Camera talk...

Discussion in 'Cameras and camcorders' started by nac, Aug 14, 2012.

  1. izzikio_rage

    izzikio_rage Well-Known Member

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    This is an awesome in depth discussion. Bahut time baad. Nac, best of luck on the new flash (and cam too)

    Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using Tapatalk
     
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    nac

    nac Well-Known Member

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    Thanks guys.

    Back from the wedding. Things didn't go as expected or wanted to be. But it's still a good experience for me, I really thank him for the opportunity.

    I am tired after two day wedding shoot, just up from 4-hour sleep. I share my experience later this week.

    As for the photos, I don't expect much. He asked for some good 40-50 photos for the album when he told me about the job, now I am keeping my fingers crossed. Would I get 50 print worthy photographs? I will know in a week I guess.
     
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    nac

    nac Well-Known Member

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    Reached the wedding hall 3 hrs early, pulled the camera and started testing how high ISO I can go without using flash. I had to go upto 3200 to get handheld shot with no camera shake. With 50mm, I can stay within ISO 1600. But other photographer wanted it, so I was left with 100mm and 85mm.

    Team arrived after an hour and started setting up. Four lights with umbrella (two in front and two in back) and 2 ETTL flash mounted with umbrella. And I got ETTL compatible flash to mount on the camera.

    7D M2 with 85 f/1.8 and flash mounted on the camera, it's heavy. I was the only one having on camera flash, others relied on the lights and flash set up around the stage. When we were outdoor shooting the bride entering, one of the photographer asked for the flash. The entire shoot, I shot with no flash light. After an hour or so, candid photographer swapped the gear and now I am with 5D M3 and 70-200 f/2.8 IS. Oh boy!!! I thought 7D setup was heavy, this 5D setup is breaking my wrists. Day ended, I didn't expect I would take this many shots in one session. Went to bed late, couldn't sleep. I slept for an hour or so and it's time to get up.

    It's early morning muhurtam (wedding), got ready by 5.15am. Decided to go full manual as things last night was not okay. In Av mode and spot metering, I was getting some under/over exposure. After all I am not gonna use flash, and light is gonna be the same. So set custom modes for stage, and guest seating area under c1 and c2. Started with 7D and 85mm, but I was asked to go wide and cover from back during muhurtam, so picked 18-135. I was covering from back, I don't know what he thought (changed his mind or thought I couldn't handle it) and asked me to take 70-200 and he decided to cover from back with 24-105. Now I am with 7D and 70-200 combo. I couldn't take it slow, couldn't mind a lot of things a photographer should do. Everyone is rushing/hurrying, no time to properly compose and release the shutter (may be it shows my inexperience).

    I thought by going full manual, I can take proper exposure consistently. With so many people standing around the bride/groom and blocking the lights, shots are underexposed. I was keep switching modes, C1-C2-M-Av. After muhurtam, things started getting back to normal speed. Guests coming to the stage and taking pictures with bride/groom. I was walking around and taking some candid. Morning session wrapped up and bride/groom preparing to go to a temple. I stayed back, others went with bride/groom. Now I am started feeling sleepy, in fact many of us in the marriage hall were. Kids are hyper active running and screaming, playing hide and seek. I took some photos, but camera and I couldn't keep up with their speed. Some showed interests in taking pictures, it was nice. Some of the good shots are from this bunch. Thanks to the kids, for their interest and patience.

    They returned from the temple, I thought it's wrap up time. But more guests, more photos. Traditional photographer needed a break now, I took his place. 1DX M2 with 24-105 taking guests with bride/groom photos. They had a ritual after that. At this time, bride and groom are super tired and it's obvious on their face.

    While I was waiting for them to come from temple, I was looking at the pictures. 7D and 5D combined total of 1300+ photos. I really didn't expect it go this high. More than 60% of the photos are taken by me. And some more in 1DX, that's roughly 900 shots. I don't know how many of them are gonna be good and usable. I would be okay if at least 10% of them comes good. I prefer to view them in monitor and conclude how good/bad my photographs are. Not so keen on checking the pictures at the back of the LCD. Just checked few shots.

