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China vs India

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abhijangda

Padawan
P0rn is completely banned in China. Even their governement threatened Google to ban their search engine and it's very strict. They have a zero-tolerance policy against it. But in India - even if p0rn is illegal, the Indian government is not taking enough steps to curb it completely.

So in this case India falls behind China.
Oh yes that's the reason why we should be carefull while opening the sites. Who knows what lies ahead. The actual reason of their development is that the chinese goverment i.e. dictatorship gov. is strict and hence they have less corruption than India hence they are ahead of us.
 

Aberforth

The Internationalist
1. Indian Army is one of the best army in the world. Our Army's training is such good that even other countries are also using same training technique.
Subjective. The fact that the Kargil war dragged on for so long and we lost so many of our jawans makes me ponder whether to believe this one...(much as I wish I could).

Indian Airforce is also one of the best known airforce in the world. We have Sukoi aircrafts which are the best aircrafts in the world.
Sukhoi Su-30s are Russian aircrafts. The Indian versions have Israeli equipments in them. And I wouldn't call an Su the "best aircraft in the world". Formidable yes, best no.

India is a paece loving country which hasn't attack any other country for more than 200 yrs.
Thats because we were too busy killing and fighting amongst ourselves. The Sikh riots, Nellis massacre, Gujarat pogrom, Christian massacres in Karnataka and Orissa, etc. etc.

Here we have all the rights which one must have. We can choose our leaders which we want. But in China there is dictatorship who knows when a Hitler type person becomes dictator.
All of which sounds good on paper but thats just that - a paper tiger. In reality, India is a country of vote rigging, votebank manipulation, communal riots, political massacres and police brutality. A truely functional anarchy.

China also follows their expanding policy they have taken control over Tibet.
China has claims over Tibet the same way our governments lay claim over Northeastern India.

Heck its so good that its predicted to give USA air superiority for 40 years!!
In the 1990s F-117 "stealth" was predicted to be 'invincible' for decades to come. The Kosovo war proved the predictors wrong. If the Serbs with their ancient radars and rockets could down the 'invincible' F-117, I would trust my life on an IAF pilot in a Sukhoi over an F-22 Raptor.

Mathemeticians like Ramanujam devloped many theorems.
...in United Kingdom. What did this genius get in India? Forced early marriage, years in poverty and finally a tuberculosis that ultimately consumed him. If it were not for Thomas Hardy, Ramanujan would have died a nobody's death.

Also Indians are said to be most intelligent persons in the world.
And yet we are among the worst in spotting talent. We are more impressed by degree certificates of an 'old world' Anglo-Saxon education than real intellect.
 

chesss

mera kutch nahi ho sakta
The last 2 comments weren't by me btw
In the 1990s F-117 "stealth" was predicted to be 'invincible' for decades to come. The Kosovo war proved the predictors wrong. If the Serbs with their ancient radars and rockets could down the 'invincible' F-117, I would trust my life on an IAF pilot in a Sukhoi over an F-22 Raptor.
dude in total in all its 2 decade life only 1 single f-117 was lost in combat! i wld that is as good as invincible.
Edit: And look here for a f-22 vs 30MKI . Note how the sukhois lost to f-15 in an dogfight exercise.
 
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nix

Senior Member
China has claims over Tibet the same way our governments lay claim over Northeastern India..

The British annexed those areas. I think it was a good move because I don't they would been able to defend themselves from china.
 

Aberforth

The Internationalist
dude in total in all its 2 decade life only 1 single f-117 was lost in combat! i wld that is as good as invincible.
Two F-117s actually, not one. All in a span of a week, against a single opponent, who by no means is a military might.

If you consider that a proof of the F-117s 'invincibility' then I could say the same for IAF's Su-30 MKIs and Mirage-2000s. The Mirage-2000 has been operational for 2 decades and yet we didn't have a single combat loss. The same goes for Su-30s, for a decade long operational history. This inspite of the fact that the Mirage-2000 was used against Pakistan in 1999, a more formidable military opponent than Serbia was in 1996.

