Linux leaders plot counterattack on Microsoft

[gxsaurav]

That is the problem with you. You don't know anything about FOSS licenses but want to project yourself as an omniscient one. FFDShow breaks numerous software patents and it CANNOT BE INCLUDED! It cannot be. Simple! It is not about money...it is about patents.

And you can buy a license to use the patented thing.

Yes I can't play my audio & video files in Windows. All of them are in OGG and Theora format. Can I play them in Windows out-of-the-box? If I can then I will accept your comments about codecs. Now, what should a user like me do? Download codecs? But you said it worked out of the box? It is funny that Windows users want Linux to support closed formats while Windows doesn't support completely open formats

Just tell me one thing. How many users out there use Ogg, how many use mp3 & how many use AAC.

1) If you are using mp3, it plays

2) If you are using AAC, chances are u r using iPod & iTunes so it plays

3) If you are using OGG, which is not a very popular format out there resulting in low acceptance then you also know how to search on google for FFDShow for Windows.

Trillian paid Yahoo! some fees? My google search brings NOTHING. Can you prove it or is it another one of your lies?
*www.google.co.in/search?q=trillian+paid+yahoo

Oh, so Trillian didn't paid Yahoo any fees, WOW, then how does Yahoo webcam & voice chat works in it . Hey, I am an average Joe, it works...gr8. Who cares for licensing fees etc.

All I am saying is that if trilian can support it in Trillian free then so can GAIM.

Are you the same user who was aggressively defending Graphics drivers for Windows vista being "work in progress"?

So, does graphics card driver constitutes 95% of the software market out thre? Guess what, XPDM works fine in Vista too...but Linux kernel 2.0 drive doesn't work in Linux kernel 2.6

Talks the guy who uses an OS that couldn't even get copy-paste working properly.

Are you confusing me with Arya?

That developers don't have time to include it in their tree. As simple as that.

HA HA HAHAAHHAAHAHAA, Dude this is 2007 & you are saying developers don't find it important enough to provide visual communication function in Pidgin...r u high on pot today.?

Anyways, here is one article from 2004...just to prove that vector graphics is being used for UI development in GNOME for that many years
*times.usefulinc.com/2004/03/03-gnomeui

i advice you to read that article again & try to find out how easy/tough it is to make XAML apps compared to Glade. would be an eye opener for you. If GNOME is using it, then why don't I see it in current GNOME version?

Something which i would like to Quote from the article u gave.

XUL is the user interface language used in the Mozilla project. There are other implementations, but Mozilla is the only realistic game in town. XUL was around doing what XAML does before XAML ever existed. So why the heck aren't we using it? Problems include

• XUL has a steep learning curve. Docs have been slow to come, especially at the beginning.
• Dealing with Mozilla is painful. Very painful. Experience with embedding Mozilla in programs like Epiphany shows it to be a moving target, and it's difficult to get bugs fixed back in the core. Up until now the Mozilla project had very little resource devoted to embedding uses.
• Mozilla XUL is not native UI. This is the big stinker with cross platform UI. It just won't look as nice or interoperate as well as programs written in the native UI toolkit.

OMG.. What the hell....how can it be tough,. it doesn't work properly & is hard to make apps in it. Damn you MS for releasing XAML & WPF which makes it really simple for developers to make UI.

This is more of a grab-bag solution for now. Various projects have used and are using HTML for rapid UI development. The Evolution mail reader is the most prominent among these. SVG is starting to be deployed well on the GNOME desktop.
These solutions have the big problem however that they totally miss the native look and feel. Microsoft themselves went down the HTML-as-UI route and I think proved its difficulties. Neither do the current HTML and SVG libraries have any scripting support. So we're really just limited to document-like display. Also, all of the GtkHTML libraries are rather crusty, especially compared to things like Mozilla.

