narendra modi v/s congress

Will modi be again CM of gujarat

  • yes : I support him to be CM of gujarat again

    Votes: 19 42.2%
  • No : Modi should go

    Votes: 18 40.0%
  • Doesn't matter :Modi wins or Not , who cares ....

    Votes: 8 17.8%

  • Total voters
    45
  • Poll closed .
Status
Not open for further replies.
OP
ssdivisiongermany1933

ssdivisiongermany1933

Still in war with allies
the gujaratis did amazing to clear of pseudo-secular forces from Gujarat ...

and the Rajmata(godmother) sonia gandhi is now in a fix ... congress is dead entity in north india .throwed from Punjab , next it will be delhi
 

x3060

A LOTR fan
well modi won is it . . finally you all can stop fighting till the next election ;-)

by the way , i found a quarrel for "hinduism " . . let me say again , it is not a religion , it is "a way of living". .
get that straight in to head .

it does not say "you must pray to god " or anything , you are free to choose . and i guess peoples now a days have made it a "religion". . thats a shame :-(. the original meaning is lost :-(
 
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mudsir

Broken In
well as it says in the last and final revelation from God that the "only way of life" acceptable in the sight of God is submission of your will to the will of God that is Islam.
 

x3060

A LOTR fan
i dont have any offence to any religion . cause they are ment for the welfare of human kind . but most often they serve for the purpose of destruction :-(. i sometimes wish , there were no religion at all , no gods nothing . half of the wars will be solved instantly .
religion is an evil entity now a days :-(

hell , what did i say ? people stop fighting
we got OS wars , graphic card wars , cpu wars right here :p

i guess everyone got the meaning of that sentence :).
 
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mudsir

Broken In
The 9th German federal election of the Weimar Republic was held on March 5, 1933, and was the last election to be held in Germany before World War II. Because of the success of the Nazi Party in the poll, its leader and Chancellor of Germany, Adolf Hitler, was able to pass the Enabling Act, which effectively gave him the power of a dictator.
 

kumarmohit

Technomancer
^^@ mudsir

That was a general election of entire country and this was state election. Moreover if Modi wud have wanted to do something like this, he wud have already done it when he had more than 120 seats in assembly. Now that he has just 117, it is really doubtful if he wud do anything like this.

Moreover the economic realities of that time were different, there is no great depression in Indian economy, leave alone Gujarat economy. The German judiciary and Indian one are based on two different systems so there is that factor to be considered as well. All you are trying to do is comparing apples with with oranges and in the process undermining the democratic process which is the reason that India is a respected country in the world.



mudsir said:
well as it says in the last and final revelation from God that the "only way of life" acceptable in the sight of God is submission of your will to the will of God that is Islam.

Prove it. Bring me one irrefutable reason why has your Allah fallen silent when people are killing in his name. What kind of a religion it is which teaches people to kill and maim others.

Dude Get Rid of Your Islamic Chauvinism and learn the meaning of being secular. The fact is that all religions are the way to the same God. There is absolutely nothing like a true way or the only way or the true religion or only religion. Al religions are true and all ways are correct.
 
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mudsir

Broken In
kumarmohit said:
Prove it. Bring me one irrefutable reason why has your Allah fallen silent when people are killing in his name. What kind of a religion it is which teaches people to kill and maim others.

YOU have to first prove that where is it written in the religious books of Islam that one has to kill and maim others.

dont be a liar to mislead others.

and dont quote verses out of context.

and dont quote from mahabharata and gita where it is written that one can kill and maim even ones own brothers.
 

kumarmohit

Technomancer
mudsir said:
YOU have to first prove that where is it written in the religious books of Islam that one has to kill and maim others.

dont be a liar to mislead others.
.

