isaac12345
Journeyman
Interesting talk which highlights what's happening in India when it comes to 'development'
*www.youtube.com/watch?v=OkD8-UDNGQI
*www.youtube.com/watch?v=OkD8-UDNGQI
A dialougue on Development & Environment, Gadgil - Bhaduri, Goa University
- Thread starter isaac12345
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watching. brb in 2 hours.
This is awesome. Clarified a lot of things. Very informed discussion.
Some points I liked.
"Development" has become a language game
There are "symbols of development" and real difference to people's livelihoods
one example... 11000 jobs created by chemical industry in Ratnagiri, fishes die from their waste, govt does nothing, 20,000 fishermen lose their jobs
So land was grabbed from the people because it would have gone underwater after a Dam was built. The land didn't get flooded, it was not returned to the now homeless people, and Lavasa was built there instead.
this is the pattern everywhere, the govt attempts to encourage capitalism has ended in loot of the natural resources, with locals getting nothing, and increasing the wealth distribution gap.
Following one route or one path is not the only way of developing
after these considerations, development and ecology are no longer at odds. The purely economic notions of what constitute as growth and development in India is surprisingly and magically aligned with ecological considerations, from a political and practical perspective, so you can just leave morality out of the discussion.
and best example of a typical young guy living in Pune
This guy, goes and comes using the elevator, drives to the gym in a air conditioned car, and runs on an energy consuming treadmill. The apartment is next to a bunch of lush green hills.
Having a coffee in a 5 star hotel puts more strain on the environment than "dhaba type" food
It is important that the land and resources be used by the locals instead of large corporations. There is no need to up and down the country building malls, that is not development.
This is awesome. Clarified a lot of things. Very informed discussion.
Some points I liked.
"Development" has become a language game
There are "symbols of development" and real difference to people's livelihoods
one example... 11000 jobs created by chemical industry in Ratnagiri, fishes die from their waste, govt does nothing, 20,000 fishermen lose their jobs
So land was grabbed from the people because it would have gone underwater after a Dam was built. The land didn't get flooded, it was not returned to the now homeless people, and Lavasa was built there instead.
this is the pattern everywhere, the govt attempts to encourage capitalism has ended in loot of the natural resources, with locals getting nothing, and increasing the wealth distribution gap.
Following one route or one path is not the only way of developing
after these considerations, development and ecology are no longer at odds. The purely economic notions of what constitute as growth and development in India is surprisingly and magically aligned with ecological considerations, from a political and practical perspective, so you can just leave morality out of the discussion.
and best example of a typical young guy living in Pune
This guy, goes and comes using the elevator, drives to the gym in a air conditioned car, and runs on an energy consuming treadmill. The apartment is next to a bunch of lush green hills.
Having a coffee in a 5 star hotel puts more strain on the environment than "dhaba type" food
It is important that the land and resources be used by the locals instead of large corporations. There is no need to up and down the country building malls, that is not development.
It is much simpler looking at problems and solutions if we are not bothered by an image of us that we can never control, and which is anyway totally irrelevant to what needs to be done. We don't need to make in India. We need to make for india. No one cares about nationalism or secularism. We care about sanitation, health, childcare, easy distribution of food, preserving common resources for common use. We do not need to follow any template to achieve this. Historically, and currently, the same thing is happening, loot of country for the benefit of the few. Industrialists and corporations and lush concrete cityscapes are not a necessary part of the picture.
OP
isaac12345
Journeyman
watching. brb in 2 hours.
This is awesome. Clarified a lot of things. Very informed discussion.
Some points I liked.
"Development" has become a language game
There are "symbols of development" and real difference to people's livelihoods
one example... 11000 jobs created by chemical industry in Ratnagiri, fishes die from their waste, govt does nothing, 20,000 fishermen lose their jobs
So land was grabbed from the people because it would have gone underwater after a Dam was built. The land didn't get flooded, it was not returned to the now homeless people, and Lavasa was built there instead.
this is the pattern everywhere, the govt attempts to encourage capitalism has ended in loot of the natural resources, with locals getting nothing, and increasing the wealth distribution gap.
