Gaming PC 55k

[Cilus]

Now you are definitely paid by amd or just trolling. Fx beating i5 that too haswell one in gaming. That claim is just bogus sir. Xbox one and ps4 have jaguar cores which are not even anywhere close to i series level of performance, Games are going to be influenced by gpu more than cpu but 8 jaguar cores being faster than an i5, I dont think so. Jaguar was chosen for low tdp. Its an atom competitor.

Conclusion: Intel kicks amd's ass in gaming

Mind your language buddy and increase your knowledge base a little. I know you are a Intel fan boy from long who does not give a sheet or does not understand about Architecture changes, Gaming optimizations and future trends. And that is the reason, you have just compared AMD jaguar present in the PS4/XBox directly with a performance of a Desktop Processor. Anyway, for your understanding, I am making it simple: The SOC or System On Chip used in those consoles are 1st implementation of HSA or Heterogeneous System Architecture which can be considered as a Many Core model where unlike Desktop Multicore Processors, all the cores are not of same type and they access same Memory using unified Memory Access Model (UMA). Here performance of a single Execution unit does not matter that much as the system executes any thread as whole, dividing the whole task dynamically among the different type of execution units. The Unified memory model eliminates the bottleneck occurring due to multiple access transmission among the different execution units (In our desktop, between CPU and GPU) and transferring the data among different type of Memory (Between System Memory and GPU Memory in our Desktop).
Because of that design, using advanced coding models like C++ AMP, OpenCL and even standard C++, developers can write codes in a very optimized manner, ensuring that every possible resource can be utilized in full extent. There are plenty of articles available about Heterogeneous Programing Models in the net and I suggest you go through those before branding someone as a Troll or something like you are definitely paid by amd.

Here is the Crysis 3 scaling which gives us a very good idea what happens when games use multiple core efficiently.

*www.techspot.com/articles-info/642/bench/CPU_03.png

Allow me to clear things.



Notice something (hint: its the bold words you probably skipped)?

Didn't get you properly.

 

[harshilsharma63]

Didn't get you properly.

I wanted to show that you, in a way, meant that games are 'becoming' multi-core optimized, and may not necessarily 'already' be so. It's now that the developers will make optimizing games for multiple cores a priority.

 

[Cilus]

I think you are right. There are couple of games like Battlefield 3, Crysis 2 and the latest Crysis 3 which are heavily optimized to use up to 8 Cores. Now due to the architecture in the current consoles, game developers will be happy to use multi-core optimization in the console version of the games which in turns enable them to port it very easily to PC as the underlying architecture for PC and Consoles are almost same...same x86 micro architecture.

 

[vaibhavs800]

Well first by betting on future of gaming you are forgetting about thousands of games made till now, in which i5 beats fx. Fx wont even beat i3 if you take every title from 2 years back to now. In crysis 3 also, the win wasnt big and that too over ivy. For crysis 3 you cannot forget almost every game built till now
No doubt fx is better in multithreaded apps, but just because next gen of consoles use 8 core processors isnt why gaming will go multithreaded. Xbox one wont even launch till late 2014 in asia and xbox 360 wont be going out very soon with a new one launched yesterday. And is the lowest performing console on which 90% of games will be coded on for next 2 years atleast like ps2 was coded for. Op will be upgrading again by the time gaming truely uses8 threads. I stand by the comment i5 is better in solely gaming as prooved by every game till crysis 3, in which also fx is equivalent. If anything a 3570k will have a lot more overclocking potential than fx which already comes at 4ghz.

 

[Cilus]

FX has more overclocking potential than Ivy bridge. Get your facts correct. Ivy Bridge is the 1st implementation of Intel's Tri Gate Transistor design and has some heating issues when overclocked. In many tests including Tomshardware and Anandtech, it is already proven that it is very hard to overclock Ivy Bridge processors over 4.5 GHz even with the best of the liquid coolers and 4.7 GHz is the maximum recommended although very tough to reach. in case of FX-8350, I run it at 4.6 GHz all the time with an 2 years old Hyper 212 Plus Cooler with a single Fan.

regarding Processor, when I'll buy something, I'll always try to make it more suitable for upcoming games and trends in software industry while making it comprehensive enough to handle current tasks. In any games, is there a huge performance difference between a i5 3570K and FX-8350 which is bad enough to provide you bad gameplay experience? No.
Plus in AMD platform, FX-8350 + AMD 970 chipset motherboard will cost more than 5K lesser than a i5 3570K + standard Z77 Motherboard combo which can be utilized to get a more powerful GPU which will again equal the gaming performance.
Last but not the least, with an Ivy bridge, your CPu upgrade path end here. With AM3+ socket, you can still have another upgrade of Steam Roller Processor.