I believe the GNOME project and the open source desktop community at large can make a response to Microsoft. But we need to recognise a key economic constraint for would-be adopters. This constraint is developer time. Microsoft licensing and support is cheap compared to the time spent in creating applications. To get the cost of Linux desktop deployment down, we need to drive down the cost of application development.

 

[Desi-Tek.com]

does vlc support iso image on windows too?
@gx_saurav if i am right than lotus notes (Domino) is a email server and it support linux and lotus notes is more popular than server exchange.
list of linux based open source email server
(Postfix, Procmail, Fetchmail, SpamBayes, Courier-imap, Mutt, SquirrelMail)

 

[gxsaurav]

@gx_saurav if i am right than lotus notes (Domino) is a email server and it support linux and lotus notes is more popular than server exchange.

Lotus notes is also paid & whether a company uses Lotes Notes or Exchange server depends on there requirement.

list of linux based open source email server
(Postfix, Procmail, Fetchmail, SpamBayes, Courier-imap, Mutt, SquirrelMail)

Yup, there are alternatives just like Pidgin is Alternative to Trillian on Windows. But how good is the alternative?

 

[eddie]

And you can buy a license to use the patented thing.

...and FFDShow is not that thing. It simply breaks too many patents to be included.

Just tell me one thing. How many users out there use Ogg, how many use mp3 & how many use AAC.

When I want to use an OS...do I want to run a survey around the world or do I want to listen to my music? Windows does not play my audio and video files, out of the box, even though Microsoft won't need to pay even a dime to include the support. Do you call that "out of the box" experience? Puhlease!

So, does graphics card driver constitutes 95% of the software market out thre?

The point is that there are work in progress stuff that needs to be included in main stream.

Are you confusing me with Arya?

No...I confused Vista's shortcoming. Change copy-paste to deletion of files. Even simpler process

HA HA HAHAAHHAAHAHAA, Dude this is 2007 & you are saying developers don't find it important enough to provide visual communication function in Pidgin...r u high on pot today.?

HA HA HA HA HA HA. Dude they are working for free and are not your slaves. They will work as, when and how they want to. If you want something so badly...code! Are you high on pot today?

i advice you to read that article again & try to find out how easy/tough it is to make XAML apps compared to Glade. would be an eye opener for you. If GNOME is using it, then why don't I see it in current GNOME version?

The point of the article was to make you understand that vector graphics is being used in GNOME for UI development since 2004 but clearly you are too stupid to understand the same. Also, who says that you don't see it in GNOME? Go and use it you moron...you will see it. Most of the graphics uses SVG!!!

...which makes it really simple for developers to make UI.

Your stupidity fails me. When a thread was talking about users using Vector graphics in UI...you start tooting your horn about developers? Tch tch...

BTW...I am just guessing that you won't be talking about all the other points like Superkarmaba ... RIAA ... out of the box experience ... me saying microsoft is evil and mandriva's advertisements now?

 

[Desi-Tek.com]

all the popular free email service providers including rediff mail, yahoo, gmail, aol r using opensource mail server on linux

 

[praka123]

^^How ! they cant do that OMG My dear window$
/sarcasm

 

[mediator]

If you know this is part of business then shut up & stop calling MS evil. Instead let users know if Linux can make there life easier.

Why r u getting aggravated? Its that business spreading FUDs that hurts the entire FOSS community and if u can't swallow their replies and reactions then please "shut up & stop poncing around"!

Like I said, Microsoft is not even allowed to integrate features in there own OS. I hope you know about the Real Player lawsuit & the recent Google Lawsuit. If they ditch DRM in Vista,

Like u "dont care" why Ubuntu and others, who respect the ideologies of FOSS, don't give out of box experience likewise an average joe or a customer isn't interested if MS was allowed or not!! Have a taste of ur medicine first!

1) Most of the consumers will not be able to Play DRM based HD DVDs in there PC & will then blame MS for it.

2) Microsoft also works under the regulation of government bodies like RIAA & MPAA & it must comply to the rules imposed by these bodies. DoJ ordered MS to alter the search functionality in Vista & now they are forced to do it.

