Does India need a revolution?

[Yamaraj]

@cyberboy_kerala

Sorry to say but your definition of "freedom" is a very limited one. As you probably know, every child in this country has the right to freedom of eduation. Yet, because of government's policies, there are millions of illeterates. Who ate up their freedom? When our own people were dying of hunger, government was donating "excess" productions to other countries. Yay for freedom!

How do you know that Indian government is not executing people unfairly, without giving them a just trial? Either you're not interested in what's happening outside your TV screen, or too naive to understand and admit fallacies of your own argument. Read this - *reason-and-revolution.blogspot.com/2006/11/indian-government-policy-towards-indian.html
A former Director General of the BSF talks about how unfair the capitalist government of ours have been to the poor - that they had turn to socialism and naxalism. Even unarmed women of theirs are 'executed' on the spot by the police, without a fair trial in a court of law - much less the naxals themselves.

Go read some on J&K, where hundreds, if not thousands, were executed by the police and army for money and medals. Switch off that idiot box of yours and read about NE conflicts.

Besides, I consider it more humane to just execute a person than have him die of hunger slowly. And then officials will just refute the news by claiming it was due to some disease. So much for your "Indian freedom". And why shouldn't China execute the corrupt? At least their leaders are not looting the national treasury as ours do. Corruption is the single biggest hindrance to the development of a moral human and a healthy nation.

It's laughable how little you know of the Indian democracy. No matter how bad, illeterate, corrupt and mass murderers these politicians are, people will always vote for them - either because they belong to a certain caste or religion or something equally stupid. Why didn't the Great Indian Public vote Rajiv Gandhi out? Masses are stupid enough to not have voted out both Sonia and Sushma when they were competing against each either for the LS seat. They knew it very well that winner wasn't going to visit her constituency ever again, still they voted for her. Why? Because stupidity has no limits.

I'm not a hedonist and materialism doesn't affect me. I don't praise China for her skyscrapers or communists. I praise her for being 3 times as large as India and still be able to pull ahead of many, not because of communism - but despite it.

India severely lacks this strength. Development does not translate to economy, skyscrapers, standards of living, Mercedes and BMWs, Honda and Hayabusas, ACs and Plasma screens or other materials of hedonistic pleasure. Development, IMHO, is uplifting your "self" from the misery. Development is about having a sane society that is somehow not bent on making money by all means necessary. It is about co-existing with your surroundings, not consuming them. It is about enlightenment.

You are not what you wear. You are not your shoes. You are not what you drive. Know thyself!

 

[aliasghark]

india neither needs a dictator, nor is everything perfect.

... your definition of "freedom" is a very limited one. As you probably know, every child in this country has the right to freedom of eduation. Yet, because of government's policies, there are millions of illeterates. Who ate up their freedom...

your definition of freedom isn't very accurate either. freedom to do stuff doesn't make it obligatory for you to do that stuff. for example you have the freedom to vote, chat, sleep, cry, whine etc but you are not required by law to do all that stuff. the fact that there are millions of illiterates doesn't necessarily mean the government is at fault. there could be various other causes for the illiteracy.

Go read some on J&K, where hundreds, if not thousands, were executed by the police and army for money and medals. Switch off that idiot box of yours and read about NE conflicts.

how do you know the people who were executed weren't punished fairly? newspapers told you so? not everything you read is true, you should have known better.

...why shouldn't China execute the corrupt? At least their leaders are not looting...

sure, they must've been corrupt because china executed them. and when it happens in india, its so unjust. "it was done for money and medals"

Besides, I consider it more humane to just execute a person than have him die of hunger slowly.

yeah right, kill him now because he's going to die later anyway!

...I don't praise China for her skyscrapers...

is that why you displayed that photograph?

Development does not translate to economy, skyscrapers, standards of living, Mercedes and BMWs, Honda and Hayabusas, ACs and Plasma screens or other materials of hedonistic pleasure.

okay, perhaps you're right about the vehicles and plasma screens, but standard of living and the economy aren't indicators of development? give me a break!

 

[zyberboy]

And why shouldn't China execute the corrupt? At least their leaders are not looting the national treasury as ours do.

Who said, china do lootes its people wich is considered as the most imp treasure of a country,official figure is 1000 which includes innocent people who are publicly executed in stadiums in china.There are so many incidents similar j&k in china wich is hidden frm rest of the world,and media is not allowed ter.

