Camera talk...

sujoyp

Grand Master
@nac its all about light and they can carry everywhere. That we already saw 10 yrs back when sony entered mirrorless market..nothing new to tell.
I dont think there is anything left in full frame mirrorless which is not yet in market. Sony have already used all the tech in A7r3. (4k, inbody stabilisation, high fps, full covered cross focus point, control from app, can handle any lens with adapters, high quality EVF)

Nikon guys just want there f mount lenses to work on the mirrorless flawlessly...if nikon make it otherwise then its a recipe of disaster.
 
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raja manuel

In the zone
If the adapter does not have a motor to power the older lenses (and as of now there is no sign that the adapter has such a motor) then a bunch of lenses are going to be left out.
 
OP
nac

nac

Aspiring Novelist
He said (in the video) he can still use all his F mount lenses in this camera. I didn't know whether that was with adapter or not. Since you wanted to use your Nikon lenses, thought you could use that info.
 
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nac

nac

Aspiring Novelist
Watched live streaming. Prime lens pricing are too much for hobbyist/amateurs. Hope I didn't hear the pricing numbers wrong.

Japanese market pricing info (converted to INR) and availability.
Z7 - 2.77 L Sep end
Z6 - 1.7 L Nov end
24-70 - 86k Sep end
35 f/1.8 72k Sep end
50 f/1.8 52.5k Oct end
FTZ adapter - 23k Sep end
 

sujoyp

Grand Master
Hmm too costly..

i will then go sony or d750/d800 way in comming days..

Sent from my LG-G6 using Tapatalk
 

raja manuel

In the zone
Initial reaction to the new cameras seem to be: meh. Points of concern that have been raised include
* Single card slot, only accepts XQD cards for now (which I think are only made by Sony)
* Only 9 FPS, which drops to 5 FPS with metering
* Poor battery life of only 300+ shots per charge, which may have a very big impact on photographers who shoot in cold conditions (but there seems to be some doubt on the number of shots per charge as DP Review claims they got 1,600 shots)
* No 3D tracking for autofocus
* Lens adapter is a $250 additional purchase instead of an in-the-box accessory
* Some disclaimer on image stabilisation when using F mount lenses with the adapter
* The new, extra-large lens mount has an internal diameter of 55mm, just 1 mm more than Canon's current full frame lens mount, implying that Nikon has been behind all this while
* Quite a few jokes that, after all that hype about light, the first available lenses are f/4 and f/1.8
* The still-being-developed f/0.95 lens is only manual focus

It's pretty good for a first attempt, but the consensus seems to be that this is a camera that is designed to keep the Nikon faithful from jumping ship this Christmas shopping season rather than enticing Sony/Canon users to switch to Nikon. Better (and more expensive) cameras might appear in the future, but that is pure speculation for now.
 
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nac

nac

Aspiring Novelist
Anyone going for the new Nikon mirrorless'?
Not me.
1. Size and weight is not an issue for me.
2. MILC is comparatively way over expensive than DSLR.
3. I am interested in still photography, not video. Though there are some pluses in MILC, I prefer DSLR for stills.
4. And FF is too much for me, an hobbyist.
 

sujoyp

Grand Master
I saw many reviews of Nikon Z7 and my idea

1. Only targeted to existing Nikon users who have lenses. Others can move to more advanced Sony A7R3.
2. all setup is same as existing Nikon full frame
3. Nikon should release some cropped sensor mirrorless to test the water...how enthusiast will jump from Rs40k to Rs160k

and prices of lenses too much. I will wait for more from nikon.
 
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nac

nac

Aspiring Novelist
Canon rumours says Canon gonna launch it's FF mirrorless and about a handful of lenses. Yes, new mount. No info about in body stabilization. Any interesting parties here?
 

raja manuel

In the zone
I'm interested in the technology, but no anywhere near rich enough to make an immediate purchase. Canon's approach is quite the opposite of Nikon - no teasers promising anything or speaking grandly of light. It is only in the last 3-4 days that we know (still only rumour) that a full frame MILC will be announced on Sep 5. Before that all credible sources were saying that Canon would make an announcement only in 2019, and the most we can expect on Sep 5 would be a fixed lens mirrorless full frame.
If the leaks that have arrived thus far through Noshita are true (and there's a good chance that some of them are) then this will be a very interesting launch. -6 EV autofocus, a 24-70 f/2.0 lens, an actual battery grip (not just batter pack as Nikon is promising), and a lens adapter for EF to RF that supports drop-in filters to sweeten the deal for those who hate adapters, are all likely to generate a lot of buzz as these are interesting features in themselves, and not just 'look ma, no mirror'. Camera availability is a bit of a question mark as the rumours state that pre-orders will not be immediately open, suggesting that this announcement is just to keep Canon's flock within their pasture. I think IBIS can be assumed to exist as only one of the RF lenses, which might be a macro lens, has image stabilisation indicated in its name.