3) If they have no support for DRM in Vista, then they loose a big market of offline users who are not geeks like we are & don't know how to install that crack to play Batman Begins HD.

U want an average joe to know all such things? They r customers not analaysts!

I have access to internet & knowledge base. Does my Mom have access? no. Why don't we see the ADs of Mandrive in Times of India or Mint Linux. Hell, why don't we see ADs of Mandrive in digit magazine.

What has ADs to do with clarifying our matters here unless it has to do something with FUDS? I already said MS is a leader becoz of its business and that doesn't necessarily means superior products.

Eddie just mentioned that Beryl is a work in progress. Well, when the work is done & it works properly without crashing then let me know. .

We'll he just told the fact, but we often heard win-fanboys telling how XP or even 98 "never" got BSODs!! Even Billgates got a BSOD in his presentation. Do u think he got installed pirated windows OS or non-genuine drivers?

And about the work, yea it rarely crashed on my system even when it was released newly. I guess I was the lucky one then!! Beryl with Gnome works like a charm. I dont know about KDE coz I dont use KDE!!

About looking good then Mac OS X looks the most beautiful but does nothing

Thats something maccies have to say more about!

ISO files are CD Images, you tell me whether any OSS Media Player can play them without mounting or extracting somewhere first. If it can play without mounting or extracting then sure WMP can play it too with some plugins.

Ur inexperience! It seems u r deliberately bringing the concepts of "mounting" and "extraction". Its common for apps to extract the contents into the memory. Can WMP open iso files and play them just like playing another mp3 or wma file? And do name the plugins coz I want them!

Despite of DRM, why do u think iTunes & iPod became success, just cos despite of DRM people were able to get there favorite songs at $1 only instead of buying a whole CD for $12. DRM is bad but for many users out there they don't care cos all they have is one DAP like iPod & it works for them

U think the same thing will happen everywhere then?

I dont care about Ipod, its the freedom that matters to me and I guess the modern mobile phones r nicely doing the stuff. U'll find more people carrying mobiles and listening to music on it than using IPOD. Thats the reality atleast in Delhi. "Wow" is the word I also used when a friend of mine showed me IPOD the first time coz thats what was fed into my mind that IPOD is great, but in actual I never gave it a second thought.

Oh, so Trillian didn't paid Yahoo any fees, WOW, then how does Yahoo webcam & voice chat works in it . Hey, I am an average Joe, it works...gr8. Who cares for licensing fees etc.
All I am saying is that if trilian can support it in Trillian free then so can GAIM.

Who cares if MS will get sued or not for for providing MS-Office, drivers, photoshop,yahoo messenger, Opera, winzip etc etc and support for all the codecs in the software world "out of box".

I dunno why r u so after GAIM, when u have been told about GYach.

 

[gxsaurav]

...and FFDShow is not that thing. It simply breaks too many patents to be included.

Oh...that makes me wonder why it still exists.? Shouldn't FFDSow be sued then? Oh wait, FFDShow's foundation is the open source FFMpeg specification which is based on the Mojo codebase.

When I want to use an OS...do I want to run a survey around the world or do I want to listen to my music? Windows does not play my audio and video files, out of the box, even though Microsoft won't need to pay even a dime to include the support. Do you call that "out of the box" experience?

Well in this case the problem is centered to you only. Deal with it eddie. 99% users out there don't use OGG so why should MS support something they have not made in Windows? Do u think support means just including the codec in Windows. Dude it is not made by MS if a user has a problem with OGG playback in Windows do u think MS will be able to help them?

In Windows if there is a problem I simply search on google or ask some friend. If I have a problem on Linux I m told to RTFM.

HA HA HA HA HA HA. Dude they are working for free and are not your slaves. They will work as, when and how they want to. If you want something so badly...code! Are you high on pot today?

