History: The Indian Dark Ages (1750-1950 AD)

[Phantom Lancer]

economic savery
all the talk about India and china becoming a superpower is just BS every country has its place and we people are still slaves

Hmm .... Both India and China were the top 2 economies of the Ancient World ...That it their place .... right there at the top

It is inevitable that both India andd China will become super powers .

And whats this "we" BS ? Anybody going through your posts can make out that you are not Indian .Your 2 spam posts in the music thread were quiet hillarious .
Did you think you could pass of gibberish as Hindi ?

 

[p_dude]

1. It is well known that the Colonial British empire persecuted Dutch Missionaries ,even though the Danes like Britons were protestant .Why ? because they were seen as potential political threat

nope

2. Among today's Indian christian communities , catholics form the majority group ,protestants are among the minority .

of course

the protestants were always hated by the jesuits (eg ignatius layola) who are more than just missionaries
the same thing is also happening in America right now
you should also consider that protestant reformation only put an end to all the massacre done by the Vatican/church(inquisitions) and still they were able to kill off many people during the ww2 which is not known by many.

 

[p_dude]

Hmm .... Both India and China were the top 2 economies of the Ancient World ...That it their place .... right there at the top

It is inevitable that both India andd China will become super powers .

And whats this "we" BS ? Anybody going through your posts can make out that you are not Indian .Your 2 spam posts in the music thread were quiet hillarious .
Did you think you could pass of gibberish as Hindi ?

what i tried to tell through that post is something else
you seem to have gotten it all wrong.

 

[Phantom Lancer]

the protestants were always hated by the jesuits (eg ignatius layola) who are more than just missionaries

They were considered Heretics ... for a good reason

the same thing is also happening in America right now

I would rather believe UFOs are real

you should also consider that protestant reformation only put an end to all the massacre done by the Vatican/church(inquisitions)

massacre ?
The holocaust which is a direct result of the protestant reformation is 10000000000000000000000000 times worse .
Now thats what people call a massacre

and still they were able to kill off many people during the ww2 which is not known by many.

Will you be kind enough to elighten us on this little known incedent(s).
Vatican was neutral during WW2

 

[p_dude]

They were considered Heretics ... for a good reason


I would rather believe UFOs are real


massacre ?
The holocaust which is a direct result of the protestant reformation is 10000000000000000000000000 times worse .
Now thats what people call a massacre


Will you be kind enough to elighten us on this little known incedent(s).
Vatican was neutral during WW2

i don't think this is going to make any sense to anyone here
so lets just move on im not wasting my time with silly arguments.

 

[Faun]

Trade cannot flourish in a place where there is no freedom . The only blackspot they had was their religious intolerance . Mughals are considered a uniquely Indian dynasty today because they did enrich India's culture and trade .

I gave you the example of China. Let me give another example that is more similar- Saudi Arabia or Iran.

You consider destroying the ancient culture and then imposing their own as an advantage ? Quite funny. That culture couldn't prevent direct action day and division of India ?

I would rather prefer a Mauryan Empire than Arab imperialism.

People having/taking on Indian values / culture .
You seem to have more narrowly defined Indians as just Hindus .

Hindu is a geographical term first used by Persians to describe people of Hindustan. So all people in India can be called as Hindus.

But what I meant by Indian is to espouse the principles of love, compassion, ahimsa, pluralism, tolerance and sacrifice. Which is not to be found in Abrahamic faiths. Remember all unbelievers will go to Hell according to Abrahamic faiths ? Isn't it offending to unbelievers ?

One more thing the rather than having religious affiliation to places outside India people should try to have an Indianised version at home itself. It's a great security risk and threat to India.

They were not driven . Religion played absolutely no part in India or any other nation being colonised .

I will not explain much here. I have provided a link before.
*www.britishempire.co.uk
Better read that. It has enough info about the inter rivalry of European nations in establishing their own version of Christianity and hence persecution of others. Even during Crusades Christians killed other Christians and Jews just because they were not pure. Civilizing natives was the Christian supremacist's burden in colonial conquests. 1857 mutiny is the cue here. Do also read about Liberation of Goa.

