it, this movie was built around her. Although, it does not mean that the other actors were any less important, but Portman's role had over-shadowed everyone's performance. Her expressions, the amount of hard work gone into learning ballet, the shaping of her character from White Swan to a Dark one, trying to push herself to achieve perfection, emotional ties with her mother, constantly fighting her depression state on being told by Tom that she's too fragile for the role of Black Swan, convincing manner of trying to satisfy her sexual urges etc. are just some of the things I can think off the top off my head. It was like Aronofsky already had a vision that she would nail the character on Nina, which she DID. So I don't see why she should not be appreciated for her performance and get an award.
I'm not saying that she had not acted that great but only acknowledgeable thing she did in my eyes is ballet. Really hats off to her for that part. BUT, rest I'm not convinced. The kind of character she played, demands more. Why not show the tension, frustration, agony and transformation. Either she is good or playing bad, but never the transformation is captured which I consider is what requires much acting skills. I could not evaluate her.

If you want to say that, last year THAT was the best female performance among all the movies hollywood produced, then I'm disappointed but would agree that she should get the award then.


I'll try to answer you queries, which would be restricted to my knowledge, so feel free to discuss further. :)

Nina's role in this movie was supposed to be submissive. She lives with her mother, who is over-protective of her and must have had a very restrictive up-bringing. You can see how her mother treats her like a "child" at every stage and tries to forbid her from taking a night out with Lily. It's pretty evident that she has turned into a fragile person, a form, which she wants to break, by portraying her role as Black Swan. Notice how she has stuffed toys and a neatly made up bed, pretty similar to that of a teenage girl. I have seen her role develop in V for Vendetta, a movie in which she has to go through a rigorous mental (and physical) torture to learn a harsh reality. So don't let her ballerina looks and talk fool you in this movie. After all, what's an actor who cannot make you believe of something which doesn't exist?

Exactly! I was curious to know if this is how she talk or the role demanded her to be like this. I just could not believe a girl talking like that, so mild, so weak, so soft that it feels she is whispering. TOTALLY goes with the role I say. I would like hear her real voice somewhere :D

I can't say this with complete certainty, but it could be possible that her closed upbringing might have had some share in this. Nina does tell Tom that she has had 2 boyfriends and mildly agrees that she isn't a virgin, which Tom finds hard to believe. Hence, he instantly tells her to go home and explore her body and enjoy it, which she DOES. So could be possible that she might have not had any sexual gratification before. Another theory that I could possibly derive is that she isn't really interested in men. You can see how she bites Tom's lips the first time he attempts to kiss her, trying to fight back. Her "wet dream" of Lily could enforce this to some extent too. Again, I can't say this with 100% accuracy.

I also think so. I think, she did never have boyfriends and she is virgin. She just lied to Tom just that he does not think she is naive. But later she took this lie seriously and thought of exploring it. Both Tom and Lily were proved to be free will, strong character than her but still she fantasized about Lily which could prove her sexual inclination to women.


It's not the drug influence which created the hallucinations. Nina was mentally disturbed; schizophrenic, as some might call it. The drug event just fuelled her imagination a step further into creating the sex scene with Lily. You can see how she lashes out at her mother and shuts the door trying to break free from her. You can also witness the tatoo on Lily's shoulder trying to take a real form, so it's not just the drug influence, it's her mental deformity escalating to the next level. The murder scene was a similar manifetation. She wants the role of Black Swan so bad that she actually imagines killing Lily off and growing those dark wings. She is so obessed with perfectioning the role of the Black Swan, that she actually sees herself performing a dark act and thus moulding from a fragile white Swan to a gruesome Black Swan.

It was about passion and about achieving perfection in something which you love doing. But like everyone knows, achieving perfection shouldn't be the end goal, as nothing is perfect, so to speak. The movie shows how people put so much pressure on themselves trying to turn themselves into something they're not. At the same time, it speaks of how you can develop alternate realities and allow your mind to create things which aren't real. In an attempt to turn into the "perfect" Black Swan, Nina sacrifices her entire mind and body and it leads to her demise. Her last words to Tom after she falls off the stage were "I felt it. Perfect. I was perfect." Hence, she finally feels perfect and relived from her stress.