Military is not the answer to these problems,the people u called illeterate stupids who votes for the corrupted politicians are the same millions peoples tat u said who dies of hunger.Poverty in india is not developed overnight,we need to fight against corruption n so many countless matters which can hinder our way to future, n which becomes a vry complex matter.
What india need is a revolution in education

Many forms of Government have been tried, and will be tried in this world of sin and woe. No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all-wise. Indeed, it has been said that democracy is the worst form of Government,unfortunately we do not know anything better.
-Winston Churchill

 

[kumarmohit]

^ and that means we need to change the thinking of people tooo. People r really getting lazy and don't like to do even simple reading/research. They think whats there in curriculum is sufficient. They don't even bother if it conforms to the facts and that what makes them ignorant. And then they spread their ignorance which well read people term as "rumour" and techies as "FUD"!

Excerpts from NCERT books which potrayed Bhagat singh as terrorist is a good example. Imagine what wud have happened if kids thought of it as a fact.

I wont be surprised if later people start believing to some american phreak who may say that vedas were american creation in early A.Ds!

So for revolutionising education, not only we need to know the latest updates in science and technology but we really also need to think differently, instead of being a stereotype slob, shud have a spirit of questioning and shud know all about Vedas tooo!

Actually I meant to include all this when i said revolution in education. I am well aware of the blunders, the communist historians (historians, hah) have done to our history and will rectify them surely if I ever get the chance.

 

[karnivore]

@ Yam raj

As much thought provoking, as I thought it would be, this thread turned out to be inundated with really inane ideas and arguments, one even going to the extent of suggesting a military rule (sic). I have to say, I am shocked by your understanding of revolution,democracy and freedom.

Firstly it not clear what u mean by "revolution", specially, in the Indian context. U have stated that u r not in favour of armed revolution. But a revolution without arms, ammunition and death, is hard to imagine. If it is so possible, then u r the next Karl Marx.

Secondly, it is not clear if your contempt is against Indian democracy or the democracy as whole. I am tempted to ask u - are u sure u r not confusing governance with electoral process ? I think u r. Cause all the arguments that u have posted r mostly related to governance and very little to electoral process. Governance is the process of running the country and electoral process is all about selecting the right person for the running of the country.

Thirdly, it seems u have a very distorted concept of freedom. Freedom does mean crap on TV. But it also means that u r free to switch it off. Thats the essence of freedom. No one can force feed u, unless u let that happen.

Now lets see if this country needs "revolution". The answer is NO, not in hell. A revolution of the scale, size and contours of Chinese, Vietnamese or Cuban revolution will simply turn the clock, all the way back to Zero. Then, whats the guarantee that those who will seize power will not turn out to be the same as those who, we revolted against. History, unfortunately, is not in favour of the revolutionaries.

Agreed, democracy is not a perfect form of governance. It has its inherent limitations and in a country like ours, where language, culture and perceptions change in every 10 miles that u travel in any direction, it is bound to have some more. Even the great democracies make mistakes, or why else would George.W.Bush be elected for the second time around, but that does not make those democracies redundant.

Indian democracy is not an example of perfect democracy. It is flawed in many ways than one. In fact the sea of corruption, mediocrity, nepotism, narcissism and bureaucracy can make a sane person loose his mind and puke. He will be outraged beyond the edge of reason and might even be gripped by an insatiable desire to initiate a "Revolution", like u. But to seriously think of a revolution to solve all problems, is like chopping your head off to cure a headache.

Some of us are even suggesting a military rule. Obviously, they have never heard of Hitler or ID Armin or Batista or Pinochet or General Giap or Pol Pot, among others. One look at those tyrants and u will know how military rule looks like.

 

[kumarmohit]

@ Yamaraj

Do you know that its not because we are a democracy that we are in trouble. Its because we are a very young democracy that we are having the initial democratic hiccups.

Americans did not become world's mightiest country in the first 100 years of democracy, it took above 2 centuries.

After around 600 years of passing of the Magna Carta when the seed of democracy was sown in England, did the British empire rise to its epitome.

Heck we are just a 57 year old republic and a 60 year old democracy, americans fought a civil war after 100 years of becoming a democracy. Look at Canada, its a democracy for around 100 years, Hong Kong around 99 years. Look at the Republic of China (Taiwan as you know it,) born about the same time as People's Republic of China, lives under extreme military threat from the communist chinese, has a ridiculously less area then PRC, only recognised as a diplomatic level by 24 countries, has enough money to feed entire People's Republic of China for a decade because its always been an open democracy.

Dude we have been a democracy for just like sixty years but it was only in the last two decades that our proper economic development start. We are still the largest democracy in the world. Just give the country some time and we will be able to sort our own affairs.