... for a f-22 vs 30MKI . Note how the sukhois lost to f-15 in an dogfight exercise.
It wasn't an exercise between Su-30 and F-15, rather an exercise between USAF and IAF. Give these F-15s or even the F-22s to PAF during an Indo-Pak war and the only way the Pakistanis can prevent them from falling like meteorites would be to keep them grounded.

In any case, the results of Cope India exercise doesn't prove the F-22's 'invincibility'. If I were to defend against the F-22, I'd put my money on the S-300s or 400s, backed by Phased Array Radars and a couple of AWACs. I'd get close to 100% results minus the exhorbitant costs of jet-A fuel and pilot training.

I think it was a good move because I don't they would been able to defend themselves from china.
Why would they need defending from China anyway?
 

Liverpool_fan

Sami Hyypiä, LFC legend
Subjective. The fact that the Kargil war dragged on for so long and we lost so many of our jawans makes me ponder whether to believe this one...(much as I wish I could).


Sukhoi Su-30s are Russian aircrafts. The Indian versions have Israeli equipments in them. And I wouldn't call an Su the "best aircraft in the world". Formidable yes, best no.


Thats because we were too busy killing and fighting amongst ourselves. The Sikh riots, Nellis massacre, Gujarat pogrom, Christian massacres in Karnataka and Orissa, etc. etc.


All of which sounds good on paper but thats just that - a paper tiger. In reality, India is a country of vote rigging, votebank manipulation, communal riots, political massacres and police brutality. A truely functional anarchy.


China has claims over Tibet the same way our governments lay claim over Northeastern India.


In the 1990s F-117 "stealth" was predicted to be 'invincible' for decades to come. The Kosovo war proved the predictors wrong. If the Serbs with their ancient radars and rockets could down the 'invincible' F-117, I would trust my life on an IAF pilot in a Sukhoi over an F-22 Raptor.


...in United Kingdom. What did this genius get in India? Forced early marriage, years in poverty and finally a tuberculosis that ultimately consumed him. If it were not for Thomas Hardy, Ramanujan would have died a nobody's death.


And yet we are among the worst in spotting talent. We are more impressed by degree certificates of an 'old world' Anglo-Saxon education than real intellect.
Very Well Said.
 

The_Devil_Himself

die blizzard die! D3?
communism is destined to fail, something which looks perfect in theory, but fails invariably because apparantly humans are humans, and they cannot be herded like animals.

Not saying India is perfect or anything, it is far from being perfect but I would prefer living in Indian slums than beijing skyscrapers where there is no such thing as freedom.

Funny people talk so much ****, when we know how many people gave their lives for this 'freedom', guess it seems important when we don't have it.Now all take it for granted.bleh.

And I guess everybody knows about how China helped pakistan attain nuclear power status, even when they know pakistan is a rogue state just to weaken India's position in the sub-continent.China and India aren't even direct competitors.Guess whos reaping what they sowed, the quighar riots, and now qaeda declaring to avenge for the muslims killed there.Mad men with nukes, yea, world gotta love that ****.

and thank to all the politicians who people bash so much, for going ahead with the nuclear testings back in the day without caring for the bans and threats by western world.I wouldn't even think of India without nukes at this stage.


oh and BTW, I have nothing against chinese people, they are just like us.I play a lot on their online game servers,:p.
 

nix

Senior Member
@aberforth: China at one time had an aggressive expansionist policy and they would have probably occupied North East states if they had not been a part of india. probably. just like they did to tibet.

@the_devil_himself: I think the chinese people have got used to the communist government. I think many of them accept it. China is better equipped to deal with terrorism than any other democracy.

They don't deal softly with terrorists.
they can do what they want and dare the world to mess with them. Al qaida is harming USA because they fight with one arm tied to their back. They dont have waterboarding debates in china.

whats the use of india having nukes? smaller and weaker countries still mess with us.
 

