Volatge Stabilizer vs Surge Protector vs UPS. What to buy?

[kARTechnology]

I have a sony BX300 30" LCD TV and Pioneer VSX-916 AV Receiver and a custom made Powered Subwoofer(just a duplicate design of Pioneer Sub), Airtel HD, will soon get HTPC
Now what should I buy?
a Volatge Stabilizer or Surge Protector or UPS

I have some slight up's and down's in voltages rarely, as i hear my ups click and AC's stabilizer click sound sometines
last year there was 440v in my house as\ something happened over the pole shorting the neutral and live wires, all houses in the street electrical appliances fried...
and fried TV(CRT type), AC's and ALL had stabilizers
TV mobo died, 2 AC's mobo fried (stabilizer did nothing, still working as it is!), only Fridge's stabilizer died (stopped working, no lights at front) but started working when the service man plugged it in!!!)...

So I am not using the AV receiver everyday, because I am afraid that it will be fried( Don't know where they will repair though i have the service manual )

Now what should I Buy?
Tried using a vguard 600va ups for the AV receiver, but it made the lcd display on the front to flicker when running on battery mode! so not using it now...

 

[harshilsharma63]

UPS = voltage stabilizer + surge protector + battery backup. Get an APC 1.1 kVA UPS.

 

[kARTechnology]

UPS = voltage stabilizer + surge protector + battery backup. Get an APC 1.1 kVA UPS.

tried it. what i get is buzzing noises from speaker and the av receiver lcd flickering because of modified square wave output!

 

[harshilsharma63]

tried it. what i get is buzzing noises from speaker and the av receiver lcd flickering because of modified square wave output!

Who/what gives square wave output? And don't use UPS with an inverter.

 

[rock2702]

Who/what gives square wave output? And don't use UPS with an inverter.

You mean to say that don't charge the ups with the inverter? Any reasons as why not to?

 

[kARTechnology]

Who/what gives square wave output? And don't use UPS with an inverter.

nope
utility power -->> ups-->>equipment
when ups runs on battery mode it happens like that

 

[westom]

nope
utility power -->> ups-->>equipment
when ups runs on battery mode it happens like that

A square wave output is also called a pure sine wave output. Many only understand from the expression. Do not understand that a square wave is nothing more than a sum of pure sine waves. Many assume rather than learn actual facts about a UPS output.

Some of the 'dirtiest' power in a house comes from a UPS in battery backup mode. And that should be irrelevant due to superior filtering that must be inside all electronics.

What anomaly is a problem? For example, normal power for all electronics is even when an incandescent bulb dims to 50% intensity. Due to superior regulation and filtering circuits found in all electronics. How often does your voltage vary that much?

Of course voltage variation does not damage electronics. Either voltage (even with bulbs at 50% intensity) is ideal voltage to electronics. Or electronics simply powers off. That same voltage variation is a threat to motorized appliances.

UPS is for temporary and 'dirty' power during a blackout. A UPS provides time to save unsaved data.

Surges are best solved by the only solution found in every facility that cannot have damage. Not adjacent to an appliance. Always found where a surge might enter a building - service entrance. And within feet of the only item that makes surges irrelevant - earth ground. Best protector is within feet of earth ground. Protection increases with increased separation between protector and electronics.

If AV equipment needs protection, then so does a dishwasher, furnace, dimmer switches, and all clocks. What most needs protection is a surge exists? Smoke detectors. One properly earthed protector is the best solution. Is a least expensive solution. And protects everything.

Three completely different anomalies. Plenty more exist. Nothing addresses all anomalies. Each anomaly has a unique solution. UPS addresses one anomaly - a blackout. Its sine wave output is also called (in sales brochures) a 'pure sine wave'. A myth easy to promote when many only know from assumptions.

nope
utility power -->> ups-->>equipment
when ups runs on battery mode it happens like that

A square wave output is also called a pure sine wave output. Many only understand from the expression. Do not understand that a square wave is nothing more than a sum of pure sine waves. Many assume rather than learn actual facts about a UPS output.

Some of the 'dirtiest' power in a house comes from a UPS in battery backup mode. And that should be irrelevant due to superior filtering that must be inside all electronics.

What anomaly is a problem? For example, normal power for all electronics is even when an incandescent bulb dims to 50% intensity. Due to superior regulation and filtering circuits found in all electronics. How often does your voltage vary that much?

Of course voltage variation does not damage electronics. Either voltage (even with bulbs at 50% intensity) is ideal voltage to electronics. Or electronics simply powers off. That same voltage variation is a threat to motorized appliances.

UPS is for temporary and 'dirty' power during a blackout. A UPS provides time to save unsaved data.

