Beryl on Linux Runs Cool Effects on Intel 915 - What has Microsoft Done to AERO?

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bikdel

Alpha Geek Banned
^^^ yes you are right i guess.... but the most notable feature of any UI is its 3d nature which may not be rendered by this IGP.... anyways nothing more can be expected... :)

but it isnt that either you can have it or you cant have it... i mean its like you can have some parts and you have to compromise on some...

things are not like that with aero..

BTW can u recommend me a distro with beryl?... or compiz, whatever....
which suits this hardware?
 

ray|raven

Think Zen.
CF does work on i810 chipsets.
Here's a thread from the debian forums about it.
*forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?t=...start=45&sid=599ba1c52ce013f3e2b382172c366be4

I'm posting the poster's xorg ... maybe it'll help
Code:
Section "Module" 
  Load "dbe" 
  Load "dri" 
  Load "xtrap" 
  Load "record" 
  Load "extmod" 
  Load "glx" 
EndSection 

Section "Device" 
  Identifier "Card0" 
  Driver "i810" 
  Option  "RenderAccel" "True" 
  Option  "backingstore" "True" 
  Option  "VBERestore" "True" 
  Option  "DRI" "True" 
  Option  "XAANoOffscreenPixmaps" "True" 
EndSection 

Section "Extensions" 
  Option "Composite" "True" 
EndSection 

Section "dri" 
  Mode 0666 
EndSection

Regards,
ray
 

bikdel

Alpha Geek Banned
^^^ yeah thanx for that.......

surprisingly i810 runs all eye candy of COMPIZ easily.........
great work linux!!! :))
 

naveen_reloaded

!! RecuZant By Birth !!
Its funny here that many dont support visita or xp?
This is my opinion..dont wage a war.
Vista as far as i know is a os of the future just like xp when it came years back.
I like vista.personally i think instead of supporting year old hardwares,i think it better to set the bar high for next gen system.this is how technology work.buy a ultra fast system today,it will become obsolete by 8 months.
Anyway my system stop perfectly.no problem.
Waiting for SP1 to HIT the net.

Edit: since i am msg ing from mobile some typo's do happen.
Its not stop.
Its runs
 
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mehulved

18 Till I Die............
Why should the things bought our hardworked money become obsolete so soon? It's not a technical barrier. Advances do and should happen but it shouldn't just obsolete the advances made a short time back.
 

ray|raven

Think Zen.
@naveen_reloaded
Dude,You cant just dump a system that does the job reasonbly well just cos M$ decides to launch a new OS.
I dont play games and I use a 128 meg system with linux(ZenWalk) to do everythin i need on a pc.I surf the net , listen to music ,watch movies and still have enuf eye candy on it to make me feel comfortable.
Now,i just dont want to upgrade to 2gigs of RAM just to do the same things on a "next-gen-os".

Yes,Technology does improve
but i cant justify throwing away a perfectly working system just to do the same things on a new os.

Also,how advanced is an os when it need 8 times more RAM to do the same things.The topic here discusses the same thing.Why do i need loads of RAM and a costly graphic card to run aero
when Beryl/Compiz does the same thing at lower requirements.

Now,also tell me this.
if M$ decides that SP1 for Vista needs a quad core proccesor and 4gigs of RAM then would u dump ur system and go buy a new one?

Regards,
ray
 
naveen_reloaded said:
Its funny here that many dont support visita or xp?
This is my opinion..dont wage a war.
Vista as far as i know is a os of the future just like xp when it came years back.
I like vista.personally i think instead of supporting year old hardwares,i think it better to set the bar high for next gen system.this is how technology work.buy a ultra fast system today,it will become obsolete by 8 months.
Anyway my system stop perfectly.no problem.
Waiting for SP1 to HIT the net.

I agree with you. But breaking compatibility with hardware everytime you launch something new is not fine. PC owners are better off a little that they can buy hardware at cheap rates. But what do you say about laptop owners for whom upgrading almost always means a new one? Is it affordable? May be for you, but not for me, and many others i guess. I just buyed my laptop 10-11 months ago and its obsolete now! This means that every 8 months i should keep 35-40K rs ready to keep up with technology? Is this the right cost for leveraging new technology? I am also a die hard Vista and Fedora Linux user. I too like both linux and Windows very much (I even reaaalllly love MacOS, but dont have a mac to satisfy my desires.)

