Power Strip/Surge Protector vs UPS

[samthechamp]

[MENTION=284891]samthechamp[/MENTION], the answer to your query is in the quoted text in your post itself.

I didn't really undeestand what he meant by that.Should I use a surge protector with inverter?I have heard that's bad for both of them.And there are no technical specs of any inverter like sukam and luminous regarding any surge protection or "synchronization". Can you recommend any inverter which has these.?

[MENTION=105611]bssunilreddy[/MENTION] thanks for the suggestion.I am currently thinking to buy BAVK UPS PRO 1100VA ,it has better surge protection and design and some features.Can you please tell me if it will be possible to use exide or any third company batteries with the model in future if I want to replace them?I have seen posts about changing batteries of bck UPS but not back ups pro.

 

[whitestar_999]

I think he meant use a digital inverter with "pure sine wave" feature with/without(not sure about this but personally i prefer using a ups also) a normal ups.

 

[kARTechnology]

If you want to go hyper protective:

Technically Speaking, In my shop, which is in a village, only we use 3 phase line to power3-phase Ducted Central AC's
Due to bad Power conditions, initially the motors got burnt, LED Light's Electronic Ballast / Driver Fails (which is not supposed to happen)
so what ever I tried, it didn't make a change, computer, CCTV DVR's and other electronic devices faced a huge failure when a neutral was cut few years back.

I needed to take care of all these things, whatever might happen in the world it must not fail, due to the investment made on them.

it requires:
3 phases to be in correct sequence (1-Red,2-Yellow,3-Blue)
3 phases voltage difference should be in acceptable limits (15-20%)
3 phases voltage should be in correct range (each phase 180v-260v / phase to phase 380v-440v)
Frequency within limits.
Power on Time Delay
All 3 phases must be present at all times.

for this you might think it will cost a fortune, to prevent the devices from failing, BUT if it is OK for you to switch off the power to these equipment, when any thing happens , instead of providing a battery backup(could install a inverter to computers and DVR in the middle), you could install a industry-standard device:

GIC SM500 Voltage monitoring Relay(Analog, Cheap around 0.7-1k) (I'm using this one)
or
Rishab Digital Line Monitoring Relay(Digital, around 2.5k)

so along with this, and a pure sinewave inverter for computers and DVRs from MEDI, (robust, can withstand neutral failure as well, experienced personally(the display showed 355v...the neutral was floating!)) I can ensure that the equipment is safe all the time.

and you need additional relay [ contactor in electrical terms ] based on your load to switch on/off the power to the devices. which costs depending upon load carrying capacity.
Left : Meter for displaying various parameters, Right: GIC SM500 Voltage monitoring Relay
*s28.postimg.org/jv3mpgwb1/IMG_20151101_180056.jpg

the taped up portion
*gicindia.com/img/MG73BH.jpg

how a 32A AC3 rating Contactor looks(for AC)...for computers a 10A one is more than enough!
*s19.postimg.org/ypn11ngqa/IMG_20160108_151546.jpg

These things will fit in a standard DIN rail, that is in our MCB DB also.

                            |--> Inverter --> Computers, DVR's
So Mainline --> Contactor---|--> Devices(Air Con) 
          |            ^ 
          |            |
           -> Voltage Monitor

like this Voltage Montitor, we can also install a Earth Leakage Monitoring relay, etc. If any more info needed, reply!

- - - Updated - - -

I didn't really undeestand what he meant by that.Should I use a surge protector with inverter?I have heard that's bad for both of them.And there are no technical specs of any inverter like sukam and luminous regarding any surge protection or "synchronization". Can you recommend any inverter which has these.?

[MENTION=105611]bssunilreddy[/MENTION] thanks for the suggestion.I am currently thinking to buy BAVK UPS PRO 1100VA ,it has better surge protection and design and some features.Can you please tell me if it will be possible to use exide or any third company batteries with the model in future if I want to replace them?I have seen posts about changing batteries of bck UPS but not back ups pro.

yes, the back ups pro battery can be replaced by exide / amaron ones, DIY

synchronization: this wont be specified by luminous or sukam because they don't have it...
it means when power cut occurs, instead of blindly switching the load to battery,
the inverter's micro processor will be constantly monitoring the sine wave output of the mains, note the point exactly at which the power cut occurs, and use the digital signal processor to give output to the load from the battery EXACTLY at that point onward,

I think you might not understand what I'm telling :silly_NF:

*s19.postimg.org/nvjd4y1rl/Capture.png

that's why these inverters delay from battery to main power when the main power returns, they wait for the sine waves to match.
the computer will not even know barely that it has been transferred to battery ( though the very very small delay )

 

[whitestar_999]

[MENTION=138043]kARTechnology[/MENTION],very good post.Can you also post some indian online shopping site links to purchase inverters with "synchronization" feature?

