The ultimate shootout: Apple Mac OS X vs. Microsoft Windows Vista

[eddie]

WTF
do ya even know wat ur taking bout??dou know the diff between pagefile and virtual memory??first know it and then come out and post,else count stars in the sky.

Man...Windows does make your brain cells loose. Isn't it? You funny guy...tell me where it is written that Pagefile is needed by CPU and System schedulers? Tell me where it is written that Pagefile is needed to store memory addresses even if you have free RAM? Do you even know where all these things are stored or did you just learn some big names and vomited in front of us? Also don't you read what you quote?

This is a method of extending the available physical memory on a computer.

Don't you understand what is the meaning of extension? Your bluff has been called off...your bubble is burst...now go back in the cave you came from. I still can't stop laughing though. Pagefile is required by CPU and system schedulers. *us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/emoticons7/24.gif Some of you Windows guys make really funny jokes!

now u guys r being stubborn and not accepting the fact that Vista runs fine on 1GB ram.

Yeah we are being stubborn!!! BTW for your information...we can see your signature...2*1GB DDR2 667

 

[aryayush]

Since you brought up his signature, I have a humble request, please stop insulting the poor Mac OS X by forcing it to sit there next to Vista.

@assasin,
Dude, you seriously chose the wrong people to indulge with. People like kalpik and eddie know their stuff. And this may be a bit blunt but well, you don't.

 

[gxsaurav]

(1) I do not save the links of digg submissions I come across so that I can show them to someone later.

Do not talk about something if you cannot prove it.

(2) You are not important enough to me anyway.

That I can see here, that despite of saying "I m out of here" you are back

(3) Use Google (if you know how to). If you don't find it, I can quote Tobey Maguire here: "I missed the part where that is my problem."

Google, then why do we need forums for help.?

(1) You are using it illegally on officially unsupported hardware.

:Yawn , next......(jealousy that I did not paid 1.5lakh for it )

(

2) You do not know how to multi-task anyway, being used to Windows' interface (the biggest and most prominent example is that you prefer 'Alt + Tab' to Exposé and cannot work with several windows at once, which is what the Mac interface encourages)

Hmm...multitasking, does that includes running 3Ds Max with genetica & Photoshop CS3, chating in Yahoo Messenger while posting here in Firefox & using utorrent to download Heroes along with WMP11 for music & Ad muncher & Yahoo Wigets in the background & copying songs to my phone vis windows explorer.? Umm....total 23 Windows open right now.....all using statc alt+tab or alt+Tab & clicking on that window thumbnail.

(3) Anand uses a Mac Mini with 512 MB of RAM. AFAIK (and he has told me this), the operating system runs fine and he uses fifteen applications at once.

So, 15 windows....what are you trying to prove that on Mac you can open more application then Windows? Grow up boy & do some research on how memory management of an OS works....ever heard of superfetch & prefetch in Vista. The apps which you "see" on screen is in the system RAM, & which you don't goes in swap file.

Of course, if you insist on using Photoshop or FCP with 512 MB of RAM, you do not know anything about how computers work (which you do not anyway, so it hardly comes as a surprise).

Only little jealous & frustrated kids try to downplay others showing there stupidity

(4) How can I be sure the biggest liar on this forum is not lying right now!

Don't be sure, you are not that important anyway. The truth is important which is being revealed here on the forum.

By the way, Vista without Aero is Windows XP.

Vista Without Aero = Windows XP + Live search + DirectX 10 + OpenAL + Superfetch + WIA + Windows Preview + Windows Mobility centre + Windows Ink engine (Tablet PC component)...etc etc etc

(1) If you had posted this statement on digg, you would have been buried as lame faster than you can spell your name (which, given your knowledge of English, must take you considerable amount of time anyway).

Someone doesn't have anything valid & to the point to speak of

(2) Then again, maybe it is a spectacular achievement that Vista had ten whole well designed applications in four months of its release (the APIs were released a lot earlier, I guess).

In beta yes, but that is just for developing priliminary applications engine cos .net 3.0 was not final till novembar 30 2006. We can't be sure, who knows maybe the whole old .net 3.0 codebase was scrapped when Vista was send to RTM

Oh, and where are the ten applications? I know only Office, Windows Live Messenger and Yahoo! Widgets (which does not look even half as good as Dashboard does).

Obviously it won't, cos you don't know how to mod or customize your OS. You like to use it at default state.