 

[zyberboy]

Indian democracy is not an example of perfect democracy. It is flawed in many ways than one. In fact the sea of corruption, mediocrity, nepotism, narcissism and bureaucracy can make a sane person loose his mind and puke. He will be outraged beyond the edge of reason and might even be gripped by an insatiable desire to initiate a "Revolution", like u. But to seriously think of a revolution to solve all problems, is like chopping your head off to cure a headache.

You said it man,thats the point.

 

[mediator]

@aliasghark and @karnivore......I request u to please read the debate slowly and carefully...line by line coz when u don't then it only leads to repeations and flames!

Besides, I'm not a communist and neither do I support them. I'll offer them nothing but bullets for eating Indian and singing Chinese. But we need a *strong* government with some geniune will-power and guts to take actions. That's why I keep mentioning China and others.

Post #46

By "revolution", I do not necessarily mean an armed and violent uprising against all.

Post #25

1. Not necessarily a dictator. An ideal government can be a board/panel of a few honest intellectuals like our President, philosophers, top military generals, civil servants and benevolent corporate minds like Narayan Murthi. I don't want a Stalin running this country, either.

Post #8


Now see ur posts

Indian democracy is not an example of perfect democracy. It is flawed in many ways than one. In fact the sea of corruption, mediocrity, nepotism, narcissism and bureaucracy can make a sane person loose his mind and puke. He will be outraged beyond the edge of reason and might even be gripped by an insatiable desire to initiate a "Revolution", like u. But to seriously think of a revolution to solve all problems, is like chopping your head off to cure a headache.

Like said before, revolution doesn't mean u take Ak-47s, act jaahil jehadis and go on a shooting spree! Wasn't the anti-reservation protest a revolution? Why is green revolution called so? Major amendments in education system can aslo be termed as revolution, improving the scope of RnD, researches, explorations can also be termed as revolution in India. Have u thought how many jobs it will increase? Have u thought what can happen due to reservation? Why is it in India that rich is going richer and poor going poorer and that gap increasing everyday? Why is it that suicide by farmers increasing everyday. India's base is its agriculture. Have u forgotten that? And that means farmers r no less than precious jewels to us! Then y such misery? People here r saying India's economy is increasing...then y the heck the poor people r not benefitting from it? They implement reservation, thinking absurdly that it will solve the problem, if its economically advanced then why not help the poor people and support their kids in getting primary education so that they can also get same standards as others? I agree India is becoming a military power, but if u can't stop the infiltration by Bangladeshis who set up encroachments, loot electricity and use free water and even getting voting rights here, if they can't stop terrorists from causing deli blast,srinagar blast, mumbai blast, malegaon blast, killings in JnK, then I think that military procurement is just another waste of money. If u read newspapers daily, then u must be knowing that a few officers got bribe from terrorists who caused Mumbai blasts. Y not hang those officers. Law says helping a terrorist is also a terrorist act. Why is salman khan free and njoying even after killing 3 people on road pavement and animals? Why is feroz khan free even after killing an animal from rare species?

Giving examples from china doesn't mean to implement the china like scenario. But y not implement the things they r good at? They r advocating english education? Ever wondered y? Y not we advocate RnD and scientific research establishments? Their no.1 priority it seems is development! Then y can't we act similarly without having a dictator like govt?
Bihar,East India etc have u gone to these parts? Y is it people from rural India migrate to urban India?

But we have our leadership which feels developing afghanistan, providing free medical treatment to Pakis, Visas to pakis so that more of them can flock here and ignoring bangldeshi situation is fine and better than improving the situation in India first! In this regard y not behave like china and give a death threat to bangladeshi immigrants, beefing up the security and identification process so that no misuse of resources can be done?
Y not behave like China and make police officers excercise regularly, Huh they even make children excercise regularly....well I think at skool level a little excericise is Ok!

There's lot more to say, but in short what I'm saying is y not copy the +ve things from other countries irrespective of the type of government? Its not that we have to rely on political parties after all its we, the people who have "elected" them.....well there r some exceptions like MMS (manmohan singh) who r "selected"....how absurd!! Is this a joke or what?

Heck we are just a 57 year old republic and a 60 year old democracy, americans fought a civil war after 100 years of becoming a democracy. Look at Canada, its a democracy for around 100 years, Hong Kong around 99 years. Look at the Republic of China (Taiwan as you know it,) born about the same time as People's Republic of China, lives under extreme military threat from the communist chinese, has a ridiculously less area then PRC, only recognised as a diplomatic level by 24 countries, has enough money to feed entire People's Republic of China for a decade because its always been an open democracy.

