How do i become a fit programmer for the indian IT industry?

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achuthan1988

Broken In
Do less, but do it well.

And do not make the mistake of following "Indian Engineering approach".

i would like to slightly modify your words of wisdom...
do well with humility,live today and do it well

To become a fit programmer for the "Indian" IT industry, all you need not to be is a "Yashwant Kanetkar/E. Balagurusamy/Sumita Arora groomed unfit programmer."

Here's an example of Yashwant Kanetkar certified IT professional.

The title of this image is "Protest - IT Style" (yea, seriously.)

*i.imgur.com/i1fOb.jpg

Are you a photoshop god or is that real :mrgreen:

Why has'nt anyone talked about .NET books and experience?

IT interview gone wrong
IT Interview Gone Wrong - Complete - YouTube
 

sukant

Fragholic
By learning to use google very fast and effectively :D

Note: Since you said the Indian IT industry i m suggesting this ;)
 

rajarshi

Right off the assembly line
You guys have some pretty strong resentments against the Indian IT industry and IT engineers . I was just wondering how ignorant people good only at their communication skills and some luck could end up doing 50 billion USD worth of business every year .
May be the Siamese twins end up doing all the work of them .
 

ico

Super Moderator
Staff member
You guys have some pretty strong resentments against the Indian IT industry and IT engineers . I was just wondering how ignorant people good only at their communication skills and some luck could end up doing 50 billion USD worth of business every year .
May be the Siamese twins end up doing all the work of them .
We have nothing against the Indian IT industry.

Only against stupid Indian education system and stupid books by Indian authors.

wtf is void main()? conio.h? getch()?
 

Liverpool_fan

Sami Hyypiä, LFC legend
Then what it should be? :?

Precisely, why Indian Education System gets criticisim and abuse. And not a dig at you, it's not your fault. But it will be if you don't read the following link.
Read all parts.

Things to Avoid in C/C++ -- gets() , Part 1 - GIDNetwork
 

dashing.sujay

Moving
Staff member
Precisely, why Indian Education System gets criticisim and abuse. And not a dig at you, it's not your fault. But it will be if you don't read the following link.
Read all parts.

Things to Avoid in C/C++ -- gets() , Part 1 - GIDNetwork

Thanks for the link, i'm going through it and will surely revise my knowledge. :)

PS- Its very sad that these kind of "mistakes" are followed/practiced by majority of learners/teachers, and all kind of ppl related to it. It surely needs attention.

Next day i'm gonna show this link to show my computer teacher and scold him :p :))
 

nbaztec

Master KOD3R
Things to survive, in the Indian IT industry, hmm lets see...

What I Think: It's simple Logic, a whole lotta logic and a clear vision. Being diverse in programming language (not the same as [1-4]months course) sure helps a lot. It's like you all of a sudden have numerous tools at your disposal. It's your discretion which matters.

Books? Honestly never followed books. ESPECIALLY of INDIAN AUTHORS. I mean what could you possibly expect from people who've been brought up among a society where people tamper with even the most primitive standard - A Kg Weight. Internet has aplenty people to help you. And did I mention not to use Indian Author books?

If you're gonna do it anyway, do it right: Always follow the standards. Respect the rules laid down.
Case Study: A friend of mine (in the spirit of competition - with me) went on a spree to lean multiple languages. He "learnt" C in 3 months, C++ in 2, MFC in 8 & C# in 1 month flat. Sounds good?
Here's the catch, he frequently uses void main(), gets() in C. Builds abysmal hard coded console programs in C++ (STL what's that?), MFC programs are candy coated to hide severe performance issues, disregards interfaces & abuses inheritance instead (C#). Most of the time he'll be relying on 3rd party codes. Anyone wanna hire him? IT firms want good looking code not good looking applications. Aesthetic uplift can be done any time.

And no programming thread is complete without the eternal "TC", seriously kill that miserable excuse of a "C++" compiler already.
 

abhijangda

Padawan
^^^ absolutely right dude.
One more thing is that today people just think there are only 3 programming languages C, C++, Java. They don't know about Python, Perl etc. Moreover, they consider C as a basic language for C++ and Java. They think we should first learn C then C++ then Java. They think programming is sole thing in computer science. There are so many myths present in India. These all have to be removed.
 

rajarshi

Right off the assembly line
Things to survive, in the Indian IT industry, hmm lets see...


I mean what could you possibly expect from people who've been brought up among a society where people tamper with even the most primitive standard - A Kg Weight.

