Linux leaders plot counterattack on Microsoft

[Zeeshan Quireshi]

After all this is their product and their consumers. When you buy iPod, do you expect Microsoft to make iTune for it?

Well it is Microsoft's product and they are supporting it on the platform with the largest share .

also , Mac OSX developers have made apps to work with windows mobile although microsoft didn't commision them to do so .

so , there's no incentive to switch over to linux when u already have all the stuff you need .

ppl will only switch when linux suports their devices "out of the box" , which is a thing linux developers have to take care of not Microsoft.

You don't want to share information about the device but want us to support it and we took you wish for grunted.

here all the information you will ever need to know about developing for the Windows Mobile platform on Microsoft Developer Network..

*msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/windowsmobile/default.aspx

 

[gxsaurav]

here all the information you will ever need to know about developing for the Windows Mobile platform on Microsoft Developer Network..

*msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/win...e/default.aspx

Lingeeks will never see that link. They don't do research on MS technologies at all, if they start doing then even ubuntu will have Nokia PC Suite equivalent

 

[kumarmohit]

Hmph, I wanted to stay away from this debate but with fanboys having swords drawn on both sides, I think I must make a last ditch effort for peace.

The problem of or should I say weakness of Linux Zealots is that most of the time, instead of pointing out with solid facts and features about their products which make them better than CLOSED Source products, they are always criticising Microsoft for being a devil of a company (Which it is to a certain extent).

Same is the case with windows fanboys who keep on claiming wat a failure or a me too success Linux has been?

(Need I mention ppl for apple who think that everything not coming out from Cupertino should go straight away to a trashcan)

But the basic strategy drawback of FOSS movement in general and Linux fundamentalists in particular is that instead of trying to project their product as superior, they concentrate more on talking about MS making inferior product.

But even if MS does make inferior products why is it successful?
Because not many people who use computers but do no know how it works, for example, the cashier at the bank counter, or Indian Railways Ticket counter clerk or your University's administrative staff either DO NOT know of something called Linux, most of those who know think its still stuck @ CLI. I am in a law college and in my class of 80 67 ppl have computers, of these 23 have heard of linux and I am the only one ever to have seen a beryl screenshot. One girl who has no computer she has heard about linux though she has never used it because her brother is "RHCE or other some cap like thing " in her words.

People on the road are not concerned how evil MS is!!!. They look for actual benefits. And how can they know about it? What made FFx run a two page ad in a major newspaper?

Linux is ruling where ppl are aware of its power ie in server mkt, its there not because MS is evil, its there because Linux is better. Remember No OS is perferct, If Windows has th blue screen of death, Linux is also plagued by Kernel panic, If Linux has the Dependency Hell, Windows has the DLL hell. while all this is becoming lesser it still happens.

And when this happens to a normal computer user he gets scared to death in any case. So instead of having aggressive negotiations on how MS is evil or FOSS is a failure, why do not we people concentrate more on how an end user can benefit from each????

 

[gxsaurav]

Wasn't it a Linux foundation which was on the verge to Kill Vista, i guess Mark Shuttleworth was the founder of that too...

& who is running badvista.org?

& Who sings the same tune "Vista has DRM".

Lingeeks, deal with it. if Vista has DRM then it also allows u to play DRM content which believe it or not is the only thing available to many users worldwide. It isn't Microsoft which included DRM in Vista, it was the RIAA & MPAA which forced MS to do so.

El Jobso revealed Leopard a few days ago but there is no mention whether it can play DRM content or not. The existing Macs do not come with HDCP based graphics cards either. This means all the Macboys running Macbook, Macbook Pro or iMac can forget to ever play HD DVD & Blue Ray content, cos to play them they will need to buy a completely new Mac with a new HD Drive & Graphics Card. Even if you use an external Drive, you still cannot play cos your Macbook or iMac comes without a HDCP based graphics card.

Vista can play Blue Ray or HD DVD out of the box due to DRM in it, Linux cannot. Do you expect a consumer to use Linux & then rely on internet to download & research for so many packages when the state of broadband is pathetic in India.

