QwertyManiac
Commander in Chief
Eh? Din is one of the oldest members around here! You seem to be in the new group of ignorant believers who's settled here self-boasting about the same.
Vista is still the most secure OS to date.
- Status
@Eddie, regarding your comment ("The point is that IF (and that is a big IF) those companies would have walked away then where could have they sold their content") to my post, I would like to point out (as gx_saurav said), we still have TVs to watch the content on... Again, this is a very theoretical situation, and I am guessing that if push came to shove, they might not have done it... But without knowing further details, I am not going to comment on the veracity of the statement. Like I said in my post, this was one of the few points taken from an article and I mentioned that I was posting it just to show alternate point of view. The article posted earlier and the article in my link, both lacked proof. They had only statements. Statements made without proof are basically opinions, and both are biased.
@praka123, I asked a few questions in my earlier post:
1. Give me an example of how MS did whatever they wanted and US changed their law for them.
2. Suggest an alternative Digital Rights mechanism that is both user friendly as well as (atleast) equally effective
3. Why you believe that DRM is used to watch what you are doing and send it back, and that do you think that it was not possible earlier for them to track your personal info and send it if they wanted to?
Rather than answer any of my questions through statements backed with proof (dont give me links to opinion sites. Give me links to news sites), you have started making more statements on the same. Without giving proof, all your statements are also FUDs (just like the patent-infringement FUDs that MS raised).
I ask for you to explain and you think I am a MS fan. I dont care if you think I am a MS fan. I know what I am, and I dont need to convince you. Just for your info though - I use Windows. I have used Linux for a couple of years (this was 3 or 4 years ago). Working with it was hard due to device installation trouble and limited software range, I was willing to pay cash for Windows because it allowed me to use the software that I need. Right now, my work is tight, and when it becomes a bit flexible, I plan to try out Linux and hopefully, Mac too to get myself uptodate on their capabilities. When my friends and relatives ask for advice, I try to steer them clear of piracy and educate them on free alternatives (rarely, they go for Linux, usually, it is free Windows apps).
Just one final question - are you for or against digital Intellectual Property (forget DRM for this question)? IP refers to a creation of the intellect that has commercial value, including copyrighted property such as literary or artistic works, and ideational property, such as patents, appellations of origin, business methods, and industrial processes... The digital rights mechanism attempts to ensure that the digital media are distributed as dictated by the owner. Forgetting the current implementations, do you believe that the digital media should be distributed as dictated by the owner or do you think that the user can do what he wants with it after he pirates or purchases a copy of the digital media?
Arun
@praka123, I asked a few questions in my earlier post:
1. Give me an example of how MS did whatever they wanted and US changed their law for them.
2. Suggest an alternative Digital Rights mechanism that is both user friendly as well as (atleast) equally effective
3. Why you believe that DRM is used to watch what you are doing and send it back, and that do you think that it was not possible earlier for them to track your personal info and send it if they wanted to?
Rather than answer any of my questions through statements backed with proof (dont give me links to opinion sites. Give me links to news sites), you have started making more statements on the same. Without giving proof, all your statements are also FUDs (just like the patent-infringement FUDs that MS raised).
I ask for you to explain and you think I am a MS fan. I dont care if you think I am a MS fan. I know what I am, and I dont need to convince you. Just for your info though - I use Windows. I have used Linux for a couple of years (this was 3 or 4 years ago). Working with it was hard due to device installation trouble and limited software range, I was willing to pay cash for Windows because it allowed me to use the software that I need. Right now, my work is tight, and when it becomes a bit flexible, I plan to try out Linux and hopefully, Mac too to get myself uptodate on their capabilities. When my friends and relatives ask for advice, I try to steer them clear of piracy and educate them on free alternatives (rarely, they go for Linux, usually, it is free Windows apps).
