GAM1NG PC @70k

[Extreme Gamer]

SSD caching FYI can put serious stress on SSDs.

Using MLCs with SSD caching is a no-no because they can get worn out quicker than in normal use.Intel's larson Creek SLC 20GB is built for this purpose and will be coming out soon.

And what is better?SSD running your OS or it caching bits of your Data?

It will give upto 40% boost in load times and running it directly off your SSD will be a lot faster than that.
Tell me,will you even use an SSD?

As for quicksync,you need supported software to make use of it.Only Cyberlink Media Espresso 6 and Arcsoft's media Converter 9 currently support it.
These are both paid software btw,and will you be using either?
Dont say things like P67 is useless now.Sure Z68 is better if you can utilize what it has.FYI AMD cards,although slower, do better quality transcode than Quicksync.

And change your PSU to corsair TX-650,and case to HAF 922.

 

[vickybat]

SSD caching FYI can put serious stress on SSDs.

Using MLCs with SSD caching is a no-no because they can get worn out quicker than in normal use.Intel's larson Creek SLC 20GB is built for this purpose and will be coming out soon.

And what is better?SSD running your OS or it caching bits of your Data?

It will give upto 40% boost in load times and running it directly off your SSD will be a lot faster than that.
Tell me,will you even use an SSD?

As for quicksync,you need supported software to make use of it.Only Cyberlink Media Espresso 6 and Arcsoft's media Converter 9 currently support it.
These are both paid software btw,and will you be using either?
Dont say things like P67 is useless now.Sure Z68 is better if you can utilize what it has.FYI AMD cards,although slower, do better quality transcode than Quicksync.

And change your PSU to corsair TX-650,and case to HAF 922.

Please justify the statement in bold?

P67 is indeed useless with the advent of z68. You can even overclock partially unlocked cpu's like the non k sandybridge processors marginally with the z68.

Using mlc ssd's won't result in wear and tear dear but lesser write performance as the cpu writes on both ssd and hdd simultaneously. Slc based ssd's have significantly higher write performance of around 105 mb/s as opposed to 45mb/s of the mlc's. A higher capacity slc based ssd can have the primary os as well as perform caching in the remainder space by intel's software. But slc based ssd's are expensive and have more price/gb.

 

[Joker]

it is more like this.

quicksync (very fast and very good quality) > ati/amd stream (slow but good quality) >> nvidia cuda (slow and bad quality)

source: anandtech sandy bridge review.

Spoiler

quicksync: *images.anandtech.com/reviews/cpu/intel/sandybridge/review/quicksync/quantumofsolace/quicksync.png
ati: *images.anandtech.com/reviews/cpu/intel/sandybridge/review/quicksync/quantumofsolace/6870.png
cuda: *images.anandtech.com/reviews/cpu/intel/sandybridge/review/quicksync/quantumofsolace/gtx460.png

Spoiler

quicksync: *images.anandtech.com/reviews/cpu/intel/sandybridge/review/quicksync/darkknight/quicksync.png
ati: *images.anandtech.com/reviews/cpu/intel/sandybridge/review/quicksync/darkknight/6870.png
cuda: *images.anandtech.com/reviews/cpu/intel/sandybridge/review/quicksync/darkknight/gtx460.png

 

[Cilus]

As for quicksync,you need supported software to make use of it.Only Cyberlink Media Espresso 6 and Arcsoft's media Converter 9 currently support it.

How many times I have to tell you that quicksync is supported by tons of applications which support GPU acceleration. All the below mentioned software support Intel Quicksync:
Arcsoft MediaConverter*
Arcsoft MediaImpression*
Badaboom Media Converter*
Corel Digital Studio*
CyberLink MediaEspresso*
CyberLink PowerDirector*
MainConcept*
Movavi Video Converter*
Roxio Creator*

But the thing is Lucid Logic Virtue right now supports only the two mentioned software and with the others the switching between IGP and dedicated GPU will not work. If no dedicated GPU is plugged then all the software I've mentioned will take advantage of Quicksync.

Now the Lucid Logic virtue is only couple of months old and within next couple of months the number of supported software will be increased in large extent.

 

[vickybat]

it is more like this.

quicksync (very fast and very good quality) > ati/amd stream (slow but good quality) >> nvidia cuda (slow and bad quality)

source: anandtech sandy bridge review.

Spoiler

quicksync: *images.anandtech.com/reviews/cpu/intel/sandybridge/review/quicksync/quantumofsolace/quicksync.png
ati: *images.anandtech.com/reviews/cpu/intel/sandybridge/review/quicksync/quantumofsolace/6870.png
cuda: *images.anandtech.com/reviews/cpu/intel/sandybridge/review/quicksync/quantumofsolace/gtx460.png

Spoiler

quicksync: *images.anandtech.com/reviews/cpu/intel/sandybridge/review/quicksync/darkknight/quicksync.png
ati: *images.anandtech.com/reviews/cpu/intel/sandybridge/review/quicksync/darkknight/6870.png
cuda: *images.anandtech.com/reviews/cpu/intel/sandybridge/review/quicksync/darkknight/gtx460.png

Thanks joker. This will make sure that the statement in bold is not justified.

