Vista - Will it Fly or Fall

[eddie]

Re: Vista - Chalega ki Doobega?

The main reasons mentioned, that can go against Vista's growth are Price, Hardware requirement, lack of new features and security.

Price: Since when has this stopped world from accepting Microsoft's software? People buy and they WILL buy, no questions asked. Apple and Linux in their current state don't come near Microsoft because of the marketing and business collaborations. Microsoft will market Vista very aggressively and will collaborate with PC vendors for supplying it. This is where the competitors lose out and Vista gains.

Hardware requirement: For last many years, it has been because of Microsoft that hardware manufacturing companies have flourished. Do you remember the times when XP was about to be released? We all had 64MB RAM and Celerons happily running Windows 2000 or Me. Did we have any complaints? No...but then came XP. What happened? People first upgraded to P4 and 128MB RAM just to install XP, then came SP1 and the RAM requirement went up to 256MB, then came SP2 and I can bet at least 80% people in here are running 512MB RAM in their computers rights now. Hardware requirement just doesn't hold ground. People WILL upgrade their hardware to install Vista.

Lack of new features: Ermm...what were the major feature enhancements between Windows 2000 and XP again? No, the blue theme and that wallpaper don't count. Once again the feature difference between XP and Vista will be "looks". Thats it...it looks cool and it is something to boast about. That is the reason good enough for people to move to it. Who would buy spanking new hardware and want to buy some old OS...no one!

Security: It is Microsoft!!! It has never been "Secure". Which one of their products failed because of that reason? I don't remember any. Do you?
__________
I am just going to reply to the read-a-little-more part. I am not trying to ignite a flame war here and did not mention any positive points of Linux in my above post but just want to clarify what you are saying.

When non-geek people generally think of an OS, they want things to be smooth (its a fact, many people will vouch for this). Please, look at what's easier: playing a DVD on windows, or downloading stuff and spending a large amount of time configuring stuff in the wild hope that you might be able to play it on linux.

When I try to play my numerous AVI's and MPEG's on any Linux distro they play without any problems. I don't have to install XVID or something else because they come pre-installed. What happens with Windows? We have to install codecs? I don't see people cribbing about that. I have read enough about this MP3 codec thing. Its like only Linux has this problem. Don't you have download a gazillion things at the time of preparing Windows to work smoothly? Why so much of hype about Linux installation?

I've seen more people learning to configure things on windows without any help from the internet or a geek, than people trying out stuff by searching on google for help with Linux (I'm just one of them).

Do you use spoon while eating? Do you have any difficult in working out how to do it? No, because you've always had your food that way. Now try eating your rice using chopsticks. Can you do it? 90% of Indians can't do it and that is a conservative statement. The same logic applies to your question. People have been brought up on Windows. They have always used it...hence no problems.

And the distros that do have these features out-of-the-box are indeed costly. (I rest my case here).

Freespire, Dreamlinux, Ubuntu Mint, various other Ubuntu derivatives. I rest my case here.

Another guy got scared of the GPL, referring to 'Use at your own risk' (yeah, he read the license).

Ask him to read MS EULA as well. We will talk about it then

And yes, no one was very happy or keen to use the command line for every damn mundane jobs.

No need to. I never touched it in SuSE.

 

[subratabera]

Re: Vista - Chalega ki Doobega?

Nicely explained @eddie. I have found something that may be useful. Please check it out...

It's 2007 and Linux has arrived!

 

[mediator]

Re: Vista - Chalega ki Doobega?

In my personal opinion, Vista's here to stay, whatever Linux enthusiasts and Mac maniacs might say.