Unbridled Hatred toward Jews,
Christians and Infidels



* "Do not take the Jews and Christians for friends" (Surah 5:51)

* "fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness" (Surah 9:123)

* "fight those who do not believe in Allah" (Surah 9:29)

* "and fight them until there is no more persecution and religion should be only for Allah" (Surah 8:39)

* "fight them; Allah will punish them by your hands and bring them to disgrace" (Surah 9:14)

* "Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them" (Surah 9:30)

* "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them" (Surah 8:12)

* Whoever changes his Islamic religion, kill him. (Sahih Al-Bukhari 9:57)

* Slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush. (Koran 9:5)

* Take him and fetter him and expose him to hell fire. (Koran 69:30-37)

* I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers, Smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger tips of them. (Koran 8:12)

* They (the unbelievers) should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides. (Koran 5:33)

* "Know that paradise is under the shades of swords." (Sahih al-Bukhari Vol 4 p55)



Rabid Hatred Toward Jews


* And abasement and humiliation were brought down upon them [The Jews], and they became deserving of Allah's wrath; this was so because they disbelieved in the communications of Allah and killed the prophets unjustly; this was so because they disobeyed and exceeded the limits (Sura 2:61)

* Ignominy shall be their portion [the Jews'] wheresoever they are found... They have incurred anger from their Lord, and wretchedness is laid upon them... because they disbelieve the revelations of Allah and slew the Prophets wrongfully... because they were rebellious and used to transgress. [Surah 111, v. 112]

* They [the Jews] are the heirs of Hell.... They will spare no pains to corrupt you. They desire nothing but your ruin. Their hatred is clear from what they say ... When evil befalls you they rejoice." Ibid. [Surah 111, v. 117-120]

* And thou wilt find them [the Jews] the greediest of mankind....[Surah 11, v. 96]

* Allah hath cursed them [the Jews] for their disbelief. [Surah 4, v. 46]

* They [the Jews] spread evil in the land .... [Surah 5, v. 62-66]

* [The Jews] knowingly perverted [the word of Allah], know of nothing except lies ... commit evil and become engrossed in sin. [Surah 2, v. 71-85]

* And they [the Jews] took riba (interest on loans) though they were forbidden to do so, and they devoured the wealth of mankind wrongfully - We have prepared for those among them who are rejecters of truth, a grievous chastisement." (4:161)



How The Koran Contradicts Itself


The Koran says about itself: "Will they not ponder on the Koran? If it had not come from Allah, they could have surely found in it many contradictions."


Heavens/Earth came together at creation. (Surah 41:11)
---
Heavens/Earth were ripped apart at creation. (Surah 21:30)

Creation took six days. (Surah 7:54, 10:3, 11:7, 25:59)
---
Creation took eight days. (Surah 41:9-12)

Earth created first. (Surah 2:29)
---
Heavens created first. (Surah 70:27-30)

All angels obey Allah. (Surah 16:49-50)
---
Not all angels obey Allah. (Surah 2:34)

Pharaoh drowned. (Surah 17:103, 28:40, 43:55)
---
Pharaoh did not drown. (Surah 10:92)

All of Noah's sons were aboard the ark. (Surah 21:76-77)
---
Not all of Noah's sons were aboard the ark. (Surah 11)

One angel spoke to Mary. (Surah 19:17-21)
---
Several angels spoke to Mary. (Surah 3:42-45)

Paradise has one garden. (Surah 39:73, 41:30, 57:21, 79:41)
---
Paradise has many gardens. (Surah 18:31, 22:23, 35:33, 78:32)

Allah can have a son. (Surah 39:4)
---
Allah can't have a son. (Surah 6:101)

Face Mecca while praying. (Surah 2:115, 144)
---
Face Jerusalem while praying. (Surah 2:115, 144)

If I am a liar then I think whatever is happening in the world is a lie. Why is it that a teacher was given punishment of 100 lashes just becoz she named the bear Mohammed. Or why is it that every once in a while Osama and his goons try to arouse people in the name of Allah and Islam not to mention that people actually act according what he says.
 
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mudsir

Broken In
nice copy and paste job from *www.delusionresistance.org/christian/koranhate.html

seems you agree with the quotes which are all taken out of context by some christians.

shall i post what the christians have written about hinduism and its contradictions and violence.
 

kumarmohit

Technomancer
Yes it is a copy and paste and it is so becoz I do not have time to invent the wheel again. And please do not claim about others talking out of context when you are also doing the same thing.

If they are out of context then please explain the proper context here.

AFAIK Christians might have been involved in verbal chutzpah, (so have been Hindus) but they do not pick up an AK 47 and start indiscriminate firing just becoz of any reason.