Just one final question - are you for or against digital Intellectual Property (forget DRM for this question)? IP refers to a creation of the intellect that has commercial value, including copyrighted property such as literary or artistic works, and ideational property, such as patents, appellations of origin, business methods, and industrial processes... The digital rights mechanism attempts to ensure that the digital media are distributed as dictated by the owner. Forgetting the current implementations, do you believe that the digital media should be distributed as dictated by the owner or do you think that the user can do what he wants with it after he pirates or purchases a copy of the digital media?
Arun
din
Tribal Boy
@iMav I guess you meant 'Welcome Back' 
right ?
I was here before also, but then things were bit different. Those were the days with (yes, the 'once upon a time' style lol) Aadipa, Freestyler, Dexter, Sunny, Vinay, Grudge, Nemi, Deep, GX, QwertyManiac, Santhosh, Jeba, Sr-Ultimate, Medpal, Pallu, Infra-red-dude and a lot of people.
We had similar discussions, fights, heated up discussions. But the main difference was, majority of replies were related to the topic title, almost all were doing constructive criticism. Some of us had different opinion about other members, some just hated some others. But none of these reflected in the forum discussion. Most were quality posts.
Then there were no sub categories, all were under general Discussion. And people were not caring much on the post counts. People posted replies only if they really really think their post will someway help others, like posting something useful, related to topic or something new.
Now after going through this thread, I couldn't find much replies that is related to the thread title. May be I am wrong, as I am not too-technical, forgive me, but I failed to find how these are related to the topic
1. User friendliness of OS
2. Personal attacks - like (Keep quiet you din, you do not know anything, just listen what I tell - lol, nobody posted this, but you can see similar posts)
3. DRM - I have no clue what is this, I will use google lol
4. Piracy - well somewhat related to security, I agree
5. Movie / channels in PC
6. Digital Millenium Copyright act
It is not uncommon discussion gettin diverted but nobody is trying to bring it back to the topic and stick to it. That is the reason I posted in this thread, knowing my posts are also off-topic
Finally, again and again - I am not into OS war. People will use the Os they like. Simple. For me, I work in LAMP. All my / clients servers are OS / Linux. But at home / office all my PCs run in Win XP / 2000 and majority of softwares I use work in Win. If that is not enough, my major client whos in France use Mac in his office and want me to make sure everything I make works perfectly in Mac.
How can I support only one OS ? LOL
Well, I think we can come back to the point, whether Vista is the most secure OS, if so, then points or proof supportin it, if not, which Os is most secure, again proof, like that.
Now, don't you think thats the right way ?
right ?I was here before also, but then things were bit different. Those were the days with (yes, the 'once upon a time' style lol) Aadipa, Freestyler, Dexter, Sunny, Vinay, Grudge, Nemi, Deep, GX, QwertyManiac, Santhosh, Jeba, Sr-Ultimate, Medpal, Pallu, Infra-red-dude and a lot of people.
We had similar discussions, fights, heated up discussions. But the main difference was, majority of replies were related to the topic title, almost all were doing constructive criticism. Some of us had different opinion about other members, some just hated some others. But none of these reflected in the forum discussion. Most were quality posts.
Then there were no sub categories, all were under general Discussion. And people were not caring much on the post counts. People posted replies only if they really really think their post will someway help others, like posting something useful, related to topic or something new.
Now after going through this thread, I couldn't find much replies that is related to the thread title. May be I am wrong, as I am not too-technical, forgive me, but I failed to find how these are related to the topic
1. User friendliness of OS
2. Personal attacks - like (Keep quiet you din, you do not know anything, just listen what I tell - lol, nobody posted this, but you can see similar posts)
3. DRM - I have no clue what is this, I will use google lol
4. Piracy - well somewhat related to security, I agree
5. Movie / channels in PC
6. Digital Millenium Copyright act
It is not uncommon discussion gettin diverted but nobody is trying to bring it back to the topic and stick to it. That is the reason I posted in this thread, knowing my posts are also off-topic
Finally, again and again - I am not into OS war. People will use the Os they like. Simple. For me, I work in LAMP. All my / clients servers are OS / Linux. But at home / office all my PCs run in Win XP / 2000 and majority of softwares I use work in Win. If that is not enough, my major client whos in France use Mac in his office and want me to make sure everything I make works perfectly in Mac.