You know, I've introduced some of my friends to Linux (SuSE and Ubuntu). But no one of them gave any hints of liking Linux. I still consider myself a n00b with linux (well, maybe an above-average n00b), but the number of phone calls I had to answer with respect to Linux doubts and queries were far too many when I compare it with Windows XP. People learn Windows far more easily than Linux. I would never complain about the advancements in the Linux GUI (openSuSE 10.2 is a real eye candy). But my friends were never satisfied with the Linux experience overall.
At one instance, my friend wanted to use XGL with compiz in SuSE on his PC. He's been really frustrated with it, and he still hasnt succeeded in configuring it. The result: he has given up. Also, since he's an avid gamer, he has shown the finger to Linux (believe me). If open-source freaks on this forum have grudges against my comments, read a little bit more.
When non-geek people generally think of an OS, they want things to be smooth (its a fact, many people will vouch for this). Please, look at what's easier: playing a DVD on windows, or downloading stuff and spending a large amount of time configuring stuff in the wild hope that you might be able to play it on linux. I've seen more people learning to configure things on windows without any help from the internet or a geek, than people trying out stuff by searching on google for help with Linux (I'm just one of them). C'mon man, why is open-source still closed when it comes to adding a little bit of proprietary stuff, that might endear it to more people on the lookout for a good software experience?? No mp3. No videos. This is not what normal people want. And the distros that do have these features out-of-the-box are indeed costly. (I rest my case here).
My friend was just one complainer. Another guy got scared of the GPL, referring to 'Use at your own risk' (yeah, he read the license).
And yes, no one was very happy or keen to use the command line for every damn mundane jobs.
Linux still has a loooong way to go, and I'll be waiting for a 'real' user-friendly Linux OS like I've been doing for 2 years.

Mac might be able to give Vista a run for its money, but I really don't see it gaining a foothold in India very soon (thanks to closed hardware and of course, the astronomical cost)
{Since we're on the topic, one of my friend's cousins couldn't access Sify internet through her macbook pro, and sify guys had no idea what the hell was going on; she had to use bootcamp to install XP...Anyone who might be able to help please PM me}.

So back to the topic...Vista will BE the preference for many now, in my own opinion...but then again, I could be wrong.

I request u not to deviate the topic to O.S1 VS O.S2 etc. If u wanna express ur thoughts n feel like deviating the topic then it wud be better to post here

And since u r giving so many "friend's" examples who r "noobies", then allow me to give one too similarly. My friend tried to install Xp when it was new n it was affected by "Blaster worm virus" resulting to reformat and reinstall. Then it the misery of BSOD's, crashes,.....list is too big! Another friend of mine cudn't install VISTA on his new PC. I dunno the reason, then he tried to install Xp, but the install disc got stuck on the starting stage itself. He said "Bhai maine haath jod liye. Toone linux kaha tha, please give that now". And next guess what? He said he liked Knoppix 5.1.0 very much. I told him try fedora and ubuntu tooo then.

So the list is endless! Please stick to the topic and discuss why Vista will "chalega ya doobega". Eye Candy? So many people have posted their VISTA desktop screenshots in this forums. And none of them matched the power of Beryl on Linux.

If u think I'm a linux fanboy, then u need to read my previous post again!

I can give a list of convincing points for why VISTA will not chalega. But then again, there r too many factors involved. So I think nobody can really say if it will "chalega ya doobega".

 

[praka123]

Re: Vista - Chalega ki Doobega?

Vista,might had this time included many UNIX like features like File system permissions and user permissions setup incorporated.that may prevent virii infections>?

 

[ECE0105]

Re: Vista - Chalega ki Doobega?

Not really sure. I have tried to use Linux for a long time now, but going nowhere. Mac? Forget it. I am a poor man and I can't afford even the Mac Mini, which is for around 33k (I guess...)

My P4 2.8GHz(511) with 1GB RAM etc... Cost me 20K. That is a better config than the Mac Mini (in terms of Hardware).

I can run Vista, but without the Aero Interface. But as long as Piracy Wins..., I have no issues with Vista or any other OS that M$ brings out.

Jai bolo Pirate Maharaj ki.......

 

[mehulved]

Re: Vista - Chalega ki Doobega?

1 thing I should agree, if GPL scares them, then EULA should kill them. EULA is repstrictive whereas GPL is permissive.
They don't bother reading anything in Windows cos they're more or less familiar but Linux is new so they bother reading such licenses.
And it's not GNU who will sue them, it's the owners of patents which could sue them. But, that chances of that happening in India is null.

 

[sreevirus]

Re: Vista - Chalega ki Doobega?

When I try to play my numerous AVI's and MPEG's on any Linux distro they play without any problems. I don't have to install XVID or something else because they come pre-installed. What happens with Windows? We have to install codecs? I don't see people cribbing about that. I have read enough about this MP3 codec thing. Its like only Linux has this problem. Don't you have download a gazillion things at the time of preparing Windows to work smoothly? Why so much of hype about Linux installation?