    I asked whether it's a paid job (for me) or I am doing this friendly. He said, he didn't think about it, but he's okay with anything and asked me how much I want. I said you're the boss, so you decide. Better check the photos in your studio and see if it's good enough to print and decide the pay accordingly. He couldn't decide the pay, and I don't know how much I should ask. Not yet decided about the pay.

    When we're generally talking about photography some months back I vaguely remember he said he pays 8k for photographer when has to hire outside photographer as he has booked more than one order on the same date. Assuming 8k is for lead/main photographer, so for extra photographer that would be less than that. One more reference is Sujoy paid 5k for his pre wedding shoot. These are the two clear references I have. How much a nominal daily wage would be for the people who are in this line of business? I mean for someone who just starts, may be like an assistant/light boy. Rs. 300-500 a day?

    Should I go with daily wage rate or one of the reference rate?

    There are lot of things I should do when/if I get the next opportunity.
    - Plan the shots before hand
    - Get the right lens
    - Shouldn't rush things
    - Don't have to be shy taking photos. Yes, I was shy taking photos. Especially, girls.
    - Communicate with your subject while taking photos
     
  4. raja manuel

    raja manuel Member

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    While the overall experience seems to have been an eye opener, it looks like you were switching equipment too many times to have learnt much about each.

    For the payment, it is hard to say. If I was this new to something I would only ask for my expenses to be covered (if I asked for anything at all) but I am aware that many people lose respect for you if you do things for free. The best payment you could get at this stage is him referring you to another photographer.

    It is good that you went through with this, though. It is a bit of a baptism by fire.
     
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    nac

    nac Well-Known Member

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    It's not like I wanted to try every gear available. I was asked to take it, and I couldn't refuse. After all I was there to do what he asks.
    Now I am really curious to look at the pictures. I am planning to go day after tomorrow.
     
  6. sujoyp

    sujoyp Well-Known Member

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    Wow Nac lot of experience you got in a short time...you played with one of the best gears, 1D,5Dmk3,7Dm2, 70-200, 85mm all of those are sheer professional gears and I cant imagine getting any of them . It was 1st experience and I think you got the experience you require and next time you can plan better.. and about compensation , you can take a minimum amount...at least something that will cover your expenses ..By the gears it seems the photographer would have charged a min 50k for the shoot. Take something form him...at least 1k per day
     
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    nac

    nac Well-Known Member

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    A friend of mine shoots RAW and finds that the pictures are little dull and kinda looks matte finish even after processing. He asked me why he's not getting that glossy look of jpeg which he gets from the camera.

    My guess is something to do with his workflow, but I am not sure as I don't shoot RAW. What do you guys think? Is it the RAW characteristics to not get glossy or is it his processing?
     
  8. izzikio_rage

    izzikio_rage Well-Known Member

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    RAW requires a decent amount of post processing to look good. It contains a lot of data from the camera but how that data is used is determined by the software you open it in. Try opening RAW in lighttoom or Capture one and applying some tweaks. It'll start looking amazing


    BTW i now shoot mostly in RAW

    Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using Tapatalk
     
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  9. sujoyp

    sujoyp Well-Known Member

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    I dont shoot raw at all nowdays...people say raw contains more details..that same detail makes raw file matt finish..u have to use application which will smoothen them to make it look like jpeg

    Sent from my E5563 using Tapatalk
     
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    nac

    nac Well-Known Member

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    The reason he shoots RAW is that he could get some amazing results, at least that's what I presume. But it lacks something he wants, glossy look.
    RAW vs jpeg debate will go on and on. It's a never-ending thing. I have read many professional shoot jpeg only. The best examples are news reporter, sports shooter.
    Lets the take the wedding I went recently. All of us shot combined total of about 2400 photos. Definitely, not all of them are gonna be used, lets say even 1/5th or 1/6th would be delivered to clients. How many of them are gonna be processed intensively like they do for glamour/fashion photos. I think, even wedding shooter can opt for jpeg only. By the way, we shot RAW+jpeg. My rough guess is about 70 gigs of memory filled for that one wedding. :emoji_astonished:
     
