Problems with Linux: Why it has no chance...

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OP
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borg

In the zone
hmmm... Well Sailendra, what you are talking about is the general nature of the Linux movement. Agreed that the Linux movement is a commendable movement & shows how people from all over the globe can organize themselves & come out with a product. But I am not talking about how good or bad this movement is, let us focus purely on the merits & demerits of the end product ie. the Linux OS.

A lot of people speak about the Linux movement as some "good" & speak about MS & other commercial companies & programs as though they are some "evil". They get all emotional about it. I don't necessarily share that view though. I am sure a lot of other people also don't.There will be free software & there will be paid software. That doesn't mean that the paid stuff is "evil" & the free stuff is "good". It all depends. Programs like OSs need a lot of money to develop. Companies invest millions of dollars & at the end expect to make money from the saftware. I don't think that is "evil" as some Linux people like to describe it. Its business. Plain & simple. I don't think bringing "good" & "evil" in the scene is very wise. I know that a lot Linux buffs promote Linux because they feel that it is some "good" with which they can fight against the "evil" of Windows. Sadly, a lot of computer users don't necessarily share that view though.
 

tuxfan

Technomancer
In my opinion the best innovation linux has made is bringing together the ease of GUI (from Windows, etc) and security+stability (of Unix). It gives the best of both worlds!! True, command line interface needs to be used for some things. But there are GUI comunterparts or frontends to do most of those things that a normal user want. Normal user means someone who uses his machine (at home or office) for day to day tasks like surfing, emailing, listening to music, watching movies, using office application, etc. Linux is behind in gaming part. But I am sure as it becomes more and more popular, there will be lots of them made for linux too.
 
OP
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borg

In the zone
And regarding the innovation part, innovation doesn't always have come to satisfy a need or demand for something. What I am trying to say is that sometimes a solution can come before a problem arises. It may happen such that an innovation itself creates a demand for itself. Its not necessary always that a need should arise & that it should be fulfilled later. A good example is Apple's iTunes. People weren't necessarily looking for legal online music downloads before it. And now it has become so popular that there is so much demand for online legal music download sites. It is exactly this kind of innovation which will suffer without commercial companies like MS & Apple. The possibility of such innovation happenning on Linux is bleak.


In my opinion the best innovation linux has made is bringing together the ease of GUI (from Windows, etc) and security+stability (of Unix). It gives the best of both worlds!!

I think the Mac OS X far outstrips Linux on this one.

Also openXS said:

Linux is the MOST stable OS ever made

I think you forgot Mac OS X. Based on FreeBSD, I think this one is a formidable contender to the title of Mos stable OS ever
 

sreevirus

Certified Nutz
openXS said:
sreevirussreevirus,

There is no problem in comparing, infact, there is no use. You compare two things of the same make. Linux is a Server OS, and windows is for home/personal use.

Pre-Replied
sreevirus said:
AND then again, why do ppl say that windows is user friendly and linux is more secure and leave it there?? why dont we think abt how windows can be more secure and linux can be more user friendly??

thats the whole point i'm talkin about...why shud linux be restricted being a server OS and windows as a personal desktop OS? why cant we think in alternative ways? why cant linux be an easy personal/home use OS?

oldmonk said:
ppl will be more willing to shell out more money for peace of mind and ease of use and then the affordabilty of open source linux doesnt matter....

how many people do you know (even those who swear by winblows) shell out money for windoze?

arre, lets leave piracy out of this, i'm talkin about a broader prospective....even if ppl *are* buying illegal copies of windows, why do they buy *only* windows when i see (practically) no ppl buying illegal copies of SuSE Pro or RedHat Enterprise Linux or Linspire (yeah their cost also somewhat equals the cost of a windows copy) and these distros r supposed to be windows-replacements....
 

firewall

In the zone
Well... vey good discussion is going on... it's realy enjoyable... but
before commneting on the mail question i would like to point out some misconceptions....