Please tell me which distro? It might help me and some of my friends.
But please, when I was first introduced to windows XP, it played all my music and video CDs. Linux didn't. I had to learn a lot of stuff. And I could say that its my modest knowledge of Linux that's keeping my friends from formatting their ext3/reiserfs partitions. Please, do not assume that I'm anti Linux. I love trying things out, that's why I'm still using Linux. But also, please don't assume that I'm an uber-geek.

Do you use spoon while eating? Do you have any difficult in working out how to do it? No, because you've always had your food that way. Now try eating your rice using chopsticks. Can you do it? 90% of Indians can't do it and that is a conservative statement. The same logic applies to your question. People have been brought up on Windows. They have always used it...hence no problems.

I anticipated an answer like this. I wasn't talking about people being used to Windows or Linux. I was talking about complete n00bs. I've seen people using Windows for the first time in their lives. And I have seen them being at ease on new land. Not the same in case of Linux. (For instance, my Dad). You don't blame people who never even have used a spoon in their life for not knowing how to use it. (But I will also not deny that some had problems with viruses).

But the opinion was similar in most cases: Linux is tough to use.
I'm not talking about developers and coders here, well versed with all the technical jargons associated with computers. I'm talking about simple minded people who need a simple OS.

Again, as some of you guys said, familiarity with windows is what keeps it going. You can't deny that now, there are more people knowing windows than linux. So support is a deciding factor. And i was answering to "kya vista chalega?". Daudega to nahi, na hi doobega, par chalega zaroor.

Ask him to read MS EULA as well. We will talk about it then

Well, he ain't too worried about MS suing him for "disassembling, reverse engineering or trying to reduce the software to a human perceivable form..." because he knows he can't do things like that.


BTW, c'mon yaar, don't flame me for trying to introduce Linux in a Windowed building.


And mediator, I was trying to explain a scenario with respect to the topic. If you felt I was deviating, I apologise.

 

[Aberforth]

Re: Vista - Chalega ki Doobega?

I remember an incident of a friend a few days back when he peeped my laptop while I was asking and asked, "Do you have Windows Vista?". I went on.."No, I have Windows MCE and Linux and I don't really need it" He went on sayinf how a classmate had Vista and how amazing, goodlooking it was. I booted to OpenSuse, showed him the ripple, cube effects, it had him astounded. But when I told him about the requirements and ways to enable it in his own laptop he backed off saying, "You are a technical guy, I can't understand these things. Windows will do for me." Well this is the picture which shows Vista isn't going to sink very soon. Firefox free, faster, quicker to install, easy to use and more secure but we still have a large market share of IE which pales Firefox share in comparison. So its too naive to predict outcomes of a multibillion dollar company on such assumption. Maybe MS will fall but not with Vista....

 

[mehulved]

Re: Vista - Chalega ki Doobega?

Well, he ain't too worried about MS suing him for "disassembling, reverse engineering or trying to reduce the software to a human perceivable form..." because he knows he can't do things like that.

GPL doesn't sue for such stuff either, on the other hand it encourages you to modify GPL'ed softwares and create something suitable for yourself.
We're going way off topic now. Maybe we can start a thread on this in Open Source.

 

[mediator]

Re: Vista - Chalega ki Doobega?

I'm not talking about developers and coders here, well versed with all the technical jargons associated with computers. I'm talking about simple minded people who need a simple OS.

Simplicity and ease is also governed by smoothness in running of the OS, maintainence, repair work, .....etc. For windows it implies disk defragment, installing antivirus,antispyware and its continous updating and updating the O.S itself continously. I dont think anybody wud call all this simple and easy.

Neways, I too dont intend to start a flame and OS war here. But I just request u to install any latest distro, equip it with codecs and beryl and then show it to ur friends. If one can download and install codecs,office,winamp,winrar,winzip.....etc in windows, then installing beryl and codecs in linux shudn't even bother them. There r many distros like suggested by @eddie which have all of this packaged in the cd itself! So u don't even need to install them from net.

Neways I'm glad to see that u have a similar mindset like me to learn things. So please read this, all the posts.

 

[ssdivisiongermany1933]

Re: Vista - Chalega ki Doobega?

