The definitive Xbox discussion thread | Don't troll

[cyborg47]

Might be, but the author in that article has a strong point which cannot be ignored. AMD simply had the expertise in making APU's and SOC's. Since they were capable of providing both a competing cpu and gpu, it was a solid choice. Getting the cpu from intel and a gpu from nvidia will cost more. SOC design saves considerable amount of silicon owing to cost cutting.

Then the HSA foundation model devised by AMD is also proving to be a future acceptable standard. The consoles definitely needed an edge like that. Considering AMD's expertise in all these fields and also from a financial perspective, it was an obvious choice.

I bet the same author would have written an article supporting Sony and MS's decisions, if they went for Nvidia's GPUs. Because, remember Nvidia's response when AMD was announced to be supplying the consoles' GPUs? They clearly stated it was a financial decision, that they weren't happy with what MS or Sony were offering, which obviously means Nvidia was given the offer by the two console manufacturers, but declined because it wasn't a big deal for them, where as AMD was in desperate need for some improvement as a company(check the stocks of both companies), whatever AMD says is all PR talk. So its safe to say that the GPU choice was obviously about money, though I don't mean that AMD's GPUs are bad in anyway, I agree with the article about the better performance of those cards

 

[Extreme Gamer]

I'm really interested in seeing how GCN 2.0 fares against the Kepler rebadge and if finally they get rid of their microstuttering problems. GTX 760 SLI @~Canadian $550 is really tempting...:nod:

If it is very good, then in all likelihood the GT740 equivalent that Nvidia would have offered could have been outperformed by AMD.

 

[vickybat]

I bet the same author would have written an article supporting Sony and MS's decisions, if they went for Nvidia's GPUs. Because, remember Nvidia's response when AMD was announced to be supplying the consoles' GPUs? They clearly stated it was a financial decision, that they weren't happy with what MS or Sony were offering, which obviously means Nvidia was given the offer by the two console manufacturers, but declined because it wasn't a big deal for them, where as AMD was in desperate need for some improvement as a company(check the stocks of both companies), whatever AMD says is all PR talk. So its safe to say that the GPU choice was obviously about money, though I don't mean that AMD's GPUs are bad in anyway, I agree with the article about the better performance of those cards

Well i'm not saying Nvidia is incapable or something ( I'm a big Nvidia Fanboy ). They have the technology and financial decisions would have definitely played a part, as a reason of them pulling out. Actually Nvidia's future plans are pretty strong and involve SOC's almost for all platforms (servers,desktops, smartphones and supercomputers)- Project Denver - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
They are the only architectural licensee of ARM after Qualcomm, and thus are allowed to create their own ARM designs. Something like that can easily power a game console. But Sony and M$ couldn't wait as 64 bit ARM cpu's were a while away and are the ones from ARM stables, that could have competed against jaguar cpu's toe to toe.

The upcoming Maxwell Gpu's is going to be a Heterogeneous design sporting custom ARM 64bit cores along with Maxwell gpu (simd) cores. So the technology was there.

Money could have been a big factor here and AMD took the much needed chance.

DirectX 11.2 Revealed – Available Only On Windows 8.1 & Xbox One [UPDATE]

Well, we all saw that coming. In an attempt to promote its latest OS, Microsoft has officially revealed the new version of its DX API. And as you may have guessed, it is coming exclusively on Windows 8.1 and Xbox One. DirectX 11.2 was presented at its Build Conference, and you can find the keynotes video below. Perhaps the best feature of DX11.2, Tiled Resources, is demoed at around the first one hour mark. With Tiled Resources, Direct3D 11.2 introduces support for hardware virtual resources, allowing the creation of massive textures using minimal memory, and permitting improved bandwidth efficiency. Let’s see now how PC gamers and developers will respond to Microsoft’s move, and whether the former will be forced to upgrade their systems – yet again – for this DX exclusivity!

 

[heidi2521]

So did Microsoft just spin a downclocked esram based on pure bs? : Games

Interesting...

 

[vickybat]

Xbox One exec says Sony PS4 tech specs are "meaningless", games more important

Microsoft is kind of right here. In the end, the quality of games and their overall theme is what that matters.

 

[cyborg47]

Xbox One exec says Sony PS4 tech specs are "meaningless", games more important

Microsoft is kind of right here. In the end, the quality of games and their overall theme is what that matters.

and then suddenly..these quotes happens somewhere in the article

on top of all the magic we're going to add with the instant switching, and the power of the cloud.

see Call of Duty, it looks f**king awesome! It's going to be great, you know.