  11. sujoyp

    sujoyp Well-Known Member

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    wow Raw+Jpeg on those big guys :D thats really a lot...the best pics are processed...out of my weddings 2800 pics given by photographer which was 28gb ...we could print only 180 pics in the album ...remaining we can forget in our hdd forever ;)
     
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    nac

    nac Well-Known Member

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    28GB? So he shot in jpeg? That's a way to go if they are gonna shoot this many photos. In north, wedding ceremonies and events go on for 3 days, right?
    You guys processed and print yourselves? or you meant you picked 180 images which he print it for you?

    I haven't seen any wedding albums for years, I mean a physical copy. The last one I saw was printed in 6x4 or 5x7 and glued in album.
    The albums I saw in the studio (the one hired me) are good. They print in big photo sheets (something like 12x12 or 14x14, I don't know the exact dimension). May be that's the norm today. But that's new for me. I am looking forward to see my pictures printed in such albums. :)
     
  13. sujoyp

    sujoyp Well-Known Member

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    Yes nac all jpegs..there were 5 ceremonies in 3 days which they covered..
    Wevdidnt print ourself..to create that 12x12 or something like that big album they wanted max 180 pics only..the album looks beautiful..it cost around 7-8k per album

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  14. izzikio_rage

    izzikio_rage Well-Known Member

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    Got a wedding HDD of almost 250GB. Jpegs (full size) and videos. Had 3 guys shooting. Idea is that send them the ones you like best, then they'll process and make an album.

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  15. sujoyp

    sujoyp Well-Known Member

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    Yaah I am sure even in my case its sorted and not all of what was shot..video we had less..I dont like those songs behind videos

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  16. raja manuel

    raja manuel Member

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    The raw image is duller than the SOOC JPG for the very same image or is that just a general impression?

    Without examining any sample files, my guess would be:

    a) His images are underexposed. JPG forgives this with a tone curve while a raw file with neutral processing will look dull. If I was using RawTherapee I would move the white point of the tone curve to the right of the histogram under the curve i.e., until the highlights are about to blow.
    b) His white balance is off.
    b) He needs to dial in a lot more contrast and saturation.
    c) He needs to play with the black level.
    d) Various combinations of the above.

    Raw files can be pushed quite hard. Comparison of dull unprocessed raw and punchy processed JPG:

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
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    nac

    nac Well-Known Member

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    :emoji_astonished: that's huge size. Looks like lot of footage for the videos. What was it, 4k video?
    I have seen few, some of 'em are good. The most recent one is this, it's a pre-wedding song. I really like this, may be it's the song I like most.
    Sure, RAW is dull and noisy.
    So as I guessed, it's his processing not RAW images characteristics.
    Yes, I agree. RAW can be pushed harder than jpeg and extract much more details from RAW.
     
  18. sujoyp

    sujoyp Well-Known Member

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    I am going to my hometown for 3 days..I will test my Nikon 300mm ..yey :) I will also shoot RAW and see if I get sharper pics..
    Actually I use only a 8GB card, its just too less for RAW and fills in less then 200 pics ..lets see.
     
  19. OP
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    nac

    nac Well-Known Member

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    It's the first time since buying this lens, I mean other than test shots.
    Try some portrait, I mean people portraits.
     
  20. sujoyp

    sujoyp Well-Known Member

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    Yes definitely...I am just waiting to go out and shoot with that lens...Mumbai is soo humid now..I kept my box humidity around 40 and I think its safe at that.
    Rainy season is typically landscape season but Monsoon hasnt hit monsoon yet.
    yes I will try people portraits too.
     

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