I am ready to pay $10 for Pidgin if they charge me, with support for such features in Linux. Hey why should I code for it in Pidgin when I can simply use Free Yahoo Messenger in Windows. . I know Pidgin & I know it is free, u know this....now go & tell this to John Doe.

Puhlease! The point is that there are work in progress stuff that needs to be included in main stream.

Then do so & when it is complete, come back here & talk.

The point of the article was to make you understand that vector graphics is being used in GNOME for UI development since 2004 b

Really, where? Your own quoted article showed that making Glade or XUL apps isn't that easy compared to XAML due to which most developers are shy to use it.

all the popular free email service providers including rediff mail, yahoo, gmail, aol r using opensource mail server on linux

How do you know what server they are using ;-? did the came to u & told u this?

U want an average joe to know all such things? They r customers not analaysts!

Eggjactly, & thats why Vista will suit there needs better cos it can play HD DVD etc while Linux cannot.

Ur inexperience! It seems u r deliberately bringing the concepts of "mounting" and "extraction". Its common for apps to extract the contents into the memory. Can WMP open iso files and play them just like playing another mp3 or wma file? And do name the plugins coz I want them!

You mean Some Linux media player extracts a 700 MB Dat file from the ISO to RAM. hELP ME HERE.

I dont care about Ipod, its the freedom that matters to me and I guess the modern mobile phones r nicely doing the stuff. U'll find more people carrying mobiles and listening to music on it than using IPOD. Thats the reality atleast in Delhi. "Wow" is the word I also used when a friend of mine showed me IPOD the first time coz thats what was fed into my mind that IPOD is great, but in actual I never gave it a second thought.

Centered to u only.

Who cares if MS will get sued or not for for providing MS-Office, drivers, photoshop,yahoo messenger, Opera, winzip etc etc and support for all the codecs in the software world "out of box".

Even I don't care, but MS has to run a bussiness & they have to comply by the rules imposed by the goverment bodies.

 

[praka123]

I am ready to pay $10 for Pidgin if they charge me, with support for such features in Linux. Hey why should I code for it in Pidgin when I can simply use Free Yahoo Messenger in Windows. . I know Pidgin & I know it is free, u know this....now go & tell this to John Doe.

This is a basic ideology problem.Hope u can understand below lines:

Problem #3: Culture shock

Subproblem #3a: There is a culture

Windows users are more or less in a customer-supplier relationship: They pay for software, for warranties, for support, and so on. They expect software to have a certain level of usability. They are therefore used to having rights with their software: They have paid for technical support and have every right to demand that they receive it. They are also used to dealing with entities rather than people: Their contracts are with a company, not with a person.
Linux users are in more of a community. They don't have to buy the software, they don't have to pay for technical support. They download software for free & use Instant Messaging and web-based forums to get help. They deal with people, not corporations.
A Windows user will not endear himself by bringing his habitual attitudes over to Linux, to put it mildly.
The biggest cause of friction tends to be in the online interactions: A "3a" user new to Linux asks for help with a problem he's having. When he doesn't get that help at what he considers an acceptable rate, he starts complaining and demanding more help. Because that's what he's used to doing with paid-for tech support. The problem is that this isn't paid-for support. This is a bunch of volunteers who are willing to help people with problems out of the goodness of their hearts. The new user has no right to demand anything from them, any more than somebody collecting for charity can demand larger donations from contributors.
In much the same way, a Windows user is used to using commercial software. Companies don't release software until it's reliable, functional, and user-friendly enough. So this is what a Windows user tends to expect from software: It starts at version 1.0. Linux software, however, tends to get released almost as soon as it's written: It starts at version 0.1. This way, people who really need the functionality can get it ASAP; interested developers can get involved in helping improve the code; and the community as a whole stays aware of what's going on.
If a "3a" user runs into trouble with Linux, he'll complain: The software hasn't met his standards, and he thinks he has a right to expect that standard. His mood won't be improved when he gets sarcastic replies like "I'd demand a refund if I were you"
So, to avoid problem #3a: Simply remember that you haven't paid the developer who wrote the software or the people online who provide the tech support. They don't owe you anything.

