Movies Discussion Thread V1: Ratings and Opinions

[fieldgunner]

Well, here comes what a_medico calls personal point of view.

of course it is a ppov, bro...none of us can claim our opinion about something as the absolute truth

Agreed that story wise its very simple. But the torture level shown in this movie are totally awesome. It never goes to gross level but that way to torture someone mentally is exciting. I would recommend u watching "Funny Games". It also lacks a good script but u would get to know that there stands such a genre.

i feel (ppov, again ) that a script is the heart of a movie. no amount of exceptional acting, direction, cinematography,special effects or anything else can save a movie with a bad script. Also, a 'good' script imho is not necessarily 'complicated'. Simple stories can also provide exceptional entertainment value...

I saw that u expected a few twists and profound emotional impact.Well, this movie never promised such things. It from the beginning shows that what u r going to watch is consequence of some act done before. And obviously forget emotion (if u expect emotion, don't watch Oldboy too, it may shake ur emo level very much)

I respectfully disagree. If a plot element is introduced in a movie, it should have a purpose. If the purpose is not immediately apparent, then the viewer automatically starts expecting a twist or a revelation to come subsequently in the story that will give purpose to it.

{WARNING:Spoiler starts}
1.Take the ornate pistol that Geum-Ja acquires. The script takes a lot of time and develops a lot of background about that pistol. Anyone watching the movie will immediately wonder what it's purpose is. Since it is not immediately clear why that pistol is so special, it constitutes a "promise" from the script that something will be explained later. Unfortunately, the ornate, custom made, 'pretty' pistol serves absolutely no purpose in the film that an ordinary one wouldnt. It forms a part of her 13-year long 'Plan' for revenge but it doesnt fit into the plan anywhere.

2.Geum-ja's sexual relationship with the young bakery boy... where does that lead? The episode could have been a key to developing her character as a heartless revenge machine as is hinted at the end of that scene ("If you touch anything else in my room, I'll blow your head off...").Imagine if she had used him as a part of her plan for revenge, and later either
abandoned or sacrificed him without concern. That would have driven home the impact of the emotional cost of vengeance... but that again remains a plot element that does nothing.

3.There are lots of other such loopholes/dead ends in the story. Here are more examples- Geum-Ja's cut finger serves no plot or character development purpose ( all her money is spent on it's surgery, but she still has enough for an air ticket to Australia later). Her interaction with her daughters foster parents and their subsequent trip to Seoul are completely needless.The videotaping of the kidnapping and murders of the children makes no sense (why videotape if all you need is the audio track of their voices to make the ransom demands? Also... why step in front of the video camera to incriminate yourself? one would expect a psycho kidnapper and killer who has avoided the police for 13 years to be smarter than that).The dream sequence in the beginning. The shooting of the dog in the middle. Actually its a very long list...

{Spoiler ends}

Sorry, but the movie feels hurriedly written and careless. And I apologise if I am overanalysing it, but bad jokes have to be explained...good ones are obvious

On the whole, I assure you I dont demand very much from movies. I feel you enjoy them only if you see them with the correct expectations. I can enjoy a lot of artsy-fartsy stuff... I loved Kurosawa's 'Dreams'...as well as the special effects extravaganzas that come every summer. I really loved Terminator:Salvation also. Everyone gave me intellectual appraisals that it was a bad movie but I didnt go to see that for any intellectual stimulation!

In case of 'Lady Vengeance' I was expecting an intelligent movie... my mistake.

As for 'Oldboy' i think i'll see some more opinions of it before I decide.

 

[rhitwick]

i feel (ppov, again ) that a script is the heart of a movie. no amount of exceptional acting, direction, cinematography,special effects or anything else can save a movie with a bad script. Also, a 'good' script imho is not necessarily 'complicated'. Simple stories can also provide exceptional entertainment value...

