infra_red_dude
Wire muncher!
^^^ exactly, its jus giving them an insight of linux. jus basic knowledge required to operate an linux system.
Free Software Compulsory in India!
- Status
din
Tribal Boy
@pathiks
It is implemeted in many schools already. MS tried their level best to fight against it, but didn't succeed yet.
My bro-in-law is workin as a Teacher in a high school, here in Kerala, he said all PCs (50 or 60 in his school) in the school are running on Debian now !!
And mainly these should come as general knowledge ! When I joined IBM 7 yr back, I heard of the name Linus, but not RMS. We got more info from sites, teachers and other friends, I mean about the open source movement and their leaders.
Once the movement is fully rolled out in schools, students will be more aware of things happening around the world. And they will know MS is not the only thing in the world and there are laternatives
It is implemeted in many schools already. MS tried their level best to fight against it, but didn't succeed yet.
My bro-in-law is workin as a Teacher in a high school, here in Kerala, he said all PCs (50 or 60 in his school) in the school are running on Debian now !!
No, every PC will have Debian, not just the borring telnet window, but it has desktop, all apps needed by the student - paint, office, all.ilugd said:
I am not sure from which state you are, but if you ask similar questions to a student who is 10 or 12 yrs in Kerala, they will surely give you answer. I am telling this from my experience. At present the syllabus contains more details on open source, its founders etc - even at lower levels.kumarmohit said:
And mainly these should come as general knowledge ! When I joined IBM 7 yr back, I heard of the name Linus, but not RMS. We got more info from sites, teachers and other friends, I mean about the open source movement and their leaders.
Once the movement is fully rolled out in schools, students will be more aware of things happening around the world. And they will know MS is not the only thing in the world and there are laternatives
Last edited:
kumarmohit
Technomancer
@din
I am from Delhi. As for the information availabillity naturally FOSS has changed very much since 2000 and comeon if pple from school know abt it, engg students doing RHCE should also know it. but they weredoing it just becoz they had to and the teachers were teaching them VI and commands. Its like teaching the monad powershell to a person who does not know wat C: means.
@ praka
First of all, using an OS is not addiction! If you think that it is, than you are equally addicted to Linux. Which makes your stand for freedom sound nothing more than self righteous blabbering. One who himself is addicted can not claim to cure other.
We, now wait a minute, who else gave you the right to speak on his part. Again this is the self righteous attitude of Linux bigots which is going to ruin the entire concept of freedom to choose and use the software you want.
See I am just saying that freedom can not be forced down the neck of people, unfortunately this is wat Kerala govt is trying to do.
if you want to use Linux, cool why impose it on others just like MS tries to impose it on you by FUD. Isnt this like countering FUD with state power.
I am from Delhi. As for the information availabillity naturally FOSS has changed very much since 2000 and comeon if pple from school know abt it, engg students doing RHCE should also know it. but they weredoing it just becoz they had to and the teachers were teaching them VI and commands. Its like teaching the monad powershell to a person who does not know wat C: means.
@ praka
First of all, using an OS is not addiction! If you think that it is, than you are equally addicted to Linux. Which makes your stand for freedom sound nothing more than self righteous blabbering. One who himself is addicted can not claim to cure other.
We, now wait a minute, who else gave you the right to speak on his part. Again this is the self righteous attitude of Linux bigots which is going to ruin the entire concept of freedom to choose and use the software you want.
See I am just saying that freedom can not be forced down the neck of people, unfortunately this is wat Kerala govt is trying to do.
if you want to use Linux, cool why impose it on others just like MS tries to impose it on you by FUD. Isnt this like countering FUD with state power.
din
Tribal Boy
First - You are right. Lot of people do RHCE for the sake of doing that ! They heard an RHCE can earn lot of $$, so they join. And some do college projects in Lin or related stuff just coz they think it will add something in their resume ! Unless we know what we are doing and we love what we are doing, its all useless.
And yes, Teachers matters. If they are not used to Lin, its not easy. But in Kerala they started giving proper training to the teachers. Of course it will take some time. Hope they make students friendly to Lin.
Another thing in Kerala (apart from the $$$), the ruling party support Opensource / Lin a lot. They are against monopoly, big companies etc ! Thats the reason they are doing like this (I am not justifying what they are doing, I was explaining why they are doing it). As prakash mentioned, after 2-3 yrs, the other party will come in power and MS will be back in schools, no doubt in that !
And yes, Teachers matters. If they are not used to Lin, its not easy. But in Kerala they started giving proper training to the teachers. Of course it will take some time. Hope they make students friendly to Lin.