Remember what happened in Australia, New Zealand, America ? Natives were slaughtered and now people celebrate it as Thanksgiving Day...lolwut?

They were given chicken pox infested blanket to kill them all. Poor fellas under reservations then.

But in India there was already an ancient civilization established with great number of people. So it was not possible for them to shoo them away.

I hope you read about Max Muller and Macaulay. It will clear the doubts.

 

[dips_view]

posted by phantom lancer

Vatican was neutral during WW2

during WW2 Vatican enthusiastically supported FASCIST/NAZI powers against soviet union. and also mute spectator of holocaust/nuke attack.

 

[GigaHeartz]

Brits castrated india.. butchered brave and couragious men.. enslaved them for their their own narrow minded purposes..The same was carried forward by our congress politicians hence brave men were sidelined and insulted as if their sacrifices were worthless. Sikhs would have been integrated far better in our society, but what we got was operation blue star..

 

[SunnyChahal]

Britishers sure helped in the technological advancements. But then again its was not worth the damage they had done. Treating Indians like animals, racism, harsh laws and all sorts of inhuman stuff. They took much more than they gave to us.

 

[p_dude]

posted by phantom lancer


during WW2 Vatican enthusiastically supported FASCIST/NAZI powers against soviet union. and also mute spectator of holocaust/nuke attack.

yep that's true...

 

[Phantom Lancer]

during WW2 Vatican enthusiastically supported FASCIST/NAZI

Read up on some history for a change
It stayed neutral during ww2 ...but it had made secret pacts with the nazis and later with the allies to protect itself from bombing

powers against soviet union. and also mute spectator of holocaust/nuke attack.

Nuclear attack during ww2 ? which world do you live in ?

show me where i said they were the holiest people around ?

They were not Nazi sympathizers ...... they were just trying to protect themselves ...forgetting all duty to humanity ..did nt stop the bombing of vatican city anyways

My main point is that Protestants reformists were much worse than the vatican

 

[Phantom Lancer]

Your posts reek with religious fanaticism which is not the same as patriotism.

You consider destroying the ancient culture and then imposing their own as an advantage ? Quite funny. That culture couldn't prevent direct action day and division of India ?

Mughals settled in India and adopted Indian culture . Indian culture was never destroyed . Some elements of Muslim+Mongol (Mughal) culture infused with Indian culture . When the Brits came to India India was still very Indian

Can you state what part of Indian culture was destroyed by the Mughals ?

I would rather prefer a Mauryan Empire than Arab imperialism.

what else would a Hindu fanatic want .
Mughals were Mongoloids not Arabs . Babur was the descendant of Genghis khan and Timurid . Genghis khan was nt even Muslim .
I would also prefer a native [regardless of religion] to rule India . and Mughal kings like Akbar were very much Indian . saying otherwise would be racism .

Hindu is a geographical term first used by Persians to describe people of Hindustan. So all people in India can be called as Hindus.

Hindu is an adherent of the partcicular religion
Hindustan= Land where Hindus live .... Not Land where only Hindus live

But what I meant by Indian is to espouse the principles of love, compassion, ahimsa, pluralism, tolerance and sacrifice.

So the Koran,Talmud and Bible espouse the principle of Hate , Violence ,Intolerance and Murder

Which is not to be found in Abrahamic faiths. Remember all unbelievers will go to Hell according to Abrahamic faiths ? Isn't it offending to unbelievers ?

Unbelievers = Atheists [Unbelievers in god]... U can give it any interpretation you like ...For propaganda purpose u can pick any one of your choice

That makes the Abhrahamic religions violent,Hateful etc etc etc

Logic

One more thing the rather than having religious affiliation to places outside India people should try to have an Indianised version at home itself. It's a great security risk and threat to India.