Which kinda contradicts what the guy is saying. Its nothing but a PR game, if MS had the better hardware, I'm sure they'd boast about it, just like the " instant switching, and the power of the cloud".
If hardware specs really don't matter, why not stick with the xbox 360? Instead of selling a powerful console that costs 500$

 

[vickybat]

and then suddenly..these quotes happens somewhere in the article





Which kinda contradicts what the guy is saying. Its nothing but a PR game, if MS had the better hardware, I'm sure they'd boast about it, just like the " instant switching, and the power of the cloud".
If hardware specs really don't matter, why not stick with the xbox 360? Instead of selling a powerful console that costs 500$

Yup they would. I guess Don Matrick said that line once, " For all consumers who do not have some form of connectivity, we have a commendable offline gaming device called the xbox 360".

He was widely criticised for those comments, and then the famed 180 U turn. But Microsoft seems to have games this time. They can attract people by those.
Gamescom is going to be interesting.

 

[Extreme Gamer]

As a matter of fact," he continued, "they actually go out and they talk about how proud they are about their off-the-shelf parts. Our guys'll say, we touched every single component in the box and everything there is tweaked for optimum performance.

What's so off-the-shelf on the PS4

Last I remember, the PS4 jaguar chip wont be available in a BGA package to consumers.

 

[vickybat]

What's so off-the-shelf on the PS4

Last I remember, the PS4 jaguar chip wont be available in a BGA package to consumers.

X86 based parts are referred as Off-shelf here. You don't find PowerPc based cpu's selling in retail counter right?

Its not about PS4 chip being offered to consumers. Jaguar chips are available in BGA only.
PS4 chip is custom designed to integrate te extra 4 cores & that massive gpu core along with other functionalities.
Same goes for Xbox-one.

Off-shelf refers to common parts or technology in use.

 

[Extreme Gamer]

X86 based parts are referred as Off-shelf here. You don't find PowerPc based cpu's selling in retail counter right?

Its not about PS4 chip being offered to consumers. Jaguar chips are available in BGA only.
PS4 chip is custom designed to integrate te extra 4 cores & that massive gpu core along with other functionalities.
Same goes for Xbox-one.

Off-shelf refers to common parts or technology in use.

Dude I know. Intel has copyright on LGA, so its unlikely to get LGA processors from other brands.

In that case even M$ is off-the-shelf.

My point was that PS4 parts aren't off the shelf because everything is custom. If PS4 is then so too X1.

 

[vickybat]

Dude I know. Intel has copyright on LGA, so its unlikely to get LGA processors from other brands.

In that case even M$ is off-the-shelf.

My point was that PS4 parts aren't off the shelf because everything is custom. If PS4 is then so too X1.

Who's denying that Microsoft isn't off-shelf?? Of-course it is. Being LGA or BGA has nothing to do here.

PS4 having custom parts has nothing to do whatsoever of using off-shelf parts or not. Using X-86 or more commercial parts gives it the "Off-shelf" monicker.

This will clear your doubts:

Commercial off-the-shelf - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Extreme Gamer]

Who's denying that Microsoft isn't off-shelf?? Of-course it is. Being LGA or BGA has nothing to do here.

PS4 having custom parts has nothing to do whatsoever of using off-shelf parts or not. Using X-86 or more commercial parts gives it the "Off-shelf" monicker.

This will clear your doubts:

Commercial off-the-shelf - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Oh god where is the debate? When did I say LGA or BGA has anything to do with this?

Why are we arguing in agreement lol? I know what off-the-shelf means TYVM.

 

[vickybat]

My point was that PS4 parts aren't off the shelf because everything is custom. If PS4 is then so too X1.

Then what was this for??

 

[Extreme Gamer]

Then what was this for??

Because it isn't COTS. Read the definition you posted.

 

[vickybat]

Because it isn't COTS. Read the definition you posted.

Well its semi custom and not fully custom made. The jaguar cores aren't custom but GPU is.
That does not make them not off-the-shelf. You always have to customize parts in an SOC meant for a special purpose. But the parts used are still off-the shelf, procured from AMD.
Sony or microsoft did not develop them. PS3's cell was the brain child of "Ken Kutaragi". He was responsible for designing of SPE's. So here we can say Sony and Microsoft used off-the-shelf parts and usd a technology that is commercially available.