Another thing in Kerala (apart from the $$$), the ruling party support Opensource / Lin a lot. They are against monopoly, big companies etc ! Thats the reason they are doing like this (I am not justifying what they are doing, I was explaining why they are doing it). As prakash mentioned, after 2-3 yrs, the other party will come in power and MS will be back in schools, no doubt in that !
praka123
left this forum longback
How can you call some one a zealot?kumarmohit said:
I am not restricted to GNU/Linux itself and when it comes to make alternate os's known to people some needs to be "de-addicted" or "unlearn" what they are injected for this many years.and the term i used "we" hence stands for ppl who agrees with me.
Freedom?Why do Microsoft wants you to upgrade to latest version?sure it will after few months.why do we have GPLv3 here?to counter attack and hence protect OSS.(if u know)
and its a wrong concept that people henceforth use only one single os for their entire life.only think is what kerala government does is simply great and except from some FUD from manorama newspaper and M$ India everything is right over here.Linux adoption from school itself means the student will learn both *NIX and Windows sidebyside.windows?they will be forced in everywhere to use windows!that's how they learn.
Now luring programming interested kids to .net and M$ technologies in small classes itself makes biggest win bigots to say with.
Let then know what GUI programming in gtk+2 or qt4 and be familier with gcc.rather than ancient "turbo c" compiler.
with Linux esp a friendly debian derivative which is updated for new h/w support too is a very good job.
we need to remove this bug#1 infection from India
*launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1
below is a nice read :
Promoting Linux by Silencing Microsoft
^am gonna follow this way.silence
Last edited:
Hello,
although the Supreme Court has ruled that ,"State can formulate the policies for their own citizen" what many of members here missing are a important question, whether software freedom can be achieved by force?
For years Microsoft, with its money power ,used unethical means to dominate the software industry by destroying rivals,stealing,bribing congress members,senators,legislators, judiciary, using voilence, bribery every thing in the law books, and away with some minor punishment..FOSS is mainly such contributions from MS empire..
'We are doing what MS is doing in other parts ' is not going to be correct answer..
The best course open to the Govt is use both windows and Linux in the curriculum.
Now I have purchased a AMD X2-Compaq presario-V 3425 which is coming with preinstalled with vista. I managed to install Ubuntu, pclinux OS, and Granular Linux,(still some space left for some additional distro). I am showing it to my office employees ,friends etc..almost all of them impress with beryl effects ,and oo packages doing office work, where as Vista get poor review...
My point here is modern day linux has more maturity than windows,and this can be demonstrated by side by side comparision...So let windows be there..We will use windows to kill windows..
with regards,
vaithy
although the Supreme Court has ruled that ,"State can formulate the policies for their own citizen" what many of members here missing are a important question, whether software freedom can be achieved by force?
For years Microsoft, with its money power ,used unethical means to dominate the software industry by destroying rivals,stealing,bribing congress members,senators,legislators, judiciary, using voilence, bribery every thing in the law books, and away with some minor punishment..FOSS is mainly such contributions from MS empire..
'We are doing what MS is doing in other parts ' is not going to be correct answer..
The best course open to the Govt is use both windows and Linux in the curriculum.
Now I have purchased a AMD X2-Compaq presario-V 3425 which is coming with preinstalled with vista. I managed to install Ubuntu, pclinux OS, and Granular Linux,(still some space left for some additional distro). I am showing it to my office employees ,friends etc..almost all of them impress with beryl effects ,and oo packages doing office work, where as Vista get poor review...
My point here is modern day linux has more maturity than windows,and this can be demonstrated by side by side comparision...So let windows be there..We will use windows to kill windows..
with regards,
vaithy
kumarmohit
Technomancer
Fanboyism, We have some on this forum too, for Windows, OSX and Linux too.
Exactly, people who agree with you. Not every in the world might agree with you. Heck not everyone in Kerala might agree with you. Unfortunatly, this is wat Kerala govt is doing. They are trying to force linux down the throat of people and this is what I think is wrong. If someone wants to learn it, fine, why make someone who wants to go the other way, go your way. This is democracy, not communism. Unfortunatly the commie govt in Kerala thinks that wat they think is correct. But why do they forget that ppl have brains and they want choice. If we did not want choice we wud have accepted everything from spyware of govt to DRM but no, we know that they kill choice and they are bad. Heck we wud still be British if it was not about choice.
As for addiction etc. Seriously u think all the ppl who are being forced to study linux here are fanboys of other OSs. Come on they are just school kids. Some might not even know wat is difference in HW and SW.