Surges are best solved by the only solution found in every facility that cannot have damage. Not adjacent to an appliance. Always found where a surge might enter a building - service entrance. And within feet of the only item that makes surges irrelevant - earth ground. Best protector is within feet of earth ground. Protection increases with increased separation between protector and electronics.

If AV equipment needs protection, then so does a dishwasher, furnace, dimmer switches, and all clocks. What most needs protection is a surge exists? Smoke detectors. One properly earthed protector is the best solution. Is a least expensive solution. And protects everything.

Three completely different anomalies. Plenty more exist. Nothing addresses all anomalies. Each anomaly has a unique solution. UPS addresses one anomaly - a blackout. Its sine wave output is also called (in sales brochures) a 'pure sine wave'. A myth easy to promote when many only know from assumptions.

 

[kARTechnology]

@westom

What anomaly is a problem? For example, normal power for all electronics is even when an incandescent bulb dims to 50% intensity. Due to superior regulation and filtering circuits found in all electronics. How often does your voltage vary that much?

Not that much but when switching on Ac, when neighbor's windows AC's compressor kicks in i hear a tick sound from ups, and stabilizer of AC

Of course voltage variation does not damage electronics. Either voltage (even with bulbs at 50% intensity) is ideal voltage to electronics. Or electronics simply powers off. That same voltage variation is a threat to motorized appliances.

Surges are best solved by the only solution found in every facility that cannot have damage. Not adjacent to an appliance. Always found where a surge might enter a building - service entrance. And within feet of the only item that makes surges irrelevant - earth ground. Best protector is within feet of earth ground. Protection increases with increased separation between protector and electronics.

Well i have good ground, My electrican tested it wth a 100W bulb and said its good. But i don't get you

If AV equipment needs protection, then so does a dishwasher, furnace, dimmer switches, and all clocks. What most needs protection is a surge exists? Smoke detectors. One properly earthed protector is the best solution. Is a least expensive solution. And protects everything.

Yes we generally don't use stabilizers for washing machines and geysers...but could you explain " properly earthed protector"
AV receivers, TV's have a 2 pin plug not a 3 pin so there isn't grounding

Three completely different anomalies. Plenty more exist. Nothing addresses all anomalies. Each anomaly has a unique solution. UPS addresses one anomaly - a blackout. Its sine wave output is also called (in sales brochures) a 'pure sine wave'. A myth easy to promote when many only know from assumptions.

So are square wave inverters and Pure sine wave inverters same? then why wouldn't my Bravia TV work with my Luminous Square wave inverter(TV power led also didn't light up) whereas it worked with a Amaron Sine wave inverter?

Thank you for explaining me so much but why didn't all the excess current escape through the ground terminal ac when there was 440v? 2 AC's fuses AND mobo fried.

 

[kARTechnology]

bump anyone reply!!!

 

[harshilsharma63]

bump anyone reply!!!

replies rae too long to read. Post your query/doubt in short.

 

[baiju]

A square wave output is also called a pure sine wave output. Many only understand from the expression. Do not understand that a square wave is nothing more than a sum of pure sine waves. Many assume rather than learn actual facts about a UPS output.

This is new news to me that a square wave is a pure sinewave.

Square wave output in UPS is not good for inductance based devices like FAN. AVRs can also have problems with square wave as they use transformer. Even 'quasi sinewave' is not good for AVR. Infact, Denon warns against using UPS to AVR. I overlooked this and I had to service my Denon avr twice - in both case problem with power supply.

OP can go for a servo stabilizer or an online sinewave ups. Never use ordinary offline ups for AVR.

 

[kARTechnology]

This is new news to me that a square wave is a pure sinewave.

Square wave output in UPS is not good for inductance based devices like FAN. AVRs can also have problems with square wave as they use transformer. Even 'quasi sinewave' is not good for AVR. Infact, Denon warns against using UPS to AVR. I overlooked this and I had to service my Denon avr twice - in both case problem with power supply.

OP can go for a servo stabilizer or an online sinewave ups. Never use ordinary offline ups for AVR.

i think he means a sinewave is a sum of square waves

im not even using my avr, and I'm not getting any replies
boohooo

 

[westom]

i think he means a sinewave is a sum of square waves

The statement was correct. And taught even in high school mathematics. A square wave is a sum of sine waves. A square wave output can be called a pure sine wave output. They did not lie. Because square waves are a sum of pure sine waves.

A UPS is made as cheaply as possible. It will 'click' to batteries when voltage drops too low. And often will 'click' to batteries when other anomalies such as noise make it only think voltage is too low. The compressor creates noise. If voltage was reallly too low, then incandescent bulbs were also significantly dimming.