57 years IMHO is a lot for a country to become a developed economy. If they took 100 yrs then it doesn't mean that we take 100 yrs too. If one is stewpid then it doesn't mean other is stewpid too. I think we can do much better then them. Do US and Canada allow ships of other nations do dump their waste in coastal waters? If u don't read news then atleast have converstaion with a merchant navy or a navy officer. U'll be surprised by the enlightenment. Do they (US and Canada) allow citizens to encroach freely, get voting rights, loot electricity and water? Do u know how many stages of police identification checks r there and what punishment u can get if u can't prove ur identity? Y is the standard of living of common man in thailand and singapore better than in India?
So I'm not saying to become next US and implement their culture and increase the no. of rapes etc. What I'm saying is we shud increase the security here too "just like they do"!


I think I'll end here. Please think now. Giving examples from other countries doesn't mean that we become that country. As for China, I too don't want a dictator like government as this is real situation of common man in china!!

 

[thunderbird.117]

@ Yam raj

As much thought provoking, as I thought it would be, this thread turned out to be inundated with really inane ideas and arguments, one even going to the extent of suggesting a military rule (sic). I have to say, I am shocked by your understanding of revolution,democracy and freedom.

Firstly it not clear what u mean by "revolution", specially, in the Indian context. U have stated that u r not in favour of armed revolution. But a revolution without arms, ammunition and death, is hard to imagine. If it is so possible, then u r the next Karl Marx.

Secondly, it is not clear if your contempt is against Indian democracy or the democracy as whole. I am tempted to ask u - are u sure u r not confusing governance with electoral process ? I think u r. Cause all the arguments that u have posted r mostly related to governance and very little to electoral process. Governance is the process of running the country and electoral process is all about selecting the right person for the running of the country.

Thirdly, it seems u have a very distorted concept of freedom. Freedom does mean crap on TV. But it also means that u r free to switch it off. Thats the essence of freedom. No one can force feed u, unless u let that happen.

Now lets see if this country needs "revolution". The answer is NO, not in hell. A revolution of the scale, size and contours of Chinese, Vietnamese or Cuban revolution will simply turn the clock, all the way back to Zero. Then, whats the guarantee that those who will seize power will not turn out to be the same as those who, we revolted against. History, unfortunately, is not in favour of the revolutionaries.

Agreed, democracy is not a perfect form of governance. It has its inherent limitations and in a country like ours, where language, culture and perceptions change in every 10 miles that u travel in any direction, it is bound to have some more. Even the great democracies make mistakes, or why else would George.W.Bush be elected for the second time around, but that does not make those democracies redundant.

Indian democracy is not an example of perfect democracy. It is flawed in many ways than one. In fact the sea of corruption, mediocrity, nepotism, narcissism and bureaucracy can make a sane person loose his mind and puke. He will be outraged beyond the edge of reason and might even be gripped by an insatiable desire to initiate a "Revolution", like u. But to seriously think of a revolution to solve all problems, is like chopping your head off to cure a headache.

Some of us are even suggesting a military rule. Obviously, they have never heard of Hitler or ID Armin or Batista or Pinochet or General Giap or Pol Pot, among others. One look at those tyrants and u will know how military rule looks like.

Military rule need not be sick. Venezula, Thailand are under military control. Military rule need not mean bloodshed and violence. You watch so much of movies.

See here :- *en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_dictatorship

The list of countries that was or is under military rule.

 

[Yamaraj]

india neither needs a dictator, nor is everything perfect.

This is the subject of discussion here.

your definition of freedom isn't very accurate either. freedom to do stuff doesn't make it obligatory for you to do that stuff. for example you have the freedom to vote, chat, sleep, cry, whine etc but you are not required by law to do all that stuff. the fact that there are millions of illiterates doesn't necessarily mean the government is at fault. there could be various other causes for the illiteracy.

When I'm using the word "freedom", it's in a philosophical context - for I despise politics and political definitions.

There are millions of illeterates in this country simply because our governments want them to be that way. Literacy would end caste-religion politics, which is exactly what our great politicians are afraid of. Making it impossible to have a decent education for the poor is the same as making it almost impossible to have firearms, by increasing the price unnecessarily and discouraging people from having licenses.

"Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest." - Mahatma Gandhi

You can see that our governments haven't changed a bit even after our "independence".

how do you know the people who were executed weren't punished fairly? newspapers told you so? not everything you read is true, you should have known better.

sure, they must've been corrupt because china executed them. and when it happens in india, its so unjust. "it was done for money and medals"

Your statements contradict each other, negating everything you said. According to you, it's fair to execute people in "democratic" J&K and NE without giving them a chance of a fair judicial trial. But at the same time, it's unfair for the "communist" China to do the same.