And befiore you bring Hitler again and raise the jew issue and become the great jew saviour, consider what is PLO doing.
 

mudsir

Broken In
there are a lot of lies in the copy and paste post of yours.

i cant obviously reply to all of them

that will take many hours of mine.

therefore i advice you to read the quran yourself instead of just reading lies about it.

let me just take the first lie and reply

"Do not take the Jews and Christians for friends" (Surah 5:51)

again out of context

Relations with other people are governed by the basic rule in 5:57 & 60:8-9. The Jews and Christians who cannot be friends are specifically mentioned in 5:57; they are the ones who mock and ridicule the believers, or attack them.

[5:57] O you who believe, do not befriend those among the recipients of previous scripture who mock and ridicule your religion, nor shall you befriend the disbelievers. You shall reverence GOD, if you are really believers.

Basic Law Regulating Relations With Unbelievers

[60:8-9] GOD does not enjoin you from befriending those who do not fight you because of religion, and do not evict you from your homes. You may befriend them and be equitable towards them. GOD loves the equitable. GOD enjoins you only from befriending those who fight you because of religion, evict you from your homes, and band together with others to banish you. You shall not befriend them. Those who befriend them are the transgressors.

[9:123] O you who believe, you shall fight the disbelievers who attack you - let them find you stern - and know that GOD is with the righteous.

[9:29] You shall fight back against those who do not believe in GOD, nor in the Last Day, nor do they prohibit what GOD and His messenger have prohibited, nor do they abide by the religion of truth - among those who received the scripture - until they pay the due tax, willingly or unwillingly.

[8:39] You shall fight them to ward off oppression, and to practice your religion devoted to GOD alone. If they refrain from aggression, then GOD is fully Seer of everything they do.

[9:14] You shall fight them, for GOD will punish them at your hands, humiliate them, grant you victory over them, and cool the chests of the believers.

[9:30] The Jews said, "Ezra is the son of GOD," while the Christians said, "Jesus is the son of GOD!" These are blasphemies uttered by their mouths. They thus match the blasphemies of those who have disbelieved in the past. GOD condemns them. They have surely deviated.

[8:12] Recall that your Lord inspired the angels: "I am with you; so support those who believed. I will throw terror into the hearts of those who disbelieved. You may strike them above the necks, and you may strike even every finger."

A contradiction exists when A says this thing is black while B says this thing is white. The Quran makes it clear that you can engage in warfare providing certain criteria are met:

1) To resist aggression and keep your society free from other peoples intrusions.

2) To defend your life

"[22:39] Permission is granted to those who are being persecuted, since injustice has befallen them, and GOD is certainly able to support them" and
"[22:40] They were evicted from their homes unjustly, for no reason other than saying, "Our Lord is GOD." If it were not for GOD's supporting of some people against others, monasteries, churches, synagogues, and masjids - where the name of GOD is commemorated frequently - would have been destroyed. Absolutely, GOD supports those who support Him. GOD is Powerful, Almighty."

3) To enable a person to follow his own religious beliefs without compulsion.

"[2:256] There shall be no compulsion in religion: the right way is now distinct from the wrong way. Anyone who denounces the devil and believes in GOD has grasped the strongest bond; one that never breaks. GOD is Hearer, Omniscient."

As we can see here the Quran provides a very just and ethical system of war that's way ahead of its time. If you can find a verse that contradicts these principals then your email has merit. There is nothing wrong with fighting with your enemies if they wage war with you. Now compare the Quran's ethics in war to the Bible. Where do you find noble principles like these in the bible? What one finds in the bible is the Israelites fighting to make their enemies extinct. Not just force them to convert to Islam as critics charge!

Numbers 31: And the Lord said unto Moses, "Avenge the children of the Mid'-an'ites.. They warred against the Mid'-i-an'ites, as the Lord commanded Moses, and they slay all the males. And they took all women as captives, and their little ones, and took the spoil of all their cattle, and all their flocks, and all their goods. And they burnt all their cities wherein they dwelt, and all their goodly castles, with fire. Moses said, "HAVE YOU SAVED ALL THE WOMEN ALIVE? NOW KILL EVERY MALE AMONG THE LITTLE ONES, AND KILL EVERY WOMAN that has known a man by lying with him, but all the young girls who have not known a man by lying with him keep alive for yourselves."

