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History: The Indian Dark Ages (1750-1950 AD)

Discussion in 'Fight Club' started by Phantom Lancer, Oct 11, 2009.

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Do you think that India gained anything from Being a colony of Britain ?

  1. Yes , India was modernized !

    59.1%
  2. No, India become the hell hole it is under them

    31.8%
  3. I am not sure ><

    9.1%
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  1. Phantom Lancer

    Phantom Lancer meh

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    The Rise of India as a economic and military heavy weight has challenged the Western notion of "Everything good comes from the west" ,but many people seem to have trouble accepting it .
    In many internet discussion forums i have noticed that people generally tend to credit Colonial Britain with 'civilizing' the primitive Indians .After all Did nt they introduce railway systems in India ? build schools and universities and abolish primitive 'Indian' customs such as caste system in India ?
    Surely British Colonial rule is far superior to the current rule of corrupt governments in India ?

    As the title of this thread suggests ,i find this reasoning very unacceptable .... British Colonialism in India remains IMO one of the worst disaster to have ever struck India .

    Here are some facts

    In 1854, Sir Arthur Cotton writing in "Public Works in India" noted: "Public works have been almost entirely neglected throughout India... The motto hitherto has been: 'Do nothing, have nothing done, let nobody do anything.

    W. Digby, noted in "Prosperous British India" in 1901 that "stated roughly, famines and scarcities have been four times as numerous, during the last thirty years of the 19th century as they were one hundred years ago, and four times as widespread." In Late Victorian Holocausts, Mike Davis points out that here were 31(thirty one) serious famines in 120 years of British rule compared to 17(seventeen) in the 2000 years before British rule.

    The poverty of British India stood in stark contrast to these eye witness reports and has to be ascribed to the pitiful wages that working people in India received in that period. A 1927-28 report noted that "all but the most highly skilled workmen in India receive wages which are barely sufficient to feed and clothe them. Everywhere will be seen overcrowding, dirt and squalid misery..."


    Contrast this data with the following accounts of Indian life prior to colonization:-
    " ....even in the smallest villages rice, flour, butter, milk, beans and other vegetables, sugar and sweetmeats can be procured in abundance .... Tavernier writing in the 17th century in his "Travels in India".



    Manouchi - the Venetian who became chief physician to Aurangzeb (also in the 17th century) wrote: "Bengal is of all the kingdoms of the Moghul, best known in France..... We may venture to say it is not inferior in anything to Egypt - and that it even exceeds that kingdom in its products of silks, cottons, sugar, and indigo. All things are in great plenty here, fruits, pulse, grain, muslins, cloths of gold and silk..."



    The French traveller, Bernier also described 17th century Bengal in a similiar vein: "The knowledge I have acquired of Bengal in two visits inclines me to believe that it is richer than Egypt. It exports in abundance cottons and silks, rice, sugar and butter. It produces amply for it's own consumption of wheat, vegetables, grains, fowls, ducks and geese. It has immense herds of pigs and flocks of sheep and goats. Fish of every kind it has in profusion. From Rajmahal to the sea is an endless number of canals, cut in bygone ages from the Ganges by immense labour for navigation and irrigation."



    - quotes courtesy
    http://india_resource.tripod.com/colonial.html
     
  2. pravinbv

    pravinbv How are you?

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    its obvious thats britishers were better than todays corrupt politicians. and i think india would have progressed more if they still remained here.
     
  3. Plasma_Snake

    Plasma_Snake Indidiot

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    Brits developed Infrastructure but destroyed our economy and home industry in order to promote their own so in a way colonial rule was both good and bad.
     
  4. Rahim

    Rahim Married!

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    Most of the office(sarkari) buildings in Calcutta are made in British Raj :
     
  5. OP
    OP
    Phantom Lancer

    Phantom Lancer meh

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    That is what most Indians think .... But some research will unearth quiet some startling facts

    The literacy rate in India during 1911 was 6% in 1931 it was 8%, and by 1947 it had crawled to 11% .

    so literacy rate under the British raj grew from 6% to 11% over a period of 36 years (1911-1947)

    Literacy rate under the license raj (pre-liberalization Indian govt ) rose to a cool 42% (1950-1981) over a period of 31+ years . Thats 10 times larger.

    from 1981-2001 it rose to 66% a rise of 25% in a matter of 20 years .

