i dare you..provided you have guts......

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eddie

El mooooo
if humans were not intended to eat meat, then how come the body cannot digest cellulose but can digest meat?
We are not intended to digest cellulose because the alimentary canal is fit to digest starch and other complex carbohydrates of Plant products and absorb the by-products. This can be seen by the presence of enzymes like Amylase/Ptyalin right from our saliva. On the other hand, digesting meat of protein is a highly unproductive action for humans because of a small stomach and controlled secretion of Hydrochloric acid & Pepsinogen in the stomach. This kind of setup is more appropriate to digest simpler Proteins stored in Cotyledons of various Plants. The same can be established by measuring the amount of Peptides and Peptones excreted in our feces after a Plant or Meat diet.
 
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hitman050

Journeyman
Yamaraj said:
I'm a vegan, and cannot tolerate any cruelty towards animals. I also agree with what eddie has said in this thread. Finding any excuse to defend meat-eating practice is lame at best, and sad at times.

I was not born a vegan. Everyone in my family, including my parents, liked meat. I was the first to break free of this tradition, after a period of enlightenment (no, not religious) - when I discovered love for nature, animals and innocence in my late teens. Rest of my family members followed suit, and they're lacto-vegetarians now.

You can change too. Look at the animals going to be slaughtered for a mere taste on your tongue. Respect their right to live and prosper. Think about their sufferings and slavery for being what they are.

Exactly the same here. My entire family loves meat, even I used to eat meat till I was 3 years old. But then I realized what I was actually doing, and have become a vegetarian after that.

I think killing animals for food, is no less worse than killing human beings.
 

karmanya

Journeyman
Yamaraj said:
^ As I've said before - killing for survival is different from killing for pleasure. If a person turtures, mutilates and slaughters insects, or lesser animals like rodents - he is no better than a murderer of human beings, for he takes joy in these sadistic acts. Remember that killing people in wars fetch you medals, but you're sent to prison for the same in times of peace. Social definitions of crime and normalcy are variable, and people change them to suit their need or greed.

I'm the kind of person who would choose to starve than kill and eat a chicken wandering nearby, for I believe that my life is no more important than the life of another living being.
do u honestly think that the average indian farmer takes sadistic pleasure in killing chickens to sell? don't be so deluded. also if you believe that your life is no more important than the life of another living being, then why do u swat and kill mosquitoes, ants and cockroaches that may enter your home? cuz at this point you are saying " I am against the slaughtering of animals, but only when it is convenient".
why the hypocrisy?
 

aryayush

Aspiring Novelist
hitman050 said:
My entire family loves meat, even I used to eat meat till I was 3 years old. But then I realized what I was actually doing, and have become a vegetarian after that.
At the age of three, you were able to distinguish between what is wrong and what is right? You left non-vegetarianism at the mere age of three!? WOW! :eek:
 

Yamaraj

The Lord of Death
karmanya said:
do u honestly think that the average indian farmer takes sadistic pleasure in killing chickens to sell? don't be so deluded. also if you believe that your life is no more important than the life of another living being, then why do u swat and kill mosquitoes, ants and cockroaches that may enter your home? cuz at this point you are saying " I am against the slaughtering of animals, but only when it is convenient".
why the hypocrisy?
You didn't get my post. Let's rehash it pointwise: -

1. A farmer doesn't take sadistic pleasure in killing insects, because his own survival depends on the crop. But, if someone picks up an insect and performs vivisection or makes it suffer without any valid reason - he's being cruel to the being. Plain and simple.

2. Killing mosquitos is again different from slaughtering cows, for the mosquito is hell bent on sucking my blood and making me suffer due to the diseases it spreads.

To summerize: I'm against killing a living being only for pleasure - be it for cruel sports or for eating its flesh. I'm not suggesting that you shouldn't kill a maneater lion which is coming to get you. But hunting is cruel, and inhuman.
 

karmanya

Journeyman
in the same way, the average indian animal farmer, does not take sadistic pleasure in killing chickens or pigs or cows or whatever, because his survival depends on the meat that he sells or eats.
plus animals which are killed for meat are not made to suffer- in fact care is taken to kill them as quickly as possible, i have a few relatives in the field and i have never seen them kill a chicken or cow by throwing a cinder block on its head, as was shown in the video. please keep in mind i keep on stressing this: this is INDIA, people cannot afford to slaughter animals.
 

Yamaraj

The Lord of Death
karmanya said:
in the same way, the average indian animal farmer, does not take sadistic pleasure in killing chickens or pigs or cows or whatever, because his survival depends on the meat that he sells or eats.
This is what I meant to say. It's upto the consumers to cut down on the demand, and the supply with take a rest automagically.

karmanya said:
plus animals which are killed for meat are not made to suffer- in fact care is taken to kill them as quickly as possible, i have a few relatives in the field and i have never seen them kill a chicken or cow by throwing a cinder block on its head, as was shown in the video.
But, I've noticed the harsh conditions the animals are kept in - be it chicken or goats or fish. The least they can do is to provide better and stress-free environment for the animals. They slaughter the animals right before the eyes of the living ones in queue. Can you imagine their pain, horror and psychological trauma?