Could you elaborate ?
BTW way I think stereotyping people is a thought held by inept people who has not seen much of the world . Have you ever heard of people like Rajeev Motwani , Shamkant Navathe , Chandrajit Bajaj? Their books are read all over the world . In fact if you are doing your masters in the US in either electrical or Computer Science there would be a very limited number of books which wont have an Indian author or co author . Intellectualism is independent of geography . We just need some catching up to do .
Be proud of your country , there are more good than bad and we are improving every day .
 

nbaztec

Master KOD3R
Well I absolutely admire C, C++ & Java. I consider C++ to be my personal favorite, esp. w/ VCL framework. It's not about which language is the best, it's all about which suits the task best & requires minimum effort.

You can perform web scraping w/ C,C++,C# & JAVA but Python or Perl(if you're up for the task) w/ PHP is one of the best possible path to take.

[Disclaimer] The author of this post does NOT advocate the use of RegExes for web scraping.
 
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ico

Super Moderator
Staff member
Could you elaborate ?
BTW way I think stereotyping people is a thought held by inept people who has not seen much of the world . Have you ever heard of people like Rajeev Motwani , Shamkant Navathe , Chandrajit Bajaj? Their books are read all over the world . In fact if you are doing your masters in the US in either electrical or Computer Science there would be a very limited number of books which wont have an Indian author or co author . Intellectualism is independent of geography . We just need some catching up to do .
Be proud of your country , there are more good than bad and we are improving every day .
We are talking of the 'poor' books by Yashavant Kanetkar, Sumita Arora and E. Balagurusamy which prevail in India. And people don't stop suggesting these. :rolleyes:

If you think reading 'Let us C' increases the chances of placement, guess that sums up Indian education system for me.
 

Liverpool_fan

Sami Hyypiä, LFC legend
Could you elaborate ?
BTW way I think stereotyping people is a thought held by inept people who has not seen much of the world . Have you ever heard of people like Rajeev Motwani , Shamkant Navathe , Chandrajit Bajaj?
Googling on them, each of them are based in the United States. This further reinforces the point. For every Rajeev Motwani, there would be 1 lakh poorly trained and misguided individuals passing out of IT,etc. with no fault of their own but a consequence of an absolute joke of an education system which focuses ONLY on attendance/copying assignment/passing exams by rote-vormitting and absolutely nothing on learning, creativity, innovation, or anything worthwhile.

Their books are read all over the world . In fact if you are doing your masters in the US in either electrical or Computer Science there would be a very limited number of books which wont have an Indian author or co author .
That's beside the point.

Intellectualism is independent of geography .
Indeed it is. And Indians are not the only intelligent "species" are our media or idiots try to portray as.

We just need some catching up to do .
Just some? We need nothing short of a revolution in education system and perception of the society.
Be proud of your country , there are more good than bad and we are improving every day .
There's nothing to be proud of. We are more bad than good and getting worse as we stick with the past.

P.S.: Doesn't mean all Indians are useless. There are many excellent programmers, designers, etc. But with millions passing out every year, it's a faint minority.
Majority have been badly trained, the media overhypes the hell out overachieving Indians and the wankfest over IIT/IIM is a joke. And the quality of IT education is beyond a joke.
 

nbaztec

Master KOD3R
Could you elaborate ?
BTW way I think stereotyping people is a thought held by inept people who has not seen much of the world . Have you ever heard of people like Rajeev Motwani , Shamkant Navathe , Chandrajit Bajaj? Their books are read all over the world . In fact if you are doing your masters in the US in either electrical or Computer Science there would be a very limited number of books which wont have an Indian author or co author . Intellectualism is independent of geography . We just need some catching up to do .
Be proud of your country , there are more good than bad and we are improving every day .

long version:

Ok, I my have been wrong in stereotyping part. Apologies. But facts don't really lie.

I've been recommended/forced to read many Indian authored books & here's what I find. Of every 10 books I've read 8 have their material lifted from a foreign author book. Most of the time, esp. in programming books paragraphs are "lost in translation/context" types. More so some don't even follow the holier-than-thou standard. Hence my point #3. You even wondered, why people say old habits die hard - they ain't bluffing. This leads to a rigged "Don't fix it, if it ain't broke" mentality "Don't fix it, if it ain't broke - yet!". The worst part it they take it as an exception & go around in circles blinded by their ignorance or sheer laziness.