    And during the colonial period only 4 in 10,000 Indians went to a university

    I would say todays corrupt politicians are a welcome relief ! better than the Colonists
     
  6. OP
    OP
    Phantom Lancer

    Phantom Lancer meh

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    They did build some good buildings ....... but only for themselves ... Who do you think resided in the Sarkari offices ? Indians ?
    But more than that i think the damage they did to already existing monuments is immeasurable .

    Prior to 1750 India was crisscrossed by a number of canals and irrigation system .... built over a 2000 year period . All torn down ,because their maintenance costs were too high for the English East India company .
    The many beautiful Mughul and other Indian buildings torn down and drab military barracks built in its place .

    Perhaps the least known aspect of the colonial legacy is the early British attitude towards India's historic monuments and the extend of vandalism that took place. Instead, there is this pervasive myth of the Britisher as an unbiased "protector of the nation's historic legacy".

     
  7. Faun

    Faun Wahahaha~!

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    Good question ! But why restrict to British invasion only ? Islamic invasion too destroyed Indian social fabric completely. Britishers just replaced that fabric with their own. Though I agree that capital was well within India during Moughal rule. But capital can be recreated but lost souls and values can never be.

    Islamic invasions and Christian British invasions were a virtual rape of our motherland. Thanks to Marxist historians that we are spoon fed with conditioned history. And we have people today glorifying these invasions. While Jew holocaust has important place in history but there is no mention of Hindu holocaust. Not even of Bangladesh genocide of 3 million in 260 days during 1971. History is a propaganda of victors.

    Sikh Gurus were beheaded. Our ancestors were converted at the hilt of sword. Slave trade was introduced to India.

    Here is one quote about the generosity of Christian British invasion:
    People should read about Saint Xavier and his wonderful sayings. We have educational institutions named after him...lol.

    Here is the Missionary tactic of Baron Macaulay which unfortunately succeeded as seen in today's Indian:
    [​IMG]
    -----------------------------------------
    Posted again:
    -----------------------------------------
    That infrastructure too was for their own gain. To speed up the looting process, exporting materials to world market in short time.

    Ever wonder why Gandhi was thrown out of the Train ? Common Indians were treated like herds of cattle. "Dogs and Indians not allowed" sign were a common sight. Those infrastructures was not for common Indian.
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2009
  8. nix

    nix Senior Member

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    the rich but unwise person is bound to be cheated.
     
  9. Krow

    Krow Crowman

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    There were some gains like we had only a few countries made of the subcontinent instead of a myriad of Europe like small countries. Lets not start about the loss. The list is endless.
     
  10. tarey_g

    tarey_g Hanging, since 2004..

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    And yeah if that had happened, most of the digit forum members wud be polishing firangi shoes now, instead of sitting b4 a computer.
     
  11. Krow

    Krow Crowman

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    ^+1 to tarey_g!
     
  12. Faun

    Faun Wahahaha~!

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    Lol...Britishers left India divided in two pieces and 512+ independent provinces. Very much united indeed :D
     
  13. Faun

    Faun Wahahaha~!

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    Not to forget having our own version of Thanksgiving Day :cool:
     
  14. nix

    nix Senior Member

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    impulsive comment. saying that we would be "polishing firangi shoes" now is far-fetched. get real.

    sooner or later, they would have gone. the european people were starting to oppose colonial policies after WWII. do remember that if not for english language, we would not have the edge that we have now.

    They also unified india, w/o which there would be many small, independant countries divided on lingual lines, somewhat like europe.