There are different ways of interpreting this movie and referencing it with different aspects. In the end, it just depends in what manner you want to digest it.

my version: Nina is a good girl and a very good ballet dancer. She vies to be perfect in every task she is given. She eventually gets the role of Swan Queen but this time the tale has a twist. This time the lead has to perform both white and black swan (or good and evil). She is excited that she would do this perfectly.

Now, Nina was never in a relation (and I guess she had not had much company of men. So Being with Thomas, she actually gets impressed by him and gets attracted [Story goes as like the Swan Queen play. White Swan (good Nina) falls for Prince (Thomas) but prince is not aware.

Enter Lily. She is everything that Nina is not. Manipulative, seductive and free will and dances well the Black Swan part too. Day by Nina sees how Lily impresses Thomas and seduces him too [relevance with story: Black swan impresses Prince and seduces him]. Right now Nina's mental condition is totally dis-balanced. She kind of lives in Swan Queen role. The situation scares her that she might loose the role and Thomas too.
She believes she is still not perfect for Black Swan role as she is not evil enough and does not know about seducing. To feel the bad in her, she had to do something. She was so obsessed with Lily and black swan role that she (IMO) imagined killing her. This incident makes her feel guilty and makes an impression in her mind that she is now evil. Somehow (I'm not convinced how?) she manages to do the Black Swan part of ballet perfectly [this explains why she told I felt perfect] (how she could do it? in rehearsal she always failed! Just because she feels evil, she did perfect! Was that the only thing she was lacking in rehearsal nothing related to skill?! May be)

But my version does not answer or does not fit once scene: Nina's wet dream about Lily! I seem to do not find any explanation for that.

The subject is not exceptional. And I would like to know if she died? If not, what do you think NINA would do afterwards? Seriously, authors just kill their creations when they no more know what to do with them. It like they were created to serve a purpose and they have to go once the job is done.

and one Cameron, one Speilberg, one Nolan and ONE Ethan Hunt. :grin:

I brought Lynch as the movie seemed to be that puzzling and confusing to me. When finished, it raises more question.
 
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Ethan_Hunt

Aspiring Novelist
I'm not saying that she had not acted that great but only acknowledgeable thing she did in my eyes is ballet. Really hats off to her for that part. BUT, rest I'm not convinced. The kind of character she played, demands more. Why not show the tension, frustration, agony and transformation. Either she is good or playing bad, but never the transformation is captured which I consider is what requires much acting skills. I could not evaluate her.
Only did Ballet? Really? You completely missed the point of her character. She didn't JUST do ballet, but battled with herself and splitting her role into 2 distinct parts; one which is very repressed and fragile and the other which is aggressive and dark. The latter would be very difficult for her, had Tom and Lily not been there to push her on every step. Every emotion was captured for Nina and it was broken down into different phases of the movie.


- How did you fail to notice the tension mounting on her when Tom pushes her to play the role of Black Swan? The way she sees Lily manipulating Tom and her emotional out-burst on realizing that Lily would be considered as her replacement for playing Black Swan?

- Frustration is expressed on almost every point. Her frustration with her mother's over-protective nature, was the reason she decides to take the night out with Lily. Her frustration builds up when she learns Beth meets with an accident and she feels it might have been her fault. Frustration is the reason why she often breaks down, emotionally. Remember how she breaks down right after her passionate rehearsal with Tom and then Lily steps in an consoles her? Watch her face for those subtle tensed reactions.

- Agony. This was present throughout the movie. I'm flummoxed how much more of agony would you want from her role? She's in pain almost at every point. Her toes and feet almost give way, yet she practices. Watch her in pain as she tries to remove the shard from her stomach, towards the end. Observe her reactions when she sees Beth lying in her injured position on her bed. The way she throws of all her stuff toys and ballerina box. What form of agony do you want expressed?

- Transformation. I take it you mean her transformation in Black Swan. Well, it grows gradually. It was never supposed to be her role as Black Swan, Lily was supposed to be the dark horse. It was Nina's choice of pushing herself and trying to be the Black Swan, which creates a very dark aura around her. This reflected by her hallucination of her mother's paintings yelling "Sweet Girl", Lily's back Tatoo taking a dark form, her eyes going red etc. Those a small hints of her mental transformation towards a dark side, which is essentially being Black Swan.
I'm really surprised you missed all these elements. Her hard-work clearly reflected in this movie. Visit any boards, read any reviews you want and you'll notice them echo the same thing; Natalie's performance was brilliant. But then again, I guess we each have our own perspective, so we won't always share the same degree of agreement. ;-)


If you want to say that, last year THAT was the best female performance among all the movies hollywood produced, then I'm disappointed but would agree that she should get the award then.
LOL! When did I say that? In fact, why would I even say that? There are far more powerful roles done by females who are equally and/or more talented than her. Since you had asked the question of her deserving this award, I replied in conjunction to it.