[Joshua 6:23,21]Joshua said to the people of Israel, "The Lord has given you the city of the all silver, and gold, and vessels of brass and iron, are consecrated unto the Lord: They shall come into the treasury of the Lord.
The people utterly DESTROYED ALL THAT WAS IN THE CITY, BOTH MAN AND WOMAN,YOUNG AND OLD, AND OX AND SHEEP, AND ASS, WITH THE EDGE OF THE SWORD.

4) No one can be forced to convert or stay in Islam as verse 2:256 advocates. Religion is something you believe in by your own free will. You can't be forced to believe what you don't. The Quran even says to protect Christian and Jewish temples in Muslim lands, even from other muslims:

[22:40] They were evicted from their homes unjustly, for no reason other than saying, "Our Lord is GOD." If it were not for GOD's supporting of some people against others, monasteries, churches, synagogues, and masjids - where the name of GOD is commemorated frequently - would have been destroyed. Absolutely, GOD supports those who support Him. GOD is Powerful, Almighty.

5) Now what does the bible say about people who leave the God of Israel ?

Deuteronomy 17:3-5 "And he should go and worship other gods and bow down to them or to the sun or the moon or all the army of the heavens, .....and you must stone such one with stones and such one must die."

This is what Paul says about the Old Testament's "just" system,
Romans 1:20-32 ....32. "Although they know God's righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them."


Now, let's look at some other verses about befriending the Jews and the Christians, or anyone not Muslim (Submitter) for that matter. These two verses are regulating relations with any people, regardless of faith;

[60:8] GOD does not enjoin you from befriending those who do not fight you because of religion, and do not evict you from your homes. You may befriend them and be equitable towards them. GOD loves the equitable.

[60:9] GOD enjoins you only from befriending those who fight you because of religion, evict you from your homes, and band together with others to banish you. You shall not befriend them. Those who befriend them are the transgressors.

Thus, we learn that we are only enjoined from befriending those who fight us because of religion. Let's go back to the verse immediately after 5:51, to see if it now sheds some more light on the issue.

[5:52] You will see those who harbor doubt in their hearts hasten to join them, saying, "We fear lest we may be defeated." May GOD bring victory, or a command from Him, that causes them to regret their secret thoughts.

Thus, it is clear that this is a situation when there is a division and an overhanging conflict between the believers and the others. Otherwise, what would be the logic behind the statement. "We fear lest we may be defeated."

In these situations those with doubts in their hearts will ally themselves with the enemy.

5:57 makes it clear again, who are not to be taken as friends;

[5:57] O you who believe, do not befriend those among the recipients of previous scripture who mock and ridicule your religion, nor shall you befriend the disbelievers. You shall reverence GOD, if you are really believers.

God teaches us throughout the Quran that there are righteous Jews and Christians. So, if we think we are righteous, and they are righteous, what could possibly be the problem between us, or obstacle for us to be friends?

[7:159] Among the followers of Moses there are those who guide in accordance with the truth, and the truth renders them righteous.

[5:46] Subsequent to them, we sent Jesus, the son of Mary, confirming the previous scripture, the Torah. We gave him the Gospel, containing guidance and light, and confirming the previous scriptures, the Torah, and augmenting its guidance and light, and to enlighten the righteous.

[5:47] The people of the Gospel shall rule in accordance with GOD's revelations therein. Those who do not rule in accordance with GOD's revelations are the wicked.

[2:62 & 5:69] Surely, those who believe, those who are Jewish, the Christians, and the converts; anyone who (1) believes in GOD, and (2) believes in the Last Day, and (3) leads a righteous life, will receive their recompense from their Lord. They have nothing to fear, nor will they grieve.

[3:113-114]. They are not all the same; among the followers of the scripture, there are those who are righteous. They recite GOD's revelations through the night, and they fall prostrate.

They believe in GOD and the Last Day, they advocate righteousness and forbid evil, and they hasten to do righteous works. These are the righteous.

[3:199] Surely, some followers of the previous scriptures do believe in GOD, and in what was revealed to you, and in what was revealed to them. They reverence GOD, and they never trade away GOD's revelations for a cheap price. These will receive their recompense from their Lord. GOD is the most efficient in reckoning.

We learn, however, from the Quran that the Christians are closer to the believers (submitters-Muslims) than the Jews. This is just a statement of fact by God almighty, that we can still witness during our time. God is the best knower of the emotional structure of His creations and therefore was this statement of fact in 5:82. We can witness from the conflict in the Middle East for example , how very emotional the Jews get and how they react to conflicts with their friends, their enemies or even among themselves inside Israel.