Besides, it appears that you are not very well read. Many officers have been arrested for executing innocents for "money and medal".

yeah right, kill him now because he's going to die later anyway!

Mercy killing a dying suicidal peasant is a hundred times better than letting him die slowly of hunger, and not doing anything about it. Which is exactly what our governments have been doing - nothing.

is that why you displayed that photograph?

It was displayed because most people here are ignorant of the Chinese development, which is mostly because of our media and government. But there isn't much on news channels except for politics, cricket, bollywood and other equally laughable contents.

okay, perhaps you're right about the vehicles and plasma screens, but standard of living and the economy aren't indicators of development? give me a break!

Sure, take a break and think for yourself. If you think that development of a country is only about its economic status in a chart, you're a victim of our modern corporate culture. Economic development is often inversely proportional to ethics, moralily and a sane behaviour.

I despise those who think a nation should be governed like a business. I ridicule the idea of MBAs getting into civil services, or civil servants being trained like business professionals. This is a result of too many businessmen running countries all over the World. Turning this country into a big supermarket would be the biggest mistake ever. And the people will pay the price.

Capitalism turns humans beings into petty objects. You become a consumer, an employee, a voter, a viewer. "To have" replaces "to be" in all contexts of your life. You own, and you are owned. People, who are mesmerized by the materialistic development of countries like US or Japan, often tend to ignore the declining moral, ethical and social values. They conveniently ignore broken families, growing isolated individualism, objectified personalities and violence, depression and insane behaviour on mass level.

I don't want to be a shrinkwrapped "product". Make your own decision.

 

[zyberboy]

Military rule need not be sick. Venezula, Thailand are under military control. Military rule need not mean bloodshed and violence. You watch so much of movies.
See here :- *en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_dictatorship
The list of countries that was or is under military rule.

Below is frm the link u provided to wikipedia,Military is not like your childhood hero superman.

Military regimes usually have little respect for human rights and use whatever means necessary to silence political opponents

 

[thunderbird.117]

Below is frm the link u provided to wikipedia,Military is not like your childhood hero superman.

It is usally. It does not mean all the military will do that.

 

[Yamaraj]

@ Yam raj

As much thought provoking, as I thought it would be, this thread turned out to be inundated with really inane ideas and arguments, one even going to the extent of suggesting a military rule (sic). I have to say, I am shocked by your understanding of revolution,democracy and freedom.

Firstly it not clear what u mean by "revolution", specially, in the Indian context. U have stated that u r not in favour of armed revolution. But a revolution without arms, ammunition and death, is hard to imagine. If it is so possible, then u r the next Karl Marx.

Secondly, it is not clear if your contempt is against Indian democracy or the democracy as whole. I am tempted to ask u - are u sure u r not confusing governance with electoral process ? I think u r. Cause all the arguments that u have posted r mostly related to governance and very little to electoral process. Governance is the process of running the country and electoral process is all about selecting the right person for the running of the country.

Thirdly, it seems u have a very distorted concept of freedom. Freedom does mean crap on TV. But it also means that u r free to switch it off. Thats the essence of freedom. No one can force feed u, unless u let that happen.

I suppose many have felt the "shock" you're talking about. But that's because people like you are often institutionalized to the extent that they stop thinking out of their black box. Democracy is not the only form of a good governance. And it often has so many dependencies, it's highly unlikely for a country like India to practically resolve them. How many, in your opinion, are capable of thinking rationally before casting their vote? As I've mentioned before, how many read political menifesto of all the parties? And how many parties follow their own menifesto after forming the government?

I'm not opposed to the idea of an armed revolution. When it becomes clear that a few powerful have hijacked the entire system and use it for their benefit, a peaceful procession doesn't make any sense. Do you really think it's possible to create a new political party today, and convince enough people to think before voting, and still manage to form a government even in a hundred years? If you do - you're naive enough to.

Democracy create chaos and disorder. There is a reason why there is no democracy in military services across the world. There is a reason why children in schools are not asked to vote whether they would like to study or play, in the middle of their maths class.

I have been talking about both the electoral process and governance. You should really read before posting. By the way, are you trying to insist that it's possible to have good governance even if the flawed electoral process selects the wrong candidates?

Sure, you can switch your TV off. But a formed government cannot be undone. An elected murderer minister cannot be recalled.