??
Every Muslim,Christian and Jew has affiliation outside India ? Did you take a survey

Its like the US Govt saying that every Iraqi is a Terrorist ...Bad stereotyping

Better read that. It has enough info about the inter rivalry of European nations in establishing their own version of Christianity and hence persecution of others. Even during Crusades Christians killed other Christians and Jews just because they were not pure. Civilizing natives was the Christian supremacist's burden in colonial conquests. 1857 mutiny is the cue here. Do also read about Liberation of Goa.

I am already familiar with all this history .... Christian killing other Christians is not news to me ... Thats what i have been saying and u denying .........its purely politics .Briton was fighting for itself ...not for any religion

Remember what happened in Australia, New Zealand, America ? Natives were slaughtered and now people celebrate it as Thanksgiving Day...lolwut?
They were given chicken pox infested blanket to kill them all. Poor fellas under reservations then.

But in India there was already an ancient civilization established with great number of people. So it was not possible for them to shoo them away.
Christian supremacist's

The keyword is "White supremacism/Euro-centrism" not Christian

Not familiar with Colonial British race laws are u ?

*en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_supremacy

Your religious bias has shown you a skewered view of history

Race laws were the reason for the slave trade and the attempt to 'civilize' native population .According to which White Europeans are Superior to all other 'races' . and you cant be white unless you are European [not christian].

 

[Faun]

^^lol...religious fanaticism ? Isn't it the same yard stick used by Aurondhoty Roy and her ilks.

Can you deny Sikh gurus beheading ? Why do you think that Sikhism arose during Islamic rule and not Buddhism like religion ? There must be something that Hindus chose to take up kripans rather than peaceful enlightenment under banyan tree. Hindus willfully donated their sons to Sikhism at that time. ? Sikhism was a reaction to Islamic tyranny and deterioration of Hindu culture.
Can you deny the destruction of popular educational centers like Nalanda ? Educations plays an important part in preserving culture and modeling the mindset of generations. I wonder where all the Buddhists have gone
Can you deny the thousands of Dharmic places destroyed and then Mosques were built over them? Was it not destroying Indian culture. I am pretty sure that Indian would have allowed to build Mosques beside Temples had Islamists asked for it with sincere love without taking a sword.
Can you deny Jiziya (though Akbar relaxed it) ? The second class treatment of people under that.
Why do you think that India moved into a Purdah society from the era when Kamasutra was treated as not a taboo. Where did this taboo/shame subject came from ?
... Accounts of Amir Khushro, Ibn Batuta and Babur nama etc. will set the pace for a welfare work for India.

I am not talking about Mughal lineage when I speak of Arab Imperialism. It has to do with allegiance with Arab land and ummah. Which, unfortunately, has been and can be used for geopolitical self goals. Further Sayyeds etc. in India are the ones who can trace their origin to best of best - the Arabs. Nice that you labeled me as racist

Believe it or not but Hindu is a geographical term. There was nothing called Hindu in ancient India. Its other people who clubbed people living in India with diversity as Hindu. So essentially any person (irrespective of his religion,race,creed etc.) living in India (Hindustan) can be called as a Hindu. Why take offense in it then ?

I can quote Quran and Bible about the free hell ride given to unbelievers.

Unbelievers mean those who does not believe in Abrahamic God. I can give proof of it. Further different sects in Abrahamic religions consider each other as unbelievers.

But lets assume that unbelievers mean Atheists only. May be agnostic count too but lets leave it. And we have around ~6.7 billion population here in Earth. There are approximately ~1.1 billion atheists.
So in your opinion they will be given free ride ticket to Hell which is ETERNAL TORTURE. They will be tortured with molten metal poured in their mouths. Their skins will be roasted and further new skins will be given and again roasted till the ETERNITY. lolwut?

Ironically, Abrahmic God can and has led people astray purposefully and then torture them for ETERNITY just for the lulz. Why?

