Beryl on Linux Runs Cool Effects on Intel 915 - What has Microsoft Done to AERO?

[blackleopard92]

No, wrong. U r confusing Turbo cache with GPU Virtual memory which was first developed by 3DLabs wildcat series of graphics cards which were able to allocate upto 16GB of GPU virtual memory both in HD & System RAM.

It will slow down, not much because GPU can keep the important data in local memory & not so important data in system memory & sawp as required. For example, a normal map for a game model can be places in system RAM while mipmap can be saved in local RAM. Microsoft made using virtual GPU memory easy using DirectX 10.

wrong actually. storing any sort of data which would finally be used to draw the screen would cause hiccups. and the use you identified is the reason why games require X amount of system RAM and Y amounts of Graphics RAM.
The only advantage i can see is that the memory management would move from programmers side to OS side.. now whether it's a feature/liability would be decided in the feature. personally, i don't think any Game developer is gonna use it as memory management systems are customised for each game.

No, u will not get a GPU accelerated UI in XP, it will still be GDI+ based CPU accelerated UI. Means opening 99 windows will slow your computer in XP but not on Vista.

yeah. this is true, but only for UI's that call GDI+ functions. if a UI uses Directx/ openGL features, then it would be HW accelerated.

U r getting it confused, what u r saying is VMR rendering, which means calculating some part of the video to play on screen, Aero calculates whole video in GPU. Things are different.

could be. but the same thing happen with compiz-fusion.

nVidia CUDA & AMD Firestream computing processors, have a look.

lolz. and how does these technologies have anything to do with AERO???

Both of them are independent technologies which have their own API's and SDKs.

links to CUDA.
*developer.nvidia.com/object/cuda.html
*en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CUDA

Aero uses DWM which is made in DirectX & uses WDDM drivers to interact with the hardware. They are interreleated.

u said it.
If anything uses any technology doesn't mean that they inherit their abilities. AERO is a Windows Decorator... and will be unless MS wanna screw themselves. it uses WDDM to power it.. it isn't WDDM!

@Kalpik , DX10 is definitely more powerful and easier to use than OpenGL and has better performance too . That's why we see that most PC game developers use DX to program their games .

Also , the greatest advantage is that by using DX you can make games for both the PC and Xbox 360(it runs a modified version of DX) with essentially the same codebase thereby reducing development time and cost.

Also , having a great product does not necessarily means that the software made using it will be great too , that depends on the programmer who uses the product . So if Aero does not run on low-end hardware then it is the choice of the programmer not the deficiency of DX

both APIs are equivalent in their abilities.. neither is powerful than other. please don't indulge in these statements, doesn't do any good for the speaker.
the reason why most game developers make games in Directx is because of the past.. read something about Dx history.. reveals to what huge levels did MS went to popularise Directx...
Directx runs on windows and xbox360.. opengl runs on Windows, linux , PS1, PS2, PS3, PSP, N64, GC, Wii, and DS. not to mention that pixar and other animation studios use Opengl, research papers are published in Opengl, military level reality simulators........ OpenGL usage is far to wide to be compared with Directx.

thats pretty simple i dont need a link for that .... Ubuntu is linux for humans .... God doesnt use linux which is for humans coz he aint human ... so if ur using ubuntu then u cant be God simple

lolz!!! made my day.. nice reply!

 

[gxsaurav]

Dude, I'm very well aware that 915 doesn't have harware vertex shader units but that doesn't imply that 915 doesn't support 9.0c. If one of the components that directx 9.0c supports is not supported by the hardware, it doesn't mean the entire thing is not supported.

Lolz...Pixel shader 3.0 are not there in GMA 900, this has to be in hardware. Do u even know what u r talking about.

The only advantage i can see is that the memory management would move from programmers side to OS side.. now whether it's a feature/liability would be decided in the feature. personally,

Not quite, OS manages the graphics RAM now in case of Vista which is always better.

 

[vish786]

.... with me kiddo ...

... feels so young 2 me ... we all know who's the kid here ... pleadin & cryin

 

[kalpik]

Since this thread has gotten out of hand, i will not reply here at any cost. I would like to summarize by quoting the thread title:

Beryl on Linux Runs Cool Effects on Intel 915 - What has Microsoft Done to AERO?

I know iMav will cry that i left because i got pwnd, but then i guess 99.99% of this forum knows right from wrong! And as the rest of the forum, im gonna add gx_saurav and iMav to my ignore list. Any further personal comments/remarks would be promptly reported to mods/admins and ill make sure necessary action is taken.