Supporting 'Year Old Hardware' as you said is something that Microsoft HAS carried out. 915 is Vista capable. The thing is, if a competitive technology can work flawlessly on the same hardware, Then yours should work, may be in a minimalistic manner. AERO theme is tightly integrated with various graphics technologies of the OS but on the surface, its just a theme. Even when a greatly designed game finds a piece of hardware, it applies comensations like falling back to the version of technologies that that hardware supports. True intel 915 doesn't support pixel shader 3.0 in hardware, but is there no pixel shader support in 915 at all? Shouldn't there be a fallback in place? Ya absence of Hardware Scheduler is an issue, but then Compiz Fusion shows it clearly that the effects that end users are talking about can be achieved without it also.

What i am talking about is that there should be some Reduced Functionality mode, using which the features that are unavailable in harware(and the features that depend on these unavailable features) may be not used, or some fallback can be used if available. But the things that can work flawlessly on a hardware should work on it. Its not a game, its an OS. It can do that.

But as always there is no one to hear it. Nobody wants to look at customers needs if business is going on nicely. Its not only Microsoft, its with every company in the world. Acer, for example with their Hritik Roshan ads, lure customer towards their laptops. But anybody would like to hear what they did to me?
The laptop i buyed got a fault in DVD drive 3rd day after the purchase. I requested a replacement since it was only 3 days since i bought it. But they showed me their 'Warranty Policy' and said they will repair it. They took it for 6 days and were not answering when they'll return it (A DVD drive replacement takes them that much ). I only got my laptop after i directly called the Area Manager of ACER for U.P West region and warned him about it.

Then, after 6 months, i got a problem in Graphics card. The games (or 3d apps for the matter of fact) ran for sometime and then hangup for 5-10 minutes. Sometimes they come back sometimes they dont. And the times when they come back, they ran smoothly for another 10 mins and then again same thing happens. After 5-6 days, i got a nice big, wide white line in the middle of my LCD. This was the limit. I gave the laptop to Acer 'Care' (Or should i say Acer Doesn't Care) They first of all refused to understand what the problem was. All they were accepting was the LCD problem. Its only after i showed them whats happening by playing a game for 20 minutes in their office, during which they all were smiling on me, like i am a doing some joke. At last they took my laptop and then said that they'll return it after 3 days. After 3 days they said that they dont have an LCD in stalk and they'll have to order it from Bangalore and it'll take 10 days. After 10 days they said that the bangalore warehouse also doesn't have it and they had ordered it from Singapore. That took another 15 days. Add to it the fact that to inquire about my laptop, i had to call 3 numbers. All his happened at New Delhi.

And now, after a month, when the warranty period is over a few days ago, The graphics problem has reappeared. I know they had applied some dirty trick to let the hardware run for a few days more untill the Warranty period is over. I dont have any choice now, but to not use 3d graphics related softwares and games on my system, or to get a completly new system or to PAY THOSE FREAKS SOME MONEY TO REPAIR IT .

I know this story is not relevant here but i just want to show you the CUSTOMER SERVICE of a big j of computer hardware in the market today.
 

naveen_reloaded

!! RecuZant By Birth !!
Ok i agree but if yöü think they weren bothering think of their products,they officially said they wont support for 98 and very soon they will say for xp!why? Because if yöü keep on supporting the older gen systems and softwares ,yöü wont move ahead.yes there can be a reduced functionality ,kinda things.
I think sometimes yöü have to move ahead with leaving your old ones behind.
Tech is like that,like it or not.today i have 8600 gt,i know surely it will become obsolte one day.what can i do.ask game developers to create games for my age old gfx card?
Anyway about the laptop,i would prefer a pc for laptop.but again it all depends upon what yöü use for.it has downsides also,like yöü said,upgrading is very minimum....
Off topic:
After seeing so many support for linux, i want to try a linux distro.
Suggest me a good one and best one.
 

ray|raven

Think Zen.
Dude,You still dont get the point.
New products come everyday,doesnt mean the old ones are useless.
If u read my previous post,u'd know i'm using a ~3-4 year old system and am quite happy with it.Before Vista came did u ever hear an OS needing a gig of RAM?
Just cos one OS needs doesnt mean its the standard and everything below it is obsolete.
Even the latest Leopard from Apple needs 512megs.