Hmmm...u need a good plot for a good movie. U still have not seen movies with only incidents. Which is as powerful as any movie with a gr8 story to back it up.
Then what would u call "3-Iron" by Kim-ki-duk? It has even less as so-called "PLOT". But, the movie is an cinematic experience.
Again, I would have recommended u that movie, but I just don't want to hear "bad words" about that movie (same reason I would ask u to stay away from Oldboy)


{WARNING:Spoiler starts}

1.Take the ornate pistol that Geum-Ja acquires. The script takes a lot of time and develops a lot of background about that pistol. Anyone watching the movie will immediately wonder what it's purpose is. Since it is not immediately clear why that pistol is so special, it constitutes a "promise" from the script that something will be explained later. Unfortunately, the ornate, custom made, 'pretty' pistol serves absolutely no purpose in the film that an ordinary one wouldnt. It forms a part of her 13-year long 'Plan' for revenge but it doesnt fit into the plan anywhere.

If u remember all her jail-mates contributed in her plan. The pistol design was a gift to her by that Korean spy (that yellow book). IMO (or what I understood) she oathed herself of killing that man with the pistol only. She had gone to the school to kill him too, but when found out the man is not only responsible for her misery but for other parents too she thought a team game would be more painful and torturous for him.
Remember the scene she uses the pistol to shoot the man in both his legs. Calls a meeting on how to kill him Makes the man listen to all these discussion.
I ask u to be imaginative only once, and try to think what did the man went through every time some one spoke up.
This I call brilliance. They won't show u everything. Its the feeling which would make u feel complete.

2.Geum-ja's sexual relationship with the young bakery boy... where does that lead? The episode could have been a key to developing her character as a heartless revenge machine as is hinted at the end of that scene ("If you touch anything else in my room, I'll blow your head off...").Imagine if she had used him as a part of her plan for revenge, and later either
abandoned or sacrificed him without concern. That would have driven home the impact of the emotional cost of vengeance... but that again remains a plot element that does nothing.

Let me be very in-ur-face and say that what u r demanding is pure MASALA (or indian version old that story). Doing what u suggested would only generate sympathy for the boy which in turn does not fit for the movie environment. Understand clearly, its a heartless film. She had seen all, she doesn't care who she had sex, who loves her (as a woman, not as mother! I know u would ask). As a woman she had nothing to ask from the world.
U disappointed only because u expected emotion in this movie. (Please don't watch "Funny Games" either)

3.There are lots of other such loopholes/dead ends in the story. Here are more examples- Geum-Ja's cut finger serves no plot or character development purpose ( all her money is spent on it's surgery, but she still has enough for an air ticket to Australia later). Her interaction with her daughters foster parents and their subsequent trip to Seoul are completely needless.

Cutting her finger event I also could not get. The scene was so hurried that no conclusion can be drawn from it clearly. May be a 2nd viewing???

The videotaping of the kidnapping and murders of the children makes no sense (why videotape if all you need is the audio track of their voices to make the ransom demands? Also... why step in front of the video camera to incriminate yourself? one would expect a psycho kidnapper and killer who has avoided the police for 13 years to be smarter than that).

He did not videotape the incident just to get ransom. The ransom is the byproduct of the kidnap. I don't think his main intention was to earn money. He videotaped the killings for his own viewing (now, u may ask WTF??? I would say, welcome aboard. Ur course of watching SICK movies are not finished yet. Watch "Hard Candy", "Jack Ketchum's The Girl Next Door", "Ichi the killer", "Hostel", "Vacancy(2007)" and a few others. Warning, if u r not above 20 yrs, please, I repeat please don't watch any of these movies) not for police or other persons. He USED the audio in the tape to get ransom

The dream sequence in the beginning. The shooting of the dog in the middle. Actually its a very long list...

Dreams are supposed to be discrete right? Koreans dreams are not exact similar as Indian dream sequences which very clearly tells u what u r seeing.
Comeon, do I need to describe every symbol in this movie. If I need to then also I would appraise the movie, because it made u think over it. (This is the main reason critics appraise any movie)
Watch any David Lynch or Stanley Kubrick movies, u would get that they ask ur brain more than Quantum Physics book
{Spoiler ends}

As for 'Oldboy' i think i'll see some more opinions of it before I decide.