How can I support only one OS ? LOL
Well, I think we can come back to the point, whether Vista is the most secure OS, if so, then points or proof supportin it, if not, which Os is most secure, again proof, like that.
Now, don't you think thats the right way ?
Last edited:
iMav
The Devil's Advocate
offtopic:
@din the thing is that for a long time mac boys had been boasting about their OS on this forum and bashed windows same is the case with Linux users, they keep hi-jacking threads remotely related to windows and then start bashing MS and windows to which some members took notice and decided to reveal some facts as a result a lot of shortcomings in the os x were revealed which hurt the feelings of the mac boys as all this time being on thinkdigit they had been trumpetting about os x similarly the linux boys (theirs was only about drm drm drm drm) now this confrontation is spread all over this forum in almost every thread where something new from MS is reported
and most of the time discussions are not actually diverted as they are continuation of the other threads ....
the problem here is all we windows users say is dont proclaim ur OS as the 'best' if does what u want it to use it but dont act like a salesman who is not ready to accept a drawback and will keep on bashing the other product for no rhyme or reason something which prakash has been doing drm drm drm drm drm ... i re-iterate if yash raj decided to launch drm locked media then its MS fault coz their OS can play drm locked media
i would like if members stop using the superlative degree as it would reduce a lot of mis-conceptions
@din the thing is that for a long time mac boys had been boasting about their OS on this forum and bashed windows same is the case with Linux users, they keep hi-jacking threads remotely related to windows and then start bashing MS and windows to which some members took notice and decided to reveal some facts as a result a lot of shortcomings in the os x were revealed which hurt the feelings of the mac boys as all this time being on thinkdigit they had been trumpetting about os x similarly the linux boys (theirs was only about drm drm drm drm) now this confrontation is spread all over this forum in almost every thread where something new from MS is reported
and most of the time discussions are not actually diverted as they are continuation of the other threads ....
the problem here is all we windows users say is dont proclaim ur OS as the 'best' if does what u want it to use it but dont act like a salesman who is not ready to accept a drawback and will keep on bashing the other product for no rhyme or reason something which prakash has been doing drm drm drm drm drm ... i re-iterate if yash raj decided to launch drm locked media then its MS fault coz their OS can play drm locked media
i would like if members stop using the superlative degree as it would reduce a lot of mis-conceptions
Last edited:
infra_red_dude
Wire muncher!
din said:
sigh! yes... those were the dayz!
golden dayz! but many of us are still here.i did post into this thread, but as soon as it got deviated (wid stuff remotely conncted to this topic like drm, mce, this that and what not...) i stopped posting. it will only add more irrelevance to the topic as one post is countered by the other and the chain continues. the main topic loses focus. but can't help it. in every thread its the same thing.
things like "my OS is best" is giving way to statements like "your OS is the worst!" yes, its happening everywhere. theres no constructive critisism anywhere. people here behave as if they own these companies. a debate is useless if both sides fail to see their weak points and the opponents strong points. folks around work as if its their duties to find flaws in other OS, like macboys doing nothing but finding flaws in windows, winboys doing the same for mac and linux and finally linuxboys yet doing the same for windows.
i do not take any side coz i use both linux and windows heavily. i kno the pros and cons of both the OSs in the context of my usage. i've used the macos very very sparingly. since i dun haf apple hardware i'm not bothered abt it much.
i'd say only this: (plz dun consider them as personal attacks)
macboys: forget windows if u think its bad. u haf apple hardware anyways. run macos and be happy.
winboys: forget macos. u dun haf apple hardware anyways.
linux boys: forget drm. use a 3rd party app and stop crying.
use whatever u like, but dun hijack and kill each and every thread in this forum. it will lead to nowhere. this applies to everyone.
sorry for my offtopic post. but cudn't help posting this.