Following one route or one path is not the only way of developing
after these considerations, development and ecology are no longer at odds. The purely economic notions of what constitute as growth and development in India is surprisingly and magically aligned with ecological considerations, from a political and practical perspective, so you can just leave morality out of the discussion.
and best example of a typical young guy living in Pune
This guy, goes and comes using the elevator, drives to the gym in a air conditioned car, and runs on an energy consuming treadmill. The apartment is next to a bunch of lush green hills.
Having a coffee in a 5 star hotel puts more strain on the environment than "dhaba type" food
It is important that the land and resources be used by the locals instead of large corporations. There is no need to up and down the country building malls, that is not development.
I am glad you liked it. Atleast someone on this forum is interested in more than just computer technology.
Regarding make in India as opposed to make for india, I am totally with you. The latter strategy will generate the wage increases and the decrease in poverty that we drastically need. The former just puts everyone under extremely competitive pressures and makes for very minor gains. Unless you are part of the business class and own most of the proceeds from the profit.
Here is another interesting read for you. Its titled - The political aspects of full employment - *courses.umass.edu/econ797a-rpollin/Kalecki--Political Aspects of Full Employment.pdf
Interesting that above two line are contradictory.First of all what India mostly has is not capitalism but "crony capitalism",there is a big difference.2nd considering capitalism(USA,leader of capitalism camp) pure evil is as wrong as considering socialism(USSR,now extinct but will remain leader of socialist camp) pure heaven.
An example about this:
1.Person A,CEO of a successful company having thousands of workers & multi billion dollar revenue,rightly deserves a salary of crores per month without paying back breaking tax of 50%(90% in pre-1991 socialist era of India)--capitalism
2.Person A,CEO of a bust/in losses company having thousands of workers & hundred of crores revenue,still getting a salary of/earning crores per month without paying back breaking tax of 50%--Crony Capitalism(aka Vijay Mallya & his Kingfisher airlines,in USA his assets would have been auctioned by now)
3.Person A,CEO of a bust/in losses company having thousands of workers & hundred of crores revenue,still got a big paycheck out of govt bailout money without paying back breaking tax of 50%--faulty capitalism(aka wall street bankers getting big paychecks of bailout money,a favourite point of socialists to attack capitalism)
4.Person A,CEO of a successful company having thousands of workers & multi billion dollar revenue,does not deserve a salary of crores per month(never mind his top IIT/IIM/Stanford/MIT degrees) as there are so many others in country who only gets thousands per month.Let's make a law to prevent emerging of such people in the 1st place by making sure all big companies/projects are govt owned--Socialism(Everyone should work up to his/her potential but demand only what he needs not what he/she deserves,perform like iPhone/S6 but price like micromax)
true capitalism don't allow destructive activities because they cost a lot of money(reason why war is such a costly affair).if any sector is thriving in-spite of that then it is either faulty capitalism or crony capitalism.e.g.VW cheated on tests & may have earned some amount but eventually lost much more than that(over $21 billion wiped off its market value since the scandal).
there is no problem in either capitalism or crony capitalism or even socialism as long as the industries and companies are not polluting water, soil and air, or say choosing coal over sensitive forest zones.
I guess the anti capitalist angle comes in when common resources, forest wood, sand, water, fish, these things are being used for the benefit of few people instead of gains for all.
I guess the anti capitalist angle comes in when common resources, forest wood, sand, water, fish, these things are being used for the benefit of few people instead of gains for all.
nikufellow
In the zone
Buy Saving Capitalism from the Capitalists - Unleashing the Power of Financial Markets to Create Wealth and Spread Opportunity Book Online at Low Prices in India | Saving Capitalism from the Capitalists - Unleashing the Power of Financial Markets to - a good read for those interested