The_Devil_Himself

die blizzard die! D3?
@the_devil_himself: I think the chinese people have got used to the communist government. I think many of them accept it. China is better equipped to deal with terrorism than any other democracy.
Nobody, atleast not humans, can get used to communism,it is the very nature of human beings, and this is what separates from us from gazillion other species inhabiting this earth, right?Eventually the bubble is gonna burst, and lemme tell you, it will be very ugly not only for china but for the whole world and especially us.

whats the use of india having nukes? smaller and weaker countries still mess with us.
exactly what you said, stopping more powerful foes to go on a full-fledged offensive.This is the protection these nukes give.India could have demolished pakistan but not without get a bloody nose herself, exactly whats preventing china(or any other country for example) from attacking India(talking in theoretical terms here, I can't think of one reason of a war between the two nations tbh), only that India is well endowed in nukes and it won't be just a bloody nose.It also puts fear in the minds of rogue states to not push the limits too far.Nukes are a boon to a peaceful antion, contrary to what was thought about them initially.So the final question which comes is is the offensive worth the damages that will ultimately done?And the answer is invariably NO.

we are living in a dangerous world, my friend.I suggest reading about MAD(mutual assured destruction) on wiki or something.
 

Aberforth

The Internationalist
@aberforth: China at one time had an aggressive expansionist policy and they would have probably occupied North East states if they had not been a part of india. probably. just like they did to tibet.
Looks like you didn't get my point. What difference would it have made if the Northeast was a part of China rather than India? A little better perhaps, economically and politically. The situation in Tibet even now is a lot better than it is in AFSPA North-Eastern India.

whats the use of india having nukes? smaller and weaker countries still mess with us.
..because we are a democracy. A democratic government cares more about its political chances and its finances than the welfare of the nation. Wimping out to Sri Lanka or Bangladesh is a lot cheaper than using political and military muscle to keep their aggression in check.

Eventually the bubble is gonna burst, and lemme tell you, it will be very ugly not only for china but for the whole world and especially us.
We have been hearing that for over 50 years and the said 'bubble burst' never came. In fact, many pro-democratic agencies predicted a slowdown in China's economic growth by 2008 against India. But it went the other way.
 

dips_view

Broken In
originally posted by aberforth....
.because we are a democracy. A democratic government cares more about its political chances and its finances than the welfare of the nation. Wimping out to Sri Lanka or Bangladesh is a lot cheaper than using political and military muscle to keep their aggression in check.
for ur information .. once upon a time (pseudo) democratic country(u.s) used nuclear weapon to against another (pseudo) democratic country (japan) not once but twice.
US also threatened to use it again during 1) Korean war 2)Cuba 3)Vietnam 4)Soviet Union 5)Albania and a long list...:x


originally posted by devil himself.......
And I guess everybody knows about how China helped pakistan attain nuclear power status, even when they know pakistan is a rogue state just to weaken India's position in the sub-continent.China and India aren't even direct competitors.Guess whos reaping what they sowed, the quighar riots, and now qaeda declaring to avenge for the muslims killed there.Mad men with nukes, yea, world gotta love that ****.
do you hear about Dr. Abdul Qadeer Khan?? Dr. Khan is a German-trained metallurgist.who brought with him knowledge of gas centrifuge technologies that he had acquired through his position at the classified URENCO uranium enrichment plant in the Netherlands. Dr. Khan also reportedly brought with him stolen uranium enrichment technologies from Europe. He was put in charge of building, equipping and operating Pakistan's Kahuta facility, which was established in 1976. Under Khan's direction, Pakistan employed an extensive clandestine network in order to obtain the necessary materials and technology for its developing uranium enrichment capabilities.
u dont need to believe me..please search Wikipedia and any authentic site of your choice....
may be CNN or CIA...
link: http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/asiapcf/02/04/pakistan.nuclear.timeline.reut/

originally posted by devil himself.......
communism is destined to fail, something which looks perfect in theory, but fails invariably because apparantly humans are humans, and they cannot be herded like animals.
and last .... communism does not believe in destiny.. it believes in people.. it believes in peoples democracy..:smile:
LIBERTY,EQUALITY,FRATERNITY FOR THE PEOPLE BY THE PEOPLE OF THE PEOPLE is the motto of communism.

 

nix

Senior Member
Looks like you didn't get my point. What difference would it have made if the Northeast was a part of China rather than India? A little better perhaps, economically and politically. The situation in Tibet even now is a lot better than it is in AFSPA North-Eastern India.