Please don't watch this movie

 

[fieldgunner]

Hmmm...u need a good plot for a good movie. U still have not seen movies with only incidents. Which is as powerful as any movie with a gr8 story to back it up.

I mentioned Kurosawa's 'Dreams'...pure imagery, no plot and very beautiful. I recommend that to you. Its available on youtube also.

Again, I would have recommended u that movie, but I just don't want to hear "bad words" about that movie (same reason I would ask u to stay away from Oldboy)

Please dont take criticism of a movie personally, bro . There is no accounting for taste. You are most welcome to say as many 'bad words' about any movie I like. You will notice that there will be lot of movies that we both like.

{WARNING:Spoiler starts}

The pistol design was a gift to her by that Korean spy (that yellow book). IMO (or what I understood) she oathed herself of killing that man with the pistol only....
Remember the scene she uses the pistol to shoot the man in both his legs.

Why? Would she not have taken her revenge if there had been no pistol design given to her? Like I said, the pistol is irrelevant to the plot but it has been given undue importance in the film. Everything she does with that pistol could have been done without it, or with any generic pistol...

Calls a meeting on how to kill him Makes the man listen to all these discussion.
I ask u to be imaginative only once, and try to think what did the man went through every time some one spoke up.This I call brilliance. They won't show u everything. Its the feeling which would make u feel complete.

I agree... that was a very good instrument in the story. Not enough to salvage the whole movie, though.

Let me be very in-ur-face and say that what u r demanding is pure MASALA (or indian version old that story). Doing what u suggested would only generate sympathy for the boy which in turn does not fit for the movie environment.

One- you speak like a typical pseudo-intellectual, implying that if all Bollywood MASALA is 'bad' and this movie is good only because it is an obscure foreign film that has been praised by critics. I prefer to use my own judgement. I can find equal enjoyment in masala films as well as serious cinema.

Two- I can understand a 'heartless' sexual relationship, but not a 'purposeless' one. And I mean purpose for the film, not the character.

Cutting her finger event I also could not get. The scene was so hurried that no conclusion can be drawn from it clearly. May be a 2nd viewing???

I barely survived the first...

He did not videotape the incident just to get ransom. The ransom is the byproduct of the kidnap. I don't think his main intention was to earn money. He videotaped the killings for his own viewing (now, u may ask WTF??? I would say, welcome aboard. Ur course of watching SICK movies are not finished yet. Watch "Hard Candy", "Jack Ketchum's The Girl Next Door", "Ichi the killer", "Hostel", "Vacancy(2007)" and a few others.

Its acceptable that he was a sick psychopath who videotaped the killings for his own viewing. Whats not acceptable is accidentally stepping in front of the camera to adjust it, thus irrefutably incriminating himself in case the tapes are ever found. Unless you think that he was not only a sick psychopath, but stupid as a piece of wood as well...

Come on, do I need to describe every symbol in this movie. If I need to then also I would appraise the movie, because it made u think over it. (This is the main reason critics appraise any movie)Watch any David Lynch or Stanley Kubrick movies, u would get that they ask ur brain more than Quantum Physics book

Please save yourself the trouble. The movie has some very powerful symbology and I'm quite capable of understanding it's relevance...if there was any relevance to begin with and I can safely say that the symbology, though powerful, is meaningless in the context of the film.

{Spoiler ends}

You are right that good movies make you 'think'. I have seen a lot of Kubrick- 2001, Eyes Wide Shut, Shining and CW Orange. Planning to see Dr Strangelove soon. Not seen any David Lynch except Dune...and I really hated how he murdered one of my favourite sci-fi stories. I really like all of Kubrick. IMHO (always IMHO) 'Lady Vengeance' has NOTHING in common with them.