1. Linux is not operating system, it's mere a kernel. the distros we see now a days are mostly gnu systems unning on linux kernel.. and thus the whole os is gnu/linux...

as we r here trying to compae this ystem to windows , we must refer it by it's ight name... i.e .gnu/linux as we are talking about OS not the kernel.

2. Gnu/linux operating system and linux - the kermnel are released under GNU/GPL and these ae FREE. not only that mosts of gnu/linux applications are also GNU/GPL'd.

There is a massive difference between FREE software and FREEWARE..

borg said:
Most of the programs available for Linux are opensource, freeware & stuff like that.

Now on issues, raised by @borg

You can see that there is absolutely no way of figuring things out in linux. You either know the command or you don't. this is an old & outdated way of computing & that is to say the least.

This is absurd... How CLI could be outdated way... still we have lots of high end jobs, that only can be done by cli... and as Borg always refers windows... even on windows lots of jobs can be done by only passing commands on CLI.... @Borg find it urself...

but still it is quite rudamentary & it doens't even tell you where the whole thing was installed. Very outdated way of computing.

This is nothing but lack of knowledge on gnu/linux... if you don't know or you can't find anything that doesnot mean that thing doesn't exist....

Many of them in beta stage...
Yes many of them are in BETA as we, the Free Software coders agree , that a particula program needs futher development o it has some bugs...

but what MS do... they donot rectify the bugs and just released the next vesion (with that bug) as a fresh one.... is that good....

You mostly have alternatives for Linus & very rarely the original programs. people need the original stuff, not some alternative. For ex. for CD writing I need Nero & not some alternative, for playing music I need Winamp & not some winamp wannabe, etc etc. But Linux is full of wannabes & lookalikes & very rarely the real thing. It would be acceptable to use wannabes occasionally, but having to use them all the time is not acceptable, atleast to me.

This is again lack of information.... who says that all the stuffs ae alternatives... I use gnu/linux and all the software for me are not alternatives. they are the general.....I know a group from Bengal are teaching childrens computing and bengali in the community centres in US, canada and australia, ask those childrens what is alternative and what is oiginal.... :)

You have Red Hat, Mandrake, Suse, etc etc all coming up with their own versions.

This is the ultimate Freedom.... use that suits you most... and this makes one thing sue , whatever the distro u r getting the same standard of linux kenel and gnu applications....
Not only that, if you can afford buy the product with support and if you can't us it free of cost ......

Even if commercial companies develop Linux versions of their software, no one wants to provide technical support for Linux.

This is no entiely tue... it depends under what license/terms you are using the software.... and besides this.... what support do you want or rather getting from MS itself on windows....

If someone is using Windows NT and wish to patch it so that the system couldn't be attacked by Blaster worm, that person have to either upgrade the system to any higher version of windows or simply to migrate to gnu system as MS has stopped all it's technical suppots fro NT and thus the patches too....

Most of the stuff on linux is commmunity supported, which may not suit everyone's needs.

Again Borg missed the theme... if you need any enhancement to a community supported application, you may just appoach the developers team and aks them for that feature or if you are a progammer then you ca nactively contibute that feature.... in case of Windows whom should you approach and who is there to listen you.... and above all Why.???

:)
 

oldmonk

Broken In
this is all subjective remarks and peoples passion flaring up.



innovation doesn't always have come to satisfy a need or demand for something. What I am trying to say is that sometimes a solution can come before a problem arises. It may happen such that an innovation itself creates a demand for itself. Its not necessary always that a need should arise & that it should be fulfilled later. A good example is Apple's iTunes. People weren't necessarily looking for legal online music downloads before it. And now it has become so popular that there is so much demand for online legal music download sites. It is exactly this kind of innovation which will suffer without commercial companies like MS & Apple. The possibility of such innovation happenning on Linux is bleak.

If you call this innovation then what about the fact that anyone can ditch their pirated windoze copy and just download their favourite linux distro with all the applications they need whether it is for running an ISP, programming supercomputers, making a word document, power point presentation or even boiling an egg!!!!!
Been going on much loinger than the iPod , dude!!!