 

[ASHISH65]

FX has more overclocking potential than Ivy bridge. Get your facts correct. Ivy Bridge is the 1st implementation of Intel's Tri Gate Transistor design and has some heating issues when overclocked. In many tests including Tomshardware and Anandtech, it is already proven that it is very hard to overclock Ivy Bridge processors over 4.5 GHz even with the best of the liquid coolers and 4.7 GHz is the maximum recommended although very tough to reach. in case of FX-8350, I run it at 4.6 GHz all the time with an 2 years old Hyper 212 Plus Cooler with a single Fan.

Huh? yes fx can oc with stock cooler to some extent.But in overall overclocking i5 and i7 will have edge anyday.

According to anandtech,Guru 3d,x-bit labs max oc they achieved for i5 was 4.7 while fx was 4.7-4.8

Fx 8350 comes factory clocked at 4.0Ghz. What if the 3570k were factory clocked at 4.0Ghz? it would Beaten the 8350 even more so.@stock i5 is faster than fx 8350 then Being that a 3570, 8350 all overclock to around 4.7Ghz/4.8ghz(fx), with the 8350 you can get a 0.8Ghz advantage, but with the 3570k you get a 1.3Ghz advantage.That's 0.5Ghz(500mhz) of an advantage the Intel's have over AMD

 

[Cilus]

^^Did anybody ask Intel for not to running their Processors at 4 GHz? It is their policy, what happens when Intel will release an i5 running at 4GHz stock speed or whether it will beat AMD, it is a completely irrelevant question, isn't it?

And regarding speed, I suggest you again read a little bit about different Instruction Execution Models available in Microarchitecture. Intel and AMD operates on a different philosophy while designing their Microarchitecture. The Intel model is known as throughput model which concentrate more to maximize the number of instructions executed in a time frame whereas AMD model is known as legecy IPC model where CPU needs to be optimized for running as many clock cycle as possible in a time frame while performing smaller amount of task in each cycle. That is the reason, AMD FX series processors run at so high stock speed while Intel Processors run at little slower stock speed. Try to understand, you can't compare two complete different architectures using clock by clock measure.

Fx 8350 comes factory clocked at 4.0Ghz. What if the 3570k were factory clocked at 4.0Ghz? it would Beaten the 8350 even more so.@stock i5 is faster than fx 8350 then Being that a 3570, 8350 all overclock to around 4.7Ghz/4.8ghz(fx), with the 8350 you can get a 0.8Ghz advantage, but with the 3570k you get a 1.3Ghz advantage.That's 0.5Ghz(500mhz) of an advantage the Intel's have over AMD

I don't know whether Tomshardware has published a separate article about Ivy Bridge Overclocking just for you, but this is what I found in Tomshardware:-
Overclocking Ivy Bridge: Treating This Hot-Head Gingerly - Overclocking Core i7-3770K: Learning To Live With Compromise

According to them, while overclocked to 4.5 GHz, i7 3770K was around 100 degree Celsius while load testing was performed.

 

[vaibhavs800]

I5 3570k comes at 3.4 ghz and would overclock upto 4.5, fx alrready comes at 4 and overclock upto 4.6?? Now the difference would be at most 100-200mhz while earlier it was half a ghz. Add to that significant more ipc performance i5 would be even more faster than fx 8350. I cant make you believe cilus but I really hope op is listening. The logic I just proposed is indenible and thats why 8 out of 10 people choose intel. Games took four years to become quad threaded in, I dont think any developer in right mind would focus to eke out more performance out of fx while i series is definitely 4 times more popular. 52% people use a quad for gaming and I dont think fx 8350 is gonna change it any time soon. Add to that humiliation two i5's will run in the power a single overclocked fx 8350 will take.

Ivy runs hotter because intel used cheap paste. Else sandy bridge wont even give you that point. Add to that that intel has a poorer cooler, ivy has to run hotter. But this is nothing a cm evo wont fix. The clocks proposed on fx are also not on stock cooler. And your point about amd's different philosophy is just bs. First gen fx were clocked a lot lower. If amd had any kind of advantage, they will reduce tdp instead of frequency which is not clearly the case. I5 is better than gaming and not a single site will support your argument cilus. Amd sells better cooler because they have to dissipate a lot more heat and they cant ask for profit margins like intel.