Somehow (I'm not convinced how?) she manages to do the Black Swan part of ballet perfectly [this explains why she told I felt perfect] (how she could do it? in rehearsal she always failed! Just because she feels evil, she did perfect! Was that the only thing she was lacking in rehearsal nothing related to skill?! May be)

Towards the end, she has almost lost control of herself and her hallucinations take an aggressive form. After *supposedly* killing Lily, she is still scared. However, when she finishes the first act of her Black Swan role, she is applauded by the audience. Notice how she removes her face net and then enjoys that her hands taking the form of large black wings. This is her final step of transformation. Elated by it and the crowd, she then delivers the solo act, which receives a standing ovation. Her rehearsals were complete disasters, since Tom criticized her and provoked her all along. Out here, she thinks that she actually killed Lily, thus eliminating competition. So with no back up/ replacement for Black Swan. Now she had full control and delivers. Although, I feel they could have prolonged the Black Swan performance. It was a bit short.

But my version does not answer or does not fit once scene: Nina's wet dream about Lily! I seem to do not find any explanation for that.

This sexual out-burst could her way of letting loose, something which Tom has been reminding her of doing all along. You can see that she is cut-short of her masturbating by her mother's presence. So it could be the sexual urge and the passionate moment she shares in the cab with Lily.

The subject is not exceptional. And I would like to know if she died? If not, what do you think NINA would do afterwards? Seriously, authors just kill their creations when they no more know what to do with them. It like they were created to serve a purpose and they have to go once the job is done.

It's an ending which is open to interpretation. I'm pretty sure she dies. I think I read somewhere that in the original Swan Lake, the Swan Queen kills herself.

I brought Lynch as the movie seemed to be that puzzling and confusing to me. When finished, it raises more question.
I know why you were bringing in his reference, I was just kidding. If you were serious, then Lynch isn't the only director whose movies would leave you baffled. Nolan makes movies which have dense themes and leave the endings ambiguous. When Matrix first came out, it had a very confusing and complex, yet intriguing plot. Post multiple viewings, you could understand what Agent Smith's speeches actually meant, Why Morpheus felt Neo was the one, what the Matrix ACTUALLY was. There are a lot of directors who can pull this off, so Lynch isn't the only one to be attributed with building complex plots.
 

a_medico

Chillum Baba
Darren Aronofsky's Black Swan (Aronofsky trying David Lynch) lived up to my expectations. But for me, Aronofsky's best works still remain Requiem for the dream and The Fountain. I don't think he can surpass these two movies in the near future.

My personal pick for Oscar for best actress would be Carey Mulligan for Never Let Me Go. But nothing against Natalie Portman. I am not complaining.
 

Rahim

Married!
^The movie was scary and ugly people roamed on the screen :(
The acting was good but i found it very difficult to follow whats happeneing on screen.
The fat guy looked like character from Doom 3.
 

Vyom

The Power of x480
Staff member
Admin
Watched "Kick Ass" yesterday night! Totally over-hyped it was. Or the trailer had over-hyped me!
Action was great. But (not a spoiler) the lead character, Kick Ass, who was totally realistic, didn't quite suited with larger then life character, Hit Girl!
But apart from above, the movie was totally entertaining! Superb!

Ratings (out of 10)=> Comedy: 7, Action: 9, Entertainment: 8, Originality: 9. Hit Girl (Chloe Moretz): 11! :))
 
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rhitwick

Democracy is a myth
Did you hear about the morgans? 5.4/10

Well I've seen this movie and its nothing special. Somewhat boring and predictable. Ummm...not recommended I guess.
 

Ethan_Hunt

Aspiring Novelist
Sucker Punch is just around the corner. Have taken a day off a work tomorrow. So it's either a first day, first show OR Saturday morning show. IMDB users reviews are getting positive reviews. :grin:
 
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