BORG>>>>

Lets suppose commercial companies, like MS (which many Linux people hate so much) & Apple, simply vanish from the market. Will Linux, in its present form, be able to take on itself the task of innovating at the pace that we are so used too?.

What innovation are you talking about here????
Name one from MS. any one. or more if you feel there are any.
I will show you proof that 90% of the time MS bought the "innovation" or just stole it.

The pace of development of free software and linux is amny times faster than Anything the non-free sector has to offer. you will be stuck with Xpee for much more time than the linux users who generally see a six month release cycle for all their products. And when the "innovation" comes like service pack 2 for Xpee it will be plagued by innumerable bugs that all hackers and virus writers will have a party with, and all syadmins etc will pull their hair trying to nsure compatibility!!!!

Now coming to Linux I don't see any new & original features. It rather sticks to its "me too" line. I don't undestand how new improvements & new features can happen in Linux, since no single company is behind it. Untill a way is found I think linux will simply be content with imitating other people's work.

Understand what linux is-
It is the kernel and the underlying GNU tools.
thats all.
the rest is from induviduals/groups who make applications for whatever reason- this includes Mozilla, openoffice, wine, KDE, Gnome etc etc....

Improvements and new features happen in these step by step, and you just have to see from one version to the next to appreciate them.
Are Companies a prerequisite for innovation????
this is the first time i heard of something like this.
Comapnies are also made up of people who work for a commaon goal - just like the induvidual free software programmers - who do the same.
Want to know what MS has imitated from linux??? Find out it isn't hard. At all.

"Can Linux in its present form survivie on its own?"

MS only survived because it had no competition.
For the first time in many years it has some. It realizes that and even has a department to counteract the linux threat!!!

Consider this.
The only thing not working in the favour of linux is that many short sighted hardware device makers do not support linux, especially the cheaper devoice makers. Linux developers have to work very hard to do drivers for these vendors which very often, but not always work as well as , and sometimes even better than the original.
That is the root of all the problems faced today by linux.

I swear installing linux today is so intuitive that i am amazed when i consider what i had to do with old distros like redhat 6. you pop in your cd and select language, mouse timezone and partions. thats it. you get a system working with all devices configured and running from the time the sytem does a single boot!!!!

Except _some_ of the exotic hardware mentioned above.....

Its long process to get some of these working. but how many devices do you know that either didnt have a driver for winXP or the driver does not support win 98 and below. I know of quiet a few!!!!

For most people, except maybe the Udham singh types, the only hard part about linux is that you have to do some partioning. Why????

because the disk already has windows on it. If they had a computer with linux preinstalled, or a blank disk, you wouldn't find it so difficult would you?
:lol: :lol:
lastly if the aliens in Independence Day were running Linuxmaybe with iptables on then the movie would have had a different ending altogether.

Thats probly why the US army and the indian chinese and many other armies are switching to linux!!! :p :p :p
 

GNUrag

FooBar Guy
borg said:
Very little or no originality & innovation. So does that mean that Linux cannot survive without the other operating systems?
Just one thing ??? what do you mean by innovation ??? The GNU/Linux OS is not another OS man!.... see, the simple things like button/combo/textbox / double click are going to be like that only no matter what OS you use.... if its something else that you mean by innovation then what is it ???

borg said:
Who does the R&D for Linux???. For now, Linux developers are just making Linux equivalents of features found in other OSs.
Are you sure you mean just Linux .... and only linux.... As firewall has pointed above, Linux is a Free Software... and so is GNOME / KDE / Xmms / K3b / Apache / blah blah.... all these things are separate projects.... In Free Software community, its the random people working on random projects from random countries...

borg said:
Untill a way is found I think linux will simply be content with imitating other people's work
As i said earlier, what is it that you're trying to say by innovation ? And if you think there's no innovation going on in Free Software community ... then just have a look at SourceForge.net ....

borg said:
A lot of people speak about the Linux movement as some "good" & speak about MS & other commercial companies & programs as though they are some "evil". They get all emotional about it.
You dont get it mate.... Its a comparison between Proprietary Technology versus Free/Open Softwares that we (atleast me) always talk about.... Linux was never a movement .... was it ??? Its the Free Software Movement ....

borg said:
I think you forgot Mac OS X. Based on FreeBSD, I think this one is a formidable contender to the title of Mos stable OS ever
And i think you are answering your question yourself.... FreeBSD is also a Free Software ... released under The BSD Licence which in turn is a GPL compatible licence.... So you see, because of the Free Software distributed by the The Regents of the University of California, you get that Mac OS X operating system...
 