India at it's present stature has a growing no. of programmers & the scenario is, if you're good at programming, i.e. follow the code (pun intended) you'd have a nice job (* Conditions Apply) & the others "programmers" are left for teaching and/or rule formation. Guess who'll be teaching the next generation! Hey is that a Blue Dinosaur I see over there....

Warning: Personal Outrage Ahead
Again, I apologize for the elaborative post but then again our Education System SUCKS! I tell this from personal experience. I've seen my scores plummet just 'cause I used int main(int argc, char[] argv), only 'cause I preferred cin.getline(char*, int) instead of gets(char*) - what the books used, only 'cause I bothered to optomize the sukcy algos of these sh!tty recommended books, only 'cause I knew what threads were, only 'cause I knew much more than what our teachers taught us. Ironically, everyone else seemed to do just fine. It sukcs to be in such an education system where Wrong is forced upon you. And no I did not use void main(), it's not about scores but a higher thing.

tldr; version:
Apologies for the stereotyping, but majority of the Indian authors are bad if not plagiarists and the educational system can only compete with the Harappans. It's a sad state.

But then again, it is my personal opinion. I've given up playing the standard enforcer long ago.

P.S.
Could you elaborate ?
BTW way I think stereotyping people is a thought held by inept people who has not seen much of the world .
...
Be proud of your country
Who said about the rest of the world. I have serious issues with people (not you) who think that if any NRI makes it big in the US or any other foreign country for that matter, it makes India proud. I mean, c'mon the fine lad/lady did his best to become a successful individual in an altogether different nation & there you go accrediting yourself just because he's an Indian. He/She has worked hard for where he/she is, India had no role to play except giving him the genes which will make him/her look somewhat "Indian".
Code:
    // NRIs making it big != Indians doing great
    try
    {
         indianProgrammer.CheckForSuccess((EducationSystem) indianEducationSys);
    }
    catch( RareException e)
    {}
 
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rajarshi

Right off the assembly line
Hi these again are my personal opinion :

1. I think education as a system is a definite fail not only in Engineering but in all streams in India be it law ( we have lacs of cases still awaiting trial ) , in arts ( not a single noble laureate since Tagore ) in pure sciences , journalism ( have you seen the number of breaking news here?) etc . The blame is not the curriculum ( any other student in the world would be studying the same material and the same books as an Indian undergraduate ) . Its the lack of implementation and the rigidness in the system . By the time we are in college we are already used to rote learning poems , dates when kings and queens died and pages of math formula . However , if one has the will one can surely look aside and make necessary adjustment to achieve a balance between academic excellence and actual knowledge . I do not say this is right but this , you have have fight just as any other hazards that you face say rainstorm with an umbrella or pregnancy with a contraceptive unless you are one of those protesting type , sit in a dharna and do something about it .

2. I do not think majority of the Indian Engineering students are of low quality because of the arcane educational system . I have met some of brightest mind ever who were educated here and doing rather well . Companies will always prefer an engineering undergraduate , after they deem him to be fit . Its like in a surgery you would always call a doctor not a nurse . I agree their are "rotten apples" but in a MNCs those people either end up getting dumped or probably become HRs handling programmers and their screwed up personal life .

3. Every where contemporary students would start of with the old DOS version of main() because they are learners that time . They are expected to be wise enough to use command line parameters when in projects .Also , I would like to add in many situations you would use void main () as say in the ICC11/ICC12/Metrowerks and embedded ARM programming .

4. The biggest stumbling block to the whole educational system IMO are the teachers who in CS's case are mostly rejects with no interest to teach and with thoughts that are still stuck in the colonial era .

5. I agree somewhat to the Indian authors fact . The are just conforming to the system . Its just like one of the bad products from India we have bad defense developments , bad whiskey, bad bollywood cinema and bad CS books .
I do not have any further views .

Bye and Peace .
 

Liverpool_fan

Sami Hyypiä, LFC legend
Teachers are an easy scapegoat to make. :| The same excuse can be made for them as you made for authors, "conforming to the system".

For me it's the moronic heads who set the joke of a curriculum, and no focus on quality, stuck in the classroom/exam type of retarded learning are to blame.

And arguing that void main is used in some ARM systems is no argument at all.
 

Garbage

God of Mistakes...
I think this is going too offtopic. People, can we please stay on topic and post some useful information to the OP?

All the Indian authors and programming books discussion can be done in some other thread. :|
 
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