Oldboy-Please don't watch this movie

I wont. But I assure you that your praise for it has nothing to do with my decision Maybe we can find more common ground in the future bro. Looking forward to your comments on other films...

 

[rhitwick]

I mentioned Kurosawa's 'Dreams'...pure imagery, no plot and very beautiful. I recommend that to you. Its available on youtube also.

Well...Dreams on my list

Please dont take criticism of a movie personally, bro . There is no accounting for taste. You are most welcome to say as many 'bad words' about any movie I like. You will notice that there will be lot of movies that we both like.

See, I know arguing on movies is the most stupid act. But sometimes u see some movies which goes deep into ur heart and u feel possessed by the movie, by the characters, by the incidents, situations etc.
3-Iron is something that kind to me. Its my fav genre (Love-romance ). I don't think I can stand any bad words abt it

{WARNING:Spoiler starts}

Why? Would she not have taken her revenge if there had been no pistol design given to her? Like I said, the pistol is irrelevant to the plot but it has been given undue importance in the film. Everything she does with that pistol could have been done without it, or with any generic pistol...

Agreed u r going materialistic. Yes. Taken ur point and u r very correct in demanding the use of the pistol.
The way I found it is, to her the pistol had gr8 meaning. She dreamt of using it against him. But when time came she found killing him by bullet would just a very easy death. She wanted to make him suffer more for his sins.
Like the man enjoyed his victims killing, she also cherished his pains when the parents were beating him.
(Oh, similar incident happened wid me a few days ago. Broken was the movie. Every now and then it created such situations which made me think something is gonna happen very soon, and nothing happened, but people praised the movie )
I mentioned in my original post that, its the brutality that astonishes me rather the story.

One- you speak like a typical pseudo-intellectual, implying that if all Bollywood MASALA is 'bad' and this movie is good only because it is an obscure foreign film that has been praised by critics. I prefer to use my own judgement. I can find equal enjoyment in masala films as well as serious cinema.

Yep. Sometimes u expect too much from a movie and if doesn't show u what YOU want to see. U r disappointed.

Its acceptable that he was a sick psychopath who videotaped the killings for his own viewing. Whats not acceptable is accidentally stepping in front of the camera to adjust it, thus irrefutably incriminating himself in case the tapes are ever found. Unless you think that he was not only a sick psychopath, but stupid as a piece of wood as well...

Why not a stupid one. Who somehow is careless.
Or maybe enjoys watching both of them in the tape. Which in turn would help revive him EXACT memories of that incident

One question u have missed or skipped asking here is what happened to the priest? Only his part is not settled. I found his one is un-necessary character
{Spoiler ends}

Planning to see Dr Strangelove soon.

Good movie and discrete. IMO, its a black comedy and does not serve a conclusive end.

Not seen any David Lynch except Dune...and I really hated how he murdered one of my favourite sci-fi stories. I really like all of Kubrick. IMHO (always IMHO) 'Lady Vengeance' has NOTHING in common with them.

Plz. don't compare "Lady...." wid them they are far up above. I only mentioned those veterans to tell u how a film can make u think on what happened and why?

 

[fieldgunner]

^
Had a good time talking to you bro... lets agree to disagree.

Let me know what you thought about 'Dreams' though.

 

[Faun]

Vengeance Series is one of finest I have ever watched. Here is a simple plot dissection:
1. Oldboy
Bot characters are antagonists and there is no protagonist.

2. Lady vengeance
Lady is the protagonist and the other guy is the antagonist.

3. Mr Vengeance
Bot characters were the protagonists.

Point 2 kinda made me lol...imagine you are sex starved for a long time and then you get a chance. Will you do it ? Of course ! Sex can be a great stress and depression relieving medicine too. And I am pretty sure that the boy was also asking for it. These movies are concerned about characters and not what the public selectively want.

As for videotaping, you must have heard about a recent case where three teenagers in Ukraine videotaped themselves using screw driver to torture their victim to death. So why would they tape it, i am sure that it will put them at greater risk. But anyway human mind can have weird fetishes. I too recommend watching "Ichi The Killer" or if you do not like much gore then settle with "Vacancy". It will give you a hint.