And then there are some, who like to fry and eat living "food" - like lobsters. Koreans, Chinese and Japanese are the worst in this regard. They prepare the animals (preparation being "discarding of the unwanted parts of their bodies"), but take enough as not to kill them in due process. Then they're fried and served semi-alive. Is this acceptable to you?

karmanya said:
please keep in mind i keep on stressing this: this is INDIA, people cannot afford to slaughter animals.
This isn't only about India. And there are sadists everywhere.
 

karmanya

Journeyman
um psychological trauma- these are animals, yes they need to be treated with respect and yes they need to be given more sanitary conditions. but don't condemn eating meat because some aspects are unsavory.(lol coudn't resist that) but you have to realise animals aren't like us- they don't think. they can recognize some basic things- friend, family, foe, hunger, cold etc etc.
 

W i d e S c r e e N

Ambassador of Buzz
That veal calf may end up as wiener schnitzel, but one of our greatest chefs wants it to have a happy life first.

By Wolfgang Puck
Newsweek

May 7, 2007 issue - I've been thinking a lot lately about how it's up to chefs like me to help everyone stay healthy. It's not just about reducing obesity and diabetes, though that's obviously a priority. It's about getting every one of us to eat the right foods. That means buying produce from responsible farmers who grow fruits and vegetables that aren't covered with pesticides or genetically modified. It means getting meat from ranchers who not only shun the use of antibiotics and growth hormones, but also raise their animals humanely in a free-roaming environment.

I'm not going soft, or, heaven forbid, vegan. I'm just trying to be more accountable to myself, my customers and to those who are farming responsibly. And if it means being nicer to animals along the way, well, that's a big bonus. Why shouldn't cows and pigs feel sunlight on their backs, grass under their feet? Fish shouldn't be jammed into tanks too full for them to even think about swimming. They should be able to exercise their muscles and feel a current. Yes, they'll be killed for food—but until then, they should have a nice stay on Earth.

You might say this is ridiculous. Why does it matter how an animal is reared, since you know from the start that it's going to be slaughtered? But I have had a change of heart. I want to be more outspoken about the treatment of animals. I care that a veal calf—yes, even one that's destined to become wiener schnitzel at one of my Spago restaurants—doesn't live out his days in a crate that's too small for him to stand. As for foie gras, my customers and I can easily live without it.

Why did I adopt this new culinary philosophy? I'd been thinking about it for some time when the Humane Society of the United States, a Washington, D.C.-based animal-welfare organization, approached me last year about changing my menu to use ingredients exclusively from humane farmers. And I thought the time was right to make the switch, to lead by example. You might say I've been living this way all my life, from the time I was a young boy in Unterbergen, Austria. We never stocked cans in our pantry. Instead, we ate summer fruit in the summer and winter vegetables when the weather turned cold, just as nature intended. Our chickens were raised to run about the property, and were fed a wholesome diet. Our cows didn't know a thing about bovine growth hormones. And the food tasted better.

This year, Spago turns 25. I am proud of how my 90-seat restaurant in L.A. evolved into a vast food company serving more than 10 million customers each year. But it's not the past quarter-century that's on my mind. It's how I will manage my company for the next 25 years that's consuming me. So here's what I promise to do for a second act. In all of my restaurants, catering businesses, licensed foods and takeout establishments, I'm committed to using organic ingredients and humanely raised meats and fish. By the end of the year, all of the chicken I buy, even for my Wolfgang Puck frozen pizzas, will have been raised cage-free. The veal on my Spago menu is now free-range. To make certain things stay above-board, I've hired someone who will police my purveyors. I want to ensure that everything labeled organic really is, and that no veal calf that finds its way into my kitchen lived its life chained inside a box.

And it won't stop with the food. Our society is too reliant on disposable packaging that sits for eternity in a landfill. I drive through the streets of Beverly Hills and can't help but notice that this city has the largest garbage cans I've ever seen. It's not that bad people live in Beverly Hills, it's just that the more affluent a society we are, the more we tend to throw away. By the end of the year, I'll replace all of my plastic to-go bags with recycled paper, and I'll use more environmentally friendly containers.