[5:82] You will find that the worst enemies of the believers are the Jews and the idol worshipers. And you will find that the closest people in friendship to the believers are those who say, "We are Christian." This is because they have priests and monks among them, and they are not arrogant.

This verse should not be used by any mean to negate the fact that among the Jews (and Christians) will be righteous people who can be good friends as explained in the above verses, they do not fight us in our religion or our homes. They can be our neighbors, colleagues, friends, co-workers...etc We will be good to them as they are good to us. We, all the righteous people of all religions ,can make the difference and make this world better by respecting each other, respecting the freedom of choice of each other, and remember that we all have the One and the same God.
 

mediator

Technomancer
mudsir said:
there are a lot of lies in the copy and paste post of yours.

i cant obviously reply to all of them

that will take many hours of mine.

therefore i advice you to read the quran yourself instead of just reading lies about it.

let me just take the first lie and reply

"Do not take the Jews and Christians for friends" (Surah 5:51)

again out of context

Relations with other people are governed by the basic rule in 5:57 & 60:8-9. The Jews and Christians who cannot be friends are specifically mentioned in 5:57; they are the ones who mock and ridicule the believers, or attack them.

[5:57] O you who believe, do not befriend those among the recipients of previous scripture who mock and ridicule your religion, nor shall you befriend the disbelievers. You shall reverence GOD, if you are really believers.

Basic Law Regulating Relations With Unbelievers

[60:8-9] GOD does not enjoin you from befriending those who do not fight you because of religion, and do not evict you from your homes. You may befriend them and be equitable towards them. GOD loves the equitable. GOD enjoins you only from befriending those who fight you because of religion, evict you from your homes, and band together with others to banish you. You shall not befriend them. Those who befriend them are the transgressors.

[9:123] O you who believe, you shall fight the disbelievers who attack you - let them find you stern - and know that GOD is with the righteous.

[9:29] You shall fight back against those who do not believe in GOD, nor in the Last Day, nor do they prohibit what GOD and His messenger have prohibited, nor do they abide by the religion of truth - among those who received the scripture - until they pay the due tax, willingly or unwillingly.

[8:39] You shall fight them to ward off oppression, and to practice your religion devoted to GOD alone. If they refrain from aggression, then GOD is fully Seer of everything they do.

[9:14] You shall fight them, for GOD will punish them at your hands, humiliate them, grant you victory over them, and cool the chests of the believers.

[9:30] The Jews said, "Ezra is the son of GOD," while the Christians said, "Jesus is the son of GOD!" These are blasphemies uttered by their mouths. They thus match the blasphemies of those who have disbelieved in the past. GOD condemns them. They have surely deviated.

[8:12] Recall that your Lord inspired the angels: "I am with you; so support those who believed. I will throw terror into the hearts of those who disbelieved. You may strike them above the necks, and you may strike even every finger."

A contradiction exists when A says this thing is black while B says this thing is white. The Quran makes it clear that you can engage in warfare providing certain criteria are met:

1) To resist aggression and keep your society free from other peoples intrusions.

2) To defend your life

"[22:39] Permission is granted to those who are being persecuted, since injustice has befallen them, and GOD is certainly able to support them" and
"[22:40] They were evicted from their homes unjustly, for no reason other than saying, "Our Lord is GOD." If it were not for GOD's supporting of some people against others, monasteries, churches, synagogues, and masjids - where the name of GOD is commemorated frequently - would have been destroyed. Absolutely, GOD supports those who support Him. GOD is Powerful, Almighty."

3) To enable a person to follow his own religious beliefs without compulsion.

"[2:256] There shall be no compulsion in religion: the right way is now distinct from the wrong way. Anyone who denounces the devil and believes in GOD has grasped the strongest bond; one that never breaks. GOD is Hearer, Omniscient."

As we can see here the Quran provides a very just and ethical system of war that's way ahead of its time. If you can find a verse that contradicts these principals then your email has merit. There is nothing wrong with fighting with your enemies if they wage war with you. Now compare the Quran's ethics in war to the Bible. Where do you find noble principles like these in the bible? What one finds in the bible is the Israelites fighting to make their enemies extinct. Not just force them to convert to Islam as critics charge!