 

[fieldgunner]

Point 2 kinda made me lol...imagine you are sex starved for a long time and then you get a chance. Will you do it ? Of course ! Sex can be a great stress and depression relieving medicine too. And I am pretty sure that the boy was also asking for it. These movies are concerned about characters and not what the public selectively want.

Obviously, bro, you dont get the point at all...
What does the incident contribute to the plot or the character? I'm not saying that the incident is not plausible or that it is not justified. Just that it is not necessary.
I'm sure the character Geum-ja must have brushed her teeth, had her meals and gone to the loo often during the course of the narrative. But was it shown? why not? Just because the character is justified in doing something does not mean it is integral to the characters development in the film!

Okay...irrespective of the above exchange I have a small theory of film-watching that I would like to share....

At a level, all films are interactive. Your experience when you watch one is under your own control to a large extent. Before one sees a film one always has a basic idea of what he is in for... maybe a hint from some teasers/trailers, maybe word of mouth, maybe you know only the genre...even that is enough. So I really pity all those critics who trash a movie without understanding its context, purpose or target audience. You cant say a movie like "Attack of the Clones" was bad because you felt no emotional attachment with the characters! Lucas was trying to show you the big spaceships, the robots and lightsabres, the exotic action sequences... if you go to the theatre for an emotinal bonding with the characters, its your fault, not the movie's. Conversely, you cant criticize a film like "Blair witch project" for 'bad cinematography techniques' can you?

So your own expectations are an integral part of the film you see. And that is why watching films is an intensely personal experience. When we argue the pros and cons of our film watching experience, we are not defending the film per se, but our reactions to it...

Ah well, enough theorizing... I have a notification from the utorrent icon in my tray

 

[eggman]

My God, you guys are fighting over a movie...lol....Kindly enjoy movie and don't be a movie snob!!I didn't even read your posts!!!lol....

As for me I found LADY VENGEANCE pretty disappointing, definitely worst of the trilogy!! While I liked other two movies(Oldboy is probably one of my all time fav) , this one lacked quite a few stuff that made prev two movies great!! 5-6 from me too... now that's just my personal opinion!!

LORD OF WAR - 8.5/10 : Good scrips, good dialogues,good acting by Nicolas Cage ,good pace, good cinematography, and takes a modern view on arms dealing industry and its morality!!

 

[fieldgunner]

^+1 on Lord of War

-1 on "My god...movie snob...etc". Dude, sorry for offending your sensibilities, but sometimes a detailed discussion on a movie is enriching and as entertaining as the movies . Calling it a 'fight', shows your narrow viewpoint. Read our posts or not...either way, we havent written them for your approval.

Cheers.

 

[eggman]

KAMINEY - :
To start off this film is definitely darker compared to bollywood standards. There are many aspects the director got right!Technically its impressive!!
Cinematography is top notch !!Visually there is nothing wrong with it and it totally sets up the dark mood for the audience!! That's why don't wait for PDVDs , half the fun will be gone!
Background music is well suited and the two main songs are good!!

The dialogues are good and the film moves at a good pace!! There is not much of melodrama and the plot doesn't distract itself much!!There's much humour in between to lighten up the environment,although it's not dark humour, just humour set in dark!!!Coming to storytelling, it's a bit complex because many things are happening at the same time(specially in the first half) and there are many characters in the film but its portrayed well!!A good screenplay accompanies this!Another good thing was how characters grow, along with the story!

As for acting , Shahid Kapoor has done more than an excellent job in the movie!!As you can see from the trailers, he plays the role of twin brother Charlie and Guddu and has done amazing job in portraying both of them, considering how different their characters are!! Hats off to him. Priyanka Chopra played her part well enough and Amol Gupte was simply great at portraying the evil politician!