There are always hacks though but how many people know about it.

Instead of singing why MS is evil & monopoly, get your gears straight & make something compelling enough to give Microsoft a competition in Desktop state.

 

[kumarmohit]

No GX, the problem is that FOSS does have better alternatives, but instead of telling people how their product is better, they consider it a better pasttime to bash Closed source products and tell how bad they are?

Take 7Zip why is it not more popular than winzip or Winrar despite being much better, Take Miranda IM snd compare it to MSN, Miranda does a lot more things from multi protocol IM to RSS and weather updates and everything there are plugins for.

Why was FFx a success, coz instead of concentrating more on how bad IE is they concentrated on how FFx is better!

FOSS people, Do not tell people what the problem is unless you also shout equally loudly that you have a better reply and how is it better (Which you have in a lot of cases, infact in almost 99% cases)

 

[gxsaurav]

Not quite, from what I see there are many things I can do in Windows Vista which I cannot in Linux due to lack of feature. But thats just my point of view.

 

[Zeeshan Quireshi]

Take 7Zip why is it not more popular than winzip or Winrar despite being much better

i worldn't comment on the better part but of all things , it is FREE and that's what matters .

i've been telling everyone i know to , use 7Zip ever since i used it, firstly bcoz it is free and secondly it's install size is just 700Kb so u can easily download it or fit it into any media.

 

[mediator]

Instead of singing why MS is evil & monopoly, get your gears straight & make something compelling enough to give Microsoft a competition in Desktop state.

Competition? I wonder what made MS suffer a major constipation that it shouted so much about the 230+ patents that it thought were being infringed by OSS!!

Surely if MS likes to spread FUDs and its fanboys following those preachings and stating about the 10 year old face of Linux then I guess acknowledging the masses of the evils of MS and its "closed source" products, which I guess they had a hard time to code even the basics properly and then shamelessly releasing an update for it, is nuthing in comparison at all!

If the MS-fanboys need a truce then they shud tell their boss and their beloved company to stop spreading FUDS. But is it possible? Even thinking of such a possibility wud be a big joke itself!!

 

[gxsaurav]

^^^ So, MS is the only one spreading FUD & it is not the other way arround, right? I wonder why slashdot.org downplayes MS so much, or Apple downplays MS so much then.

Even in this forum, Linux users are spreading FUD by saying Vista has DRM in such a manner that we won't be able to use any of our video/audio, which is not the case.

 

[eddie]

So instead of having aggressive negotiations on how MS is evil or FOSS is a failure, why do not we people concentrate more on how an end user can benefit from each????

The problem with your whole post is that you are advising something that is not feasible for cash strapped FOSS community and that thing is "marketing". FOSS community does not have enough money to do marketing and reach the end users successfully...so what do they do? They sit silently and work on their projects until provoked by the Closed Source operators like Microsoft. What options does the community have except strongly condemning the whole FUD operations? If that results in to aggressive arguments then they are bound to happen.

What do you suggest for FOSS community BTW? Sit silently and not clear out the FUD that is being spread?

Wasn't it a Linux foundation which was on the verge to Kill Vista, i guess Mark Shuttleworth was the founder of that too...

& who is running badvista.org?

& Who sings the same tune "Vista has DRM".

Lingeeks, deal with it.

Wasn't it Microsoft that wants to kill Linux and tried to do it by bribing SCO & hammering on Linux roots?

Who was behind get the facts campaign and survey?

Who sings the same tune that FOSS products infringe patents?

Microidiots deal with it.

Vista can play Blue Ray or HD DVD out of the box due to DRM in it, Linux cannot.

Didn't we hear the same things when DVD region locking was becoming popular? Yes we did and what is the situation now? Linux can play all the DVDs. Thank you for your concern but this is utter BS.

 

[kumarmohit]

The problem with your whole post is that you are advising something that is not feasible for cash strapped FOSS community and that thing is "marketing". FOSS community does not have enough money to do marketing and reach the end users successfully...so what do they do? They sit silently and work on their projects until provoked by the Closed Source operators like Microsoft. What options does the community have except strongly condemning the whole FUD operations? If that results in to aggressive arguments then they are bound to happen.