Now lets see if this country needs "revolution". The answer is NO, not in hell. A revolution of the scale, size and contours of Chinese, Vietnamese or Cuban revolution will simply turn the clock, all the way back to Zero. Then, whats the guarantee that those who will seize power will not turn out to be the same as those who, we revolted against. History, unfortunately, is not in favour of the revolutionaries.

If you think this country needs no revolution - that's your personal opinion. Why can't we have a revolution "of the scale, size and contours" of India? Since this is neither China, nor Cuba - it makes no sense in comparing apples to oranges.

What's the guarantee that Indian democratic system will clean itself, on its own? From what I see, things are only getting worse every five years.

History has also never been in favor of those who sit quietly on their arses and hope for a divine intervention. Wake up!

Agreed, democracy is not a perfect form of governance. It has its inherent limitations and in a country like ours, where language, culture and perceptions change in every 10 miles that u travel in any direction, it is bound to have some more. Even the great democracies make mistakes, or why else would George.W.Bush be elected for the second time around, but that does not make those democracies redundant.

Indian democracy is not an example of perfect democracy. It is flawed in many ways than one. In fact the sea of corruption, mediocrity, nepotism, narcissism and bureaucracy can make a sane person loose his mind and puke. He will be outraged beyond the edge of reason and might even be gripped by an insatiable desire to initiate a "Revolution", like u. But to seriously think of a revolution to solve all problems, is like chopping your head off to cure a headache.

Democracy is just another type of governance. There is nothing "great" about it, particularly in countries like India, where majority is illeterate but yet have a say in electoral process and even gets to elect the candidates.

Some of us are even suggesting a military rule. Obviously, they have never heard of Hitler or ID Armin or Batista or Pinochet or General Giap or Pol Pot, among others. One look at those tyrants and u will know how military rule looks like.

Yours is the fear of unknown, and for unfair reasons. Why doesn't the French revolution come to your mind, or the American revolution which drove British out? If a violent revolution is such a bad thing, then everything in 1857 was just a bunch of lunatics acting on their violent urges to kill people?

Revolution is seldom beautiful, but it brings required reforms in a short period of time.

Many forms of Government have been tried, and will be tried in this world of sin and woe. No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all-wise. Indeed, it has been said that democracy is the worst form of Government,unfortunately we do not know anything better.
-Winston Churchill

"The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter."
- Winston Churchill

"Democracy substitutes election by the incompetent many for appointment by the corrupt few."
- George Bernard Shaw

"The great thing about democracy is that it gives every voter a chance to do something stupid."
- Art Spander

 

[zyberboy]

Revolution is seldom beautiful, but it brings required reforms in a short period of time.

Yeah,brings reforms to make way to next revolution and the cycle continues

"The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter."
- Winston Churchill

"Democracy substitutes election by the incompetent many for appointment by the corrupt few."
- George Bernard Shaw

"The great thing about democracy is that it gives every voter a chance to do something stupid."
- Art Spander

Do u know anything better, r u the next nobel prize nominee

 

[Yamaraj]

Do u know anything better, r u the next nobel prize nominee

Your being offensive is a clear indication that you are short of thoughts, ideas and politeness.

Be humble!

 

[karnivore]

@ mediator

Post #46
Post #25
Post #8
quote]

Thats why i asked if revolution without arms, ammunition and bloodshed is possible.

Like said before, revolution doesn't mean u take Ak-47s, act jaahil jehadis and go on a shooting spree! Wasn't the anti-reservation protest a revolution? Why is green revolution called so? Major amendments in education system can aslo be termed as revolution, improving the scope of RnD, researches, explorations can also be termed as revolution in India

U hav absolutely no idea about what revolution is all about. A mass movement can't be
termed as "Revolution". "Green revolution" is a major misnomer. It happened only in the
NW India and is a term used to mean bumper crop harvest and nothing else. As with
amendments in education system,improving the scope of RnD, researches, explorations,
are all matters of governance. Only an imbecile will call all of these revolution.

Why is it in India that rich is going richer and poor going poorer and that gap increasing everyday? Why is it that suicide by farmers increasing everyday.

This is a major concern and though many would say that it is the price of so called
development, i do feel its an issue that needs to be addressed with utmost sincerity.

India's base is its agriculture. Have u forgotten that? And that means farmers r no less than precious jewels to us!

Please, this is not a fact that merits chest thumping. Agriculture in developed
countries contribute not more than 5% of GDP. In fact declining contribution from
agriculture is in many ways a sign of good economy, provided, there is a proper system
of rehabilitation of farmers. What u guys r conveniently forgetting is that, for about
40 odd yrs we practiced a strange brand of Socialism and its been just about 17 yrs
that we have started having an open economy. We r still in the process of undoing the
wrongs of those 40 yrs.