GNUrag

FooBar Guy
sreevirus said:
also, the server-client model in linux shud be modified....ppl like more GUI.......the high security in linux can be really frustrating....why shud ppl need to type in commands like "rpm -ivf package.x.x-xx".
Which client server model are you talking about ??? installing packages via command line is not security... is it ???

sreevirus said:
it sorta makes me think "why does Linux OS doesnt trust even the administrator?" why does it need us to be logged in as root and then operate??
How else will the OS come to know that you are admin or not ??? and in fact Linux is the OS which gives god like powers to admin... not possible in windows ...

sreevirus said:
do lay users need such security?? the high security file-system must be a little modified for easy use for linux-novices like me.
Its this high security filesystem because of which you dont have viruses or Linux ... unlike in Win32 filesystems, where every file ending with .exe/.scr/.pif/.com is executable by default, in unix filesystems , every executable file downloaded/created is not executable by default ...
 

GNUrag

FooBar Guy
borg said:
Now this happens because each of these companies have R&D machines behind them. As far as Linux is concerned, all I have seen it doing is playing the "me too" game.
Obviously, Rich companies can pay for their employees ... whereas GNU projects are done by Free Software Enthusiasts... they write code in their free time while they can actually be clerks/bus drivers/lawyers/doctors in their real life.... and share their work with world without any restrictions attached... and you're calling them imitators....

You see what the problem is.... A lot of people use GNU/Linux, but how many actually contribute ??? .... its people like you and me that can make a difference.... I've been associated with Free Software Foundation for quite sometime.... and what do i get in return ???? i've not been paid a single rupee for that.... ...... ...... what do say on that...
 
OP
B

borg

In the zone
First of all, I initiated this topic to discuss Linux's failure as of now to make any major inroads into the desktop opersating system sement. i was not talking about servers & maniframes running in some organization somewhere. digit magazine doesn't is more of a consumer oriented mag & not necessarily a power user mag (like PCQ). So let us confine our discussion to the desktop only.

Coming to the topic of innovation. You say that MS has not innovated anything. You must be joking. I think that is pretty much the hate propaganda that Linux buffs have been waging against MS for years. I can tell you about an N no. of developments MS made to its software by itself without copying anyone. Let me give you some ex. for the record-

1. MS Flight Simulator - tell me any other flight simulator which even comes close to this one. MS Flight Simulator is the best flight sim period. there are so many features on this one that no one else in the business has. Microsoft games are some of the best. They are not copies.

2. As I mentioned in one of my earlier posts in this same thread. the idea of context sensitive menus (on right clicking) appeared first on MS operating systems. It was not copied from anyone.

3. MS makes some of the best input devices, whether they be keyboards & mice or gamepads. They are simply the best.


4. MS was also the firt to come up with the CD autorun feature. You just insert the CD, the program automatically starts. No one else had this prior to MS. (In Linux, even after inserting the disc, you have to manually mount it to even read it, lol)

5. Heard of corona, the technology behind Windows media Player?. One of the best, if not the best codec.

I can give many more. Please do not say that MS didn't innovate anything. Thats simply not true.

And another thing, when I say Linux, I mean the entire OS. Yes, I do know that Linux is just the kernel & there are a lot more things that go into the actual distros such as RH, Suse, etc. But i cannot mention this everytime & when I say Linux, it must be understood that I am talking about the entire distro.


You see what the problem is.... A lot of people use GNU/Linux, but how many actually contribute ??? .... its people like you and me that can make a difference.... I've been associated with Free Software Foundation for quite sometime.... and what do i get in return ???? i've not been paid a single rupee for that.... ...... ...... what do say on that...

