Crysis 2

vamsi_krishna

vamsi_krishna

Human Spambot
^ LOL.Not it is not.. your 4GB DDR3 Ram might be powerful than PS3's RAM (That's not my point) But not powerful than 4GB XDR. Thats all I'm saying. And thanks about optimization from devs. perspective lessons (which I already knew. Duh!)
 
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SunnyChahal

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When it comes to consoles, it's never really as much about the hardware (RAM, whatever) as software and optimization. But you're obviously missing that point. Never mind, really.

And games like Metro 2033 are just poorly coded rather than being demanding.
 
vamsi_krishna

vamsi_krishna

Human Spambot
SunnyChahal said:
^
When it comes to consoles, it's never really as much about the hardware (RAM, whatever) as software and optimization. But you're obviously missing that point. Never mind, really.

And games like Metro 2033 are just poorly coded rather than being demanding.
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Yes. I very much understand your concept. But... All I said was that XDR>DDR3. Thats it.
 
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ico

ico

Super Moderator
Staff member
vickybat said:
Can you please provide an indepth article to support your comment? Afaik, they are the same. If possible, open a new thread so that we can start discussing on it.
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well, XDR actually deals with the latency problems which we have with DDR3 DRAM. But still this is a secondary reason.

The real reason why graphics scale so well with consoles is because of low-level access like Sunny said.

When we talk about Windows games, firstly we have games designed in Direct3D, below it we have the driver and after that we get access to the graphic card. In consoles, you get straight access to hardware.

AMD had talked about how DirectX is holding back graphics on PC and how direct low-level to access to GPUs would improve the graphic performance immensely. (link) But this is again going to lead to fragmentation actually. As no one knows about the instruction set used by nVidia GPUs. AMD's specification is open.
 
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SunnyChahal

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ico said:
AMD had talked about how DirectX is holding back graphics on PC and how direct low-level to access to GPUs would improve the graphic performance immensely. (link) But this is again going to lead to fragmentation actually. As no one knows about the instruction set used by nVidia GPUs. AMD's specification is open.
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If what those lunatics over at AMD are saying actually happens, PC gaming will become as messed up as it was in the early 90s. A modern day example of such fragmentation would be Android for smartphones which lacks universal APIs resulting in lack of quality apps/games. In fact, Microsoft have incorporated DirectX 9 and Silverlight 4 on Windows Phone 7 to avoid fragmentation. Quite honestly, people over at AMD don't know jackshit about software. I mean, look at AMD Catalyst drivers.
 
gameranand

gameranand

Living to Play
SunnyChahal said:
If what those lunatics over at AMD are saying actually happens, PC gaming will become as messed up as it was in the early 90s. A modern day example of such fragmentation would be Android for smartphones which lacks universal APIs resulting in lack of quality apps/games. In fact, Microsoft have incorporated DirectX 9 and Silverlight 4 on Windows Phone 7 to avoid fragmentation. Quite honestly, people over at AMD don't know jackshit about software. I mean, look at AMD Catalyst drivers.
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Bro you didn't read the whole article. They didn't said that DirectX is bad but they just said that its a bottleneck and we all know that it is the fact. If developers have direct access to hardware game would be better and I do know that its very difficult with ever changing technology in PCs.
 
ico

ico

Super Moderator
Staff member
SunnyChahal said:
If what those lunatics over at AMD are saying actually happens, PC gaming will become as messed up as it was in the early 90s. A modern day example of such fragmentation would be Android for smartphones which lacks universal APIs resulting in lack of quality apps/games. In fact, Microsoft have incorporated DirectX 9 and Silverlight 4 on Windows Phone 7 to avoid fragmentation. Quite honestly, people over at AMD don't know jackshit about software. I mean, look at AMD Catalyst drivers.
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They still know more than you. :) No idea where that unnecessary blabber came from. Read the article again.

Coming back to the point, what they have said is that PC gaming today needs a proper low-level API which can truly harness the power of graphic cards produce today. (now who will come up with it?) Don't worry, this bottleneck will be realized later or sooner.

