Sorry man, I can't. Why? Because every source is biased in one or the other parametric measures. I would call any independant researcher as biased to his own beliefs and background; there's nothing unbiased. And you say the whole world is gaga over Chinese situation, and China is mum about it? Well those who have such visions about china, are themselves from a very different political scenario.
And you know about media. Innately, media aims for the bad...
And people liking it? Well, people did like it when India nuked at Pokhran(1998 I guess?) under the nose of the so called vigilante pro-American NPT. People always like it when their country stands out. Wonder why politicians stress on going to space/Moon; or developing Nukes? One aim is to boost the Morale of the countrymen, so that they may get along their duty and show dedication to their duty. And China as is, soaring by the moment; I have no doubts that majority are happy; and you know, there's nothing called 100%. There's always a minority.
So you don’t have a source to support your claim ? Then how did you ever come to the conclusion that people in China are “liking it”. Should I venture a guess that it is that typical communist FAITH, with which all communists around the world once loved to delude themselves to sleep - like everything in Russia is fine, like everything in East Germany is fine, like everything in Romania is fine – until that is they fell apart. And guess what, it turned out that the “biased” media was right all along.
Ad ignorantiam.
So please enlighten me how many people gave up their fundamental rights when Pokhran happened ? True the entire space race is in itself a product of cold war politics. True, “politicians stress on going to space/Moon” for political mileage. But how may country try to achieve those at cost of freedom. Only CHINA.
As with nuke, I guess it has more to do with psychology than anything else.
And please, just because I am critical of China, it does not automatically mean I am blind towards India’s problems. Please don’t prop up your straw man.
Exactly. Indian regime emphasizes upon so-called fundamental rights, which I dare say are less fundamental than the basic necessities (food; shelter, cloth, health). Chinese autocracy(yes; I don't see why autocracy should be taken negatively) guarantees you those basic necessities with a small trade-off from your other rights.
Don't you understand the condition of poor people in India; those who don't have food, those who have nothing!! They'd happily trade off SOME rights if they are guaranteed food; shelter, etc.
……
Heck; Right to Equality; look at the status of Women; of lower casts; of tribes...The rich-poor divide. India is ruled by rich people and poor people have no say. Is this the culture in India?
Few months ago I heard something about MBBS graduates rallying and shouting slogans because so and so(under-privileged) had reservations in AIIMS or something like that. Thats wrong isn't it? And I know why they did it; because the reservations were misused by the rich people from the so-called underprivileged ethnicity. That is wrong too. So where is the RIGHT thing?
Word for politicians: Don't look ahead; look behind yourself and see what you left out. What do you think; dreaming of nukes when people don't have food; is that logical? Running after China and trying to beat it at its game; trust me. Indian Government has a lot of homework to do before that.
Here are your assumptions.
1. The “so-called fundamental rights” can’t be had if “basic necessities” are to be provided. (I have one word for you “why ?”)
2. People happily give up their freedom etc for food. So state should take advantage of that human trait. (I have nothing to say here)
3. In China, no problem exists regarding health, food etc. (Care to corroborate that fact)
4. If I can find more flaws with Indian system, the Chinese system stands vindicated. (Logical fallacy.)
FYI, the male to female ratio in China is approx 120 to 100. Hmm……. Also, the rich and poor divide in China is far worse than in India or Brazil.
The movement against Caste based reservation is one more example of why India is far better than China. At least Indian government does not run its shinny tanks on unarmed students. Here in India or any other democratic country, if citizens don’t like a government decision they can protest against it. It is, of course a concept lost on communists.
Comparing chine with Prison is too much. If you refer to China as a Prison; I refer to India as ... you know where you can't find enough to eat, etc . Id rather trade off freedom; THAN trade off food.
I did not compare China to prison. It was an analogy to show the logical fallacy of YOUR premise. Your premise was that for food etc, freedom can be sacrificed. If it is true, then the prison, based on the same premise, is a nice place to be in. That’s all that there is to it, my friend.
You say that “Id rather trade off freedom; THAN trade off food”. No you won’t. You say that because you have both. So if I say, I will feed you for life, but you have to remain in a 9 ft by 9 ft room for all your life, you would agree to it. Would ya, my friend ?
Largest Military; Did I say anything before or after that? Am I wrong that China has the largest Military? China even has the largest workforce as of now; Should I be punished?