Safety ground (that the electrician tested) with something completely different from earth ground. The previous post was quite specific about that. And also provided a critical number:

And within feet of the only item that makes surges irrelevant - earth ground.

. How far from the earth ground electrode was the electrician's light bulb? "within feet" means less than 10 feet to be a "properly earthed protector". Safety ground prong on receptacles is clearly not earth ground. And also too far away (too many feet).

Irrelevant is a 'safety ground' connected to a TV. Earthing a surge - not the appliance - is only relevant. Again,

Not adjacent to an appliance. Always found where a surge might enter a building - service entrance.

Earth ground the surge at the service entrance. Ignore all comments about appliance safety grounds. Safety ground is only for human protection. Completely different from earth ground for transistor (appliance) protection.


Did you have a 'whole house' surge protector in the breaker box or electric meter pan connected as short a possible (ie within feet) of earth ground? If not, then 440 hunted for best appliances to connect destructively to earth. Those were the appliances that had both destructive incoming (from AC mains) and outgoing (to earth ground - not safety ground) paths.

Neither the recommended UPS nor power strip protectors even claim to protect from such anomalies. In fact, that UPS protection is typically near zero. Just enough above zero so that advertising can claim it was 100% surge protection. Subjective claims can deceive that easily. Can also describe a square wave as a pure sine wave.

 

[kARTechnology]

Did you have a 'whole house' surge protector in the breaker box or electric meter pan connected as short a possible (ie within feet) of earth ground? If not, then 440 hunted for best appliances to connect destructively to earth. Those were the appliances that had both destructive incoming (from AC mains) and outgoing (to earth ground - not safety ground) paths.

Neither the recommended UPS nor power strip protectors even claim to protect from such anomalies. In fact, that UPS protection is typically near zero. Just enough above zero so that advertising can claim it was 100% surge protection. Subjective claims can deceive that easily. Can also describe a square wave as a pure sine wave.

i don't get you
what all i know is the "earth" pin in a thee pin plug which goes to a copper rod deep inside the ground(mud or sand into the earth's crust)
i understood that this is for human protection

recently i read about rcd (like a mcb). if that is there, is the above thing i said is not required?

so belkin surge protectors and upses having surge protection are fake?
my apc ups for computer says 'lightning protection guranteed"
something metal oxide thingy absorbs thousands of surges-is this true

should i have a voltage stabilizer? i don't get low voltages like bulb dimming, etc

so what should i ask my electrician?

 

[kARTechnology]

bump - westom pls replyyy

 

[westom]

so belkin surge protectors and upses having surge protection are fake?
my apc ups for computer says 'lightning protection guranteed"
something metal oxide thingy absorbs thousands of surges-is this true

Numerous and different anomalies discussed as if something addresses all. Each is unique. Requires different solutions. For example RCD is about human safety. And is irrelevant to safety ground or earth ground.

Your building contains many grounds: chassis ground, digital ground, earth ground, safety ground, floating ground, analog ground, motherboard ground, etc. Many grounds are interconnected. And remain electrically different. Safety ground and earth ground are different for many reasons.

Voltage variations are irrelevant to surge protectors, any ground, RCDs, or most other anomaly solutions. Voltage variations are made irrelevant by what is already inside electronics. You have no voltage variations (no light bulb dimming). So a solution to one of the many anomalies (voltage variation) is unnecessary.

Belkin only claims to protect from one type of surge that typically does no damage. It is not fake. It does exactly what its spec numbers claim it will do. You did not ask about protection from that anomaly.

View spec numbers for MOVs. In a UPS, it may absorb hundreds of joules. Meanwhile destructive surges typically are hundreds of thousands of joules. So what is its protector device (MOV) doing?

An electrician can earth a device so that typically destructive surges are harmlessly earthed - do not enter the building. That 'whole house' protector is effective when connected low impedance (ie 'less than 3 meters') to single point earth ground. All four words have significant meaning (some electricians may not understand the relevance of each word). A properly earthed 'whole house' protector means protection already inside all appliances is not overwhelmed by a rare and potentially destructive transient. That 'whole house' protector would also protect near zero joules inside a Belkin or APC.

If it says 'lightning protection guaranteed', then it defines that protection with numbers. For example, it might only protect from a lightning strike across town - if numbers are missing.

A 'whole house' protector is about connecting even a direct lightning strike harmlessly outside to earth. Protector should state how many amps. Since a direct strike can be 20,000 amps, then a minimal 'whole house' protector would be at least 50,000 amps. That protector for everything may costs less than an APC UPS.