That's three applications. Even if you can mention twenty more names, that is still very lame for an operating system that is considered the standard as far as operating systems go.

The OS was released to public 4 months ago & requirs compleately new app UI to be made in .net 3.0, I hope you know that developing an application to run on millions of computer configuration takes time.

As for Nero, I have met many people who think it has a good interface. Almost everyone I know uses Nero and most people give the reason that it has a good interface. If any of them saw Roxio Toast, they would change their minds as quickly as Windows XP used to crash (but Vista doesn't). You won't. You will think Toast has a crap interface because in "gx_saurav speak":
Good = Bad
Bad = Good.

I wonder who those "many" people are. You next door neighbours who u don't help in anything computer?

Oh I forgot, I don't believe you that people told you that Nero has a good interface

I m not using Toast, 130 MB for Toast titanium 8...wow & I thought nero was bloat.

Oh, and what it ugly about it! It is supposed to do one thing, let you type text without giving you any confusing choices and buttons. It does that. It is perfect and it looks better than both Notepad and Wordpad. (Why does Windows have two applications by default for basically the same purpose! )

Boy seriously...if you call that non-ugly....then plz for Adobe's sake do not work on Photoshop anymore

You purposely gave the text a garish pink background to give it an ugly look. It is hardly the application's fault that you have such a ridiculously bad choice of colours.

The old macboy philosophy, if it is not praising Mac "It is ****ing biased review"

WOW! A bigger idiot than gx_saurav!!

Reported 6th post in this thread. Where are the admins? or are the reports getting hijacked by the mods.

I used to run Vista and Ubuntu on virtual machines on top of Mac OS X (with 512 megabytes of RAM alloted to each OS) on my MacBook Pro. I also used Photoshop in the meanwhile and regular Internet browsing. I never shut down my Mac so it used to stay in this state for days and it used to run smoothly for the most part. Yes, there was a bit of a jerkiness here and there in some of the animations (specially of Front Row which is currently beta software) but it performed absolutely fine.

Together at one time? You got 2 GB RAM right, so what are you trying to prove here? Even Windows has been doing this since ages with 2 GB RAM.

i STILL have ~300MB free ram left and used swap is just 33 MB.

Kalpik, thats the difference between Linux & Vista's memory management. Vista doesn't leaves out free RAM anymore. It caches everything it can & when some application asks for RAM it flushes the cache. Also knows as superfetch.

*img462.imageshack.us/img462/8264/tasklj9.jpg

Now, how can I have 15 MB Memory free (Task manager) as well as 400+ MB Memory free (RAM Monitor) both together.

Dude, you seriously chose the wrong people to indulge with. People like kalpik and eddie know their stuff. And this may be a bit blunt but well, you don't.

Kalpik...yes
Eddie ...Questionable.

They both know nothing about how Windows works.

Good night.

 

[kalpik]

^^ GX, the thing you are talking about.. Vista using RAM as cache, linux has been doing that since AGES! And i DO know quite a bit about windows too.. (Ive spent more time on windows than on linux). Also, when i said that i have 300 MB free ram, i mean it in the same sense as RAM monitor is showing you on Vista. So that 300 MB is used for cache, but it can be readily made available to other applications.

So effectively, you have 400 MB free with just vista running (i cant see any applications open either) and i have 300 MB free with 2 OSs running

 

[gxsaurav]

^^ GX, the thing you are talking about.. Vista using RAM as cache, linux has been doing that since AGES! And i DO know quite a bit about windows too.. (Ive spent more time on windows than on linux). Also, when i said that i have 300 MB free ram, i mean it in the same sense as RAM monitor is showing you on Vista. So that 300 MB is used for cache, but it can be readily made available to other applications.

Yup, then why are we arguing? We are both saying the same thing that Vista manages RAM much more efficiently then any previous version of Windows.

 

[kalpik]

I'm not arguing, I agree Vista has improved a LOT on the memory management front, i was just proving that assassin was wrong about what he was saying about the page file
Though Vista has improved on memory management, but still that doesn't stop me from calling it a resource hog.

 

[gxsaurav]

The screenshot Zeeshan posted was for Word 2007 on Windows XP, where blue matches.....but black rox on Vista.