I think it would have been bad for their culture. It is said that han chinese immigration is encouraged by chinese govt in minority areas. it seems that the han chinese population has increased from <10% around 50 years ago in xinjiang to around 40 % now. dalai lama has also accused of tibetan culture being under threat due to han immigration
http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/world/archives/2009/05/12/2003443331

..because we are a democracy. A democratic government cares more about its political chances and its finances than the welfare of the nation.

exactly
 

The_Devil_Himself

die blizzard die! D3?
noob post tbh but whatever.

for ur information .. once upon a time (pseudo) democratic country(u.s) used nuclear weapon to against another (pseudo) democratic country (japan) not once but twice.
US also threatened to use it again during 1) Korean war 2)Cuba 3)Vietnam 4)Soviet Union 5)Albania and a long list...:x
when US used the weapon, it was the sole country in the world to have it ffs, and it was primarily to claim world dominance, otherwise japan was already lost.read some history and use some logic perhaps?



do you hear about Dr. Abdul Qadeer Khan?? Dr. Khan is a German-trained metallurgist.who brought with him knowledge of gas centrifuge technologies that he had acquired through his position at the classified URENCO uranium enrichment plant in the Netherlands. Dr. Khan also reportedly brought with him stolen uranium enrichment technologies from Europe. He was put in charge of building, equipping and operating Pakistan's Kahuta facility, which was established in 1976. Under Khan's direction, Pakistan employed an extensive clandestine network in order to obtain the necessary materials and technology for its developing uranium enrichment capabilities.
u dont need to believe me..please search Wikipedia and any authentic site of your choice...
you read wiki please http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pakistan_and_weapons_of_mass_destruction#Foreign_assistance go read pls, china was the country which tested nukes on behalf of pakistan in 1980s.

and last .... communism does not believe in destiny.. it believes in people.. it believes in peoples democracy..:smile:
LIBERTY,EQUALITY,FRATERNITY FOR THE PEOPLE BY THE PEOPLE OF THE PEOPLE is the motto of communism.
you need to read more.

Anyone supporting communism over democracy is too naive to argue with anyways.
Like I said, people take too much for granted, way too much.
 

Aberforth

The Internationalist
Under Khan's direction, Pakistan employed an extensive clandestine network in order to obtain the necessary materials and technology for its developing uranium enrichment capabilities.
I don't think you'd be able to get your point across, especially since we Indians are a nation of easily gullible people. The majority of Indians are still quite willing to suck up to the US and gobble up media myths against China. Few, if any, are willing to read back up on history to verify anything. How many Indians know about US help to Pakistan for the last 60 years (and continuing)? How many Indians know that the ONLY country that backed India on its integration of Kashmir was USSR? How many Indians know that the US shipped an armed nuclear warship to the Bay of Bengal during the Bangladesh Liberation War of 1971?

It is said that han chinese immigration is encouraged by chinese govt in minority areas.
How different is it from present day North East? Most of the government jobs, businesses and practically every economic activity is in the hands of immigrant North Indians. The locals are left with no option but menial jobs, politics, extortion or militancy. Why look at Xian when it is a lot worse in Manipur, Assam, Nagaland, Arunachal Pradesh or Mizoram?

Anyone supporting communism over democracy is too naive to argue with anyways.
Rather, I think anyone who has a balanced view of political systems is a thinker. Like Albert Einstein for example, who understood communism objectively. You'd have to be either a genius or a fool to call him naive.

There are some situations where communism scores over democracy and some where democracy scores over communism. Democracy suits wealthy nations, where people have full stomachs and actually care about having their opinions heard. They already have their basic subsistence and a stable life, which puts them in a better position to decide their governance.

In a poor country like India, 'free speech' and 'democracy' are the easiest and cheapest things that a government can provide. It costs less to the government than providing tangible public benefits like better infrastructure or living standards. Just give democracy and the responsibility for a better governance gets shifted to the people (who often are too busy struggling for livelihood to take an active part in government). Give democracy and its ideals to the people, and they'll believe that they have it better than other countries, even if the reality is otherwise.