Here again we see emotions. I told you before that let us not bother about the greatness of this so called Free software movement or whatever. Let us not worry about how or why so many people are working or not working for the Linux development or whether they are working for free or not. These issues only impact those who like the Linux movement. People like me who don't share sympathy just don't care about all these things. Let us just focus on the end product shall we. If you give such reasons for the short comings of Linux, then many such reasons can also be given for the shortcommings of MS. Lets simply keep the discussion about the end products.


So you see, because of the Free Software distributed by the The Regents of the University of California, you get that Mac OS X operating system...

The basis for the Mac OS X may have been the mach microkernel, but the similarities end there. Use Mac OS X & you will realise how much original work Apple has put behind that OS.


I swear installing linux today is so intuitive that i am amazed when i consider what i had to do with old distros like redhat 6. you pop in your cd and select language, mouse timezone and partions. thats it. you get a system working with all devices configured and running from the time the sytem does a single boot!!!!

Exactly, like anispace said, the only thing that easy to do in Linux is the installation! :lol:
 

GNUrag

FooBar Guy
borg said:
Here again we see emotions. I told you before that let us not bother about the greatness of this so called Free software movement or whatever.
Ever heard of terms like Vendor Lock-in/ Viruses/ Scalability/ Frequent Software Upgrades/Piracy ...... if you can answer above terms then i'm sure you can understand what is this Free Software Philosophy...

borg said:
These issues only impact those who like the Linux movement. People like me who don't share sympathy just don't care about all these things.
Please DO NOT sympathise if you dont share Free Software Philosophy.... But then you cant criticize Free Softwares if you dont subscribe to its underlying principles and philosophy.... Free Software and Open Standards can work wonders...


I'll be glad if you post a reply to this thread of mine:
*www.thinkdigit.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5884&start=0

.
 

sreevirus

Certified Nutz
GNUrag said:
sreevirus said:
also, the server-client model in linux shud be modified....ppl like more GUI.......the high security in linux can be really frustrating....why shud ppl need to type in commands like "rpm -ivf package.x.x-xx".
Which client server model are you talking about ??? installing packages via command line is not security... is it ???
well, actually it is security....why cant i just do that by double clicking on the rpm file? and that too as admin only when i already AM logged in as admin in X. again, i am sorry to say there is much more flexibilty to do things thru the command line, but why is it not flexible enough in the GUI?? and even installing software is tedious be it if it is available as rpm or source.
the reason i am saying this is many of my friends whom i convinced to try linux are frustrated. they wanna try more softwares (who doesnt?) and they say installing softwares itself is a headache. and then they say "linux is for geeks". I do want linux to be more user-friendly.

GNUrag said:
sreevirus said:
it sorta makes me think "why does Linux OS doesnt trust even the administrator?" why does it need us to be logged in as root and then operate??
How else will the OS come to know that you are admin or not ??? and in fact Linux is the OS which gives god like powers to admin... not possible in windows ...
yes, it gives superpower status to the admin, but u r undermining the fact of what i always emphasize, user-friendliness.....when AS ADMINISTRTATOR, I have logged in to the X Window System, why does it constanly require me to again and again log in as root in the command line for mundane tasks?? I am ok with the fact that if i am an admin and my friend is not, it will allow ONLY me to do changes, but when I am logged in as admin, why does it STILL require ME to type in the pasword AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN?? and the X Window system doesnt help mush either. even as admin, i cant browse to some folders which i can do thru command line....WHY? why cant i do the same tasks thru X but only thru the terminal? :(

GNUrag said:
sreevirus said:
do lay users need such security?? the high security file-system must be a little modified for easy use for linux-novices like me.
Its this high security filesystem because of which you dont have viruses or Linux ... unlike in Win32 filesystems, where every file ending with .exe/.scr/.pif/.com is executable by default, in unix filesystems , every executable file downloaded/created is not executable by default ...
again, i can surely say that there WILL be viruses for Linux nomatter what, if linux were to become a generally accepted desktop OS. virus coders just wanna cause trouble to the user, those lamers just like to see the ppl in a bad situation. and there ARE viruses coded for Linux/Unix, and if i'm not mistaken, why r anti-virus s/w's like QtFprot made for linux if linux was totally immune from virus attacks?? its just a matter of HOW MANY PPL USE LINUX, the more they use, the more virus will be created...its just vandalism.


