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Camera talk...

Discussion in 'Cameras and camcorders' started by nac, Aug 14, 2012.

  1. izzikio_rage

    izzikio_rage Well-Known Member

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    @raja thanks for the group link..

    Others, can you guys also point me to some good tutorials on the use of an off camera flash
     
  2. raja manuel

    raja manuel Active Member

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    a) You're still tagging the wrong Raja :D
    b) You're welcome. Post any questions you have, there will be valuable lessons for all of us

    I went to the International Camera Fair in Chennai today. This is the 3rd time I'm attending and the quality has gone down a lot, but it was interesting to see that Canon didn't bother to have a camera stall, and only had a small stall for photo printers - quite a contrast from a previous appearance of theirs when they not only had one of the largest stalls, but created it in the shape of a DSLR where you had to enter through the lens. Fuji, Nikon, Panasonic and Sony all brought out the big guns with huge stalls, as did Tamron.
    DJI had 2 large stalls. I know that drone photography, despite being illegal, is becoming very popular but I wonder why they needed 2 stalls in different parts of the exhibition.
    For some odd reason, Isuzu commanded a huge amount of floor space to show off their pickups and SUVs. Never seen cameras that looked like that :)
    Overall, this year was a very boring experience. I went with a lot of cash and with my debit card, expecting to spend a lot of money, and came back with just a couple of pamphlets.
     
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  3. izzikio_rage

    izzikio_rage Well-Known Member

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    Wow, really want to attend some events like this one.

    I've been asking around for drones too, but not sure how the law stands and how to buy one of them. Plus it looks like a great toy not sure if i can use one.

    Flashes are taking a lot of time, still trying to get the basics and loving every min of it.
     
  4. sujoyp

    sujoyp Well-Known Member

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    I am going to Tadoba Jungle safari this 30th. But if I carry only nikon D7000+300mm +TC I will be too restricted. I remember one of my friend with this combo got only face and eyes...the animal was soo close. Planning to get one more camera (rented) with me..lens I can use 55-200 :)
     
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  5. izzikio_rage

    izzikio_rage Well-Known Member

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    He he.... The lack of a high focal zoom in a DSLR
     
  6. sujoyp

    sujoyp Well-Known Member

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    No its the lack of low end zoom ..i will be on 420mm ..there should be something which cover 150mm-200mm

    Sent from my LG-G6 using Tapatalk
     
  7. sujoyp

    sujoyp Well-Known Member

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    Last monday I went to Tadoba jungle safari in such a hot day. It was 46 degree at that time and trip was from 2:30 - 6PM ....but unfortunately I forgot to carry my camera battery at home in nagpur...I found that when I was already in jungle and tried started the camera...huffff such a loss of opportunity...2 months of booking, 400km of car drive from nagpur, peak summer heat, 5000 spend on tour , carried the heavy lens all the way from mumbai to tadoba...and at the end no battery...I felt like crying :(
     
  8. raja manuel

    raja manuel Active Member

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    Man, that sucks. I feel for you. It also shows that the more we progress as enthusiasts the more we will have to be like professionals, and prepare (and actually use) checklists to make sure that we don't miss anything.
     
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  9. izzikio_rage

    izzikio_rage Well-Known Member

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    I've already gotten into a habit of keeping an extra battery and card in my camera bag. Have had many cases where i forgot the card in the laptop or forgot to charge the battery. Forgot my card on my dad's 60th b'day, had to borrow someone's card and use it.

    By the way my flash arrived some weeks back. Been reading about how to use it. Its one hell of an effort but you get some amazing photos.
     
  10. sujoyp

    sujoyp Well-Known Member

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    Using Flash can be very creative and quit a learning curve.

    I have secondary card in my camera (dual slot) but i have only one battery.
     
  11. OP
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    nac

    nac Well-Known Member

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    :(
    How much the original battery costs? If it's not much, buy one and keep it in the bag. As Raja said better keep a checklist and even do a test shoot when packing things.
     
  12. sujoyp

    sujoyp Well-Known Member

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    @nac I really do the test shot before I go for shoot. But maybe this time I skipped it coz it was family picnic. let me check for spare battery.
     
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  13. raja manuel

    raja manuel Active Member

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    What gear did you get?
     
  14. izzikio_rage

    izzikio_rage Well-Known Member

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    Couldn't find the TTL flashes you had suggested, went with a basic flash and a trigger so i can keep it off camera.

    Reading through a book called hot shoe diaries, its crazy amazing what you can do with a flash.
     
  15. OP
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    nac

    nac Well-Known Member

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    Friend of the studio I worked before had an emergency and I was asked if I can help. Since I was free, I agreed. I was told that I am just helping, but it turned out to be I was left alone.

    It was a coming of age ceremony, a small one. I am not used with working with flash lights a lot. I have very little experience and I am not comfortable using flash lights. Since it's an indoor function and I had no other choice but to use flash light system. I almost always shoot in Av mode, but flash is not syncing with the shutter speed I was getting. I thought the setup is capable of high sync speed. I don't know whether it's me or it's flash/trigger limitation. I had to shoot in manual mode, after a lot of test shots I settled with this setting f/11 @ 1/125 iso 100.