@ cilus

Thanks for the info buddy. This will make z68 look even sweeter than p67. The latter truly does not make any sense now.

 

[Cilus]

With Z68 boards are on the horizon and available in less than 11K with multi GPU support and all the other features, there is simply no point in going for a P67 mobo.

Tell me,will you even use an SSD?

What the hell is this? Obviously anyone can add a 32 GB/ 40 GB SSD to their system in near future and get almost four time more performance than a standard HDD.

 

[Extreme Gamer]

The justification is that when you cache data,you do read and write operations.the data will be stored on the SSD (a bit similar to how prefetch works), and after some time it will be erased and new data will be stored.i say it will put stress on your SSD because i mean that it will do more read/write operations than your regular usage as an OS/app drive and thus cause it to reach its limit faster.

I do not mean to say to not use SSD caching.Rather Im saying that do it with SLC SSDs and not MLCs which have a far lower MTBF and read/write capacity than SLCs.Which is why I pointed out that Intel's larson Creek 34nm 20GB SLCs are coming out in a couple of months,and they have been especially designed for caching,and will possibly be cheaper too.

quicksync (very fast and very good quality) > ati/amd stream (slow but good quality) >> nvidia cuda (slow and bad quality)

as far as this is concerned it is more like this(with signs in ranking of speed):

Quicksync (very fast but good quality)>CUDA (fast but poor quality)>ATI stream[or was it firestream?](slow but very good quality)

FYI joker I had gone through that review before posting my statements about quicksync.

*images.anandtech.com/reviews/cpu/intel/sandybridge/review/quicksync/quantumofsolace/quicksync.jpg

The image quality story is about the same for AMD’s GPUs and the x86 path, however Quick Sync delivers a noticeably worse quality image. It’s no where near as bad as the GTX 460, but it’s just not as sharp as what you get from the software or ATI Stream codepaths.

The problem here seems to be that when transcoding from a lower quality source, the tradeoffs NVIDIA makes are amplified. Even Quick Sync isn’t perfect here. I’d say Quick Sync is closer to the pure x86 path than CUDA. Given the tremendous performance advantage I’d say the tradeoff is probably worth it in this case.

Also,Image quality is quite subjective.To be honest I like my pictures to have smoother appearance and colour fidelity can go down I bit,I dont mind.
As far as the software is concerned,I was not aware that other software would support quicksync within the 1.5 months time gap there has been between the article and my statement.So i admit that statement to be void now.

 

[Sarath]

I thought i clicked on a wrong thread seeing all the discussion about quick sync and SSD caching.

However i read about both in tomshardware.com
SSD caching doesnt seem to show many benifits. Even if it does it doesnt justify the cost.
Plus i wont be getting an SSD for a really long time.

And for someone who does a little bit of editing of home videos i think quick sync might help. I may or may not buy a software for the same. I would buy a good 2k video editing software however since we have a huge collection of videos yet to be burned and edited. I think i might have use for it.

For now i think both Z68 and P67 seem to be similar if you dont care about quick sync and SSD caching.

Any other benifit of a Z68 over P67? Apart from the Z68=H67+P67 one.

i am inclined towards getting the Z68 though.

 

[Extreme Gamer]

Thats what I said.While the Z68 is definitely better, P67 is not bad.

Also on what basis are you vickybat saying that Z68 allows for more overclocking?

The basic architecture of the chipset has not changed.It is still connected to single BCLK for the whole platform.
Maybe we will see a sturdier chip,but thats about it.More than the chip itself,its the board that gets damaged on BCLK OCing.So i dont see how you can say that better OC will be allowed.You could OC non-k processors in P67 in the same way as in Z68,if thats what you mean by "partially unlocked".It was the H67 where you could not OC at all.

 

[vickybat]

^^ Yup p67 does allow limited overclocking through 4 bins and an increment of 400mhz. We are not saying p67 is bad but doesn't make any sense now. z68 is the board to go for and this is what p67 should have been right from the start. Quicksync is simply too good to resist and ssd caching is simply an icing in the cake. Performance users will forget p67 in the coming time.

About ssd caching, using the mlc path, there will be slower write performance because the write operation will be done simultaneously on the ssd and hdd. Slc based ssd's aren't cheap (higher price/gb) but has almost twice the write performance. Its still faster overall.

About wear and tear during write operations, ssd's have no mechanical moving parts inside (just nand flash chips). So it can sustain many write operations. This has never been a drawback in ssd's. Therefore its the perfect candidate for caching purposes and staying close to the cpu.