Population Control is not obligatory FYI. If your job doesn't exclusively ask you and If you are financially capable(as some allowances will be canceled) of sustaining the extra Children, you are free to have more than one. Its totally your wish and some people prefer to stay by the policy; some don't. Farmers have more children; businessmen have more children; even one doctor I met during my stay in Xin-Xiang had 2 children. Some people don't want to lose the allowance they get and don't want the burden of an extra child, so they stay by the policy.
And If you think that One-Child-Policy has been forced at gunpoint; I wonder what you think of the Gandhi sibling who caused a Havoc by forcing vasectomy to men somewhere near Mumbai? I'm not clear with the data; though I'm sure about something of the sort happening. Was it Sanjay Gandhi? I hope some forum member maybe able to point out the peculiars.
As one of the reasons to be jealous of China, you gave Largest Military. I simply questioned the judgment of the premise. Military is a resource hungry apparatus, which does not give any economic returns other than a flimsy psychological relief. Bigger the military, larger the economic drain. So large military can’t be a reason for jealousy. Technically advanced military, perhaps is. That’s why I found it UNDERWHELMING, not FACTUALLY incorrect.
So you are not even aware of population policy of China ? A Chinese couple can’t have more than 1 child. Exceptions to the one child rule are:
* Chinese minority groups (56 recognized minorities) can have 2-3 children [Eh..so China too makes exception to minorities like India ? If China does it, it must be right then.]
* A married couple who are BOTH ONLY children are allowed to have 2 children
* In the event of the death of a child, a couple can apply for permission to have another
As with Sanjay Gandhi’s vasectonomy drive, it was an organized lie, perpetrated by his rivals within the Congress. There is no truth in it. Sanjay Gandhi did initiate family planning drive, but the whole thing was blown out of proportion by the bureaucrats and this resulted in the myth. Even if it was true, I would be critical of it as well.
And I did not understand these;
“No freedom of movement – CHECK
Kill citizens and then charge their family for the bullets - CHECK
Displace citizens so rich can have some RnR – CHECK
Chinese people are Lame, can't walk? No freedom of movement? Clear this out.
A farmer in rural China can’t visit Shanghai, Honk Kong etc, unless he has a legitimate work permit. That’s what is called “no freedom of movement”. This was done to ensure (sic) that the cities are free from squatters. Because, you see, squatters don’t look good.
After the Tiananmen Square Massacre, the families of the killed students were charged for the bullets, that killed their beloved.
Shanghai, particularly, was a city of shanties. To build the modern city with shinny glass walled buildings, these people were displaced and relocated miles away from the city. And guess what the work permit rule applies to them also.
Seriously; an ideal communist country aims of providing everything to the citizens for free according to their necessity. Karl Marx ideals, perhaps? (Never read the book but I do know a bit of what's written inside.) So I donot believe that one has to pay for bullets.
The third point? Displace Citizens who are rich? Care to back it up?
I understand that you live on a planet where countries like Russia, East Germany, Cuba etc do not exist. Someone who speaks of “ideal communist country” in 2008, surely is not from this planet.
And I never said that the rich are displaced.
If my comments (those Largest Military - CHECK; Population control – CHECK) were so underwhelming to you, please do note that it was just a post written in good humour; in reply to the preceding post by you; which in my opinion were grossly extrapolating and modifying the exact facts.
Did I respond to that post of yours ? I did not. I responded only when you tried to argue from the point of authority and pretended to be holier-than-thou.
I don't know if you are supporting me or being hypocrite or whatever; but that was one example which I wanted to give to you to highlight the superior health control measures that were applied. Do you realize how such a disastrous disease that can spread like anything and can kill within few days; do you realize how such an epidemic was brought into control within 2 years? It would have swiped half of the medical staff in India had it originated here. But your example is flawed; simply because that disease cannot cause an epidemic here due to environmental factors.
And do you realise that no vaccine was made for the SARS-CoV Coronavirus; or as a matter of fact; no coronavirus had any vaccine against it before that. Chinese researchers prepared the vaccine indigenously within 1 year and became successful in bringing the epidemic to a screeching halt. Well for this one I have an article from a JAMA Journalist as evidence.
And of course you don't know how effective vaccination plans are in China.
You guys give the example of Medical Tourism in India as a great achievement? Whats it doing to the poor and the helpless? Are they to be left out from everything? I said it from my first post. Its not that health services aren't available in India; but mass mobilization is lacking and centralization of services persists. China has a more holistic health system; includes all areas; includes the rich and the poor; communist ideologies; building from the ground-up, you know...
One more assumption of yours. That in China every poor has access to health care system.
