China vs India

[Renny]

^ I completely agree with you buddy China is way ahead of us, overtaking them isn't going to be easy at all,

We can only start to compete with them by developing excellent physical infrastructure.

 

[phuchungbhutia]

Do u watch news . . Ppl . . There was a news that the world body is downgrading india economic stance . . All because of govt policy of debt waiver and 6 pay commission . . Etc . .

 

[freshseasons]

PRESENT STATUS of an Individual , me from a Small City Nagpur, Maharashtra .
Right now there is no electricity since last 6 hours and i dont think my laptop can hold much.I cant go to internet cafe or to my friends home as there is no electricity there.Ohh one more thing. We are also not getting decent Petrol here.
So how the hell do i debate this topic here.
Thank God i wasn't debating China Vs India with a Chinese. All the time he would be blasting and punning me to hell in this post on account of his connectivity if not anything and all i could do was wait for the electricity to come back.
What would i type.
" I will be back when there is electricity ,but right now till i am back India is Way ahead of Chin....oppss auto shutdown initiated...byeeee"

 

[ico]

Check out this: *www.businessweek.com/magazine/toc/05_34/B3948chinaindia.htm

*www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/05_34/b3948421.htm

 

[iMav]

You guys should read TOI- Sunday Times, Shashi Tharoor's column this week is about Indo vs China. Must read. Nice article.

 

[goobimama]

First and foremost we need to educate our illiterate and dirty public. A clean and healthy surrounding goes a long way in deciding who is ahead and who is behind. We need some strict laws against littering, and maybe a community forum to keep a check on those laws. Walking on the streets of China against walking on the streets of our metros and even the towns is a totally different affair.

PS: Keep the anger down boys. Didn't notice this thread before.

 

[IronManForever]

Mutipartite Democracy.. Phew! Things never go quick in the kind of system India has; especially infrastructural development, and I dont have to remind you of the dirty politics being played.

Individual rights cannot be curbed, but then again those rights when excercised completely, may not be in the interest of the whole state(country). In communist countries like china nationwide policies are far easier to implement. We know the pros and the cons of that kind of system; ask yourself what would you like.

Ground up developmental approach is lacking. Health isnt anything to brag about, poverty with little or no improvement. Without those, you can't and shouldnt complain about not having a faster broadband when so many boiling issues surface each moment.

And regarding coming overtaking china, this way, youd really need a miracle.

Regards,
IronMan

 

[karmanya]

By introducing proper infrastructure; increasing our industries and reducing our dependencies on the bones the west throws at us(aka call centres). India can easily overtake china.
As far as cleanliness goes, china specifically beijing is so polluted, that the Olympics are in question, with countries flying in thier athletes hours before the event and flying them out directly afterwards.
I believe in the strength of the indian people. If motivated correctly(with leaders that give a damn) nothing can stop us.
Whats funny is that, india won't approve without proper leaders and we wont get proper leaders without educating the poor and we wont be able to educate the poor without proper leaders. Chicken and egg situation indeed.

 

[threeonethree]

First and foremost we need to educate our illiterate and dirty public.

A wise man once said, "we are drowning in information but starved of knowledge".
i say " indians are drowning in ignorance and starved of food" .

 

[mediator]

are you kidding me ? there is no way india can compete with china.. just look at the state of affairs in india. the curruption the poverty . we dont have the infrastructure.we dont have a powerful army as china . and to top it all , china doesnt have politicians like india, they have more control. in china they banned vehicles on the road for the beijing games and people also complied, can you see this happening in india? in india, our govt almost collapsed because of 1 nuke deal. seriously india is a joke compared to china.

May be! But I would still like to be born as an INDIAN again.. I won't take sides whether INDIA is better or china, but I think that at the end it comes down to the standard of living with friends all around and yes Freedom of speech u talked bt !!

 

[nix]

actually, in india a lot of powerful politicans are misusing the system. if people at the top are corrupt, then surely the people at the bottom are going to suffer. and there is no one at the top of india's political system to check for bad apples. but in china, the govt has a very good hold of its people. and their leadership is dedicated to make their country no.1 .
and very soon they are going to become the wordls sole superpower. they are rising rapidly. they have weapons in space too. we are really in big trouble coz its right beside us. see the whole world supports tibetans, but very few actually dare to speak out and confront the chinese. i support the tibetans too... they deserve a country. very good people. as a saying goes-people favor underdogs, but follow only topdogs...

 

[iMav]

Here you go, read this. @Mediator, you will like this. Others too please read it.

Why the elephant can dance better

In an April 20 column, i argued the case for Sino-Indian economic cooperation, suggesting the two countries had complementarities that could make such co-operation mutually beneficial (as some companies in both countries are already proving). I also dismissed any talk of comparing India to China, arguing that the two countries’ systems are so different that we simply can’t compete with China in the growth stakes. Lest some readers infer from this that i think China is superior to India in every respect, let me assure them that they are wrong.

Certainly, in absolute numbers, the Chinese are way ahead. Their export of electronic goods now tops $180 billion a year. One out of every three shoes exported in the world is made in China. They make 75% of the world’s toys. Foreign direct investment is at the level of $70 billion a year (for comparison, India gets $15 billion). Shanghai alone has nearly 4,000 skyscrapers (more than all of India, and exceeding Los Angeles and Chicago combined). China has built an estimated 60,000 kilometers of expressways in less than two decades and will soon outstrip the total length of the US highway network. Per capita income has risen nearly 10-fold since 1978 to over $6,000 a head, and the number of people living in absolute poverty has dropped from 425 million two decades ago to 26 million today. The population is almost totally literate; life expectancy is reaching developed-country levels. This year, China is expected to overtake Germany to become the world’s third largest economy, behind the US and Japan. It won’t stay Number Three for long.