Slaves culture is DIVINELY sanctioned according to Holy books of Abrahamics. Need proof ? Read holy books.

But at the end people will call me religious fanatic. Though I will be condemned to ETERNAL Hell because of my atheist/agnostic/blasphemous beliefs. But I need to peacefully shove it down my throat for the greater good of mankind. :/

 

[m-jeri]

^^

You are some kinda feather head are ya?.

People from Hindusthan are called Hindusthani not hindus. "Hindus" are the term coined for people following hinduism. So your grammar is also skewed like your history.

Well you are not a religious fanatic..you are just disturbed in mind.

And please do say where Christianity did these with example.

1. Christians kill other christians during crusades
2. Non believers are tortured for eternity and eternal hel and what not.


*The kinda noobies that join now...*

 

[Phantom Lancer]

^^
.you are just disturbed in mind.

Either way same problem

1. Christians kill other christians during crusades

Constantinople [Then the capital of Byzantium empire] was sacked by Europeans during the 4th crusade by a crusading army heading for Jerusalem .
There was a problem between greek speaking and Latin speaking Europeans
Completely political

*The kinda noobies that join now...*

He is an old member with a new id (ichi)

 

[Phantom Lancer]

Slaves culture is DIVINELY sanctioned according to Holy books of Abrahamics. Need proof ? Read holy books.

This line by itself is the greatest showcase of your complete ignorance of other religions and your blind hate .
Please do quote the verses from Bible , Talmud and Koran where it sanctions slave labor

Do you know what a Talmud is ? Ever seen a Koran,Bible ?

Although Hindu, Gandhi had a very close connection with Christianity and admired Jesus very much, often quoting from his favorite 'Sermon on the Mount' chapter in Mathew 5–7.

When the missionary E. Stanley Jones met with Gandhi he asked him, "Mr. Gandhi, though you quote the words of Christ often, why is that you appear to so adamantly reject becoming his follower?"

Gandhi replied, "Oh, I don't reject Christ. I love Christ. It's just that so many of you Christians are so unlike Christ."

"If Jesus came to earth again. He would disown many things that are being done in the name of Christianity," Gandhi said during his meeting with an English missioner.

Here I am remembered of Sadhu Sundar Singh who is said to have done more to "indeginize" the churches of India than any figures in the twentieth century.

"You have offered us Christianity in a Western cup... Give it to us in an Eastern bowl and we will drink of it," is a famous statement by Singh, who converted from Sikh to Christianity after his personal experience with Jesus, who appeared in his room on one morning in the year 1905, when he was just fifteen years old.

Heres a bit more

Gandhi was born in western India in 1869. Just 11 years earlier (in 1858), Britain had declared India a loyal colony. The young Gandhi completed a British-style high school education and was greatly impressed with British manners, genteel culture, and Christian beliefs. He aspired to become a barrister at law, but was prohibited from doing so by the local head of his Hindu caste in Bombay. His first act of public defiance was his decision to assume the role of an "out-caste" and leave for London to study law.
While studying in England, Gandhi first read (and was inspired by) the Bible and the Bhagavad Gita, a Hindu religious poem. The story of the Sermon on the Mount in the Christian New Testament stirred in him an interest in passive resistance, and he also became intrigued with the ethical basis of vegetarianism after befriending a few enthusiasts at a local restaurant. He would later use dietary fasting as a means to draw attention to social causes.