 

[Cilus]

Don't talk nonsese please. Check out the link I have posted. And with a liquid cooler like H60 or H80, fx-8350 will go to 5 GHz easily. I am on 4.6 GHz with with a cheap $29 cooler. What you're posting is purely your opinion without any valid points. Ivy Bridge's problem is because of the TriGate Transistor used, not cheaper paste. And what you think about Game development trends isn't going to matter or make any difference; otherwise you could have been a pioneer on that. Did you check the E3 demos of the upcoming games like BF4, Batman Arkham Origin, running? They are all are optimized heavily to use as many cores you can throw. So stop posting what you think and instead try to get the original picture out there about the development.

 

[varun004]

he is right about the cheap paste. Its all over ocn forums, they delidded the chip and applied different paste and saw huge temp drops. In some cases 20 to 30 degrees. And games being multi core in future is true but i5 is fast enough to compete with 8-core amd cpus.

 

[ASHISH65]

I don't know whether Tomshardware has published a separate article about Ivy Bridge Overclocking just for you, but this is what I found in Tomshardware:-
Overclocking Ivy Bridge: Treating This Hot-Head Gingerly - Overclocking Core i7-3770K: Learning To Live With Compromise

According to them, while overclocked to 4.5 GHz, i7 3770K was around 100 degree Celsius while load testing was performed.

regarding i5 3570k most sites able to achieve stable 4.7ghz oc with good cooler

Core i5 3570K processor review - Overclocking with Ivy Bridge processors

Review: Intel Core i5-3570K (22nm Ivy Bridge) - CPU - HEXUS.net - Page 9

*www.vortez.net/articles_pages/intel_ivy_bridge_core_i5_3570k_core_i7_3770k_review,4.html

yes it is not that easy to oc to that extent,but with good cooler it is possible

 

[vaibhavs800]

You think and evo cant overclock ivy i5 3570k to 4.4ghz?? Well you arr wrong then. And thats the same cooler you are using i think to reach 4.6
5ghz overclock club is actually quite small as can be seen on overclock.net and if there was some problem with tri gate tech, haswell would have overclocked higher than ivy which is not what preliminary reports are showing. You want to talk about upcoming games, and I am talking about every game built till now. Only game where fx matches i5 will be crysis3 and thats with a half ghz lead, after overclocking it will again be a white wash. I dont think op is reading anymore so lets just stop. But this discussion has been going on for a lot of time, and the only link you provide is of crysis 3 ( mind you one fps difference over a 3450) and links I can provide where i5 beats fx are numerous. The ratio of wins coming outfor i5 will be 10:1 lol? I can give you benchmarks in gaming where an i3 beats fx 8350, can you give the same where an fx 4300 beats i5. Thats why piledriver fx are second tier on tomshardware whereas every i5 from sb is tier 1.

 

[ASHISH65]

Now regarding op 's rig i would suggest get intel rig as you will get better gpu than what you get in amd rig as you in gaming gpu is all most matter.

Intel rig

Intel i5 3470 - rs 11200

Intel z75 ml-45k mobo - rs 4600

G.skill ripjaws 1600mhz 4gb ram - rs 2200

Seasonic s12 520w psu - rs 3900

Nzxt source 210 cabinet - rs 2,900

Dell s2240l ips led - rs 8500

Wd cavier blue 1tb - rs 3700

Saphhire hd 7950 - 3gb with boost - rs 22000

Total - rs 59,000

Amd rig

Fx 8350 - rs 11,600

Asus M5a97 R2 evo - Rs 7000

G.skill ripjaws 1600mhz 4gb ram - rs 2200

Seasonic s12 620w psu - rs 5100

Nzxt source 210 cabinet - rs 2,900

Dell s2240l ips led - rs 8500

Wd cavier blue 1tb - rs 3700

Saphhire hd 7870 - 2gb with boost - rs 18000

Total - rs 59,000

I5 + 7950 boost > fx 8350 + 7870 xt

 

[The Incinerator]

Layman terms and hope a conclusion......

Which one would you all buy....

FX8350 + M5A97 Evo + HD 7970 OC = Rs 47100

or

i5 3570K + Gigabyte GA-Z77X-UD3H + HD7950 = Rs 48500


Honestly any one in the right frame of mind and informed will buy the former. Nobody wants to pay more and end up with lesser FPS with the latter. Do ya?

Chuck overclocking ,it wont take you to the other side of the moon in FPS its the GPU that will,and the AMD set up gets me 8 cores and a faster GPU and that matters really matters in gaming.Gamers and Overclockers are different breeds. They have their mainboard to gears separated from the gamers.So.