What do you suggest for FOSS community BTW? Sit silently and not clear out the FUD that is being spread?

AWww Come on, Dont tell me that FOSS community is cash strapped! This is the most <Heck I cant find the proper word> argument i have ever heard. Matthew Szulik, Mark Shuttleworth, Hundreds of thousands of donaters from all over the world and FOSS has no money!

Spare me this argument.

No do not sit silently against the FUD it would be worse than agreeing to it. But instead of shouting youself hoarse wat a devil incarnate MS is tell why and how is FOSS better. Do not keep on beating the drum of problems until you can couple it with the music of your solution!

If you call it marketing so be it! Do it! Its a helluva lot better than propaganda. Because most of the people in the offline world find the constant anti MS bickering by FOSS community to be a form of propaganda and Crusading which FOSS fundamentalists think they are doing gets unknowingly morphed into propaganda.

Do not tell people how bad MS is. People of the world are intelligent enuf to decide when MS is crossing the Lakshman Rekha. Let them decide the culpabililty of MS. How can FOSS be the judge in case where it is the opposite party?

The principle of natural justice is that no one who is a party to a dispute or competetion, can be allowed to be its judge. Unfortunately this is what FOSS fundamentalists try to be most of the times.

So all MS fanboys and linux fundamentalists please let the end user be the final judge and stop criticising each other.

 

[gxsaurav]

If you wanna counter Microsoft, then make something good enough for the end user. Make "Essential Linux Apps" packages of 200 or 300 MB & bundle them with CD of magazines like Digit or Chip.

Market the pain Linux distro's more.

include propriety codecs in paid linux. No consumer cares if it is propriety or not if it works fine & right now, Linux doesn't work out of the box right how while Windows & Mac work. Learn something from Firefox that instead of *****ing about IE 7 came out with something which appealed to the masses.

And for gods sake, learn to read the documentation provided by Yahoo, MSN, Office 2007, Windows Mobile etc. If you think Yahoo protocol is locked then how do u think Trillian is supporting webcam using Yahoo Protocol? (example).

If you think Linux is good, then prove it. Right now Linux is good just for geeks. Ubuntu 6.06 didn't even came with a Dial-up internet dialer, you had to download it, now u tell me if this is good. The majority of world & computer users out there are off line & they don't know anything beyond Windows & Mac cos that works out of the box. Windows installs anywhere, support is easily available, everything works in it, now you tell me why should a user jump to linux like this. I have seen users here who left Linux & went to buy Vista Home Premium retail despite of Linux being free just cos Linux was cumbersome for them to work. Your first job should be to make this cumbersomeness go.

You call Beryl good? It doesn't work with most of the graphics card out there, it is quite unstable & Woobly windows & Cube doesn't makes it better then Aero. Vector & Resolution independent UI will or better yet something like WPF/Aqua in which the Windows are treated as textures parallel to Monitor because of which there is no Window or Palette tearing

 

[eddie]

AWww Come on, Dont tell me that FOSS community is cash strapped! This is the most <Heck I cant find the proper word> argument i have ever heard. Matthew Szulik, Mark Shuttleworth, Hundreds of thousands of donaters from all over the world and FOSS has no money!

Do you really think that Redhat and Canonical have even remotely comparable financial strength to compete Microsoft on marketing turf? If you think so then I also can't find proper words to describe your thinking. BTW if Redhat and Canonical does have the amount of money you tend to believe then what makes them not go all out against Microsoft in marketing? Do you think they are greedy or are they miser?

BTW...did you ever donate to Ubuntu? Just wondering...not questioning.

No do not sit silently against the FUD it would be worse than agreeing to it. But instead of shouting youself hoarse wat a devil incarnate MS is tell why and how is FOSS better. Do not keep on beating the drum of problems until you can couple it with the music of your solution!

No one...and I repeat NO ONE beats the drum of problems FOSS community faces. All the blog posts and other articles you see condemning Microsoft would be straight forward fact sheets explaining people that how MS has been and is lying. I don't see how to make things clearer in any other way.