That is the bone of contention is it not. Imagine if next kerala govt comes and scraps linux and brings OSX or as u said brings windows. Than it would not be a good move. Even than I wud be angry coz the problem is not Linux or Windows. The problem is the murder of wat the entire FOSS community stands for - Freedom of Choice.
infra_red_dude
Wire muncher!
i agree wid some points and don't wid some others. windows and linux should be taught side by side. students should haf a knowhow of both. however, before implementing this move the Govt. should take steps to see that the teachers are well educated in the field of both. the course should not be obsolete, as in teachers telling students that linux is only about CLI. instead they should teach them that CLI is the most powerful component of linux. they should tell them about beryl/compiz. show them everything in linux widout a biased of uninformed nature. only then this will succeed.
most of the ppl today haf computerz at home and only a countable number go in for linux at home. so the students hafing windows at home has a very high chance. if they are taught about outdated linux - no eyecandy, poor driver support (as in the PCs at school not hafing audio etc. due to older version of distro etc.), teaching only CLI and nothing else will actually harm this initiative as ppl will obviously tend to compare the obsolete version/uninformed teaching wid windows at their home.
most of the ppl today haf computerz at home and only a countable number go in for linux at home. so the students hafing windows at home has a very high chance. if they are taught about outdated linux - no eyecandy, poor driver support (as in the PCs at school not hafing audio etc. due to older version of distro etc.), teaching only CLI and nothing else will actually harm this initiative as ppl will obviously tend to compare the obsolete version/uninformed teaching wid windows at their home.
din
Tribal Boy
I also agree with the point - Forcing is never a good thing. Let it may be Lin / Win / Mac or whatever.
But many users here pointed teachers show only CLI and students may get borred of it. That is NOT true. As per the syllabus in Kerala state, they are learning basic things which a desktop user should know. They are not learning CLI at all (when it was win 2-3 yrs back, they were not learning DOS either). Main things are - Graphic softwares (including GIMP), Office suits, HTML, Some basic programming / logic stuff. And nothing else (information form my bro-in-law whos a high school teacher in Kerala - physics / IT).
Of course people can argue students wil miss the beuty of CLI. But IT came to the syllabus in Kerala schools 2-3 yrs back only, so they may change the syllabus to include more in the future.
So at present they will not miss the eyecandy at all. But they will sure miss the MS stuff - for the time being.
Another thing, is its just like a political revenge !!! 2-3 yrs back, Govt was of other party and they promoted only MS and nothing else in Kerala. Opensource movement people contacted the Govt / Acadameic people, but they never care and all were using MS products. Now it just got reversed as people in power changed !! Of course, both attitudes are not good, I was just explaining how it happened.
But many users here pointed teachers show only CLI and students may get borred of it. That is NOT true. As per the syllabus in Kerala state, they are learning basic things which a desktop user should know. They are not learning CLI at all (when it was win 2-3 yrs back, they were not learning DOS either). Main things are - Graphic softwares (including GIMP), Office suits, HTML, Some basic programming / logic stuff. And nothing else (information form my bro-in-law whos a high school teacher in Kerala - physics / IT).
Of course people can argue students wil miss the beuty of CLI. But IT came to the syllabus in Kerala schools 2-3 yrs back only, so they may change the syllabus to include more in the future.
So at present they will not miss the eyecandy at all. But they will sure miss the MS stuff - for the time being.
Another thing, is its just like a political revenge !!! 2-3 yrs back, Govt was of other party and they promoted only MS and nothing else in Kerala. Opensource movement people contacted the Govt / Acadameic people, but they never care and all were using MS products. Now it just got reversed as people in power changed !! Of course, both attitudes are not good, I was just explaining how it happened.
infra_red_dude
Wire muncher!
then i think this initiative is fair enuff. coz here linux is used only as a base OS about which nobody is bothered. they are not teaching linux, they are teaching the use of computer and some apps. so it doesn't matter whether they use windows or linux. the apps here are imp. not the OS. so it makes sense to shift to linux and save $$$.din said:
kumarmohit
Technomancer
^^^ What! They are not teaching the CLI, this proves it. The people who make the curriculum do not have only one thing, brains
.
But if its the apps they are teaching, why force the move to linux, most of the software is cross platform. Mobilization of resources to ensure that GIMP and the other stuff runs, when it can easily run on what they have presently seems crazy. Why move to Linux when you do not want to teach it? And why force the move on everyone!
Huf well, the Kerala govt is communist. The communists have always thought to have a divine monopoly over what is good and what is right. But then the divine monopoly is an irony in itself considering that communists do not think that there is something like Divine or divinity.
.But if its the apps they are teaching, why force the move to linux, most of the software is cross platform. Mobilization of resources to ensure that GIMP and the other stuff runs, when it can easily run on what they have presently seems crazy. Why move to Linux when you do not want to teach it? And why force the move on everyone!