@ Sarath

Get the z68 eyes closed in the same pricepoint as p67. Apart from ssd caching & quicksync, there are no differences. But those two are really the difference maker.

 

[Extreme Gamer]

In MLCs it has been a draw back.By wear and tear,as I specified before, I meant that it will reach its read/write limit quicker vs standard use.SLCs are more robust.

Did you not see my mention of Larson Creek?these will be more affordable 20GB SLCs in the 34nm node designed especially for SSD caching.

And remember,the P series never had display capabilities in any generation.

The Z68 probably came to put that GPU to use in the performance lineup.

 

[vickybat]

In MLCs it has been a draw back.By wear and tear,as I specified before, I meant that it will reach its read/write limit quicker vs standard use.SLCs are more robust.

Did you not see my mention of Larson Creek?these will be more affordable 20GB SLCs in the 34nm node designed especially for SSD caching.

We need some justification again on the bold lines. Could you provide some links to back your words?

I have read about larson creek and it has higher price/gb as compared to standard mlc ssd's. A 20gb larson creek was $100 whereas a 80gb mlc was $100. So i guess you understood what i meant by price/gb?

 

[Extreme Gamer]

yes.but at least you can afford it vs higher capacity SLCs which have higher price/gb?

i said more affordable than other SLCs not MLCs per gb.

Simply put SLCs are better and more reliable cells so they have a higher read/write count and MTBF.

*en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solid_State_Disk#Single-level_cell_.28SLC.29_vs_multi-level_cell_.28MLC.29

Lower priced drives usually use multi-level cell (MLC) flash memory, which is slower and less reliable than single-level cell (SLC) flash memory.[28][29] This can be mitigated or even reversed by the internal design structure of the SSD, such as interleaving, changes to writing algorithms,[29] and higher over-provisioning (more excess capacity) with which the wear-leveling algorithms can work.[30][31][32]

 

[Sarath]

Hmm...okay i will be getting the z68 if such a board is available now.
I think SSDs of any type are just too expensive now. I think its wise to wait for price drops in the coming months (years?).

vickybat & Extreme Gamer thanks for the clarifications. Its only fair to get something with more features at the same price point. One can never say when it might just be useful.

extreme gamer. I see you have a ultra high end rig; have you got SSDs in your rig?

 

[Extreme Gamer]

nopes.

Im reusing my old HDDs lol

They are fast enough for me.

 

[Sarath]

lol and you are recommending an SSD to me
they are kinda expensive. Its like HDDs all over again.
My first one was 40GB
now SSDs come in 20and 40GB that we can hope to buy.

I am trying to complete the rig by this saturday. Hope everything goes smoothly.

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This is sweet; finally i have peace; here goes:

SL NO DESCRIPTION MAKE MODEL UNIT PRICE
1 PROCESSOR INTEL CORE i5 2500k 11000
2 MOTHERBOARD ASUS P8Z68-V PRO 12000
3 RAM G-SKILL RIPJAWS F3-1066CL9S4GBRL 2pcs 5250
4 GRAPHIC CARD SAPPHIRE/MSI HD6970 2GB 21000
5 HDD SEAGATE 1TB 7200.12 RPM 2730
6 DVD WRITTER LG 22X SATA DVD 945
7 PSU SEASONIC S12II 621 6000
8 CASE NZXT TEMPEST EVO/ HADES 6000
9 MOUSE RAZER IMPERATOR 3150
10 KEYBOARD RAZER ARCTOSA 2200
11 UPS APC 1.1KV 4725
12 MONITOR DELL ULTRASHARP U2311H 14324
13 OS MICROSOFT WINDOWS 7 5650

TOTAL 94974

 

[vickybat]

^^ Go for a beefier psu mate since you want to xfire 69702gb in future. Go for a 750w psu from seasonic or corsair.

Have a look at this:

Seasonic 750W S12D-750 80+ Silver Certification Power Supply @ 6.6k

Its available at techshop.in.

 

[Sarath]

That was what i was going to get initially but since i wont be going for SLI in the future i dont think thats necessary.

I put up the same link from techshop.in sometime back.

 

[topgear]

^^ if you are going to use only a single gfx card then get MSi GTX 580 TWin Frozr II but if you want to CF ( in the future ) then HD6970 is the right choice.

 

[Extreme Gamer]

he said his dad will find ~30k on a GPU too expensive.

but get the lightning 6970.

for 6k it is better to get the cooler master HAF 922.


and i was never recommending SSDs.I merely pointed out that more affordable SLCs are coming in price/gb vs currently available SLCs.

btw you can get SSDs as high in capacity as 1024GB.but those are over-the-top expensive SLCs with 3000$ and higher price tags.
MLCs are available upto 512GB.but these are also VERY expensive.