*img371.imageshack.us/img371/6908/wordwp8.th.jpg

I'm not arguing, I agree Vista has improved a LOT on the memory management front, i was just proving that assassin was wrong about what he was saying about the page file
Though Vista has improved on memory management, but still that doesn't stop me from calling it a resource hog.

Here is how pagefile on Windows works

You have several application open on you computer. Now All of them are running together but at any given time you are working or better said looking at one application only. That application Window is on top. At this point, all those apps which are either minimised, or running in background like utorrent or Ad muncher goes into page file, reason...cos they don't need to be in system RAM for them to work. They can run directly from the pagefile cos they are running in background.

The best example is to start utorrent & start playing a game. Now minimize the game using alt+TAb or Pressing the Windows Key on keyboard. Start task manager & look yourself that utorrent is eating only 1 MB RAM while all the RAM usage is in Page file. (Example).

If something is not on screen, it doesn't need to stay in system RAM. If it is called upon, it comes back from pagefile to system RAM or runs directly from page file depending on the application cos page file is nothing but virtual RAM emulated by an OS.

 

[assasin]

tell me where it is written that Pagefile is needed by CPU and System schedulers?

The mid-term scheduler, present in all systems with virtual memory(pagefile), temporarily removes processes from main memory and places them on secondary memory (such as a disk drive) or vice versa. This is commonly referred to as "swapping out" or "swapping in" (also incorrectly as "paging out" or "paging in"). The mid-term scheduler may decide to swap out a process which has not been active for some time, or a process which has a low priority, or a process which is page faulting frequently, or a process which is taking up a large amount of memory in order to free up main memory for other processes, swapping the process back in later when more memory is available, or when the process has been unblocked and is no longer waiting for a resource. [Stallings, 396] [Stallings, 370]
In many systems today (those that support mapping virtual address space to secondary storage other than the swap file), the mid-term scheduler may actually perform the role of the long-term scheduler, by treating binaries as "swapped out processes" upon their execution. In this way, when a segment of the binary is required it can be swapped in on demand, or "lazy loaded". [Stallings, 394]

the page no. of the book from which i hav sourced this article is given in brackets,so that u can verify it.

i hav 2GB ram cuz i need it for playing all the latest games and not for running Vista.

 

[eddie]

the page no. of the book from which i hav sourced this article is given in brackets,so that u can verify it.

You have sourced the article from the book?

Anyways...you should really read that part you just wrote and understand. It should now be clear to you that the Pagefile is used when main memory needs to be freed. It is a known fact that schedulers don't depend on Pagefile or swap file for their functioning. It is a part of their job...but not a dependency. A scheduler will work fine irrespective of whether you have a Pagefile on your system or not. The sole reason behind Pagefile's existence is to extend your main memory (RAM) and give you a temporary space to keep some unneeded files and processes.

 

[assasin]

You have sourced the article from the book?

Anyways...you should really read that part you just wrote and understand. It should now be clear to you that the Pagefile is used when main memory needs to be freed. It is a known fact that schedulers don't depend on Pagefile or swap file for their functioning. It is a part of their job...but not a dependency. A scheduler will work fine irrespective of whether you have a Pagefile on your system or not. The sole reason behind Pagefile's existence is to extend your main memory (RAM) and give you a temporary space to keep some unneeded files and processes.

Yeah i sourced it from that book so that no one wud be able to implicate later that i've written some rubbish.

the purpose of the midterm scheduler is to swap process to and from the page file.most pcs dont hav that much system ram as wud be reqd by the level of multitasking been done these days.so if ur system doesnt hav page file the result will be an system whose multitasking abilities will be limited only by the amt of system mem available.
as far as dependency of schedular on pagefile is concerned,carefully understand wat the mid term schedular is there in the system for.

 

[iMav]

hey guys dont hi-jack this thread x)

1 ood thing about safari:

pdf also open by default (though ie 7 opens xps)

 

[gxsaurav]

PDF also open by default in IE 7 with Adobe reader installed. I just opened a 80 MB 3Ds Max 9 Bible in preview.....& the window went out of screen . I installed Adobe reader on Mac too,

iMav, thanx for the DVD & CD

So effectively, you have 400 MB free with just vista running (i cant see any applications open either) and i have 300 MB free with 2 OSs running

I just cut the relevent part of screenshot to post here

 

[aryayush]

Reported 6th post in this thread. Where are the admins? or are the reports getting hijacked by the mods.