That is about one anomaly. RCD, safety grounds, a Belkin, and voltage stabilizer do nothing for that one anomaly. Even the ‘whole house’ protector is ineffective if 'single point earth ground' is not properly installed with a low impedance connection.

Which of the many anomalies (previously mentioned) concern you? Each anomaly typically has a different solution. Protection for the typically destructive surge is about the earth ground. And how that surge connects to earth - either via a wire or via a ‘whole house’ protector.

 

[kARTechnology]

Numerous and different anomalies discussed as if something addresses all. Each is unique. Requires different solutions. For example RCD is about human safety. And is irrelevant to safety ground or earth ground.

Your building contains many grounds: chassis ground, digital ground, earth ground, safety ground, floating ground, analog ground, motherboard ground, etc. Many grounds are interconnected. And remain electrically different. Safety ground and earth ground are different for many reasons.

Voltage variations are irrelevant to surge protectors, any ground, RCDs, or most other anomaly solutions. Voltage variations are made irrelevant by what is already inside electronics. You have no voltage variations (no light bulb dimming). So a solution to one of the many anomalies (voltage variation) is unnecessary.

Belkin only claims to protect from one type of surge that typically does no damage. It is not fake. It does exactly what its spec numbers claim it will do. You did not ask about protection from that anomaly.

View spec numbers for MOVs. In a UPS, it may absorb hundreds of joules. Meanwhile destructive surges typically are hundreds of thousands of joules. So what is its protector device (MOV) doing?

An electrician can earth a device so that typically destructive surges are harmlessly earthed - do not enter the building. That 'whole house' protector is effective when connected low impedance (ie 'less than 3 meters') to single point earth ground. All four words have significant meaning (some electricians may not understand the relevance of each word). A properly earthed 'whole house' protector means protection already inside all appliances is not overwhelmed by a rare and potentially destructive transient. That 'whole house' protector would also protect near zero joules inside a Belkin or APC.

If it says 'lightning protection guaranteed', then it defines that protection with numbers. For example, it might only protect from a lightning strike across town - if numbers are missing.

A 'whole house' protector is about connecting even a direct lightning strike harmlessly outside to earth. Protector should state how many amps. Since a direct strike can be 20,000 amps, then a minimal 'whole house' protector would be at least 50,000 amps. That protector for everything may costs less than an APC UPS.

That is about one anomaly. RCD, safety grounds, a Belkin, and voltage stabilizer do nothing for that one anomaly. Even the ‘whole house’ protector is ineffective if 'single point earth ground' is not properly installed with a low impedance connection.

Which of the many anomalies (previously mentioned) concern you? Each anomaly typically has a different solution. Protection for the typically destructive surge is about the earth ground. And how that surge connects to earth - either via a wire or via a ‘whole house’ protector.

Over high voltage ( like 440v as trees fall on wires, my whole street's tv's, fridge's, ac's etc were fried. My ac did have a voltage stabilizer called " powerline" - but mobo died but stabilizer has got no damage AT ALL
I was not at home that time and even the main board where meters,fuses, mcb's are kept there the indicator lights ( small ones) had blasted scattering bulb pieces


Low voltage rarely (recently started because of summer, tube lights dim slightly, ac stabilizer makes loud buzzing nose until I switch the ac off ( using remote)

Lightning protection? I didn't experience this still. I have a Airtel dish

Now when I switch ac on, tv stabilizer makes a tick sound(ac stabilizer does this too at same time)

 

[westom]

Over high voltage ( like 440v as trees fall on wires, my whole street's tv's, fridge's, ac's etc were fried.

If surge protection is a concern, then do not confuse this issue with low voltage. Or a voltage stabilizer that 'clicks' or buzzes even due to noise.

Normal is for a surge current (lightning or a 440 volt fault) to blow through many items. And only damage one. That is how surges typically work. A voltage stabilizer conducted a surge that only damaged a motherboard. That surge was incoming and outgoing via the stabilizer. But damage was elsewhere in that path - a motherboard. Because that surge was not connected to 'single point earth ground' BEFORE entering the building.

You describe a surge (a 440 fault, lightning, squirrel shorting wires, grid switching, etc). And then had damage because installed was nothing that even claims to provide that protection. Voltage stabilizer only does what is already inside every computer.

Why is a stabilizer making noise when voltage is perfectly ideal for appliances? Cheap stabilizers will react to many irrelevant events, sometimes, so that many will recommend it. Clicking can increase profits. Meanwhile, it apparently connected a surge to earth destructively via a motherboard. And (based upon what you did and did not post), it made that destructive connection by bypassing (compromising) protection inside a computer's power supply.