Numbers 31: And the Lord said unto Moses, "Avenge the children of the Mid'-an'ites.. They warred against the Mid'-i-an'ites, as the Lord commanded Moses, and they slay all the males. And they took all women as captives, and their little ones, and took the spoil of all their cattle, and all their flocks, and all their goods. And they burnt all their cities wherein they dwelt, and all their goodly castles, with fire. Moses said, "HAVE YOU SAVED ALL THE WOMEN ALIVE? NOW KILL EVERY MALE AMONG THE LITTLE ONES, AND KILL EVERY WOMAN that has known a man by lying with him, but all the young girls who have not known a man by lying with him keep alive for yourselves."

[Joshua 6:23,21]Joshua said to the people of Israel, "The Lord has given you the city of the all silver, and gold, and vessels of brass and iron, are consecrated unto the Lord: They shall come into the treasury of the Lord.
The people utterly DESTROYED ALL THAT WAS IN THE CITY, BOTH MAN AND WOMAN,YOUNG AND OLD, AND OX AND SHEEP, AND ASS, WITH THE EDGE OF THE SWORD.

4) No one can be forced to convert or stay in Islam as verse 2:256 advocates. Religion is something you believe in by your own free will. You can't be forced to believe what you don't. The Quran even says to protect Christian and Jewish temples in Muslim lands, even from other muslims:

[22:40] They were evicted from their homes unjustly, for no reason other than saying, "Our Lord is GOD." If it were not for GOD's supporting of some people against others, monasteries, churches, synagogues, and masjids - where the name of GOD is commemorated frequently - would have been destroyed. Absolutely, GOD supports those who support Him. GOD is Powerful, Almighty.

5) Now what does the bible say about people who leave the God of Israel ?

Deuteronomy 17:3-5 "And he should go and worship other gods and bow down to them or to the sun or the moon or all the army of the heavens, .....and you must stone such one with stones and such one must die."

This is what Paul says about the Old Testament's "just" system,
Romans 1:20-32 ....32. "Although they know God's righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them."


Now, let's look at some other verses about befriending the Jews and the Christians, or anyone not Muslim (Submitter) for that matter. These two verses are regulating relations with any people, regardless of faith;

[60:8] GOD does not enjoin you from befriending those who do not fight you because of religion, and do not evict you from your homes. You may befriend them and be equitable towards them. GOD loves the equitable.

[60:9] GOD enjoins you only from befriending those who fight you because of religion, evict you from your homes, and band together with others to banish you. You shall not befriend them. Those who befriend them are the transgressors.

Thus, we learn that we are only enjoined from befriending those who fight us because of religion. Let's go back to the verse immediately after 5:51, to see if it now sheds some more light on the issue.

[5:52] You will see those who harbor doubt in their hearts hasten to join them, saying, "We fear lest we may be defeated." May GOD bring victory, or a command from Him, that causes them to regret their secret thoughts.

Thus, it is clear that this is a situation when there is a division and an overhanging conflict between the believers and the others. Otherwise, what would be the logic behind the statement. "We fear lest we may be defeated."

In these situations those with doubts in their hearts will ally themselves with the enemy.

5:57 makes it clear again, who are not to be taken as friends;

[5:57] O you who believe, do not befriend those among the recipients of previous scripture who mock and ridicule your religion, nor shall you befriend the disbelievers. You shall reverence GOD, if you are really believers.

God teaches us throughout the Quran that there are righteous Jews and Christians. So, if we think we are righteous, and they are righteous, what could possibly be the problem between us, or obstacle for us to be friends?

[7:159] Among the followers of Moses there are those who guide in accordance with the truth, and the truth renders them righteous.

[5:46] Subsequent to them, we sent Jesus, the son of Mary, confirming the previous scripture, the Torah. We gave him the Gospel, containing guidance and light, and confirming the previous scriptures, the Torah, and augmenting its guidance and light, and to enlighten the righteous.

[5:47] The people of the Gospel shall rule in accordance with GOD's revelations therein. Those who do not rule in accordance with GOD's revelations are the wicked.

[2:62 & 5:69] Surely, those who believe, those who are Jewish, the Christians, and the converts; anyone who (1) believes in GOD, and (2) believes in the Last Day, and (3) leads a righteous life, will receive their recompense from their Lord. They have nothing to fear, nor will they grieve.