Zeeshan Quireshi
C# Be Sharp !
"Use whatever you want , just don't rant about your produtct being the best"iMav said:the problem here is all we windows users say is dont proclaim ur OS as the 'best' if does what u want it to use it but dont act like a salesman who is not ready to accept a drawback and will keep on bashing the other product for no rhyme or reason something which prakash has been doing drm drm drm drm drm ... i re-iterate if yash raj decided to launch drm locked media then its MS fault coz their OS can play drm locked media
kumarmohit
Technomancer
din said:
I do not understand why the hell are we Indians bothered about DMCA, an American Law applicable in USA.
so if that way ur logic works,then we dont have DRM installed in M$ Vista India Edition?is that something like that?the worst thing M$ brought to OS arena is DRM incorporated to their Vista OS 
iMav
The Devil's Advocate
what non-sense are u saying man ... are u dumb or something ... yash raj decided to release its work on drm protected media then why are u blaming MS coz its OS is able to support drm media and ur OSS doesnt
and besides the link that u gave see the cover image u will see that the drm protected version is for countries other than india ... read and see for urself the links u give then post here
curse amd also they have decided to launch a mobo series which will drm at chip level ...
and besides the link that u gave see the cover image u will see that the drm protected version is for countries other than india ... read and see for urself the links u give then post here
curse amd also they have decided to launch a mobo series which will drm at chip level ...
kumarmohit
Technomancer
gx_saurav said:
praka123 said:
Oh No No No, why do you guyz tend to confuse - DRM which is Digital Rights Management- a technology with DMCA - Digital Millenium Copyright Act - a Law.
DMCA is much much wider than DRM.
DRM has come to India and we will have to kick it out.
DMCA is a Law, It cannot come to India unless we become the 51st US state (Impossible) or US invades and colonises India thus making US law imposed in India (extremly unlikely)
Zeeshan Quireshi
C# Be Sharp !
Anyway , Audio CD's will always be available and rippers will rip them , DRM or NO DRMkumarmohit said:
Sukhdeep Singh
Host4Cheap.org
Sorry for acing n00b but praka123 can you please tell me what exactly in DRM bothers you. I mean what kind of privacy it breaches ? Please tell me in your own words and dont link me to Blogs and stuff. Thanks
praka123
left this forum longback
@sukhdeepsinghkohli:First of All I'm not a n00b here,the thing is my id is changed by admin as requested
As of DRM's side-effects, sure knows it is a malware which intrudes your privacy.How? becoz with closed source Vista with DRM,You dont know what can be collected by malwares,spywares in Windows series of OS;right?
DRM even in hardware for eg: DVD(HD,blu-ray) players in future will bundle this if no user intervention comes stopping this been enforced in western countries as it is for sure India will follow suite.
You cannot be so sure,about any OS or hardware,let it be your favourite too be not harming you,unless its specs and code are open and verified.
playing HD_DVDs and blurays are not the end of the storage experiance.there are already other attempts which tries to get with par,without DRM menace-for eg:China's alternate DVD format.
there are DRM-exploits(wmp?) which hampers user experiance too.
Digital Restriction Management as of now is clearly intruding fair use rights.the future with this sort of technologies pressurred on Users will be a biggest disaster .the worst case is Windows Vista which carries DRM lock for ur music.DRM is not a "Technological advantage"-it is like for eg:as u may be knowing jasiya forced on other religions.at the end of all this the user will be just "leasing" his Vista OS(ever read complete EULA) and for DRM Music,You are not allowed to keep a backup of ur copy of music again as DRM mechanism stops you from doing this.for a rational mind,this makes DRM a crippleware,malware.even more than this,a success for DRM enforcement means future laws will make it terrible for anything other than proprietory companies to cop up with a music market where each and every music files are "copyrighted" with terrible measures as this.
in future anything even from DRMed Hardware(afaik AMD is developing this!),Software will not be allowed by these authorities.
what will be implemented in US/Europe will be follow suit by most countries in the context of technologies and laws.