If you call it marketing so be it! Do it! Its a helluva lot better than propaganda. Because most of the people in the offline world find the constant anti MS bickering by FOSS community to be a form of propaganda and Crusading which FOSS fundamentalists think they are doing gets unknowingly morphed into propaganda.

I wonder about your knowledge regarding "offline world". I mean offline world can see that FOSS community is "bickering" but they can't see Microsoft lying? Should I accept that statement or should I throw it back at you to review?

Do not tell people how bad MS is. People of the world are intelligent enuf to decide when MS is crossing the Lakshman Rekha. Let them decide the culpabililty of MS. How can FOSS be the judge in case where it is the opposite party?

...but no one decided anything. People just put the facts in front of other people. You call that propaganda? I call that providing proofs.

The principle of natural justice is that no one who is a party to a dispute or competetion, can be allowed to be its judge. Unfortunately this is what FOSS fundamentalists try to be most of the times.

Either you do not have the knowledge about the way FOSS is reacting against Microsoft's FUD or you have a flawed vision of things. No one is being a judge. The only thing FOSS community is doing is to provide facts about how Microsoft plays its dirty games. As far as natural justice is concerned...no one is trying to be a judge but putting one's allegations on table is allowed everywhere and thats what is being done.

 

[kumarmohit]

Oh Please, Dont tell me Shuttleworth is a poor fellow or Shipit wont have been raining free cds around the world nor RedHat has no money! Naturally they have money but why do it when you can get free of cost propaganda from overzealous FOSS fundametalists.

BTW...did you ever donate to Ubuntu? Just wondering...not questioning.

No I do not donate, but I do not use it either, I do donate to ReactOS FYI.

No one...and I repeat NO ONE beats the drum of problems FOSS community faces.

I am not talking about FOSS beating the drums of the problems it faces. In ALL my posts whenever I have used or the word problem or any such phrase, The phrase has always been used to refer to the monopolistic practises of MS, never in any other sense.

I wonder about your knowledge regarding "offline world". I mean offline world can see that FOSS community is "bickering" but they can't see Microsoft lying? Should I accept that statement or should I throw it back at you to review?

Again you underestimate the intelligence of Offline world. Naturally they can see through the marketing of MS and they regard constant bickering of FOSS fundamentalists as propaganda. For the offline world, Marketing is just an itch but propaganda is a pain! That's why I keep on telling FOSS fundamentalists to stop propagada and start marketing.

Let me clarify the difference in marketing and propaganda for everyone to understand - While marketing is laying more stress on the positive points of your products, propaganda is laying more stress on how the rival is out to make the world into its slave that is more stress on negatives of the rival.

...but no one decided anything. People just put the facts in front of other people. You call that propaganda? I call that providing proofs.

How, when, where???

You call sites like BadVista.org giving the facts?
Sorry but most people call it propaganda, because it focuses more protraying Vista as a bad product than portraying Linux as THE alternative to move on!

You give Vista DRM a devil's figurehead level in India!!!

Seriously dude! Is DRM a problem in India? Go ask some someone nextdoor if he knows what DRM is.

All along I have been crtical of the Overly Negative approach of FOSS Zealots regardless of it being against MS inparticular and closed source in general instead of being postive about how and why foss is better.

The only thing FOSS community is doing is to provide facts about how Microsoft plays its dirty games. As far as natural justice is concerned...no one is trying to be a judge but putting one's allegations on table is allowed everywhere and thats what is being done.

Not being the judge!!! Putting allegations is one thing, but shouting all the time that MS is a bad company like the deatheaters and its products are like the dark mark is giving judgement.

Most of the FOSS platforms do not give Closed source community a chance to reply before they start playing the judge jury and executioner. Same is it the other way back when closed source people do their FUD.

The problem is niether FOSS nor MS, the problem is bigotry and fudamentalism of the people who think it as their duty to be the technological masiha (evangelist, if you may please).

Try to lay more stress on how FOSS is good instead of shouting how bad MS is, Try to be positive for a change.