However , there are few parts in the movie which totally betrays the high standard set by movie!!Some part of the story would made you wish it weren't there !!The ending was , well, a bit priyadarshan-ee !!!

So all in all the film is different, VB tries something new ,and successfully achieves it! It's entertaining enough and surely worth watching in cinemas!Although , I am a little disappointed !

7/10

 

[eggman]

P.S. is it me or the line in
Dhan Te Nan
(hai dil dil dara
mera teli ka tel..
kodi kodi paisa paisa..
paise ka khel..)

0.55 in this link:
*www.youtube.com/watch?v=4WPGc8-Z5PQ

sounds exactly like in the tune this girl is humming in this song:
*www.youtube.com/watch?v=jNq1oms-dsg&feature=channel

I have even mailed it to iitwofs.com

 

[rhitwick]

Surveillance 6.5/10

(@fieldgunner, another movie in which u can ask WTH are these happening )

Same serial-psycho-killer story.
Generally these kinda movies brings a happy ending or leaves u so helpless and sympathetic for the characters that u like the movie. But it failed to create that environment.

Not grt but not bad either.

So-so would be something proper rating
-----------------------------------------
Posted again:
-----------------------------------------

P.S. is it me or the line in
Dhan Te Nan
(hai dil dil dara
mera teli ka tel..
kodi kodi paisa paisa..
paise ka khel..)

0.55 in this link:
*www.youtube.com/watch?v=4WPGc8-Z5PQ

sounds exactly like in the tune this girl is humming in this song:
*www.youtube.com/watch?v=jNq1oms-dsg&feature=channel

I have even mailed it to iitwofs.com

It has SOME similarities
You never know...

 

[Rahim]

^Thats not a co-incidence!!!!!!!! Its "inspired"

 

[als2]

P.S. is it me or the line in
Dhan Te Nan
(hai dil dil dara
mera teli ka tel..
kodi kodi paisa paisa..
paise ka khel..)

0.55 in this link:
*www.youtube.com/watch?v=4WPGc8-Z5PQ

sounds exactly like in the tune this girl is humming in this song:
*www.youtube.com/watch?v=jNq1oms-dsg&feature=channel

I have even mailed it to iitwofs.com

watch this original version

*www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRrL5YpeAxQ

 

[Chirag]

^^
lol. this is good.

 

[rhitwick]

Perfume: The Story of a Murderer 8/10

Gr8 movie with awesome acting by Ben Wishlaw!!!

Its his movie, he's everywhere in this movie.

Story: Nice, being a fantasy u can not ask too many questions, so can be spared at a few places.

Camera: If u r un-satisfied with story then its the Camera work, background score and Ben Wishlaw would compensate that. Its a visual treat.

Check out

 

[MasterMinds]

^Not 8/10 but 7/10.

 

[rhitwick]

Pay it forward 7/10

Very good idea but not so good story. It just could have been much much better.

A few times it just drags.

But, surpassing all its miseries its the idea which should be sole reason you should watch this movie.




P.S. u may get ur CAT preparation done while watching it

 

[Anorion]

^Hey give it a break, it's dated like crazy, but it's a nice, sweet movie. Loved the song at the end - "Calling all Angels". The movie sparked the random acts of kindness movement, so it was totally sucessful in its message, achieving so much as a film.

And yeah, caught Kaminey. Grood stuff, but I liked his previous movie (blue umbrella) better. Any story that chooses twins in the storyline practically kills the story then and there. You know their places are going to get changed... pretty predictable there. Didn't like the (day)dream and flashback sequences either - shown too often. But the chars were well crafted... he has that knack at least.

Perfume was simply sick. Powerful screenplay though.

Also, catch "The Last Starfighter" if you can. Old sci-fi flick, about a guy who plays video games involving blowing up space ships... then lands in a space ship blowing up spaceship. Great stuff, one of the hidden gems of sci-fi cinema.

 

[Krow]

^Suggestion Taken... Sci-fi fan happier than ever to find such hidden gems...