Just because you keep reporting my posts and I don't yours does not mean the moderators cannot read what all you are typing. If you cannot take a little heat, why bother posting in the 'Fight Club', huh?

"Only the thick-skinned should enter."

Vista doesn't leaves out free RAM anymore. It caches everything it can & when some application asks for RAM it flushes the cache. Also knows as superfetch.

Something Mac OS X has been doing since 2001 and the reason why it is said that Mac OS X has better memory management. But, of course, you used to think it was crap until Microsoft came along, copied the feature and incorporated it into their operating system. Suddenly, this is pure gold. We are all well aware of this long standing whatever-MS-does-is-the-best-way-to-do-stuff attitude.

i DO know quite a bit about windows too.. (Ive spent more time on windows than on linux)

Whoever disagrees with gx_saurav and/or criticises Windows in any manner does not know anything about Windows. I thought at least you would know how things work here, kalpik. Shame, you've let me down...

 

[gxsaurav]

Something Mac OS X has been doing since 2001 and the reason why it is said that Mac OS X has better memory management. But, of course, you used to think it was crap until Microsoft came along, copied the feature and incorporated it into their operating system. Suddenly, this is pure gold. We are all well aware of this long standing whatever-MS-does-is-the-best-way-to-do-stuff attitude.

Yup, something MacOS X has been doing since 2001 thanx to its copied BSD Kernel taken from UNIX which has been doing this since ages. Damn you Microsoft, you had to make your own kernel & own memory management engine.

Whoever disagrees with gx_saurav and/or criticises Windows in any manner does not know anything about Windows. I thought at least you would know how things work here, kalpik. Shame, you've let me down...

Nope, actually this is your philosohy that "Apple can't be bad"

 

[aryayush]

I installed Adobe reader on Mac too,

Yeah, you have a pretty bad, "Windows-ish" habit of installing crap onto the OS and then blaming the operating system. Pray tell me, what was the big need for Adobe Reader when there is absolute and full-fledged support for PDFs throughout the operating system?!

 

[iMav]

Whoever disagrees with gx_saurav and/or criticises Windows in any manner does not know anything about Windows. I thought at least you would know how things work here, kalpik. Shame, you've let me down...

every1 on this forum knows to whom this applies ... and yes its not gx and no prizes for guessing ... every1 knows the answer including u

 

[gxsaurav]

Yeah, you have a pretty bad, "Windows-ish" habit of installing crap onto the OS and then blaming the operating system. Pray tell me, what was the big need for Adobe Reader when there is absolute and full-fledged support for PDFs throughout the operating system?!

Simple, Preview hardly gives me features enough compared to Adobe Reader & it got very slow when i open that 3ds max bible pdf consisting of 600 pages. The pages are all not portrait so the Window needed to be re-zomed for every page else the page would not fit in it.

I installed adobe reader, zoomer the Windows to max using manual mouse method & it worked fine & gave me proper layout.

Preview is more like Windows Photo gallery preview. Just made for preview not for doing full fledged tasks.

 

[fortebuster]

Well, I haven't read through the whole of the thread but...


Macs Suck.

 

[gxsaurav]

Mac & Apple product do not suck. They are some of the most beautifully designed hardware.

What sux is that they charge 4 times then what they should, Apple won't let us run MacOS X on the computer of our choice, neither will it let us upgrade the hardware of Mac ourself & the thing which sux the most is the elite feeling of Macboys when they fail to realize that they are also normal computer users like other OS users such as Linux or Windows.

Nothing makes a Mac special....Macs are good, so are PCs so are toasters, whats the point of Apple down playing all competition acting elite when they themselves are sevearly flawed in the way they work & are one of the biggest copy cats themselves.

if it was about creating innovative hardware like Mac mini or imac G4 then even I would love to praise apple, however when it comes to creating an OS whose foundation (kernel) itself is not made by Apple & is borrowed from BSD then and so many more features, then Apple should be the last company to talk about innovation in software.

 

[kalpik]

They can run directly from the pagefile cos they are running in background.

Umm.. NOTHING, i repeat! NOTHING can run from the pagefile. For anything to "run", it HAS to be loaded into the main memory (RAM). That's why i say an OS that uses less of the pagefile is FAR superior to an OS which uses more of the pagefile. The more of the pagefile you use, the more times you have to load the swapped page into the memory when its needed (AKA context switching), which WASTES a lot of time. Hope you agree on this!