(Heck I am out of this, I wanted to bring peace, but fanboys and fundamentalists have made me a party to fight as well)

 

[eddie]

Market the pain Linux distro's more.

Give them money...it will be done.

include propriety codecs in paid linux. No consumer cares if it is propriety or not if it works fine & right now

...and leave themselves open to law suites?

Linux doesn't work out of the box right how while Windows does

Windows works out of the box? The hell man...an OS that wants its user to install chipset drivers works out of the box? You need to install your Sound card, LAN Card, modem drivers, webcam drivers, printer drivers, scanner drivers and don't know how many other drivers. I can't play my audio and video files in it...can't open my office documents in it...doesn't have a half decent image editor or instant messaging program and you call it working "out of the box"? Go and joke some place else.

If you think Yahoo protocol is locked then how do u think Trillian is supporting webcam using Yahoo Protocol? (example).

You have already been informed about GyachI. Also, if you think that Yahoo protocol is so "open" than how come Yahoo! and MSN induced frequent changes in their protocols just to lock out 3rd part instant messenger? The world is not as hunky dory as you think it is.

Ubuntu 6.06 didn't even came with a Dial-up internet dialer, you had to download it, now u tell me if this is good.

Ubuntu has network manager and you can configure your dial up connection from there. It was in System --> Administration --> Networking. You don't even need a separate program. It is good? Yes it is.

I have seen users here who left Linux & went to buy Vista Home Premium retail despite of Linux being free just cos Linux was cumbersome for them to work. Your first job should be to make this cumbersomeness go.

We have seen the opposite as well. People leaving Windows for Linux. Yours truly and many others are examples of the same. I don't know what cumbersomeness you are talking about.

You call Beryl good? It doesn't work with most of the graphics card out there, it is quite unstable & Woobly windows & Cube doesn't makes it better then Aero.

Beryl/Compiz is a work in progress. If you don't like cube and wobbly windows...disable them.

Vector & Resolution independent UI will or better yet something like WPF/Aqua in which the Windows are treated as textures parallel to Monitor because of which there is no Window or Palette tearing

Vector UI using SVG has been working for GNOME since sometime now.

 

[mediator]

^^^ So, MS is the only one spreading FUD & it is not the other way arround, right? I wonder why slashdot.org downplayes MS so much, or Apple downplays MS so much then.

Even in this forum, Linux users are spreading FUD by saying Vista has DRM in such a manner that we won't be able to use any of our video/audio, which is not the case.

Ofcors! But here we have the case where the No.1 company in the world is a leader in spreading FUDS. Thats also a part of business. So expecting peace from MS is "insensible"!!

And playing DRMed content, is supporting it. Why not boycott it?

No do not sit silently against the FUD it would be worse than agreeing to it. But instead of shouting youself hoarse wat a devil incarnate MS is tell why and how is FOSS better. Do not keep on beating the drum of problems until you can couple it with the music of your solution!

And thats what linux users are doing dear i.e telling "how FOSS is better" and then that better part becomes relative. Relative to what? Now the "closed source" concept will be obviously brought in between at some point of time to show the advantages of open source. Please ponder over the issue before showing ur noble mediation.

No consumer cares if it is propriety or not if it works fine & right now, Linux doesn't work out of the box right how while Windows & Mac work.

U think all the consumers are "average joes"? Why was Dell and others flooded with emails asking to give em Linux preinstalled? Don't u think it has "also" to do with "reduced prices"?
Neways I wonder when u'll stop singing the tune of "out of box" when there r so many Linux distros giving u that "out of box" experience!

You call Beryl good? It doesn't work with most of the graphics card out there, it is quite unstable & Woobly windows & Cube doesn't makes it better then Aero. Vector & Resolution independent UI will or better yet something like WPF/Aqua in which the Windows are treated as textures parallel to Monitor because of which there is no Window or Palette tearing

Again FUDs!!?? U think any feature that is not in Aero is unnecessary? BTW todays Linuxes IMO look far more beautiful than VISTA even without beryl.
Neways by ur analogy do u want me to label IIS as pathetic becoz it doesn't run on any other OS??