Summarized above (details not provided) was a solution for surges. If that anomaly concerns you, then limit your post to that anomaly. Voltage stabilizer completely irrelevant. If 'destructive' low voltage is a concern, then do not discuss lightning and 440 volt faults. Each anomaly is completely different.

No one solution exists for all or even most anomalies. Different solutions often must be located is completely different locations. Anything that operates on an appliance's power cord is often already solved inside that appliance.

That other anomaly: when a TV is switched on, do incandescent bulbs dim to 50% intensity? If not, ticking is only reporting a confused or cheap voltage stabilizer. And says nothing about a surge current.

 

[kARTechnology]

If surge protection is a concern, then do not confuse this issue with low voltage. Or a voltage stabilizer that 'clicks' or buzzes even due to noise.

Normal is for a surge current (lightning or a 440 volt fault) to blow through many items. And only damage one. That is how surges typically work. A voltage stabilizer conducted a surge that only damaged a motherboard. That surge was incoming and outgoing via the stabilizer. But damage was elsewhere in that path - a motherboard. Because that surge was not connected to 'single point earth ground' BEFORE entering the building.

true - the fuse in mobo blowed and relays, ic's went kaput in ac
pls tell how should i install "single point earth ground' BEFORE entering the building."

You describe a surge (a 440 fault, lightning, squirrel shorting wires, grid switching, etc). And then had damage because installed was nothing that even claims to provide that protection. Voltage stabilizer only does what is already inside every computer.

Why is a stabilizer making noise when voltage is perfectly ideal for appliances? Cheap stabilizers will react to many irrelevant events, sometimes, so that many will recommend it. Clicking can increase profits. Meanwhile, it apparently connected a surge to earth destructively via a motherboard. And (based upon what you did and did not post), it made that destructive connection by bypassing (compromising) protection inside a computer's power supply.

should i change ac stabilizer? any recommendations?
recently, 5 stabilizers(for 5 ac's) burned down/smoked in my shop. 1st 2 were gone next the three...

Summarized above (details not provided) was a solution for surges. If that anomaly concerns you, then limit your post to that anomaly. Voltage stabilizer completely irrelevant. If 'destructive' low voltage is a concern, then do not discuss lightning and 440 volt faults. Each anomaly is completely different.

this is the solution, right? 'single point earth ground' BEFORE entering the building.

That other anomaly: when a TV is switched on, do incandescent bulbs dim to 50% intensity? If not, ticking is only reporting a confused or cheap voltage stabilizer. And says nothing about a surge current

i have only tubelights.... and it is a 3 phase connection
and not the tv but the ac...if i switch geyser on, the tube lights dim slightly noticible

 

[westom]

this is the solution, right? 'single point earth ground' BEFORE entering the building.

Best is to start with basics. A surge (ie lightning) seeks earth ground. A best connection from cloud to earth was a wooden church steeple. But wood is not a superior conductor. A surge current (ie 20,000 amps) creates a high voltage in wood. 20,000 amps times a high voltage is high energy. Church steeple damaged.

Franklin connected the surge to earth. A best connection was a lightning rod and wire to earth ground. A surge current creates a near zero voltage on that connection. 20,000 amps times a near zero voltage is near zero energy. No damage.

Lightning (or 440 volts) far down the street seeks earth ground. A best connection to earth is via your appliances. Appliances are not a good conductor. So a surge current may create a high voltage in that appliance. Current times a high voltage is high energy. Appliance damaged.

Connect each incoming wire to single point earth ground. A best connection is an earth ground located where all wires enter the building. Any utility wire connected directly to this ground has best protection; near zero voltage created. Other utility wires that cannot connect directly must make this same connection via a 'whole house' protector. That surge current times near zero voltage (due to a short connection to earth) means near zero energy inside the building. No appliance damage.

Essential is how any incoming utility wire connects to earth. Best is a hardwired connection (ie cable). Other incoming wires (AC electric, telephone) must make the same connection via a protector. All incoming wires must connect as short as possible to the same (single point) earth ground.

A utility demonstrates examples of single point ground (preferred and right) and an example of defective earthing (wrong):
Tech Tip 08 -Duke Energy

If the surge current (ie 440 volt fault) is earthed BEFORE entering the building, then it does not hunt for earth destructively via the motherboard. Or dishwasher, RCDs, clocks, TV, or voltage stabilizer. Described is how to avert that one anomaly. A current that hunts for earth ground destructively via appliances. Also described is how to avert another anomaly. A current that hunts for earth ground destructively via the building. Both anomalies are averted by the quality of and shortest distance to earth.