And about the linux part,create a new thread in the open source section and there are many people who would gladly help you out.
But since you asked,get Ubuntu 7.10.
You can order a cd free @ *shipit.ubuntu.com

Regards,
ray
 

mehulved

18 Till I Die............
naveen, it's not about not obsoleting old technology. What is old has to be obseleted but it should should bedown with sufficient amount of time period and with enough notice. Amount of time should be the function of price.
 
mehulved said:
naveen, it's not about not obsoleting old technology. What is old has to be obseleted but it should should bedown with sufficient amount of time period and with enough notice. Amount of time should be the function of price.

Right said. The problem is not that something new shouldn't come out.What pains me is that if the old technology can be supported than why not? It could run with a warning ,may be in a reduced mode with technology fallback etc, but what the heck, completely denying its usage? And that too when it was running properly in the beta version? If i just want to try out the features for programmatic use, then what? There is much more argument on it than Microsoft is straightly denying with just one statement, "Its not supported".

I am not commenting on Vista as a whole. Its a great OS with nice set of features and technologies. As i said before i am using it no matter it supports AERO on my hardware or not. But it doesn't seems fair to me.
 

kalpik

In Pursuit of "Happyness"
^^ Imagine having to buy a new car, just because Bharat Petroleum came up with Speed 93, and they stopped "supporting" (read selling) the regular petrol..
 
mehulved said:
naveen, it's not about not obsoleting old technology. What is old has to be obseleted but it should should bedown with sufficient amount of time period and with enough notice. Amount of time should be the function of price.
Rightly said, people nowadays think that if a piece of hardware is 1yr old, it's obsolete! but they don't realise that there isn't any signifant change in the architecture of harware components other than CPU's and motherboards in the last 2-3 yrs.

It's like, the RAM(DDR1) that was sold 2 yrs ago is infact using the same technology that RAMs manufactured today(DDR1) with very little or negligible difference. It's the amount that Vista is asking for! not something new. So, if people keep saying that Vista is using updated and new hardware, they are wrong to some extent, the only thing that Vista uses differently in terms of hardware is updated Graphics engines. It still can run on your old RAM, your old CPU, your old motherboard, your old optical drives and hardrives etc. etc, the only thing it really needs is a better upto date graphics chipset. So, those fanboys who keep clinging onto the cliche that Vista is pushing the bar for technology is complete nonsense. It certainly pushes the bar for your money but certainly not for any hardware except the graphics. As far as the RAM is concerned, it's just asking for more to hog on more resources, when other OS's can do the same job faster or better with lesser amount of RAM. So, I really don't understand what the point is to keep telling that Vista pushes the hardware technology to new heights, MS dudes, it doesn't, it just asking you to spend filthy more on existing hardware technologies.

When some product is released in the market, a manufacturer has 2 choises, either to make their product really exclusive for an elite market that really is small or make a product that is compatible with most of the industry. I guess microsoft has gone for the first option ensuring that it goes directly into the hands of people who already have upto date hardware and spent a filthy amount of money to get a high end rig leaving back the rest of industry to wait and think whether they really need to adopt it. Just think about it, if vista was fully functional with 256/512MB of RAM, then most of us wouldn't have had second thoughts of trying it. But now that it's asking for too much, we take a step back and think, jee, what is so different in this OS from all the others that it's worth to spend money of a latest graphics card and purchase more amount of RAM. Hope eveyone gets the point I'm making;). Now, I'm sure @gx, who hasn't replied for long will come and reply to this to prove to everyone that I'm dumb, keep it coming.:cool:
 

ray|raven

Think Zen.
kalpik said:
^^ Imagine having to buy a new car, just because Bharat Petroleum came up with Speed 93, and they stopped "supporting" (read selling) the regular petrol..
Lolz,Nice Analogy kalpik.
Guess that kind of answers are needed to get the point into some folks' brains.

Regards,
ray
 

gxsaurav

You gave been GXified
Help~Is~Here said:
It's like, the RAM(DDR1) that was sold 2 yrs ago is infact using the same technology that RAMs manufactured today(DDR1) with very little or negligible difference.