 

[kARTechnology]

[MENTION=138043]kARTechnology[/MENTION],very good post.Can you also post some indian online shopping site links to purchase inverters with "synchronization" feature?

I bought those inverters from eBay 2 years back[have 3 of them(2x2kva 24v and a 1kva 12v solar charger inbuilt, but haven't used solar still))]...still going strong, the company is NIXOWN, but the original motherboard OEM /Design is by MEDI ...This is the only Indian product that has not failed on me upto now.

the inverter comes with a 1/2/4 line lcd display with various parameters

there are many inverters in local market with this motherboard, but you need to search for the quality components and proper manufacturer. If you contact Nixown via phone I think they will definitely help to place an order by using eBay

Link to MEDI website
Sinewave Inverte

The system will consider the mains voltage as OK when the mains is within a specified range. In inverter mode the acceptable range is from 100V to 285V and in UPS mode this is from 180V to 265V. When the mains voltage cross this range the system will activate the inverter if the standby mode is ON (front panel switch is ON). The software is giving a hysterisis gap for the changeover voltages. For example in UPS mode if the mains voltage is dropped below 180V the system will changeover to inverter but the system will return to mains if the mains voltage rises above 190V. That is, there is a gap of 10V. This is for the stability of the changeover. For low voltage changeover the hysterisis gap is 10V and in high voltage changeover the gap is 5V. This is because high voltage changeover will get a natural hysterisis. In UPS mode the changeover to inverter will be fast and in synchronous with mains waveform. In inverter mode the changeover will be comparatively slow, but will be in synchronous with mains waveform. Slow starting of the system is done if the mains is already absent and the standby mode is switched on in the absence of mains.
Fast changeover considerations The mains-inverter and inverter-mains changeover will be in synchronous with the mains waveform. For correct synchronous changeover the polarity of the transformer connection should be correct. This is automatically done by the system whenever the inverter is turned on. If the polarity is OK the inverter work normally. If the polarity is not correct the buzzer beeps continuously. If it happens, switch off the inverter and reverse the primary connection of the transformer. In UPS mode the relay fastening voltage is very important for the fast changeover from mains inverter. This is connected through 2 pin connector CN3. Without this support there is a risk of computer ree-boot and rare chance for mosfet failure. Even when the front panel switch is off (standby off) the system will switch on the relay and will forcefully switch off the charger if the mains voltage is very high. This is for protecting the transformer and the MOSFETs from high voltages.

Inverter mode When the system is in standby mode the inverter will start if the mains is not in acceptable range. As stated above the smooth start will be done if the standby mode is switched on in the absence of mains. In inverter mode the system will be continuously checking the mains and if the mains is acceptable the system will try to synchronous the inverter waveform with mains. The inverter to mains changeover will happen only after the mains-inverter synchronization is correct.

 

[whitestar_999]

Is it possible that those digital inverters with micro controller(from big companies like microtek,sukam,luminous) also have this "synchronization" feature even if not advertised(as it is too technical for avg users)?

 

[kARTechnology]

Is it possible that those digital inverters with micro controller(from big companies like microtek,sukam,luminous) also have this "synchronization" feature even if not advertised(as it is too technical for avg users)?

microtek will not have it since they use maximum all analog, which is prone for repairs and made to be repaired.
luminous and sukam too...biggest sellers and crap quality, whines a lot, and vists to service center frequently when the power input is worse..

I had 2x PowerZen 800va few years back(2007-08 I think)....After a loong search and from their can't load slow website downloaded a pdf..It has synchronization
*s19.postimg.org/cm40pc8he/Capture.jpg

and it did fail when there was an electrical issue when for a split second the generator's output went into the inverter's output and the whole board fried.
Then it the board was replaced by a AMARON iACE board locally, which was simply perfect fit & the display connectors also matched with the board (they use the same board maybe!!!)

and the other powerzen after 5 years of hard work in harsh environemnt, the output current sensor(technically "current transformer") was faulty hence it was unable to power loads greater then 300va, so I used to power my laptop in car with this (pure sinewave for laptop charger in car!)

so I think the AMARON iACE inverters will have this synchronization feature, and the build quality is much better than competing brands.
this board in powerzen casing has been running in my house for last 3-4 years.No whines, absolutely silent except fan running sometimes.

similarly a Exide 800va LCD one, not even 1 year and its motherboard's "input power sensing component" went kaput(stays in battery mode forever!) and got whole board replaced under warranty last month due to the same reverse power from genset issue in another place. thinking of replacing with a MEDI unit and use Exide elsewhere

 

[Inceptionist]

I go for UPS > Surge Protector > PC.