Use of X86 decides here off-the-shelf or not. Because those jaguar and radeon gpu's are commercially available. Its not niche as powerpc which was inaccessible to general public.

PS4/Xbox One tech spec comparisons 'meaningless', says Microsoft exec

Spoiler

"As a matter of fact, they actually go out and they talk about how proud they are about their off-the-shelf parts. Our guys'll say, we touched every single component in the box and everything there is tweaked for optimum performance," he boasted.

 

[Extreme Gamer]

Well its semi custom and not fully custom made. The jaguar cores aren't custom but GPU is.
That does not make them not off-the-shelf. You always have to customize parts in an SOC meant for a special purpose. But the parts used are still off-the shelf, procured from AMD.
Sony or microsoft did not develop them. PS3's cell was the brain child of "Ken Kutaragi". He was responsible for designing of SPE's. So here we can say Sony and Microsoft used off-the-shelf parts and usd a technology that is commercially available.

Use of X86 decides here off-the-shelf or not. Because those jaguar and radeon gpu's are commercially available. Its not niche as powerpc which was inaccessible to general public.

PS4/Xbox One tech spec comparisons 'meaningless', says Microsoft exec

Nope. X86 doesn't decide off-the-shelfness. The jauguar cores themselves (obviously) won't change in design between retail and Sonly/M$. But the SOC itself is fully custom, because unlike Intel's Core 2 Quad where two dual core modules were slapped together in one package [don't deny it], here the cores are not added on, they are part of the same substrate. And of course, the customized GCN 2.0 chip.

I would like to see a comment from a sony exec saying their parts are off the shelf. Microsoft is calling its parts custom according to your quote. Both companies are using custom units. Neither is using off-the-shelf parts.

While the tech might be off-the-shelf (x86-64 instruction set, jaguar architecture, GCN 2.0 etc), the product used is not.

 

[Cilus]

EG, why are you trolling? As per your defination of custom and off-the-shelf, each and every SOC from different manufacturers like Quacom Snapdragon, Samsung Exynos or nVidia Tegra all are custom made and not off the self product. They are taior made for their purpose but still off the self design as they are made using existing architecture, design philosophy and fabrication process. In fact by your design, even each and every new Generation AMD and Intel new generation Processors are Custom because of the architecture. But no, they are not at all any new thing, they are just iterations or evolution of current available x86 technologies.
XBOX and PS4 both has used components, design philosophy and concepts which are allready in market, the CPU and GPU design, Heterogeneous Computing platform using HUMA and HSA, industry standard GDDR5 memory and memory bus, existing type of storage system etc. Obviously each of them has tailor made the design for its own purpose but that does not make it a complete new design or custom design. Obviously it is a custom chip but still it is based on off-the-self components.

 

[Extreme Gamer]

EG, why are you trolling? As per your defination of custom and off-the-shelf, each and every SOC from different manufacturers like Quacom Snapdragon, Samsung Exynos or nVidia Tegra all are custom made and not off the self product. They are taior made for their purpose but still off the self design as they are made using existing architecture, design philosophy and fabrication process. In fact by your design, even each and every new Generation AMD and Intel new generation Processors are Custom because of the architecture. But no, they are not at all any new thing, they are just iterations or evolution of current available x86 technologies.
XBOX and PS4 both has used components, design philosophy and concepts which are allready in market, the CPU and GPU design, Heterogeneous Computing platform using HUMA and HSA, industry standard GDDR5 memory and memory bus, existing type of storage system etc. Obviously each of them has tailor made the design for its own purpose but that does not make it a complete new design or custom design. Obviously it is a custom chip but still it is based on off-the-self components.

That is not what I'm saying. Since the same identical chip is offered to multiple mobile/handheld vendors, the parts are commercial off the shelf.

In case of the PS4 and X1, the two chips being offered are different from each other and specially designed tailored to each company's needs. Thus not being off-the-shelf.

I'm saying that the SoC is based on off-the-shelf technologies (x86 has been around for ages), but the console SoC itself is not off-the-shelf.

I hope this clarifies it for you. I'll leave at that.

 

[RCuber]

@Extreme Gamer: update first post with all relevant details regarding Xbox One.

 

[Extreme Gamer]

I will do it tomorrow.
____________________________
UPDATE

Thread opening post has updates, still a work in progress. If you find anything missing, please let me know.