Intel Z77 mainboard or Z75m45Lk ?,now who would suggest that cheap mainboard with questionable build quality actually built by the untouchable Foxconn. We all know Intel is exiting Mainboard business,that is another reason to avoid it,warranty will be an issue.You are cutting essential corners and suggesting cheap components to proove you point not good!

 

[Cilus]

Layman terms and hope a conclusion......

Which one would you all buy....

FX8350 + M5A97 Evo + HD 7970 OC = Rs 47100

or

i5 3570K + Gigabyte GA-Z77X-UD3H + HD7950 = Rs 48500


Honestly any one in the right frame of mind and informed will buy the former. Nobody wants to pay more and end up with lesser FPS with the latter. Do ya?

Chuck overclocking ,it wont take you to the other side of the moon in FPS its the GPU that will,and the AMD set up gets me 8 cores and a faster GPU and that matters really matters in gaming.Gamers and Overclockers are different breeds. They have their mainboard to gears separated from the gamers.So.

Intel Z77 mainboard or Z75m45Lk ?,now who would suggest that cheap mainboard with questionable build quality actually built by the untouchable Foxconn. We all know Intel is exiting Mainboard business,that is another reason to avoid it,warranty will be an issue.You are cutting essential corners and suggesting cheap components to proove you point not good!

I tried to put that point too....about the overall cost vs performance but I guess they won't listen anything you put.

 

[varun004]

The combo with better gpu is definitely the option op should go for.

 

[The Incinerator]

Then Cilus ,all I can say is we have done our job and now its OP's decision.

@OP do care for the future and the VFM factor when making the actual purchase.There are lot of factors that should be taken care of while buying the processor and Cilus has explained it in the sweetest [read easy] of way.Take Care!

 

[Cilus]

You think and evo cant overclock ivy i5 3570k to 4.4ghz?? Well you arr wrong then. And thats the same cooler you are using i think to reach 4.6
5ghz overclock club is actually quite small as can be seen on overclock.net and if there was some problem with tri gate tech, haswell would have overclocked higher than ivy which is not what preliminary reports are showing. You want to talk about upcoming games, and I am talking about every game built till now. Only game where fx matches i5 will be crysis3 and thats with a half ghz lead, after overclocking it will again be a white wash. I dont think op is reading anymore so lets just stop. But this discussion has been going on for a lot of time, and the only link you provide is of crysis 3 ( mind you one fps difference over a 3450) and links I can provide where i5 beats fx are numerous. The ratio of wins coming outfor i5 will be 10:1 lol? I can give you benchmarks in gaming where an i3 beats fx 8350, can you give the same where an fx 4300 beats i5. Thats why piledriver fx are second tier on tomshardware whereas every i5 from sb is tier 1.

This guy desperately needs some basic knowledge about Processor manufacturing as he is putting his own ideas without knowing a single thing. Haswell has heating issue due to the integrated VRM circuit inside the CPU package, not because of the Tri Gate Transistor issue Ivy Bridge was having. In Haswell, Intel 1st time implemented integrated Voltage Regulation Modules or VRM inside the CPU package. Now while overclocking, it is getting very hot, resulting poor overclocking potential.

And for overclocking i5 3570K to 4 GHz for matching the speed of a FX-8350, you again need a 2K cooler which I don't think Intel provides for free with their K series processor, adding to the system value. I hope you understand there is a term called Performance/Price ratio.

 

[The Incinerator]

Exactly! And as said by one reviewer that days of insane overclocking is gone with Intel and indeed so. Cooling the CPU with a CPU cooler which itself was quite a task while overclocking and now the VRM!

Indeed I was quite surprised amused reading his posts and that too with so much confidence he has posted

 

[vaibhavs800]

Provide me any link that tri gate tech is the reason for lower clocks instead of cheap paste. Anyways even if it affected overclocking it was more than negated by the drastically reduced tdp and increased ipc by moving to 22nm while amd is still stuck on 32nm. I know haswell has vrm on die. Now let me show something:
CPU Benchmarks - Crysis 3 Performance, Benchmarked On 16 Graphics Cards
fx 8350 cannot even perform better in crysis 3, the hail mary game you are trying to convince us with. As posted by ashish65 the links for overclocking more than prooves your point moot. Leave everything now tell me in which other game is fx is better oh great prophet, and please speak only on current games, not the upcoming ones where I cant provide any benchmarks