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…if God had not driven some people back by means of others, monasteries, churches, synagogues and mosques, where God's name is mentioned much, would have been pulled down and destroyed. God will certainly help those who help Him-God is All-Strong, Almighty. (Qur'an, 22:40)

"He who believes in God and the Last Day should honour his guest, should not harm his neighbour, should speak good or keep quiet." (Bukhari, Muslim)

"Whoever hurts a Non-Muslim citizen of a Muslim state hurts me, and he who hurts me annoys God." (Bukhari)

"He who hurts a Non-Muslim citizen of a Muslim state, I am his adversary, and I shall be his adversary on the Day of a Judgement." (Bukhari)

"Beware on the Day of Judgement; I shall mysefl be complainant against him who wrongs a Non-Muslim citizen of a Muslim state or lays on him a responsibility greater than he can bear or deprives him of anything that belongs to him." (Al-Mawardi)

 

[dips_view]

originally posted by phantom lancer...
"Read up on some history for a change
It stayed neutral during ww2 ...but it had made secret pacts with the nazis and later with the allies to protect itself from bombing"

OK I will follow ur advice..but u need to know something more.during WW2
Pope Pius XII supported NAZI invasion of soviet union.At present it's hard to find but u will find it many WW2 documentaries.

yes church had secret pact with Nazi/fascists.with the help church Mussolini came to power in Italy

After WW2 Vatican starts propaganda campaign against communist/socialist parties

anyone can finds the role of church in historic docs like WORLD AT WAR.

link:*thepiratebay.org/torrent/4084602/The_World_At_War__Episodes_1-26

originally posted by phantom lancer.....
"Nuclear attack during ww2 ? which world do you live in ? "

THIS TIME I CANT BELIEVE MY EYES!!!! HOW CAN ANYONE ASKS THIS????????????????????????
and even no one ever noticed it?
U just forgot Hiroshima/Nagasaki......which world do you live in ?

and last i dont think he (kanzar)is ichi may be he is mehera rakesh
or George bush!!!
@kanzar please dont mind I am just like u an ordinary indian not LADEN/BUSH/STALIN/HITLER/......./JEHADI/CHINESE SPY/P.KARAT/CHURCHILL...../Mr India/PAki/...../etc

and i think i am using a Chinese keyboard

 

[Phantom Lancer]

^^lol...religious fanaticism ? Isn't it the same yard stick used by Aurondhoty Roy and her ilks.

Yes, People of tolerance and wisdom .She is considered a great writer in India are you trying to discredit her .
Even though i am not a Muslim i respect it very much [as i do all religions] . Thats what i call tolerance . I am ofcourse not talking about the radical version of Islam which some ppl tend to follow

Can you deny Sikh gurus beheading ? Why do you think that Sikhism arose during Islamic rule and not Buddhism like religion ? There must be something that Hindus chose to take up kripans rather than peaceful enlightenment under banyan tree. Hindus willfully donated their sons to Sikhism at that time. ? Sikhism was a reaction to Islamic tyranny and deterioration of Hindu culture.

Everything you said happened . But was it because of Islam the religion ?

The most voilent Muslim to ever enter India was Timur the Lame

Timur began a trek starting in 1398 to invade the reigning Sultan Nasir-u Din Mehmud of the Tughlaq Dynasty in the north Indian city of Delhi.[17] His campaign was politically pretexted that the Muslim Delhi Sultanate was too tolerant toward its Hindu subjects, but that could not mask the real reason being to amass the wealth of the Delhi Sultanate.

He invaded and sacked Delhi killing of all its inhabitants

What did he do next ?

He invaded Baghdad in June 1401. After the capture of the city, 20,000 of its citizens including Muslims were massacred. Timur ordered that every soldier should return with at least two severed human heads to show him (many warriors were so scared they killed prisoners captured earlier in the campaign just to ensure they had heads to present to Timur).

So much for his love for Arabs and Muslims eh ? He did not stop there he also went on to sack the Islamic caliphate the heart of Muslim world
And he was supposed to be Muslim !

Islam like Christianity has a large no of followers some good,some bad some just plain Murderers . Was it Islam's fault that the Mongols [who by nature were violent] adopted Islam ?

Why do you think that India moved into a Purdah society from the era when Kamasutra was treated as not a taboo. Where did this taboo/shame subject came from ?

thats difficult to say
Sati , caste system etc were not Islam's product
Hindu ism at that point was going through a general decline [like present day islam]..which means ppl were using Hindu-ism to achieve their objective

power cut !