    The room where the function happened is about 10' wide (wall to wall), between camera and subject all I had was about 7' or so and I don't remember if I ever shot the whole function at that close distance. I already lost the confidence when I arrived it was late (because I was called late), learning that I am shooting alone, using flash system. Now I don't have good enough space to work with and even though it's a very small function and about 15-20 people in that small room is crowded. For many shots people were blocking flash lights and it's inevitable. Only if I had already knew this would happen and know how to setup lights accordingly I could have avoided this.

    He asked me to shoot good enough photos to print 20 sheets, I don't know if I had shot that many photos. I am not happy with the result and I don't know what he's gonna say when he sees the photographs.

    Will see...
     
  16. raja manuel

    raja manuel Active Member

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    That sucks, it's never good to show up unprepared and even more so when you don't have much experience of that particular situation. Let us hope the photos come out well.
    I'm curious about the settings, though. f/11 and ISO 100 suggest that either there was plenty of ambient light or there was no ambient showing up in the image and the flash was on very high power which would have led to frequent pauses while the flash recharged.
    If people were blocking the flash light, where was the flash? Couldn't you have just used the flash on camera and bounced off the ceiling?
    What gear were you using? If it was Canon, it is usually better to avoid Av with flash unless you know exactly what you are using.
    Also, was the camera communicating (not just triggering) with the flash? I am curious as to how it went above flash sync speed if the flash was communicating with the camera. I know some cameras do allow this, but I believe many of the popular models do not.
     
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  17. sujoyp

    sujoyp Well-Known Member

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    @nac ...Its really scary to shoot completely with flash... I have tried flash many times and i could use it best with Bugs only. F11 ISO 100 is too much and too dark..F11 is mostly used for landscapes, did you really needed so high aperture number. ISO100 will be clean but if you were using a full frame I think even ISO 800 will be that much clean.

    If the flash was a TTL one then it will definitely comminuicate , why do you need high speed sync in a birthday...even 1/200 is fast enough speed for people. manual flash will need to setup at the start using some testing..

    Hmm but I can understand ..its really difficult unprepared.

    last time when I took flash with me to shoot on prewedding, I was unable to take any descent shot in evening after trying 5-6 times. I Just pushed the ISO high and shutter speed low and kept back the flash in bag :(
     
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  18. izzikio_rage

    izzikio_rage Well-Known Member

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    Coming of age is the right way to look at it. You got a bad hand, now you have a chance to learn from it and ask the guy how he would have done it better.

    I'm sure you've gotten 20-30 good shots, its more about how to make that much more the next time you shoot
     
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  19. OP
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    nac

    nac Well-Known Member

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    Gear used 5D M4 with 24-105 f/4
    Studio flash light with white umbrella, don't know the exact model. It's Godox 400w with x? wireless trigger. Anything around 1/200 and faster resulting complete black or black at the bottom of the image. There isn't much ambient light in the room, but if I was a 2nd or 3rd photographer, I would have gone with no flash and shot @ ISO 3200.

    Flash light position one on the left and one on the right of the camera.

    I didn't have enough time to check the settings. When I arrived it was already late, and the photographer set the lights and gave me the camera. I set in Av and started taking test shots, and the exposure wasn't right. He tried and changed the settings several times while staying in Av mode and finally he moved to manual. He suggested to stick with manual mode and set it at f/11 iso 100 and 1/125. Yeah, instead of diffusing the light through umbrellas, could have bounced the light off of the ceiling. Don't know how the look would be, but at least I could've avoided cross shadows in group photos.

    Yeah, I needed that small aperture (F11), flash power wasn't getting any lower than 1/16, that's the lowest power I guess. I could neither increase iso nor open the aperture wider. I wanted high sync speed because when I tried in Av at first I was getting faster than 1/1000 if I remember right.

    Yeah, I am gonna call and go to his studio and learn about the flash lights and ask him what I should have done and also to see how the photographs have come out. Hoping he won't be angry with me. 20-30 shots isn't good enough for 20 sheets I think. I shot about 150-175 photographs in total.
     
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  20. raja manuel

    raja manuel Active Member

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    Black at the bottom of the image sounds like trigger lag. This is an issue I hear about every now and then from people using radio triggers. I've never experienced this using optical triggers.

    When you use flash in Canon’s Av mode, the camera sets the exposure as if flash weren’t present (purely ambient) and then adds flash to it. You’re supposed to use Flash Exposure Compensation to balance ambient and flash exposure. Using Av mode without FEC is a recipe for getting badly overexposed photos, depending on your metering mode and what you’re metering off. Getting a shutter speed of 1/1000 in A/v mode indoors sounds really high. What were you metering off, and were the resulting images correctly exposed or badly underexposed?

    Using dual umbrellas in a situation like this is a terrible idea. You have already pointed out that you get cross shadows and, unless you have the umbrellas mounted very high, you will get shadows on the wall behind the subject as well, as the room is very small. A bounced flash with a fill card is often a better option, especially one that allows you to zoom the flash head back to create a larger contact patch on the ceiling.

    Why did the other guy suggest you shoot at f/11 and risk diffraction losses? Wouldn’t turning off one of the lights immediately give you half the light, allowing you to shoot with a wider aperture?

    It sounds like the person who set this up for you didn’t know enough, both about the camera and lighting, and largely set you up for failure.

    Having said all that though, shooting events is always stressful as you don’t have time to stop, think, and work your way through issues.
     
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