[3:113-114]. They are not all the same; among the followers of the scripture, there are those who are righteous. They recite GOD's revelations through the night, and they fall prostrate.

They believe in GOD and the Last Day, they advocate righteousness and forbid evil, and they hasten to do righteous works. These are the righteous.

[3:199] Surely, some followers of the previous scriptures do believe in GOD, and in what was revealed to you, and in what was revealed to them. They reverence GOD, and they never trade away GOD's revelations for a cheap price. These will receive their recompense from their Lord. GOD is the most efficient in reckoning.

We learn, however, from the Quran that the Christians are closer to the believers (submitters-Muslims) than the Jews. This is just a statement of fact by God almighty, that we can still witness during our time. God is the best knower of the emotional structure of His creations and therefore was this statement of fact in 5:82. We can witness from the conflict in the Middle East for example , how very emotional the Jews get and how they react to conflicts with their friends, their enemies or even among themselves inside Israel.

[5:82] You will find that the worst enemies of the believers are the Jews and the idol worshipers. And you will find that the closest people in friendship to the believers are those who say, "We are Christian." This is because they have priests and monks among them, and they are not arrogant.

This verse should not be used by any mean to negate the fact that among the Jews (and Christians) will be righteous people who can be good friends as explained in the above verses, they do not fight us in our religion or our homes. They can be our neighbors, colleagues, friends, co-workers...etc We will be good to them as they are good to us. We, all the righteous people of all religions ,can make the difference and make this world better by respecting each other, respecting the freedom of choice of each other, and remember that we all have the One and the same God.
Funny really and what does ur book tell about goats? To kill em becoz we got karnivore teeth? Tell me bt it!
 

apacheman

Journeyman
kumarmohit said:
* Slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush. (Koran 9:5)
These are cheap tactics often used by people like you to prove the Quran wrong. Picking and quoting verses out of context...bah! real dirty!

If you really wanna know the meaning of thise verse then READ THE COMPLETE CHAPTER. i.e. Surah 9.
By the time you come to verse 5, which you quoted, it says in verse 1-5 that there was a treaty between the Muslims and Mushrikuns of Makkah. [Mushrikun means the disbelievers, kaafirs or idolaters; and incase you take offence to the word kaafirs, kaafir in Arabic means one who does not believe in Allah. same as what you call as a Hindu in english. and idolaters means the one who worships idiols.]
The Mushrikun broke the treaty and attacked the Muslims, so it is then that Allah commands them to slay or kill the idolaters.
and just incase you are too blind to continue and read verse 6, in it Allah says : "And if anyone of the Mushrikun seeks your protection then grant him protection and escort him to a place of safety where he can be secure"
well, just quoting blindly and out of context and misleading the facts wont help it. read and understand before you misquote.
and all ur allegations about hatred against jews and christians are as baseless as the one you quoted.

kumarmohit said:
How The Koran Contradicts Itself
The Koran says about itself: "Will they not ponder on the Koran? If it had not come from Allah, they could have surely found in it many contradictions."

Heavens/Earth came together at creation. (Surah 41:11)
---
Heavens/Earth were ripped apart at creation. (Surah 21:30)
and regarding you so called contradictions in the Quran, just one error is enough to prove the Quran wrong.

you just quoted a part of it, i'll give the complete translations.

Surah 41, Verse 11 : Then Allah rose over the heaven when it was smoke, and said to it and the earth: "Come both of you willingly or unwliingly.: They both said: "Willingly."
if you read the previous verse, you'll know that its talking about the creation of the heavens and the earth. so this verse says that both the heavens and the earth were created together.
Now,
Surah 21, Verse 30: Have not those who disbelieve known that the heavens and the earth were joined together as one united piece, then We parted them? And we have made from water every living thing. Will they not then believe?
Now where does it say in this verse that both were "ripped apart when created" as u alleged.
if you would read it with simple understanding, it says the same as it mentioned in your previous quotation, that he earth and heavens were joined. that means both were created together. so both the verses dont conttradict. and it is after that, that they were parted.
so mister, strange that you coudn't understand this simple a thing, and you went on to quote a string of your so called contradictions. its better if you first read, understand and then quote.
i've cleared just one, and the rest are as illogical as the first one.
 