please do not consider this as anti-linux, its just problems faced by a person who wants a good friendly little OS in linux. (i too use linux, tho not more than win xp) :)
and i like good discussions like these. :)

and others please dont say things like"if u dont like linux, dont use it" and stuff like that. :) because(according to me) these r the factors that tend to alienate linux from the common user.
 

GNUrag

FooBar Guy
borg said:
1. MS Flight Simulator - tell me any other flight simulator which even comes close to this one.
Flight Simulators and things like that can exist in Free Software Domain also... it needs programmers to start such a project... If something does not exist in Free Software Community then it does not mean it can't be created....

borg said:
2. As I mentioned in one of my earlier posts in this same thread. the idea of context sensitive menus (on right clicking) appeared first on MS operating systems. It was not copied from anyone.
You are crying about this innovation all the time... Innovation is there in Free Software Community also...
1) aaxine : Can play music/video in shell console, using all ASCII characters. Ever heard of something like that ?
2) UPX : Can compress executable files (Win32 and Unix) without converting them into zip format and they still execute without decompressing
3) Ogg Vorbis : Its a Free/Open File format and you dont have to worry about licencing issues as in MP3

There are many more.... Sometime visit SourceForge.net.... And all of the above projects are from SourceForge and useful for home user...

borg said:
3. MS makes some of the best input devices, whether they be keyboards & mice or gamepads. They are simply the best.
As i said, Free Software is made by random people living in random countries... A company manufacturing hardware can't survive with such a setup... However, Freedom and Open Standards can play a role here too... In the form of open specification of that hardware in the form of open source device drivers...

Can you say such about hardware made my MS (or any other proprietry vendor)?? You see if hardware specs are closed, it wont work on anything other than what its manufacturer wants it to run on... And then people go on crying, my hardware does no work on that system...

borg said:
4. MS was also the firt to come up with the CD autorun feature. You just insert the CD, the program automatically starts. No one else had this prior to MS. (In Linux, even after inserting the disc, you have to manually mount it to even read it, lol)
Of course, in UNIX based operating systems, you have to mount all your hardware onto OS to be able to read-write onto it... Is that a problem ???

borg said:
5. Heard of corona, the technology behind Windows media Player?. One of the best, if not the best codec.
Ever heard of Jpeg format ? Jpeg picture format is an Open Specification.... so that any company/programmer can use it in his application without worying about any licencing issues... there are dozens of such examples that i can list here if you quote above point....

Now you see what the problem is? People just cry about some LINUX thing and say I dont share Free Software Philosophy... Its these small things like jpeg/png , zip file formats that are open specificaions make up en entire Free Software Stack Stockpile....

borg said:
But i cannot mention this everytime & when I say Linux, it must be understood that I am talking about the entire distro.
Please take that pain... and atleast try to do some justice...
 

djmykey

Let the music play.....
I would'nt be whining about anything if I waz gettin the os free of cost I would mould my machine so as to fit my os rather than the other way round. Btw I am gonna do my project in Linux yo no programming just configuring a Squid Server.
 

oldmonk

Broken In
borg>>>>>


1. MS Flight Simulator - tell me any other flight simulator which even comes close to this one. MS Flight Simulator is the best flight sim period. there are so many features on this one that no one else in the business has. Microsoft games are some of the best. They are not copies.

I do not think you have experienced any other flight simulators other than Microsoft, and i do not think you have any pilot friends to help you decide which is more realistic.
MS flight simulator might have all the eye candy you could want - it does show you tyre smoke, moving parts in the aircraft, etc etc.... these are not features, but basically eye candy, which actually screws up the 'realism' in the simulation, by taking out all the power on your graphics adapter.
Do you really think a Cessna is as easy to fly in real life as it is in MS??? Believe me, it is not.
Even the way MS calculates the behaviour of the aircraft, and its flight models are totally flawed, as it only uses standard aircraft data, and not all the external factors which might affect flight.
Yes, you can improve all these things in MS, but only by buying third party software which again costs a bomb.