I'm hoping other chefs will follow suit. If I can get my foods from responsible ranchers and farmers and feed millions of people each year—and not raise prices—then chefs who cook for smaller audiences can do this, too. And one by one, we'll all benefit. The way I see it, our future will be filled with more chefs and fewer doctors.
© 2007 Newsweek, Inc.
*www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18367502/site/newsweek/

:):D:);):)

 
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Yamaraj

The Lord of Death
karmanya said:
um psychological trauma- these are animals, yes they need to be treated with respect and yes they need to be given more sanitary conditions. but don't condemn eating meat because some aspects are unsavory.(lol coudn't resist that) but you have to realise animals aren't like us- they don't think. they can recognize some basic things- friend, family, foe, hunger, cold etc etc.
You're denying a lot of things. Animals do think, and many of them even make use of tools. And then there are humans, deprived of such abilities. Is it perfectly alright to slaughter and eat them as well? How about a roasted 2 years old, for he cannot think and only recognizes family, friends, foe, hunger, cold et cetera? Or how about frying and serving alive a mentally disabled, who's not brighter than a monkey?

Your logic is flawed at best, for it's based on assumptions and not facts.
 
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karmanya

Journeyman
a 2 year old is human-animals are not. if u cannot condone a human eating meat then why condone tigers eating meat.? i know this is a stupid point but im on my last legs here
 

Yamaraj

The Lord of Death
karmanya said:
a 2 year old is human-animals are not. if u cannot condone a human eating meat then why condone tigers eating meat.? i know this is a stupid point but im on my last legs here
Why the discrimination - this feeling of humans being superior to animals? It's not like animals don't have a family, or don't feel pain. Even if we really are superior to them, why can't we be protective of the less intellectually developed? Is superiority all about making others suffer?

Tigers haven't got much choice. Believe me, if they could grow crops and survive on rice and wheat, they would. Besides, carnivores of the jungle have yet to establish industrialized slaughterhouses to match the cruelty and materialism of humans. A tiger hunting its prey in the wild is still better than humans growing little chicken in farms only to be slaughtered at the sacrificial altar of taste and pleasure.
 

aryayush

Aspiring Novelist
I went to an Apple Premium Reseller to buy a good sleeve for my MacBook Pro. There was one from Case Mate that wasn't very expensive and I quite liked the feel of it. Then I looked at the list of features and one there was one prominently displayed feature, "Made of genuine calf skin".

I know this must be a selling point for a lot of customers, but I felt disgusted to even be holding that thing in my hands. They surely lost one customer that day. I wish more people did the same.
 

adithyagenius

I WANT MORE FPS!!
This video reminds of the way the Stroggs were treating humans in Quake4. In France real fruit juices with pulp cost much less than milk. There its cheap to be vegetarian. In India, we are reliant on bournivita, coffe, tea, milk shake etc. Not to forget the cakes and ice creams. But vegetarian food will always be healthier. True veg food keeps humans active. There are other problems too like pollution and petrol ( misuse ). We need to take walks when possible and use public transportation instead of SUVs whenever possible. Everything is interlinked and is never going to be followed by everyone due to laziness and the ego of not accepting the mistakes they have been commiting. But if atleast half of us protect environment and do the right thing , we can atleast prolong the doom's day of self destruction. We need not become 100% Mr Right , just do whatever possible, giving up our laziness bit by bit over a period of time. The incentive is health and wealth (if done right).

Oh yeah, the bull$hit video was bull$hit because it was trying to prove the messenger bad not the message wrong. We should view the PETA video for the message and not the messenger.

Worst thing to do is follow the non-sense told by religion. Everyone has a conscience made by nature. Try following it. Nature has made humans with various mentalities - good and bad, fearless and coward, loyal and cunning, intelligent and idiot. All this for survival of human race. Some of the religious outfits which condemn independant thoughts have been perversing the conscience. So dont hate a non-vegan just because you are vegetarian.
 

karmanya

Journeyman
@arya i agree with you. I am against using actual leather in any products. but i do not think that eating them is a crime.
and yamraj - though being superior is not all about making others suffer, but there will always be discrimination- why do people usually not allow cows, pigs or chickens to live with them? always remember the food chain.
and "the sacrificial alter of taste and pleasure"? isnt that a little too melodramatic?
 

Yamaraj

The Lord of Death
faraaz said:
@karmanya: It's all about the cute lil fuzzy wuzzy animals remember?
No, it's about conscience. And yours is suffocating under the load of your tongue.

karmanya said:
and "the sacrificial alter of taste and pleasure"? isnt that a little too melodramatic?
Indeed, but quite the truth.
 
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faraaz

Evil Genius
Spare me your soapbox dramatics Yamaraj. You really need to stick to discussing the issue at hand rather than resort to making personal attacks.
 

Yamaraj

The Lord of Death
faraaz said:
Spare me your soapbox dramatics Yamaraj. You really need to stick to discussing the issue at hand rather than resort to making personal attacks.
Practice what you preach, and I'll see to it next time.
 
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