The Chinese administration hands death sentence to those who taint and adulterate food products while Indian adulterers not only walk free, but continue this act with impunity after a few hands have been adequately greased. After all, poisoned adulterated food in a democratic country is better than quality controlled food in a communist country.
 

The_Devil_Himself

die blizzard die! D3?
^^quote the names correctly ffs.

and like I said its better to be a free cow in the open, which might mean she may not get enough food\water sometimes than to be put in chains, fed with good quality food, kept in air conditioned shelters with enough water for they can me milked by captors.I hope you get my point.

Multiparty democratic system with all its drawbacks is the best, and this is supported by humans long history of experimenting with politics.Communism may seem perfect in theory, but it is destined to fail eventually.


and India is NOT a poor country, we are almost self sufficient.There are enough jobs, people who want to work has work to do.

enough of this BS, neither US nor china is a friendly country, each one is pursuing its own agendas, but China is a far more dangerous country, its like a bomb which is going to explode.
 

Aberforth

The Internationalist
^^quote the names correctly ffs.[/quotes]
My apologies, I'll try to.

and like I said its better to be a free cow in the open, which might mean she may not get enough food\water sometimes than to be put in chains, fed with good quality food, kept in air conditioned shelters with enough water for they can me milked by captors.I hope you get my point.
It is better to be a milch domestic cow than to be a 'free cow' left to fend for itself in a drought. It is always cheaper for an owner to let the cow loose 'to feed itself' than feed it himself.

Multiparty democratic system with all its drawbacks is the best, and this is supported by humans long history of experimenting with politics.Communism may seem perfect in theory, but it is destined to fail eventually.
Name a single poor country which significantly improved its economy and living standards, consistently over a period of three election terms, after having converted to a democracy. Democracy is good in practice for wealthy countries, not so much for poor countries.

and India is NOT a poor country, we are almost self sufficient.There are enough jobs, people who want to work has work to do.
Denial isn't the best medicine. India IS a poor country, whether its pleasant to admit it or not. Almost all of our better paying jobs come from Americans, which is hardly what I'd call 'self sufficient'. There aren't enough jobs for people in India, even though Indians are willing to slog hard for jobs that pay dirt.

Where in the world would you find a qualified engineer willing to work 8-10 hours a day for a paycheck of less than 400 dollars a month? Where in the world would you find millions of young professionals, spending sleepless nights catering politely to rude and insulting American customers, for less than 300 dollars a month?

enough of this BS, neither US nor china is a friendly country, each one is pursuing its own agendas, but China is a far more dangerous country, its like a bomb which is going to explode.
China is a less of a danger to us, because we already see it as an enemy and are cautious of it. US is more dangerous because it has sweet talked us into subservience to its political interests, even though it is not going to do us any long term good.

When it comes to Pakistan, China is simply being a businessman. They don't hand out doles, they just sell products for which Pakistan pays. If Pakistan wasn't our enemy, we would have done it too, as long as they paid us. It would have been regardless of who Pakistan is fighting at the time. It is the US which is the problem here, what with paying billions of dollars every year and generous military 'upgrades' to Pakistan.

At present, the US is using India to counterbalance China and we Indians are falling for it - hook, line and sinker. In retrospect, I think we deserve it since we refuse to learn anything worth learning from history.
 

abhijangda

Padawan
hmmmm...... so a long discussion here. Every thing has its advantages and disadvantages. Democracy is not for poor or rich people. It is for the country which is intelligent. In which people and think what they want to do and what not. But communism for that in which people are not so intelligent. India is not a poor country but it is a self sufficient country.
Just the problem is of democracy. In this country nearly 26% of people are poor. We requires immediate reforms and help from govt. But in democracy the procedures and norms to pass a bill has to be followed that's not the case with communism or dictatorship.
But here we are having one advantage of being free to move,live, express our views, we have rights but it's not in China. There people are revolting against Govt. what i think that there must democracy with communism and that too with a good leader like Pandit Nehru or our PM Manmohan Singh. This will be better for our country at this time.

Also it will be better not to fight against each other instead think of the stps we must take to tackle all these disputes.
 
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