The next interesting bit of gossip is that Panasonic will announce their full frame MILC on September 25. It would appear that the debate over mirrorless MILCs is well and truly over - they have arrived for everything other than the very top of the line.
 
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nac

nac

Aspiring Novelist
May be Canon is announcing (if they are announcing) because Nikon has announced something.
Didn't know Panasonic was interested in FF market.
 

izzikio_rage

Technomancer
It seems like a repeat of the old story where the newbies were moving to digital and the pros stuck to film because it was more pure, gave better quality, had more flexibility etc etc. Then digital caught up in a big way and soon the world had moved to digital except some purists.

My guess is that by the time people move to mirrorless there will be some new tech that will start catching on (light feild was one of the hopes). Maybe it'll be drones now with people taking about the purity of actually going somewhere seeing the place and taking the shot rather than sending a drone to shoot what you can't even have seen
 

sujoyp

Grand Master
@amlan it will be boring to send drones to do photography and we sitting at a place just watching. Isnt Photography hobbie for most of us , its about seeing the world and capturing.
 

izzikio_rage

Technomancer
I'm sure there are people lazy enough to this. People will start marking cool shot places on GPS for drones to go to. Go on vacation, tell drone to go and get the sunrise shot while you chill at hotel, sip tea and put checkins for that sunrise spot that needs a 10km hike at 4am to reach

#fitnessgoals #exploringtheglobe #sleepisforsissies
 
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nac

nac

Aspiring Novelist
Who asked for teaser from Canon? Here it is?


Looks like a camera to me. Is it gonna be a FF? Somehow back of my head, I think RF is still a rumour. Why would Canon make a complete different mount and make EF M lenses not compatible with RF mount or RF with EF M? Will know tomorrow...
 

raja manuel

In the zone
Yeah, we will know tomorrow. But the complete spec sheet from the order form has leaked, as have renders of the camera and lenses. It's either an elaborate hoax which will backfire on Canon if the final release is underwhelming, or the many sources reporting the same thing are true: there will be a new RF mount, as it avoids compromising the future for short term gain. A possible secondary reason is that Canon will make it impossible for RF mount lens adapters to work on Sony cameras, locking Sony users out of the new lens goodies, such as the 24-70mm f/2.0 lens which might be the lens that sells the new camera given how so many people are drooling over it already. IBIS seems to be missing, as is Eye AF which is odd as the M series have that.

Of course, all the droolworthy specs in the world mean nothing if the camera doesn't work well. More than tomorrow's announcement, I am looking forward to seeing the camera in reviewers' and users' hands to see how well it performs. The Nikon Z seems to have raised quite a few concerns about its autofocus performance. Canon has used its M series as an incubator to field test their mirrorless technologies but actual usability in the wild is what counts.

And the next rumour is that, also coming this month, is Fuji's 'affordable' medium format mirrorless camera. These few weeks are turning into a very exciting time for photography nerds.
 
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nac

nac

Aspiring Novelist
Okay. EOS R is real. It's not rumour anymore.

I thought about watching it live if they are doing it live. But totally forgot it'. Remembered later in the evening and checked and it's already announced. Watched about a handful of videos from Canon USA youtube channel.

It does have eye AF, but IBIS is missing.
1.7x crop 4k videos like 5D M4?
Single SD card slot
There was no mode dial in early rumour images, now it's like a shutter button.
Pricing seems okay.
There is no official word (or I am yet to watch/read about it) about EF M to RF adapter or what's their stand on EFM cameras/lenses.
First impression of reviewers is not that good.
Only one dial?
No joystick, instead it does have touch and drag focus which is nice.
Existing Canon flashes are compatible?
Not impressive burst shooting
That capacitive touch thing is nice.
Seems like they rushed to announce this one as Nikon have announced something.

It's like they put some new things like digic 8 processor, borrowed 5D m4 sensor and put it in a mirrorless version of 6D m2.