Huf well, the Kerala govt is communist. The communists have always thought to have a divine monopoly over what is good and what is right. But then the divine monopoly is an irony in itself considering that communists do not think that there is something like Divine or divinity.
infra_red_dude
Wire muncher!
to cut down the cost incurred in purchasing windows!kumarmohit said:
faraaz
Evil Genius
Screw it...force the students to learn Linux. The average Joe Blogs doesn't care what he uses as long as he can get his work done. My mom uses email and chatting to stay in touch with me. She doesn't care if its Firefox on Windows or Firefox on Ubuntu...
I think this is a great idea. All you fanboys can just suck it! haha!
I think this is a great idea. All you fanboys can just suck it! haha!
praka123
left this forum longback
it is completely wrong to associate communism with FOSS.this is software freedom what RMS & co proposing.we must acknowledge his fight against the devil(microsoft) like ppl throwing stones at Jamra while in Mecca.
I hope all the pcs transferred to Linux+oss softwares,it saves money,ppl learns community support and the basic of FOSS ideology.above all a superior Operating system with Linux.
earlier it was pc=windows was the condition.and hence M$ became the monopoly os maker and creates fanboys who says familiar is easy!
Now this is the time gov must change the policy to enforce Free Software in India.good job!
wrong,wrong -the guy is completely addicted to M$FT and windows!.
I hope he read Linux is NOT Windows article,@kumarmohit must read this!
*linux.oneandoneis2.org/LNW.htm
I hope all the pcs transferred to Linux+oss softwares,it saves money,ppl learns community support and the basic of FOSS ideology.above all a superior Operating system with Linux.
earlier it was pc=windows was the condition.and hence M$ became the monopoly os maker and creates fanboys who says familiar is easy!
Now this is the time gov must change the policy to enforce Free Software in India.good job!
wrong,wrong -the guy is completely addicted to M$FT and windows!.
I hope he read Linux is NOT Windows article,@kumarmohit must read this!
*linux.oneandoneis2.org/LNW.htm
din
Tribal Boy
@kumarmohit
Your point about forcing is correct, however
1. The syllabus is IT and not Linux, I mean Linux is not included in the syllabus and students are not going to learn anything about Linux right now. By the IT in school, they are giving just an introduction to computers and related stuff.
2. This is going to change as they are going to revise the syllabus and curriculm. They are planning to include more open source things within 3 years (you can see the link from thread starting part). So teaching Lin, CLI everything may come to Syllabus, but not right now.
3. Introducing things in openourse OS - cut down the cost, OS does not matter much, and may be Govt against MS - political reasons.
4. Two-three yrs back, everything was in Windows in schools. At that time Windows was not included in curriculum either. I mean no DOS, nothing speficic to win. Only the graphic tools, office suits, etc. So that part hasn't changed at all.
5. There are people from different political beliefs here. So please refrain from making comments on politics ! Please stick on to the topic.
6. I am curious about other states. I know CBSE / ICSE etc schools teach computers more, may be more programming etc. But any other state syllabus, they included IT as a main subject ? if so, what are all things they teach in classes 8,9 and 10. This is just to compare, as I do not know how things in other states. If anyone has some information, please share here.
Your point about forcing is correct, however
1. The syllabus is IT and not Linux, I mean Linux is not included in the syllabus and students are not going to learn anything about Linux right now. By the IT in school, they are giving just an introduction to computers and related stuff.
2. This is going to change as they are going to revise the syllabus and curriculm. They are planning to include more open source things within 3 years (you can see the link from thread starting part). So teaching Lin, CLI everything may come to Syllabus, but not right now.
3. Introducing things in openourse OS - cut down the cost, OS does not matter much, and may be Govt against MS - political reasons.
4. Two-three yrs back, everything was in Windows in schools. At that time Windows was not included in curriculum either. I mean no DOS, nothing speficic to win. Only the graphic tools, office suits, etc. So that part hasn't changed at all.
5. There are people from different political beliefs here. So please refrain from making comments on politics ! Please stick on to the topic.
6. I am curious about other states. I know CBSE / ICSE etc schools teach computers more, may be more programming etc. But any other state syllabus, they included IT as a main subject ? if so, what are all things they teach in classes 8,9 and 10. This is just to compare, as I do not know how things in other states. If anyone has some information, please share here.
amitsurana
Broken In
Its like you "force" kids to "learn" and "memorize" the *free software*.
I don' agree to this move.
I believe awareness must be created but as subject its not gud...
I don think the prof or teacher who will take up this subject will be a openSource technoloy user......
I don' agree to this move.
I believe awareness must be created but as subject its not gud...
I don think the prof or teacher who will take up this subject will be a openSource technoloy user......
amitsurana
Broken In
@above
So then wat s the use of calling it an free software subject thingy if u wanna teach HTML, graphic tools, etc....
So then wat s the use of calling it an free software subject thingy if u wanna teach HTML, graphic tools, etc....
- Status