Lets compare it to Flight Gear..
Flight Gear does not have as much eye candy, but when it comes to 'realistic' simulation, nothing beats flight gear. The reason behind this is that flight gear basically calculates the flight characteristics by simulating air flow on a realistic aircraft model.
Secondly, flight gear is free... its open source and is under continual development. It has a larger aiport Database, it has more aircrafts available and it almost has the same eye candy effects, and all that it does not have yet, it will have soon, as it is Open Source and thousands around the world are developing it.

So, try downloading Flight Gear, install it and run it and feel the difference of flying a 'real' Flight SImulator, and not a piece of commercial crap like MS Flight Simulator(aka "game")



As I mentioned in one of my earlier posts in this same thread. the idea of context sensitive menus (on right clicking) appeared first on MS operating systems. It was not copied from anyone.

You may have heard about Interleaf which in the mid-80s may have invented context-sensitive popups. Microsoft has yet to implement one piece of what Interleaf did: Intelligent defaults. So, if you just cut something, the popup would default to "Paste." In most cases, it defaulted to "repeat the action last performed when in this state," e.g., change font if text is selected and insert comment if none is selected. A right-mouse click would launch the popup to the default selection without having to manually retraverse the tree. A simple right click-and-release would execute the default action so experienced users who'd learned the defaults could click through tasks without even having to see the menus.

Old unix windowing interfaces like motif already had context sensitive menus although not as devloped as windows - buts thats from a long time back.




MS makes some of the best input devices, whether they be keyboards & mice or gamepads. They are simply the best.

you are right some of the best, compared to what? logitech? whats so innovative ???
more buttons? "optical mouse blue" or "optical mouse red" ?? cool shape? split in two??? QWERTY layout from a hundred years ago??? give me a break . cant you come up with something better?
heres some _innovative_ mice and keyboards for you - not from microsoft although theyll soon copy them!!!

*www.extremetech.com/article2/0,397...xtremetech.com/article2/0,3973,1039254,00.asp
(keyboard)

*www.virtualdevices.net/ just look at this keyboard!!!! Why doesn't microsoft buy that company next????




MS was also the firt to come up with the CD autorun feature. You just insert the CD, the program automatically starts. No one else had this prior to MS. (In Linux, even after inserting the disc, you have to manually mount it to even read it, lol)

Your information about linux is wrong. Try some distro after redhat 7.2. Ever heard of super mount??

So many cd players have autoplay from so long. remember when "multimedia kits" where introduced in india. Creative iinfra suite was a software that allowed cds to autoplay!! musch before this feature was built into windows 95!!




5. Heard of corona, the technology behind Windows media Player?. One of the best, if not the best codec

Ok so corona is good. But all those highly paid guys at microsoft have to do something besides making new bugs!!!

If you give such reasons for the short comings of Linux, then many such reasons can also be given for the shortcommings of MS

the reasons are totally different!!! Microsoft charges money! Linux doesn't have to.

If you pay money you expect a decent stable bugfree operating sytem.
The money you pay to microsoft lets you just boot the pc and nothing else. you have to shell out a lot more before it becomes really useful!!

besides MS never apologizes or explains its shortcomings. They are just there and they will be fixed as and when ms thinks its time.

try this.

in your fantastic XPee system make a folder called "notepad" on your desktop. then go to internet explorer and rightclick and select view source.
See what happens.
Do you know how long its been around????
try with any older version of windows and youll find out.

This is what you get for your money!!!!


Lets simply keep the discussion about the end products.

Ignore all the history.
Now what are so many big companies putting their weight behind linux??
Surely the people there who make these descisions know more that you and i?




the only thing that easy to do in Linux is the installation!