@raja manuel Why did you think that Canon will make it impossible to use it's lenses by other camera users? Canon have an RF - EF adapter. Sony users now have to two adapters instead of one. RF to EF and metabones FE to EF adapter. Can't they use it in this fashion?:facepalm:
 
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raja manuel

In the zone
@raja manuel Why did you think that Canon will make it impossible to use it's lenses by other camera users? Canon have an RF - EF adapter. Sony users now have to two adapters instead of one. RF to EF and metabones FE to EF adapter. Can't they use it in this fashion?
First of all, let me thank you for mentioning me correctly :)
I don’t think Canon have an RF-EF adapter. I have only seen 3 adapters mentioned, and all are EF to RF adapters (Plain, Control Ring, Drop-In Filter). I don’t think an RF-EF adapter will be possible.

Existing Canon flashes are compatible?
I would assume this is the case. I am not aware of any reason why flashguns are affected by mirrorless/reflex mirror design, though I vaguely remember that Canon was rumoured to launch mirrorless optimised flashguns, but I thought that was only to do with the size of the flash for those who wanted a very compact package.

There is no official word (or I am yet to watch/read about it) about EF M to RF adapter or what's their stand on EFM cameras/lenses.
I haven’t heard of an official word either (though I may have missed it) but I think we can safely rule out an EOS M to RF adapter, based on the explanations I have read. The M has a flange distance of 18 mm, i.e., 2 mm shorter than the RF. It will have to be mounted inset into the RF mount for it to be able to focus on the sensor, and I haven’t heard of any sign of the RF mount supporting such inset mount capability.

I suppose the possibility exists that Canon could write some code into RF bodies that make them instruct the M lens to front focus, thus getting it to focus on the sensor. I don’t know if Canon will bother, as there may be performance issues that make the exercise unviable. And how many Nikon DSLR users put APSC lenses on their full frame bodies? Investing that much money into the body and then compromising it with an inappropriate lens is unlikely to appeal to many buyers.

The question assumes greater significance when posed the other way around: will an RF to M adapter be provided? The advantages are obvious: M-series users can build a collection of RF lenses before upgrading to a full frame, and RF-series users can use an M series as a backup or BTS camera. Unfortunately, and perplexingly, this also will not happen. There is only a 2 mm difference between the flange distance of the 2 mounts. A 2 mm thick adapter will not be possible. Canon seems to have chosen to sacrifice the M series and many people are wondering if its future is in doubt, though it is possible that Canon has user data to show that very few EF-S system buyers ever bought EF lenses beyond the 50mm f/1.8, and have preferred to have 2 distinct lens systems. Canon might still surprise us, though. They are still releasing new lenses for the M mount, so the system isn’t going anywhere in the near future.

Eye-AF is definitely a pleasant surprise. Portrait photographers, who are likely to be the primary audience for this camera, should be very pleased.

Canon have also released a whitepaper on the EOS R system. I would recommend this as a good read even for those who are not interested in the Canon ecosystem because it gives a good explanation for why the EF lens mount was no longer good enough, and the RF system is necessary. The shorter flange distance allows using a larger rear element that increases image quality, and avoids having a large front element. This enables creating lenses that are smaller, lighter, and optically superior than the older generation. Another interesting point is that the RF mount is also designed to permit higher volume and speed of data transfer between lens and camera which Canon seems to think is very important. They claim that this allows them to create much better images using DLO within the camera (for JPGs, and I suppose video) and on the desktop (for raw). This allows users to use the f/1.2 fully open without aberrations, and also avoid diffraction losses when the aperture is fully stopped down.

The whitepaper also says that Canon chose the 20mm flange distance because it had to be short enough to deliver superior optical performance while being long enough to provide sufficient mechanical strength to mount heavy lenses. The last point is interesting, as Sony has chosen a slightly shorter, and Nikon a much shorter, flange distance.

If I’m reading the whitepaper correctly, IBIS is coming – or at least, the design parameters support it. Whether Canon will actually implement it is a different question.

The detail in the whitepaper suggests that Canon was not rushed into an announcement by Nikon’s launch, though it is possible that both were rushed into launching products before the holiday shopping season begins due to Sony’s growing market share. I think both have launched minimum viable products, and we are likely to see more bodies, accessories, and capabilities appear as they become more comfortable with the direction the market is heading.
 
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