They implement reservation, thinking absurdly that it will solve the problem, if its economically advanced then why not help the poor people and support their kids in getting primary education so that they can also get same standards as others?

I agree, that reservation should be based on economics and not on caste.

I agree India is becoming a military power, but if u can't stop the infiltration by Bangladeshis who set up encroachments, loot electricity and use free water and even getting voting rights here, if they can't stop terrorists from causing deli blast,srinagar blast, mumbai blast, malegaon blast, killings in JnK, then I think that military procurement is just another waste of money. If u read newspapers daily, then u must be knowing that a few officers got bribe from terrorists who caused Mumbai blasts.

Dude, its a law & order problem and not something that army can do much about. Military
does not procure to fight terrorists but to defend from foreign aggression. What the
terrorists want, and so do u, is the military to do the policing job, and break the
morale and dilute army presence in key areas. As with infiltration, it is virtually
impossible to stop. Even the mighty Americans can't prevent infiltration from Mexico or
Cuba. You can well imagine where we stand.

thunderbird

Military rule need not be sick. Venezula, Thailand are under military control. Military rule need not mean bloodshed and violence

Venezula has a democratically elected president in Hugo Chavez. Military rule is always bloody.

@ Yamraj

Democracy is not the only form of a good governance

Please name another.

Democracy create chaos and disorder. There is a reason why there is no democracy in military services across the world. There is a reason why children in schools are not asked to vote whether they would like to study or play, in the middle of their maths class.

Man i do not know what to say to this. It is difficult to reason with an unreasonable mind.

But a formed government cannot be undone. An elected murderer minister cannot be recalled

Yes it can be done after a period of 5 yrs. In case of dictatorship, NEVER.

Why can't we have a revolution "of the scale, size and contours" of India? Since this is neither China, nor Cuba - it makes no sense in comparing apples to oranges.

Man, this is sick. If u have to get an idea of something you must have a basis. China, Vietnam and Cuba give us that. Any revolution in India will of course be of the scale, size and contours of India, provided it happens. Till then how do you propose to get a measure of what to expect.

Yours is the fear of unknown, and for unfair reasons. Why doesn't the French revolution come to your mind, or the American revolution which drove British out? If a violent revolution is such a bad thing, then everything in 1857 was just a bunch of lunatics acting on their violent urges to kill people?

Get your facts right first. What followed French Revolution is termed by historians as "The Reign of Terror". American revolution was against foreign oppressors, not against their own men. Revolution of 1857, is something which is still open to long debates.

"The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter."
- Winston Churchill

"Democracy substitutes election by the incompetent many for appointment by the corrupt few."
- George Bernard Shaw

"The great thing about democracy is that it gives every voter a chance to do something stupid."
- Art Spander

Yet all these people flourished under democracy and virtually no one wanted their own democracies to turn into dictatorships.

 

[mediator]

U hav absolutely no idea about what revolution is all about.

U did a Ph.D on revolution? So please elaborate without giving any links, in ur own words, in some 250 words about what really revolution is!!

A mass movement can't be
termed as "Revolution". "Green revolution" is a major misnomer. It happened only in the
NW India and is a term used to mean bumper crop harvest and nothing else. As with
amendments in education system,improving the scope of RnD, researches, explorations,
are all matters of governance. Only an imbecile will call all of these revolution.

Thanx for the abuse. People who generally r out of words go personal. Shud I assume u have nuthin to speak now? Instead of telling that this is not revolution, u cud have enlightened here about ur Ph.D knowledge! U think earth revolving around SUn is revolution then? Please don't tell next that armed actions by civilians is the only form of revolution!
WHat about non-violence movement by Gandhiji that unified the whole of India? I won't be surprised if u disagree here too!

And please try to be civil!

This is a major concern and though many would say that it is the price of so called
development, i do feel its an issue that needs to be addressed with utmost sincerity.

And who do u think will address these? Politicians like they did in the past 50+ years?

Please, this is not a fact that merits chest thumping. Agriculture in developed
countries contribute not more than 5% of GDP. In fact declining contribution from
agriculture is in many ways a sign of good economy, provided, there is a proper system
of rehabilitation of farmers. What u guys r conveniently forgetting is that, for about
40 odd yrs we practiced a strange brand of Socialism and its been just about 17 yrs
that we have started having an open economy. We r still in the process of undoing the
wrongs of those 40 yrs.

Read!! It will give u some idea!!