Lolz...means doubling the bandwidth so that u can do more work in the same ammount of time due to better technology is bad? U really crackd me on this one.
It still can run on your old RAM, your old CPU, your old motherboard, your old optical drives and hardrives etc. etc, the only thing it really needs is a better upto date graphics chipset.

Well, yeah...what else are we saying from so long.
 

vish786

"The Gentleman"
its "we" who got to make "wise decision", should one update to very latest technology ? do we really require latest technology ?... totally depends on end users... pacing with recent technology will cost more money, constant updation of hardware cant be done... its better to stick with our needs.
 
gx_saurav said:
Lolz...means doubling the bandwidth so that u can do more work in the same ammount of time due to better technology is bad? U really crackd me on this one.

This is what you simply don't get dude, I clearly mentioned DDR1 in both instances.. sad that you still can't follow
 

praka123

left this forum longback
One thing for sure am not gonna believe -Vista is next gen and a superior Operating System.why does these folks forget M$ basic ideas of forcing Vista aspirants for new hardware.what about DRM,Digital Restrictions Management inbuilt.these all prove Vista is made NOT for users,but for Microsoft and its allies to be yet more profitable and make newer ways to "infringe" fair use rights.this company is noted for its anti-competitive practises and US,EU courts ruled against M$FT.I think,people rather than jumping for Vista thinking it's next gen fake,should try using GNU/Linux or other Free Operating Systems making the scenario balanced rather than hinging back for Microsoft & allies.
Vista's UI is excellent. :) that doesn't make an operating system superior dude!
regarding M$ Proprietary Directx and other technologies-they are new stumbling blocks made to prevent innovation as is their software patent FUD against Linux.You can be enlightened by the realities reading below comment at slashdot.org.I appeal you read below link
Microsoft has been scanning the horizon to ensure that no one begins to kick at the blocks that prop up their monopoly. They are constantly looking for new ways to create more blocks. Some of these blocks are directx, drm, application/windows APIs, network interoperability (or the lack thereof), WGA/WGN lie, FUD, patents

Their APIs, not just DirectX, are also locking blocks, that block you from other platform development. Most companies don't have the time to learn multiple platform APIs in order to develop software. Apple recognized this (well NeXt computers did) when they were creating their development tools. Another block they use today are patents. Microsoft is not making a patent portfolio to protect itself, it is making it to prop up the monopoly and to attack competitors such as Linux.
*linux.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=230391&cid=18696149
 

naveen_reloaded

!! RecuZant By Birth !!
Guys i know the technology lies the same.i think if yöü keep on creating the os and softwares For the existing hardware,what the use? Think of this,they keep building things for 4 year old system, then we would surely not have heard words like core 2,quad,etc,

Ok one question?
Can linux still be used by all ,just out of the box?
I dont know...
If the answer is no!
Then i think ms is doing a far job.
How many people are benefitted from ms because of their product?

I am not a fan boy...there are few things i hate in ms like this drm..things like that.other than it,they are pretty much good.

Ok i think its not the os which pushes the limit,the real culprits are games.what say guys?
 
naveen_reloaded said:
Guys i know the technology lies the same.i think if yöü keep on creating the os and softwares For the existing hardware,what the use? Think of this,they keep building things for 4 year old system, then we would surely not have heard words like core 2,quad,etc,

Ok one question?
Can linux still be used by all ,just out of the box?
I dont know...
If the answer is no!
Then i think ms is doing a far job.
How many people are benefitted from ms because of their product?

I am not a fan boy...there are few things i hate in ms like this drm..things like that.other than it,they are pretty much good.

Ok i think its not the os which pushes the limit,the real culprits are games.what say guys?
You're going off topic again mate. This thread is about the difference in resource usage by Aero and Beryl.

Offtopic: It's not the software industry that has pushed hardware, it's the other way around. There is hardware that is a 1000 times more powerful than what you use on your desktop, and the reason for that not coming into the destop segments is simply due to the lack of sofware support. And also, for the so called 'outdated hardware', frankly, no sofwares have been able to fully utilize their potential. There are lots of abilites that existing hardware components have which the sofware industry has not been able to tap fully due to it's inferiority. So, plz get the facts right, it has always been the hardware industry that has pushed the sofware industry to new heights, not the other way around. A very good example for you to drool over is the Cell processor
 
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