Just like India, China too has a long way to go in this area. Just like India, which officially promotes pseudo-medicines like Homeopathy and Ayurveda, China promotes Accupunture. Both are signs of failure of the governments to make modern medicine available to every nook and corner of their respective countries.
The reason I took up SARS was the way it was handled and the manner it was suppressed until it spilled out of China.
What Indian doctors would have done, is a speculation you can merrily indulge in. I don’t have a problem there.
And by the way WordWeb defines journalist as;
1.A writer for newspapers and magazines.
2.Someone who keeps a diary or journal.
I know what a journalist is. Thank you any way.
So whats wrong if Prachanda used democratic means? It helped satisfy some and shut the mouth of some others; a very clever move indeed.
Now Prachanda and Blackmail? I don't get it.
And naah; trust me, I couldn't be happier than this because to convince others we have democracy but for ourselves; it's a lion in a sheep's skin.
Nothing’s wrong. It only confirms my point. DEMOCRACY not AUTOCRACY.
Communist countries do things a lot better and faster because the regime knows and the people understand that without paying a price; ambitions are unreachable...
Listen Communism; or Maoism does not mean violence; even in its vaguest sense.. Its the way the thing is practiced. Communist Ideals are used all over the world; yet people dread from the word 'communism'. Karl Marx's ideals; is following them a sin? Trust me; all political systems borrow some or the other thing from his ideals; A communist country in its ideal sense, would be the goal of any country; why? because the system is so stable and the citizens do their duty and live as equals.. and get all their basic needs from the country. China is just moving closer to it; China is doing what it takes and is paying the price; it's a matter of time other countries realize the fact.
Hey can you send me a ticket to that planet you are on. Seems like a nice place.
Regarding Tibet; you tell me as you raised the topic first. Whether black or white; a conflict is a conflict. N-E violence again; Punjab Insurgency, to name a few.
And all these riots and communal disharmony that we see in India, the frequent bombings; etcetera; Doesn't it reflect how impotent this democratic government is?
So if a person kills, he is a murderer. Whether self-defense or cold blooded would not make a difference. Would it ? After all murder is a murder and conflict is a conflict. So all the conflicts all round the world are same as China’s Tibet problem. Either you have no clue what this Tibet problem is all about, or you are being hypocrite. I don't think you are a hypocrite. You appear to be a simpleton, althouh naive.
Democracy is not perfect. But it is the best we’ve got. Also, let me remind you, unlike China, India did not march its army into NE India to acquire it. India inherited it from the Brits. Also, again unlike China, India made not attempt to change the demography by pushing outsiders to settle in NE.
Punjab crisis was a purely political creation of Mrs Indira Ganghi which spiraled out of hand.
Please don’t BS me with Indian history.
BTW, may be you should also read on Xinjiang Uighur Autonomous Region.
And I haven't even touched upon corruption; crime. I'm getting sick looking at the state of corruption and how Manmohan Singh's Government saved itself from non-confidence vote...? Should I say what happens to corrupts/criminals in China? Yes, thats the way it works and it's effective and under control.
Another assumption. Chinese politicians are not corrupt.
Yes I know what happens to the criminals in China. They send them to the gallows. And China has scored another first in this department also. China has highest number of death penalties in a year. May I politely ask, what right does a state have, to take a life.
At this Snail-Pace; do you in your best senses think India might overtake China? What about the future? Isn't it high time Indian people learn to pay the price?
Give one reason why India would want to overtake China ? Why does pace matter ? And even more importantly, what price are you talking here ? Freedom ? Nah……we fought for it. Now that we have tasted it, guess we will keep it for the time being. Thank you very much.
You made a few more assumptions:
That I represent the popular sentiments of India. I do not.
That I am not critical of Indian hypocrisy. I am.
That India is a true representative of an effective democracy. She is not. Now, shall I call this intellectual dishonesty or pure oversight, that you chose India, and not any other truly successful and effective democracy, to pit against China. Or is it because India is convenient tool for you.
One thing I find contradictory in every communist who tries to play apologist for China, is that, when China was in true grips of communism, it led to severe catastrophe. The success of current China, if it can be called that, is due to capitalist ideals not because of communist ideals. So everytime an apologist tries to defend Chinese “success story”, he automatically rebuts the communist ideals. Strangely he is completely unaware of this contradiction.
A true communists do not go so out of the way to defend China, because they know that China is a double edged sword. It cuts both ways. And it is true for a capitalist too.
Anyway, take care.
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I , seriously, prefer the system. And I am not that informed as you are about politics; so I do not have much weapons to fire against you. 