As a corporate selling both pirated and genuine copy of windows vista os with DRM,Microsoft did the wrong for its users world over.they forced DRM with Vista.it is not forced on M$ by RIAA.they can sure let Vista comeout without DRM.but they in future want to compete everywhere spreading DRM too in the cause.even more as a closed source OS,believe it or not,Vista DRM implementation sure may have its set of flaws(in security,privacy) which will be revealed with time.DRM in Vista means each and everything you are doing can be possibly traced and logged.
Another aspect i notice is,that when Vista and may be MAC too get DRM incorporated,what will be the future of Free Software or Open SOurce Operating systems,for eg: GNU/Linux?cant it be just that we dont have the right to not to choose DRM and cop up with newer technologies,in that case i will say the clear Agenda of DRM is to kill its users fair usage rights and EULA's been enforced on them.
Cant it be that all OS needs to be Open SOurced be a law?do u feel raged?=the same thing is DRM forced on media.and every rights are there for a person who uses OSS too have teh power to access media at any format.
As an OS,I am not against Windows,but against Vista+DRM that is. let veteran users too knows the DRM menace.
As of DRM's side-effects, sure knows it is a malware which intrudes your privacy.How? becoz with closed source Vista with DRM,You dont know what can be collected by malwares,spywares in Windows series of OS;right?
DRM even in hardware for eg: DVD(HD,blu-ray) players in future will bundle this if no user intervention comes stopping this been enforced in western countries as it is for sure India will follow suite.
You cannot be so sure,about any OS or hardware,let it be your favourite too be not harming you,unless its specs and code are open and verified.
playing HD_DVDs and blurays are not the end of the storage experiance.there are already other attempts which tries to get with par,without DRM menace-for eg:China's alternate DVD format.
there are DRM-exploits(wmp?) which hampers user experiance too.
Digital Restriction Management as of now is clearly intruding fair use rights.the future with this sort of technologies pressurred on Users will be a biggest disaster .the worst case is Windows Vista which carries DRM lock for ur music.DRM is not a "Technological advantage"-it is like for eg:as u may be knowing jasiya forced on other religions.at the end of all this the user will be just "leasing" his Vista OS(ever read complete EULA) and for DRM Music,You are not allowed to keep a backup of ur copy of music again as DRM mechanism stops you from doing this.for a rational mind,this makes DRM a crippleware,malware.even more than this,a success for DRM enforcement means future laws will make it terrible for anything other than proprietory companies to cop up with a music market where each and every music files are "copyrighted" with terrible measures as this.
in future anything even from DRMed Hardware(afaik AMD is developing this!),Software will not be allowed by these authorities.
what will be implemented in US/Europe will be follow suit by most countries in the context of technologies and laws.
As a corporate selling both pirated and genuine copy of windows vista os with DRM,Microsoft did the wrong for its users world over.they forced DRM with Vista.it is not forced on M$ by RIAA.they can sure let Vista comeout without DRM.but they in future want to compete everywhere spreading DRM too in the cause.even more as a closed source OS,believe it or not,Vista DRM implementation sure may have its set of flaws(in security,privacy) which will be revealed with time.DRM in Vista means each and everything you are doing can be possibly traced and logged.
Another aspect i notice is,that when Vista and may be MAC too get DRM incorporated,what will be the future of Free Software or Open SOurce Operating systems,for eg: GNU/Linux?cant it be just that we dont have the right to not to choose DRM and cop up with newer technologies,in that case i will say the clear Agenda of DRM is to kill its users fair usage rights and EULA's been enforced on them.
Cant it be that all OS needs to be Open SOurced be a law?do u feel raged?=the same thing is DRM forced on media.and every rights are there for a person who uses OSS too have teh power to access media at any format.
As an OS,I am not against Windows,but against Vista+DRM that is. let veteran users too knows the DRM menace.
Last edited:
- Status