blueshift

Wise Old Crow
wth... you all seriously read those religious books??

all these posts makes me closer to becoming an atheist!
 

x3060

A LOTR fan
i hate religious books , they are good for sleeping though..:p.
come on , just go out and enjoy the nature...the bright sunshine, the lovely rain , the beautiful rainbow
why read some 10000 page text that someone wrote and fight over it,
you did not write it naaaaa, why bother?????
you guys are fighting like , "your material" just missed the AWARD.
 

x3060

A LOTR fan
LOL :-D

but you can use religious books even in the old days na (As pillow)... just tell them , i am trying to become one with the god :p.

i wonder how people write those books???
i mean look at them , it makes people fight , isnt it???, just a silly book.
 

mediator

Technomancer
O you who believe, do not befriend those among the recipients of previous scripture who mock and ridicule your religion, nor shall you befriend the disbelievers. You shall reverence GOD, if you are really believers.
Previous scripture? I thought blind believers always cried that their scripturez are oldest.
Whiner : If and only if u believe me then don't befriend that guy because he mocks me! :oops:

[60:8-9] GOD does not enjoin you from befriending those who do not fight you because of religion, and do not evict you from your homes. You may befriend them and be equitable towards them. GOD loves the equitable. GOD enjoins you only from befriending those who fight you because of religion, evict you from your homes, and band together with others to banish you. You shall not befriend them. Those who befriend them are the transgressors.
So trangessors are the ones who evict u from ur home? In that light I guess the biggest ones are mughals, talibanis etc.


[9:29] You shall fight back against those who do not believe in GOD, nor in the Last Day, nor do they prohibit what GOD and His messenger have prohibited, nor do they abide by the religion of truth - among those who received the scripture - until they pay the due tax, willingly or unwillingly.
First he/she tells to stay away from disbelievers and then 'enjoins' to fight against them? Sure and create a mess outta a healthy living society.


[8:39] You shall fight them to ward off oppression, and to practice your religion devoted to GOD alone. If they refrain from aggression, then GOD is fully Seer of everything they do.
Goto the lands of innocent souls, start looking for goats, privileges and sharia 'to pratice ur religion'! If they deny u, then create a living hell for em!? Why cant they live peacefully circumsized and without music?

[9:14] You shall fight them, for GOD will punish them at your hands, humiliate them, grant you victory over them, and cool the chests of the believers.
Mughals and thorough believers surely give perfect instances!


[8:12] Recall that your Lord inspired the angels: "I am with you; so support those who believed. I will throw terror into the hearts of those who disbelieved. You may strike them above the necks, and you may strike even every finger."
Who are blind believers to slay infidels when the leader himself is willing to take charge of it?


[5:82] You will find that the worst enemies of the believers are the Jews and the idol worshipers. And you will find that the closest people in friendship to the believers are those who say, "We are Christian." This is because they have priests and monks among them, and they are not arrogant.
Was that supposed to be a joke? Learn how many criminal charges are pendng against Bukhari of Jama Masjid first and the maulvis who hire terrorists in their madrassas.

A contradiction exists when A says this thing is black while B says this thing is white
'A' can be looking at a wall from front which black and 'B' can be looking the same wall, white from behind. 'A' can see a hologram differently from a different angle while B may see something else. U can stick to ur point while I to mine. It might be called argument. Do u even understand what a contradiction is?

It means the same when someone says, "To live according to nature and believe and then says to circumsize urself!" :)

The Quran makes it clear that you can engage in warfare providing certain criteria are met:
1) To resist aggression and keep your society free from other peoples intrusions.
2) To defend your life
And thats called an irony! So please keep those surahs to yourself and save me from reading ironies and contradictions instead of healthy discussions on the topic! :)

U surely deviated it 180 degrees! Congrats :oops:
 

eminemence

Journeyman
This thread has been declared "Communally sensitive thread" :D and I call upon the the mods to impose a curfew :D.
C'mon ppl,chill and lets get back to more sane things.
--eminemence.
 

sreevirus

Certified Nutz
hehehe...couldn't resist...
watch this y'all:

*www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJM4EBuL82o


But damn! The way I see it, there are a lot of fanatics here, not much different from each other.
Oh in the name of humanity, for the love of (your own) god(s), stop fighting people!
 
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