Piracy zindaabad

 

[rajasekharan]

Re: Vista - Chalega ki Doobega?

The only factor that prevents users from going to other o.s is games .as long as gaming support is not on others MS will rule . Sealed

 

[eddie]

Re: Vista - Chalega ki Doobega?

BTW, c'mon yaar, don't flame me for trying to introduce Linux in a Windowed building.

This is what I clarified in BOLD when I wrote that part in my post. I do not want to start a flame war and was not flaming anyone. I clearly wrote a post explaining how Vista will chalega but I just wanted to say that it will work "not because" of Linux (or any other OS) shortcomings, lack of features, lack of easiness to work with or lack of anything else. Vista will chalega because of its own reasons and the reasons are brand Microsoft, aggressive marketing, business collaborations and lack of people's willingness to change.

I can still go on and give an appropriate reply to your successive post but this topic is not about Linux and I will not try to convert it into one. Lastly please don't even think that I was flaming you.

 

[Aberforth]

Re: Vista - Chalega ki Doobega?

@ mediator - Windows is still 'user friendly' for most users as it is easy to use, lot of free support is available (evey computer user can more or less troubleshoot windows), installing programs in a snap, a hell lot of programs are available, most of music and movies play out of the box (instead of a "X Player says it cannot play X file"). Windows is also supported by the computer copany, drivers are easily available either on company CD or for download (For example I had to run around, mess with compiling ALSA 1.0.14 RC2 drivers to get my sound card to work). Software installations rarely break a Windows system, you can always uninstall it if it gives problems while you can't really be sure whether the next installation would render your Linux distro unbootable. People like to try out softwares and different stuff, just a basic, stable OS running default programs isn't enough.

Keeping these points I'd say we can't predict a downfall of Vista yet, though Linux users will keep growing. People are generally suspicious of 'free stuff' and one friend of mine, on my suggestion to try out Linux quips "What if the guy who makes Linux starts charging for it after somedays?". I had to spend a half hour to teach him about Linux kernel, open source, distros....only to get it at the end, "Oh someone would do so much coding only to give it away for free? He must be a foolish guy, I'm not putting his software in my system." If more people like these exist Microsoft doesn't have much to worry about.

 

[mediator]

Re: Vista - Chalega ki Doobega?

^^ You can read my posts in Linux Vs windows debate.

Neways, tell ur friend one more thing. Tell him Norton used rootkits and then tell him the definition of rootkits and then whats closed source and whats open source.

 

[aryayush]

Re: Vista - Chalega ki Doobega?

... installing programs in a snap...

Yeah, sure! :roll:

You haven't seen how programs should be installed yet.

 

[shantanu]

Re: Vista - Chalega ki Doobega?

Vista Sure Gonna Rock!!!!

 

[Aberforth]

Re: Vista - Chalega ki Doobega?

Yeah, sure! :roll:

You haven't seen how programs should be installed yet.

I have seen installing programs in Windows, Linux, BSD and Mac. Installing and uninstalling softwares in Windows is next only to OS X in terms of ease but like it or not, its still involves a fair bit of work and bandwidth hogging in Linux. Especially dependency issues.

Neways, tell ur friend one more thing. Tell him Norton used rootkits and then tell him the definition of rootkits and then whats closed source and whats open source.

Doesn't work. Everyone knows Windows is the holeist OS in terms of security yet they stick to it. Anyone I suggest to try out Linux emphasising security, quips, "I already have Windows and I have no problems besides what have I got which needs so much security anyway". For such people virus are a problem only when their system is slowed down, they can't go to their sites...not because their privacy is at stake.

 

[mediator]

Re: Vista - Chalega ki Doobega?

^^I agree to that. Yea thats human nature alright!

 

[aryayush]

Re: Vista - Chalega ki Doobega?

I have seen installing programs in Windows, Linux, BSD and Mac. Installing and uninstalling softwares in Windows is next only to OS X in terms of ease but like it or not, its still involves a fair bit of work and bandwidth hogging in Linux. Especially dependency issues.

Yeah, that is what I meant. I was saying that if installing programs in Windows is a snap, then it is heaven in OS X.
In this aspect, it definitely goes in this order: Mac OS X >> Windows >> Linux.