*linux.oneandoneis2.org/LNW.htm

 

[gxsaurav]

:Yawn: Prakash & his Long ads who has time to read all.

 

[mediator]

In Windows if there is a problem I simply search on google or ask some friend. If I have a problem on Linux I m told to RTFM

On windows, I went to MS sites which culdn't solve 90% of my problems and then asked if the solution was satisfactory and my friends are "average joes"!!

I am ready to pay $10 for Pidgin if they charge me, with support for such features in Linux. Hey why should I code for it in Pidgin when I can simply use Free Yahoo Messenger in Windows. . I know Pidgin & I know it is free, u know this....now go & tell this to John Doe.

U keep analysing MS, but have u ever researched why GAIM was even renamed to pidgin?

 

[eddie]

Oh...that makes me wonder why it still exists.? Shouldn't FFDSow be sued then? Oh wait, FFDShow's foundation is the open source FFMpeg specification which is based on the Mojo codebase.

Do you think every patent or copyright infringing thing on internet gets sued?

Well in this case the problem is centered to you only. Deal with it eddie. 99% users out there don't use OGG so why should MS support something they have not made in Windows? Do u think support means just including the codec in Windows. Dude it is not made by MS if a user has a problem with OGG playback in Windows do u think MS will be able to help them?

Then why should Linux distros support MP3? You were talking about out of the box experience and my music files don't play. I need to whine...just like you guys do. BTW...I gave you loads of other examples as well...time for Windows to "improve" out of the box experience?

I am ready to pay $10 for Pidgin if they charge me, with support for such features in Linux.

Go and use GyachI and donate them 10 dollars.

Then do so & when it is complete, come back here & talk.

Time for you to look at Vista's graphics support and file deletions?

Really, where?

Do you wear glasses? It clearly mention ------- SVG is starting to be deployed well on the GNOME desktop....and this was in 2004. Use GNOME now and you'll know.

How do you know what server they are using ;-? did the came to u & told u this?

Rediff
*toolbar.netcraft.com/site_report?url=*www.rediff.com
Yahoo!
*toolbar.netcraft.com/site_report?url=www.yahoo.com
Gmail
*toolbar.netcraft.com/site_report?url=www.gmail.com

 

[mediator]

Eggjactly, & thats why Vista will suit there needs better cos it can play HD DVD etc while Linux

cannot.

Eggjactly, thats how MS loots them coz they r just customers and not analysts!

You mean Some Linux media player extracts a 700 MB Dat file from the ISO to RAM. hELP ME HERE.

Did u ever passed in ur aptitude exams? When did I say something heinous like that 700MB? Please don't twist the statements according to ur thinking level and to ur likings! BTW u still didn't answer me! Can WMP open iso files and play them just like playing another mp3 or wma file?

Even I don't care, but MS has to run a bussiness & they have to comply by the rules imposed by the goverment bodies.

Point is again who cares and the poor average joe has to spend all day long to install everything on windows i.e drivers, winzip, anti-virus, anti-spyware, firewall, MS-office, yahoo mesenger and various other things to make windows actually usable, opening and putting drivers and softwares CD one by one leaving him totally exhausted. And do u think all these softwares are genuine? Add the extra time that is spent to get them cracked before using them!!

Even a geek wud be afraid of the 1000 rounds of "next next next", "I accept stupid agreement", "restart", open/close cd tray and various rounds of hangups!! And not to mention that u'll have to apply that "file deletion" update everytime if u reinstall VISTA! What a joke!

 

[kumarmohit]

So Hostilities have commenced and are in full swing

 

[gxsaurav]

Did u ever passed in ur aptitude exams? When did I say something heinous like that 700MB? Please don't twist the statements according to ur thinking level and to ur likings! BTW u still didn't answer me! Can WMP open iso files and play them just like playing another mp3 or wma file?