 

[iMav]

kya hua didnt find ur links .... lost ur bookmarks

 

[gxsaurav]

im gonna add gx_saurav and iMav to my ignore list. Any further personal comments/remarks would be promptly reported to mods/admins and ill make sure necessary action is taken.

Yo, what did I do U r the only Linux user i respect in this forum

 

[kalpik]

^^ Heh.. actually nothing.. Its just irritating when people take threads offtopic for nothing!

 

[iMav]

^^ Heh.. actually nothing.. Its just irritating when people take threads offtopic for nothing!

arre chill re ... aisa hi hotta hai ... even din used to swear at us for taking threads off topic but later he too realised that it is inevitable

 

[NucleusKore]

Why does installation of compiz fusion break KDE shortcuts, its so irritating when Alt+F2 does not work anymore

 

[kalpik]

^^ Dunno, im a gnome user, but im sure you'd get some answers if you post in the right section, cause most people (including me from now on) just ignore such threads..

 

[bikdel]

hey... guys i wanted to ask one thing...

what are the minimum system requirements of BERYL??

will the Intel 82810E grafix suffice? this is intel's onboard used in Pentium 3 and Celeron Line-up .. not much expectations but still!!

any ideas?

 

[praka123]

beryl is over.now whole project is again called as compiz or compiz-fusion.afair it needs 256MB RAM for smooth sail.

 

[infra_red_dude]

Thats the most minimum I guess (i810). You will however need to share a good amount of RAM for that. I'm not sure about everything that you'll be able to run on it but surely not the advanced effects!

Edit: But prakash, Beryl is better than CF on older hardware.

 

[bikdel]

^^^
well afaik this chipset has no option to set shared memory for onboard.....
the actual shared is maybe seen through DXDIAG... but it shows 4 MB
...

whereas the RAM in System Properties Dialog Box is 256 MB intact...
i mean should hav been 252....

afaik it is sharing around 1 MB but maybe the DXDIAG takes it for the actual intel AGP card viz. the 4mb Intel i752 which is the model upon which integrated i810 is based.....

 

[blackleopard92]

Not quite, OS manages the graphics RAM now in case of Vista which is always better.

nahh.. a game developer needs to optimise his game to max. memory forms a major part. only a game developer knows what things are best kept in memory and what to flush after certain usages, the memory sub-systems are therefore build to implement this priority system efficiently.. an OS would never know what's essential for the game, what is not.

At best, it is good for simple developers.

 

[gxsaurav]

^^^
well afaik this chipset has no option to set shared memory for onboard.....
the actual shared is maybe seen through DXDIAG... but it shows 4 MB

Intel 810 chipset had 4 MB of real memory + shared system RAM for a total of 32 MB RAM. I don't think it can run compiz properly

 

[bikdel]

^^^ total of 32 MB ram should be enough............
and the core is OPENGL compliant ...

i know it coz games like Hitman 2 : Silent Assasin which need Direct 3d renderer wont work on it properly but if we change the renderer to OpenGL it works really well... i mean its playable....

BTW... i have never seen the option of increasing share memory in the BIOS of my Gigabyte mobo with i810 chipset..........

any ideas?

 

[infra_red_dude]

Intel 810 chipset had 4 MB of real memory + shared system RAM for a total of 32 MB RAM. I don't think it can run compiz properly

No boss, no integrated desktop mobo has any RAM of its own. If I remember rite, as bikdel said, the memory allocation was fully dynamic.

You may install and try beryl. But install the mesa-dri package. I think only that provides direct rendering.

Btw, even with just 16mb shared a low end igp like radeon 7000 can run the basic effects of compiz/beryl

 

[bikdel]

^^^
dynamic meaning chaging ?? increasing whenever required and again decreasing when not??...

lol..
even new onboards dont have that stuff on them... this could be a good thing actually...

and 810 was afaik the first IGP of intel and its worse than radeon 7000 in all respects... so...

but i know its OpenGL compliant and therefore should not face anything difficult in rendering basic eye candy of beryl/compiz...

Anyways what do you mean by basic eye candy actually??...

i mean will the 3d desktop cube kinda thing be available?

 

[infra_red_dude]

Yes, 1MB is something thats the min. value of allocation. Over and above I guess it shares as much as required. This you can confirm coz the RAM in system props in Windows is shown 1MB less. Plus if I remember rite the bios has no or limited options for ram sharing.

Yeah, I know i810i is worser than igp7000. I was answering to GX query regarding 'minimum 32mb ram' Its a prev. gen. igp based on i740 + some enchcements = i752 embedded. But it should support the drop shadows, multiple desktops (may only support plane desktop) I'm not sure, jus speculating looking at the power of the igp. Best thing is to insatll and try for urself.