And I questioned if WMP can play media ISO files directly. I wonder why I didn't get any reply!

And please don't fill the discussion with comparisons now and start all over again!!

Seriously dude! Is DRM a problem in India? Go ask some someone nextdoor if he knows what DRM is.

On one hand u r preaching awareness and on other u think the enlightened souls will remain ignorant about DRM? Hypocrisy rulezz in ur mind!

 

[gxsaurav]

Did you read what I wrote? Paid Linux distributions like Mandriva etc can easily license prosperity codec & pay the codec vendor the licensing fees. Just include FFDShow for gods sake after paying license fees. The over cost of distribution will still be less then $100 which isn't much to pay for an OS if it can work.

The hell man...an OS that wants its user to install chipset drivers works out of the box? You need to install your Sound card, LAN Card, modem drivers, webcam drivers, printer drivers, scanner drivers and don't know how many other drivers. I can't play my audio and video files in it...can't open my office documents in it...doesn't have a half decent image editor or instant messaging program and you call it working "out of the box"? Go and joke some place else.

Lolz, due to Microsoft's market share, they are not even allowed to provide features in Windows now. I hope you saw the recent lawsuit by google which forced MS to change the Inbuilt search feature in Vista. Microsoft can't even provide the features in there own OS.

Microsoft isn't making the hardware. If someone is buying an OEM computer then everything is working already out of the box. If someone is buying retail & knows how to install Windows then he also knows how to put the Motherboard CD in the CD drive & auto-install all the drivers.

You can't play your audio & video files in Windows. U must be joking. Out of the box Windows Plays mp3, wma etc which you can extend using 3rd party codec. Out of the box Linux plays nothing which you can extend using 3rd party codec.

Sorry, Microsoft cannot bundle Office 2007 with Vista. They will get sued the next day just like OpenOffice created the FUD about "Microsoft locks you to there Office suite with .docx." Get this straight eddie, Microsoft Office is the standard out there & other office suits try to be something like it. OEM vendors provide option to install Office in computers, & for maximum users out there, Office 2007 Student edition is all they need. They get compatibility with maximum number other users out there using Office suits. What else do you call ease of use?

You have already been informed about GyachI. Also, if you think that Yahoo protocol is so "open" than how come Yahoo! and MSN induced frequent changes in their protocols just to lock out 3rd part instant messenger? The world is not as hunky dory as you think it is.

Trillian can do it after paying some fees to Yahoo. I am more then willing to pay $2 from my $100 OS if I can use all the features in Linux.

Beryl/Compiz is a work in progress. If you don't like cube and wobbly windows...disable them

Thats the thing. 95% of Linux applications are work in progress. even SuperKaramba has no themes so far. First complete the work & then release. What explanation will you give for Pidgin not supporting MSN Webcam when aMSN supports it

Vector UI using SVG has been working for GNOME since sometime now.

You got any Link or documentation for this?

 

[eddie]

No I do not donate, but I do not use it either, I do donate to ReactOS FYI.

Oh! Weird I did not see any marketing from ReactOS. The marketing efforts were not India centric or you did not donate enough?

Again you underestimate the intelligence of Offline world. Naturally they can see through the marketing of MS and they regard constant bickering of FOSS fundamentalists as propaganda. For the offline world, Marketing is just an itch but propaganda is a pain! That's why I keep on telling FOSS fundamentalists to stop propagada and start marketing.

It is funny that you say this just a few posts after you said that people have not even heard about Linux. They have never heard about Linux but they are already looking through the marketing of MS and FOSS "propaganda"? Hmm...cool!

Let me clarify the difference in marketing and propaganda for everyone to understand - While marketing is laying more stress on the positive points of your products, propaganda is laying more stress on how the rival is out to make the world into its slave that is more stress on negatives of the rival.

If this is the actual definition that you believe in then I don't see how FOSS is doing a propaganda. FOSS supporters just reply back to clear the FUD being spread by Microsoft.

You call sites like BadVista.org giving the facts?
Sorry but most people call it propaganda, because it focuses more protraying Vista as a bad product than portraying Linux as THE alternative to move on!