I guess you forgot to read the line I posted above

ISO files are CD Images, you tell me whether any OSS Media Player can play them without mounting or extracting somewhere first. If it can play without mounting or extracting then sure WMP can play it too with some plugins.

Then you said it extracts to RAM. Suppose I have a 700 MB VCD ISO having one AVSEQ01.DAT file, then according to your theory, Linux media player will extract 700 MB TO RAM & then play . Tell me if any media player on Linux including VLC can play it without mounting first.

Point is again who cares and the poor average joe has to spend all day long to install everything on windows i.e drivers, winzip, anti-virus, anti-spyware, firewall, MS-office, yahoo mesenger and various other things to make windows actually usable, opening and putting drivers and softwares CD one by one leaving him totally exhausted. And do u think all these softwares are genuine? Add the extra time that is spent to get them cracked before using them!!

There are 2 kind of users out there

1) Average Joe who usually buy HP or Dell, they don't need to think about anything. Everything is already installed. They can simply call the service guy & he will do it for them

2) Geeks like us who know what we are doing & just like you linux users don't mind installing new version every week, we Windows users also don't mind installing Windows Vista once, configure it & make a disk image. Then forget about it (My case, Vista was installed in December 2006)

And not to mention that u'll have to apply that "file deletion" update every time if u reinstall VISTA! What a joke!

And not to mention I have to run synaptic to install packages out there every week or every time I reinstall Linux, despite of having all files in cache, just cos synaptic found a new v X.X.X.1 update.

I am sorry, unless this thread is moved to Fight Club, I won't post anymore here.

Linux can try all it can to counter attack MS, they will fail. The only way is to work together & use some of Microsoft's technologies in Linux.

 

[vish786]

what a blunder, such an disgusting discussion.... leading in no proper direction.

its well said Adha pani ka ghada jyada awaaz karta hai(empty vessels make more noise)

 

[eddie]

Tell me if any media player on Linux including VLC can play it without mounting first.

Yes yes yes! How many times do we have to tell you this? VLC plays ISO files like normal media files. Now you understand???

There are 2 kind of users out there

1) Average Joe who usually buy HP or Dell, they don't need to think about anything. Everything is already installed. They can simply call the service guy & he will do it for them

Bull!!! Do you think all the assembled PC owners are geeks? BS!!! Don't you ever feel ashamed while lying so blatantly? Oh I forgot...your are gx_saurav...you were never ashamed of lying

And not to mention I have to run synaptic to install packages out there every week or every time I reinstall Linux, despite of having all files in cache, just cos synaptic found a new v X.X.X.1 update.

What? You are never forced to update. If you want to update...do it...if you don't want to do an update...don't do it. It will still not affect your file deletions

I am sorry, unless this thread is moved to Fight Club, I won't post anymore here.

As usual...you have been completely pwned...left with no points whatsoever to put on the table and then you leave like a sore loser. Typical GX.

Linux can try all it can to counter attack MS, they will fail. The only way is to work together & use some of Microsoft's technologies in Linux.

Your master Microsoft doesn't think so. If it is all being done for Linux's betterment then why do we see Microsoft knocking every distro's door rather than the exact opposite?

 

[Desi-Tek.com]

I guess you forgot to read the line I posted above

Then you said it extracts to RAM. Suppose I have a 700 MB VCD ISO having one AVSEQ01.DAT file, then according to your theory, Linux media player will extract 700 MB TO RAM & then play . Tell me if any media player on Linux including VLC can play it without mounting first.

i guess not in ram but in temp folder!

 

[gxsaurav]

i guess not in ram but in temp folder!

Nope, according to meditator it extracts in RAM

If it extracts in temp folder then it is equal to Windows method of first mounting & then playing or just opening the ISO file with WinRAR & extracting.

 

[eddie]

i guess not in ram but in temp folder!

No it does not extract the ISO anywhere. It plays just like you would play an AVI/MP4 or any other format video file. Straight forward play back...no extraction...