    I agree that british rule was not right. But the british people of today are not bad as the above posts infer. The success of indians in britian proves it. Present day britain is a whole lot more accomadative to people of other races than india can ever be. heck, we fight among ourself for water.(karnataka v/s TN) etc...
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2009
  15. OP
    OP
    Phantom Lancer

    Phantom Lancer meh

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    While religion did fuel the coming of Islamic dynasties into India ,i would disagree on the point that they destroyed India .
    And that was after the Industrial revolution in Europe.
    With every passing generation they became more and more Indian . In contrast to Britons who refused to integrate into India's "inferior" culture .

    And The colonial Britishers were more Racists than Religious
     
  16. OP
    OP
    Phantom Lancer

    Phantom Lancer meh

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    We are talking specifically about the damage they did during their short stay .

    1. If it was not for india . Colonial Britain would not have been able to build its massive empire . The biggest ever in all of History . And if that had not been possible English would never have become the Lingua Franca of the world .
    2. if they had not come into India ,India would have remained in the list of the top 3 economies of the world.

    India was roughly divided into 4-5 massive empires ...The Marathas ,Mughals,Tamil kingdoms and Punjab
    Each of them had their own unique rich culture and were economical power houses .

    compare that to our united India with more than 50% [500 million+] beggars and nothing needs to be said about effects of Partition of India terrorism being the least of out headaches

    The thread is clearly marked "History" :neutral:
    and have you ever heard of the slogan "British jobs for British People" ?
    They blame the lose of British jobs on Asians ! when the truth is that the guilty party is in fact their own bankers who caused the recession which in turn caused the job loses .

    Every Asian migrant is a terrorist suspect ,regardless of religion/country .You ll be harassed by Airport Authorities and police atleast a few times if you travel to UK .Many IT executives have had to suffer silently .
    And dont be shocked if some people hurl racial slurs at you once in a while .
    UK and US has had serious Racial integration problems with the diverse communities that live there spawned by slave trade(black Africans),vietnam wars(Indo-Chinese community) etc etc.
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2009
  17. Faun

    Faun Wahahaha~!

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    Sorry dude but I won't consider money superior to freedom. Both treated Indians as slaves. Give this golden bait to a caged bird but not me.

    Even China is progressing better than India but still India is better in terms of individual freedom.

    What do you mean by Indian ?

    Colonial Britishers were equally driven by the religious fervor. It will be stupid to consider British colonialism as simply a looting of resources.

    I hope you read about missionary nature of the invasion and establishing hegemony of Britishers among other European Christian nations. A good point is to start by reading this link, a more neutral view of British invasions:

    http://www.britishempire.co.uk/index.htm
     
  18. Faun

    Faun Wahahaha~!

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    At the end of the British Raj, life expectancy of Indians was just 27 years.
    http://www.nimr.mrc.ac.uk/MillHillEssays/2008/familyhealth/

    Add to that if France would have captured India unlike Britishers then today whole world will be using French primarily :D

    Not to forget that Britishers left India with 512+ independent provinces :lol:

    Sardar Patel provided the first step to free united India after Islamic and British slavery.

    The truth is that no one in developed country would like to do menial jobs people from developing countries only. And then too for good specialist jobs the high school dropout rate is far more for Firangi compared to immigrants from India or China or Thailand or Singapore etc.

    Infact there is a shortage of nurses in UK itself.
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2009
  19. Faun

    Faun Wahahaha~!

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    Oh lord ! So those Jews, Parsis, Syrian Christians, Ahamediyya and Bahai are not the example of accommodation by India ? This happened at the time when whole World was hunting these people to death and in India only they found safe haven.

    But still India can never ever be accommodative like others :p

    Please nix brush up your history knowledge...no...not the Marxist history but Indian history.
     
  20. p_dude

    p_dude New Member

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    economic savery

    this is the condition that all third world countries are in right now
    and this wasn't the only country that was robbed and econimically raped in the past under the name of civilizing the people
    and the christian missonaries you were takling about thats another story

    all the talk about India and china becoming a superpower is just BS every country has its place and we people are still slaves

    it is all done through economy and trade unions, common people like us just don't get to know about these things from what we learn from schools and colleges which is also nothing but BS.
     
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