It just tells the world that DRM is not the solution. It is comparable to people agitating against reservations in studies or against non-vegetarianism. If it hurts...then its good...cos that is what it is intended to do. Also, it is funny that you never posted anything against Microsoft's patent claims but you are getting so touchy about a single website?

You give Vista DRM a devil's figurehead level in India!!!

Seriously dude! Is DRM a problem in India? Go ask some someone nextdoor if he knows what DRM is.

Ermm...is this you or someone else? Do you change stance so often and so fast?
*www.thinkdigit.com/forum/showthread.php?t=54815&highlight=yash+raj

All along I have been crtical of the Overly Negative approach of FOSS Zealots regardless of it being against MS inparticular and closed source in general instead of being postive about how and why foss is better.

FOSS community is doing everything they can to tell people why FOSS and Linux is better. If you post one link about badvista then I can post ten talking about "why linux". Just because you tend to see the negative side does not mean that is the only side to it.

Not being the judge!!! Putting allegations is one thing, but shouting all the time that MS is a bad company like the deatheaters and its products are like the dark mark is giving judgement.

Don't you think you are exaggerating it? "ALL THE TIME"? Seriously?

 

[gxsaurav]

Ofcors! But here we have the case where the No.1 company in the world is a leader in spreading FUDS. Thats also a part of business. So expecting peace from MS is "insensible"!!

If you know this is part of business then shut up & stop calling MS evil. Instead let users know if Linux can make there life easier.

And playing DRMed content, is supporting it. Why not boycott it?

Like I said, Microsoft is not even allowed to integrate features in there own OS. I hope you know about the Real Player lawsuit & the recent Google Lawsuit. If they ditch DRM in Vista, then...

1) Most of the consumers will not be able to Play DRM based HD DVDs in there PC & will then blame MS for it.

2) Microsoft also works under the regulation of government bodies like RIAA & MPAA & it must comply to the rules imposed by these bodies. DoJ ordered MS to alter the search functionality in Vista & now they are forced to do it.

3) If they have no support for DRM in Vista, then they loose a big market of offline users who are not geeks like we are & don't know how to install that crack to play Batman Begins HD.

And thats what linux users are doing dear i.e telling "how FOSS is better" and then that better part becomes relative.

From what I have seen by Eddie & Prakash's advertising skills, it is more like saying "Get away from MS, they are devil's incarnation....noooooooooooo get out of Windows....move , shooo"

U think all the consumers are "average joes"? Why was Dell and others flooded with emails asking to give em Linux preinstalled? Don't u think it has "also" to do with "reduced prices"?

Thats the only benefit. I hope you know that in China some OEM Manufactures were ordered not to sale a PC without an OS cos it increases piracy.

Neways I wonder when u'll stop singing the tune of "out of box" when there r so many Linux distros giving u that "out of box" experience!

I have access to internet & knowledge base. Does my Mom have access? no. Why don't we see the ADs of Mandrive in Times of India or Mint Linux. Hell, why don't we see ADs of Mandrive in digit magazine.

Again FUDs!!?? U think any feature that is not in Aero is unnecessary? BTW todays Linuxes IMO look far more beautiful than VISTA even without beryl.

Eddie just mentioned that Beryl is a work in progress. Well, when the work is done & it works properly without crashing then let me know. About looking good then Mac OS X looks the most beautiful but does nothing.

And I questioned if WMP can play media ISO files directly. I wonder why I didn't get any reply!

ISO files are CD Images, you tell me whether any OSS Media Player can play them without mounting or extracting somewhere first. If it can play without mounting or extracting then sure WMP can play it too with some plugins.

On one hand u r preaching awareness and on other u think the enlightened souls will remain ignorant about DRM? Hypocrisy rulezz in ur mind!

Despite of DRM, why do u think iTunes & iPod became success, just cos despite of DRM people were able to get there favorite songs at $1 only instead of buying a whole CD for $12. DRM is bad but for many users out there they don't care cos all they have is one DAP like iPod & it works for them.