Second, moving onto OpenGL by developers would be a better move as it has faster call draw performance than Direct3D.

For the note, PC gaming is still messed up. Windows gaming is not.

Do you even know the reason why PC gaming was messed up in late nineties? It was again because of Direct3D. John Carmack's take: John Carmack's 12/23/96 .plan
 
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SunnyChahal

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ico said:
They still know more than you. :) No idea where that unnecessary blabber came from. Read the article again.
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People at McDonald's know more about making burgers than I do. Doesn't necessarily mean they make great burgers. "They know more than you" was a stupid retort. More so coming from an admin.

ico said:
Coming back to the point, what they have said is that PC gaming today needs a proper low-level API which can truly harness the power of graphic cards produce today. (now who will come up with it?) Don't worry, this bottleneck will be realized later or sooner.
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Not possible in near future due to vast hardware diversity.

ico said:
Do you even know the reason why PC gaming was messed up in late nineties? It was again because of Direct3D. John Carmack's take: John Carmack's 12/23/96 .plan
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Yes, I do.
 
gameranand

gameranand

Living to Play
@ SunnyChahal
I really think that this bottleneck should come in light so that we have better games at our hands which will run better and look better.
 
ico

ico

Super Moderator
Staff member
SunnyChahal said:
People at McDonald's know more about making burgers than I do. Doesn't necessarily mean they make great burgers. "They know more than you" was a stupid retort. More so coming from an admin.
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You didn't read the article properly. :)

Quoting from the article:
"It definitely makes sense to have a standardized, vendor-independent API as an abstraction layer over the hardware, but we would also prefer this API to be really thin and allow more low-level access to the hardware. This will not only improve performance, but it will also allow better use of the available hardware features."
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This is what AMD has said.
 
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SunnyChahal

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ico said:
yup, agreed. :) But then move onto something faster and which truly gets rid of of fragmentation. Use OpenGL over Direct3D.
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Then again, DirectX is a standard among PC gaming and OpenGL, well, not so much. Scratch that. If it's the low-level APIs you are talking about, let me give you an example. You own an Android phone, right? Do you in the user comments on the Market that how many app crashes occur? That's because Google have provided those APIs to the developers so that they can tailor their app to each phone. The problem arises when the developer isn't willing to spend time on developing specifically for each phone with different set of hardware. Just like Google needs a powerful standard APIs for Android, Windows does DirectX. No developer is going to use that low-level access and develop for every set of hardware out there. It's just not profitable.

DirectX is stable and secure, and in my opinion, it's doing just fine for now.

No API can truly get rid of fragmentation as well as provide low-level access to developers. Not for now, at least.
 
gameranand

gameranand

Living to Play
Sunnychahal said:
Quite honestly, people over at AMD don't know jackshit about software. I mean, look at AMD Catalyst drivers.
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Oh boy I have been using ATI cards for 2 years and believe me I haven't found a single bug in ATI catalyst. Quite honestly I like it more than NVIDIA control panel. And I have used NVIDIA card for 2 years also.

sunnychahal said:
Absence of a powerful standard API like DirectX. It lead to crap-ass games, poor optimization and what not.
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Thats bad.
 
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SunnyChahal

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gameranand said:
Oh boy I have been using ATI cards for 2 years and believe me I haven't found a single bug in that. Quite honestly I like it more than NVIDIA control panel. And I have used NVIDIA card for 2 years also.
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I've used NVIDIA cards from 2004-2009 and AMD ever since. NVIDIA cards are drivers are way better. You don't believe me? Ask Ethan_Hunt. He's also a long time gamer and not really that happy with his AMD HD4850.
 
gameranand

gameranand

Living to Play
sunnychahal said:
I've used NVIDIA cards from 2004-2009 and AMD ever since. NVIDIA cards are drivers are way better. You don't believe me? Ask Ethan_Hunt. He's also a long time gamer and not really that happy with his AMD HD4850.
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I don't have to ask anyone for that. I know that AMD drivers works great for me. Why should I ask when I have no problem with it whatsoever.
 
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