Agriculture in India is one of the most prominent sectors in its economy. Agriculture and allied sectors like forestry, logging and fishing accounted for 18.6% of the GDP in 2005 and employed 60% of the country's population[1]. It accounts for 8.56 % of India’s exports. About 43 % of India's geographical area is used for agricultural activity. Despite a steady decline of its share in the GDP, agriculture is still the largest economic sector and plays a significant role in the overall socio-economic development of India.

So Mr.Professor we r not interested in ur fake Ph.D knowledge or in ur expert opinions. So instead of just criticising, making fun of feloow digit members like a stereotype, ignorant basher ...please do some research before making ur next post. So do u want to have a civil discussion or ur mockery? Take ur pic!!

It seems from ur post that u want minimum farming practises in India!! How absurd!

Dude, its a law & order problem and not something that army can do much about. Military
does not procure to fight terrorists but to defend from foreign aggression. What the
terrorists want, and so do u, is the military to do the policing job, and break the
morale and dilute army presence in key areas. As with infiltration, it is virtually
impossible to stop. Even the mighty Americans can't prevent infiltration from Mexico or
Cuba. You can well imagine where we stand.

This explains how well read u r! So y is the military called when there is civil unrest and y r the black cat commandos deployed when a whole skool is taken hostage like in Beslan? Shudn't the fat, bribe hungry police officers be deployed there? Y aren't they deployed? Why is th army sent for rescue missions y not police? Please do some reading now!!
Now for ur theory, y r bangladeshis still there n increasing in numbers in India? Shudn't the govt n police be doing anything about it? Y do terrorists still cross borders? U talk about foreign agression. Isn't porxy war a foreign aggression?
And please, if ur "mighty americans" r that stewpid then it doesn't implies that we act like them and therefore shud forget the matter!

And please try to be civil, else it only shows ur ignorance!

 

[thunderbird.117]

@ mediator

Post #46
Post #25
Post #8
quote]

Venezula has a democratically elected president in Hugo Chavez. Military rule is always bloody.

He was direct elected on second that is april 13 2002 and present before that he was in military he has staged a military coup to overthrown the before government. For more information read here :- *en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugo_Chávez. Also iam not talking about a miltary rule at all. Only the indian military can remove the present government no civilians can do it. The politican of india will not listen to them(unarmed people).

 

[karnivore]

U did a Ph.D on revolution? So please elaborate without giving any links, in ur own words, in some 250 words about what really revolution is!!

Read "The State and Revolution" by V.I.Lenin. This will tell u whys, whens and whats of revolution. First digest this book, i will keep recommending u other books from time to time.

WHat about non-violence movement by Gandhiji that unified the whole of India?

I was waiting for this. Name one historian, one reference, one source that says Gandhi's non-violent movement was a "Revolution". Man ignorance, can really be bliss.

It will give u some idea!!

Quote:
Agriculture in India is one of the most prominent sectors in its economy. Agriculture and allied sectors like forestry, logging and fishing accounted for 18.6% of the GDP in 2005 and employed 60% of the country's population[1]. It accounts for 8.56 % of India’s exports. About 43 % of India's geographical area is used for agricultural activity. Despite a steady decline of its share in the GDP, agriculture is still the largest economic sector and plays a significant role in the overall socio-economic development of India.

Precisely my point. We depend heavily on agriculture, which is a hindrance to growth. We still depend on climate for a good produce, and the year in which we have good monsoon, we have good produce and hence a healthy GDP growth rate. This is anything but a matter of pride.

This explains how well read u r! So y is the military called when there is civil unrest and y r the black cat commandos deployed when a whole skool is taken hostage like in Beslan? Shudn't the fat, bribe hungry police officers be deployed there? Y aren't they deployed? Why is th army sent for rescue missions y not police? Please do some reading now!!

That, again, is my point. If u have to involve military in every law and order problem, it means your police is not well equipped. Beslan, and situations like that are unique ones which require special tactics. Thats why US has SWATs who are the civil version of their military commandos. Thats why we have NSGs. This relieves the military of lot of pressure. I am sure u don't have an army man in your family to consult. Just talk to one of them and u will realize, how the army hate to do the police job. Its simply not their job.
About your jab at me knowing everything, let me just say that i was born, brought up and educated in Kolkata. I used to be an active member of a political outfit, which believed in "revolution". U will find it hard to believe that i do have some experience of the electoral process.

 

[Yamaraj]

Also iam not talking about a miltary rule at all. Only the indian military can remove the present government no civilians can do it. The politican of india will not listen to them(unarmed people).

This is exactly what we've been talking about. But the India-is-oh-so-perfect lobby doesn't want to read or understand anything.