Against this, though, are a number of factors suggesting that not everything is rosy in China. Economic growth has occurred at breakneck speed, but that means some necks have been broken: the human cost of development has not been negligible (population displacement, farmers thrown off their lands, villages flooded by dams, mounting pollution, low-wage labour in appalling conditions, widening disparities between the rich and the poor, an absence of human rights and few checks on governmental abuses). The Chinese have seen great and rapid improvements in their Internet access, but Beijing employs some 40,000 ‘cyber-police’ to monitor politically-undesirable activity on the Web.

Equally important, China’s success has not just been China’s; a disproportionate share of the benefit goes abroad, to the foreign companies who have set up factories in China. It has been estimated that of the $700 American price of a Chinese-made laptop, only $15 remains in China. Only four of the country’s top 25 exporters are Chinese companies, according to Forbes magazine’s Robyn Meredith, who adds that in practice, ‘Made in China’ really means ‘Made by America (or Europe) in China’. The Chinese financial system also leaves much to be desired. Where India has been running sophisticated stock markets since the early 19th century — and Indians are so skilled at doing so that they got the Bombay stock market up and running within 24 hours of the 1992 bomb blasts — China is new at the game, and not particularly adept at it. The financial information provided by China’s companies, especially those in the large governmental sector, is notoriously unreliable, and standards of corporate governance are low. There are no world-class Chinese companies with sophisticated managers to match Tata or Wipro or Infosys. China’s capital markets are weak and its banks inefficient: the Chinese banking system carried an estimated $911 billion in unrecoverable loans as of 2006, mainly to government firms. Stateowned enterprises still account for half of China’s economic assets. China has yet to master the art of channelling domestic savings into productive investments, which is why it has relied so extensively on foreign direct investment. And the world has yet to develop any confidence in China’s legal system (where a contract still means whatever the government says it means). In other words, it still lags behind India on the ‘software’ of development — not just technical brainpower or engineering know-how, but the systems it needs to operate a 21st century economy in an open and globalising world.

And then there’s politics. Whatever you might say about India’s sclerotic bureaucracy versus China’s efficient one, our tangles of red tape versus their unfurled red carpet to foreign investors, our contentious and fractious political parties versus their smoothly-functioning top-down Communist hierarchy, there’s one thing you’ve got to grant us: India has become an outstanding example of the management of diversity through pluralist democracy. Every Indian has been allowed to feel he or she has as much of a stake in the country, and as much of a chance to run it, as anyone else: after all, our last elections were won by an Italian woman of Roman Catholic heritage who made way for a Sikh to be sworn in as PM by a Muslim president, in a nation 81% Hindu. And our largest state is being ruled by a Dalit woman, from a community once considered ‘untouchable’, who bids fair to rule the entire country if she can make the coalition arithmetic add up right after the next election. She wasn’t promoted by the Brahmin elite in New Delhi; she rode to the top on the ballots of her political base. Contrast this with Beijing, where political freedom is unknown, leaders at all levels are handpicked from the top for their posts, and political heresy is met with swift punishment, house-arrest or worse. India’s politics means its shock-absorbers are built into the system; it has endured major road-bumps without the vehicle ever breaking down. In China’s case, it is far from clear what would happen if the limousine of state actually encountered a serious pothole. The present system wasn’t designed to cope with fundamental challenges to it except through repression. But every autocratic state in history has come to a point where repression was no longer enough. If that point is reached in China, all bets are off. The dragon could stumble where the elephant can always trundle on.

Times of india, Sunday Times, 3rd August 08

 

[The_Devil_Himself]

I wouldn't like to be a citizen of chine right atm no matter how fast it is progressing.That pretty much sums it up I guess.

 

[nix]

@imav, that article you posted isnt entirely convincing. sure, india is better when it comes to human rights and freedom and equality, but those are the only things in which india is better than china. how far can those get us? can it get us good roads?

also the author talks of the chinese "limousine" breaking down if it came across a pothole. i think china has handled all trouble very well. and repression though aint good, has been there for 50+ years in china, i think there is no way the chinese govt is gonna let go of it.

also , the issue of land acquisition. see, a country needs to grow, to grow it needs space. now how are you going to grow if there aint any space to grow. now this is a real issue and both side have a valid point so im not going to arrive at conclusions on this one..

 

[iMav]

^^ Why can't we get good roads, we don't need a military ruler or dictator all we need is someone with the will to do so. Saying that only a military ruler or a dictator can bring about radical development is naive. India has grown despite having the kind of negatives you talk about. It has got itself the respect of the world despite the governance you curse. It is considered as the best investment destination despite the politicians you despise. So if you say that only military rule and dictatorship are the way s of achieving development, then dude, I have nothing to debate with you about. If you are ready to give up your freedom and think that that is the only way of development then my friend you need to do some self-realization.

 

[nix]

@imav: first of all, its very hard to find a politician in india who really wants to improve india. secondly, other political parties will not let you do so. take the recent nuclear deal for ex.
politicians in india are busy making money themselves. they do not think about development. actually, to become a politician you need to spend a lot of money, so once you become a politician they first think of recovering what they have spent to get a ticket. then they plan development. but that rarely happens..soon they want more and more money..

 

[iMav]

I did write an article on how our biggest strength - democracy is also our biggest vice, viz-a-vi Nuclear deal.

Indian Democracy Is Flawed At The Core

But saying that a dictator is the solution is stupid my friend.

 

[shaunak]

On a lighter note:
Adhe india ke peehce to Made in china likha hua hai.... phir kya poochna...

 

[nix]

its not stupid, people in india have too much freedom and there are some who are misusing this freedom. india was better during british rule. once they left, mismanagement became rampant. you need to have some control. especially for india.

 

[iMav]

Ah I see, medaitor you wanna take this?