 

[eddie]

Did you read what I wrote? Paid Linux distributions like Mandriva etc can easily license prosperity codec & pay the codec vendor the licensing fees. Just include FFDShow for gods sake after paying license fees. The over cost of distribution will still be less then $100 which isn't much to pay for an OS if it can work.

That is the problem with you. You don't know anything about FOSS licenses but want to project yourself as an omniscient one. FFDShow breaks numerous software patents and it CANNOT BE INCLUDED! It cannot be. Simple! It is not about money...it is about patents.

Lolz, due to Microsoft's market share, they are not even allowed to provide features in Windows now.

A few moments ago you were talking about "out of the box" experience and suddenly you start talking about market share...law suites...CD ROMS? Funny isn't it? It hurts to know that Linux has better out of the box experience?

Microsoft isn't making the hardware.

So is true for Linux. Remind yourself about this fact the next time you rant about lack of drivers.

You can't play your audio & video files in Windows. U must be joking. Out of the box Windows Plays mp3, wma etc which you can extend using 3rd party codec. Out of the box Linux plays nothing which you can extend using 3rd party codec.

Yes I can't play my audio & video files in Windows. All of them are in OGG and Theora format. Can I play them in Windows out-of-the-box? If I can then I will accept your comments about codecs. Now, what should a user like me do? Download codecs? But you said it worked out of the box? It is funny that Windows users want Linux to support closed formats while Windows doesn't support completely open formats

Sorry, Microsoft cannot bundle Office 2007 with Vista.

Microsoft can not bundle this...Microsoft cannot bundle that but windows fanboys would still claim better out of the box experience and whine about codecs? Funny!

Trillian can do it after paying some fees to Yahoo. I am more then willing to pay $2 from my $100 OS if I can use all the features in Linux.

Trillian paid Yahoo! some fees? My google search brings NOTHING. Can you prove it or is it another one of your lies?
*www.google.co.in/search?q=trillian+paid+yahoo

Thats the thing. 95% of Linux applications are work in progress.

Are you the same user who was aggressively defending Graphics drivers for Windows vista being "work in progress"?

even SuperKaramba has no themes so far.

OMFG! Just stfu and stop your stupidity!!! You never get tired of being proven stupid so many times?
*www.kde-look.org/index.php?xcontentmode=38

First complete the work & then release.

Talks the guy who uses an OS that couldn't even get copy-paste working properly.

What explanation will you give for Pidgin not supporting MSN Webcam when aMSN supports it

That developers don't have time to include it in their tree. As simple as that. If you want it so badly...time for you to submit patches?

You got any Link or documentation for this?

Time for you to do some work and google searching? Anyways, here is one article from 2004...just to prove that vector graphics is being used for UI development in GNOME for that many years
*times.usefulinc.com/2004/03/03-gnomeui

2) Microsoft also works under the regulation of government bodies like RIAA & MPAA & it must comply to the rules imposed by these bodies.

Can you show us the rules where RIAA and MPAA forbid Microsoft to sell or supply Windows Vista without DRM? I am as sure as death that this point of mine will be ignored by you.

From what I have seen by Eddie & Prakash's advertising skills, it is more like saying "Get away from MS, they are devil's incarnation....noooooooooooo get out of Windows....move , shooo"

...and you must be able to post at least 5 posts of mine saying exactly that?

I have access to internet & knowledge base. Does my Mom have access? no. Why don't we see the ADs of Mandrive in Times of India or Mint Linux. Hell, why don't we see ADs of Mandrive in digit magazine.

Did you read about money part or do you choose to read only the things that you like?

Eddie just mentioned that Beryl is a work in progress. Well, when the work is done & it works properly without crashing then let me know.

Time for you to look at Vista's graphics support and copy-paste slowness may be? Also, please look at the long list of bugs being discovered by Vishal Gupta...I am sure you'll be disillusioned.

ISO files are CD Images, you tell me whether any OSS Media Player can play them without mounting or extracting somewhere first. If it can play without mounting or extracting then sure WMP can play it too with some plugins.

One word for you...VLC.