 

[m-jeri]

Constantinople [Then the capital of Byzantium empire] was sacked by Europeans during the 4th crusade by a crusading army heading for Jerusalem .
There was a problem between greek speaking and Latin speaking Europeans
Completely political

That was a diversion if you knew history very well. The church has accepted that fact.
That one incident which happened hundreds of years ago cannot be hold against the church.
but alas narrow minded people will never accept that.

Those were dark times. nothing was certain. When we sit comfy in a chair and type things we may not understand everything that happened. It was a huge mistake from the church's part, no arguments their though. but making it sound like it happens now..is just...

I always loved when people with bits of information make statements that is not entirely true. just mis informed i think.

 

[Phantom Lancer]

Pope Pius XII supported NAZI invasion of soviet union.At present it's hard to find but u will find it many WW2 documentaries.

In the 1937 encyclical Mit brennender Sorge, drafted by Pope Pius XII when he was still a cardinal,[49] Pope Pius XI denounced Nazism and breaches of the Reichskonkordat. Read from the pulpits of all German Catholic churches, it has been described as the first official denunciation of Nazism made by any major organization.[50] Nazi persecution of the Church in Germany then began by "outright repression" and "staged prosecutions of monks for homosexuality, with the maximum of publicity."[111] When Dutch bishops protested against the deportation of Jews, the Nazis responded with even more severe measures.[50] In Poland, the Nazis murdered over 2500 monks and priests while even more were sent to concentration camps.[111] The Priester-Block (priests barracks) in the Dachau concentration camp lists 2600 Roman Catholic priests.[48] Pius XII's refusal to censure the German invasion and annexation of Poland was regarded as a "betrayal" by many Polish Catholics and clergy, who saw his appointment of Hilarius Breitinger as apostolic administrator for the Wartheland in May 1942 as "implicit recognition" of the breakup of Poland; the opinions of the Volksdeutsche, mostly-Catholic German minorities living in Poland, were more mixed.[112] Although Pius XII received frequent reports about atrocities committed by and/or against Catholics, his knowledge was not complete; for example, he wept after the war upon learning that Cardinal Hlond had banned German liturgical services in Poland.[113] Phayer argues that Pius XII—both before and during his papacy—consistently "deferred to Germany at the expense of Poland", and saw Germany—not Poland—as critical to "rebuilding a large Catholic presence in Central Europe".

*en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Pius_XII#World_War_II

.with the help church Mussolini came to power in Italy

More BS
Read here
*en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benito_Mussolini

THIS TIME I CANT BELIEVE MY EYES!!!! HOW CAN ANYONE ASKS THIS????????????????????????
and even no one ever noticed it?
U just forgot Hiroshima/Nagasaki......which world do you live in ?

2 Atomic bombs dont make a nuclear war . Is ww2 a nuclear war ?
Are u kidding me ?
If japan had retaliated it would have become a war
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That was a diversion if you knew history very well. The church has accepted that fact.

It was not sponsored by the Church , everybody knows that .

That one incident which happened hundreds of years ago cannot be hold against the church.

Nobody is holding it against the church . It is an excellent example to illustrate that the crusade was a political not religious war

Those were dark times. nothing was certain. When we sit comfy in a chair and type things we may not understand everything that happened. It was a huge mistake from the church's part, no arguments their though. but making it sound like it happens now..is just...

Where did anybody say it happens now ? [in this thread]

I always loved when people with bits of information make statements that is not entirely true. just mis informed i think.

it could be you

by no means was it a one off incident

On a popular level, the first crusades unleashed a wave of impassioned, personally felt pious Christian fury that was expressed in the massacres of Jews that accompanied the movement of the Crusader mobs through Europe, as well as the violent treatment of "schismatic" Orthodox Christians of the east. During many of the attacks on Jews, local Bishops and Christians made attempts to protect Jews from the mobs that were passing through. Jews were often offered sanctuary in churches and other Christian buildings.