Then whats so difficult? The lack of opportunities to reinstall your OS?

theory:
You know all those splash screens that flash by when you reinstall windows tend to reprogram the lame user whos sitting in front of the pc at that time. Its an evil microsoft strategy!!!
[/quote]
 

GNUrag

FooBar Guy
sreevirus said:
well, actually it is security....why cant i just do that by double clicking on the rpm file? and that too as admin only when i already AM logged in as admin in X.
I dont get what your point is .... You know , you can actually logon to X as normal user , start xterm, su, start file manager, and double lick on rpm files to install...

sreevirus said:
yes, it gives superpower status to the admin, but u r undermining the fact of what i always emphasize, user-friendliness.....when AS ADMINISTRTATOR,
Joke: If ur organization has an admin that demands GUI then kick him out ... :) :) :) :)

sreevirus said:
I have logged in to the X Window System, why does it constanly require me to again and again log in as root in the command line for mundane tasks??
no it does not... as i said, you can do sysadmin tasks while logged on as normal user also... you just have to su ...

sreevirus said:
I am ok with the fact that if i am an admin and my friend is not, it will allow ONLY me to do changes, but when I am logged in as admin, why does it STILL require ME to type in the pasword AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN??
I dont get your point .... can you explain in details.... When u're logged in a root into X server, you dont have to enter passwords anywhere... can you elaborate your situation ?

sreevirus said:
and the X Window system doesnt help mush either. even as admin, i cant browse to some folders which i can do thru command line....
Which directories are you talking about ..... I can browse through my entire filesystem through konqueror/Nautilus....

sreevirus said:
WHY? why cant i do the same tasks thru X but only thru the terminal? :(
That's because no body has written GUI program for that particular task you're talking about... would you care to write one ???

sreevirus said:
again, i can surely say that there WILL be viruses for Linux nomatter what, if linux were to become a generally accepted desktop OS. virus coders just wanna cause trouble to the user,
But in that case you'll get its patches next morning itself, unlike MS wherein you get service packs according to Microsoft's own schedule

sreevirus said:
and there ARE viruses coded for Linux/Unix, and if i'm not mistaken,
Sure there are.... but even then GNU/Linux OS is safer because you dont have Macro Viruses, Silly Trojans, VBS based scripting worms.... Boot sector viruses.... Yes you can get infected, but only if you are careless enough to run ur system in root mode...

sreevirus said:
why r anti-virus s/w's like QtFprot made for linux if linux was totally immune from virus attacks?? its just a matter of HOW MANY PPL USE LINUX, the more they use, the more virus will be created...its just vandalism.
Many of those antivirus packages are actually made for protecting windows computers... you know Linux/UNIX is used by many ISPs as their Mail servers.... these AV packages scan viruses that propagate via email...
 
OP
B

borg

In the zone
phew. I am appaulled. These guys are talking about MS as if it didn't make anything at all & nothing works. If that was the case I don't even know how I am typing this message. Why is my Windows 2k not crashing. Why haven't I had to reinstall my windows for almost a year???. Must be a freak incident.

All I can say is- its been a good discussion. Lets all use what we like. I continue to use Windows, have no intention of going Linux whatsoever. I am primarily a gamer & have nouse for Linux at this stage. You guys use your Linux & let us all be happy.
 

GNUrag

FooBar Guy
borg said:
Why is my Windows 2k not crashing. Why haven't I had to reinstall my windows for almost a year???. Must be a freak incident.
My Debian GNU/Linux Server at my organization has not been restarted since past three years... sure that must also have been a freak incident... isnt it ?

In fact, when it was installed, it was Debian 'Potato' and now it got upgraded to Debian 'Woody' without even restarting that server or popping any CD... everything upgraded via internet using apt-get upgrade .... Is that possible in Win2k ? Is this not an innovation ???

borg said:
All I can say is- its been a good discussion.
Yes indeed....

borg said:
Lets all use what we like. I continue to use Windows, have no intention of going Linux whatsoever.
And i continue to use my Debian GNU/Linux Box on which strangely everything works fine with me...
 
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