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Pasapa

Live to die another day
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Airtel 4g
 

kg11sgbg

Indian Railways - The Vibrant and Moving INDIA
I don't think @kg11sgbg play online games.
Absolutely correct,rather I am a you-tuber(video buff) watching NOT CINEMAS/MOVIES, but various unboxing + reviews on Laptops,Tablets,2-in-1 hybrids,wifi devices,etc. IT Hardware and above all the various beautiful+amazing+pathbreaking journey videos in INDIAN RAILWAYS.
 

whitestar_999

Super Moderator
Staff member
Why such reactions?Excitel is giving 100mbps unlimited for 750 or 850 in many parts of Delhi.Though connection stability & using it fully is another matter.For starters it is not possible to fully use such connection on a single system when using conventional 7200rpm hdd in desktop & forget about 5400rpm hdd in laptop.Second you need to have good download sources too to fully utilize such connections(aka private trackers,premium filehost access etc).Third,connection stability is not good in many cases meaning multiple downtimes ranging from a few minutes to an hour in a day.
 

sohan_92

In the zone
Why such reactions?Excitel is giving 100mbps unlimited for 750 or 850 in many parts of Delhi.Though connection stability & using it fully is another matter.For starters it is not possible to fully use such connection on a single system when using conventional 7200rpm hdd in desktop & forget about 5400rpm hdd in laptop.Second you need to have good download sources too to fully utilize such connections(aka private trackers,premium filehost access etc).Third,connection stability is not good in many cases meaning multiple downtimes ranging from a few minutes to an hour in a day.
Atleast, we can stream full HD or 4k on Smart TV. Right? If third point is not there. That's why waiting for OP's reply.
 

whitestar_999

Super Moderator
Staff member
Again,forget about streaming full HD/4k by using the usual 150/300mbps N router over wifi unless you want to connect all devices by gigabit ethernet.Of course as long as connection works you can stream 1080p or 4k assuming capable networking hardware.
 

dan4u

Took Off!!!
Why such reactions?Excitel is giving 100mbps unlimited for 750 or 850 in many parts of Delhi.Though connection stability & using it fully is another matter.For starters it is not possible to fully use such connection on a single system when using conventional 7200rpm hdd in desktop & forget about 5400rpm hdd in laptop.Second you need to have good download sources too to fully utilize such connections(aka private trackers,premium filehost access etc).Third,connection stability is not good in many cases meaning multiple downtimes ranging from a few minutes to an hour in a day.


Where did you read that it is not possible to fully use such connections on a single system when using conventional 7200rpm hdd in desktop or 5400rpm hdd? Of course its possible. I have a 7200rpm hdd and I'm getting ~94 mbps (11.5 MB/s) download speeds, here's an example,


http://imgur.com/a/Tzqz








100 mbps speed should theoretically get you 12.5 MB/s download speeds, any 7200rpm or 5400rpm hdd can easily handle that.


and regarding streaming via wifi, full HD is easily possible on any device nowadays, and for 4k steaming, if your device supports 5ghz wifi bandwidth (most laptops, phones, consoles do nowadays) then 4k steaming without any hiccups is also possible.
 
Last edited:

whitestar_999

Super Moderator
Staff member
Where did you read that it is not possible to fully use such connections on a single system when using conventional 7200rpm hdd in desktop or 5400rpm hdd? Of course its possible. I have a 7200rpm hdd and I'm getting ~94 mbps (11.5 MB/s) download speeds, here's an example,


http://imgur.com/a/Tzqz

100 mbps speed should theoretically get you 12.5 MB/s download speeds, any 7200rpm or 5400rpm hdd can easily handle that.


and regarding streaming via wifi, full HD is easily possible on any device nowadays, and for 4k steaming, if your device supports 5ghz wifi bandwidth (most laptops, phones, consoles do nowadays) then 4k steaming without any hiccups is also possible.
Because I have experience with such connections.I never said you can not achieve 100mbps download speed on a 7200/5400rpm hdd,I said "not possible to fully use such connections" by which I meant "not possible to use such connections for full time/most of the time downloading".I have seen 5th gen/6th gen i3 laptops running win 8.1/win 10 crawling with disk usage reaching or crossing 80% while downloading at full 75/100mbps.I have also seen desktops with 7200rpm OS hdd & another 7200rpm secondary storage/download hdd struggling while downloading at full 100mbps while trying to run some other cpu/ram intensive task like multiple browser tabs or playing HD high bit rate videos.Also you may not know it but just because a connection speed is 12.5MB/s does not mean a download is being written at the disk too at same 12.5MB/s,it is much more than that.OS has to calculate various things while downloading as each downloading session consists of hundreds or thousands of packets each of which has to be analysed by OS for things like checksum,acknowledgement etc.Just open task manager in any laptop running win 8.1/10,start downloading at full 100mbps & see disk usage going over 80% in a matter of seconds.

Again,either you don't do too much streaming or do it within same room.

First of all most people don't have AC routers(you see flipkart/amazon & best/top selling ones are usual tplink or dlink 300mbps N routers).

Second,most people who bought their laptops 1-1.5 years ago don't have AC wifi adapter.The cheapest AC wifi usb adapter of Dlink costs around 1300 & again most people buy the usual 300mbps usb wifi N adapter costing 600-700.

Third,HD streaming is not that easy even on 300mbps N wifi because of interference from other 2.4GHz wifi networks.Such high speed connections are found only in urban areas where probability of interference from surrounding 2.4GHz wifi networks is also the highest(all the areas I lived in,this was true).You may be able to stream on same floor but on floors above or below(assuming it is a 2 story house) getting good enough signal for HD wifi streaming is very difficult.Even on same floor the usual cheap routers(costing below 1500) won't be able to handle load of simultaneous HD streaming along with downloading on another system.

Fourth,as for 5GHz wifi,yes it has the bandwidth but again 5GHz has lesser range than 2.4GHz(principles of wave physics).Also to fully utilize 5GHz wifi one need AC wifi in all devices which is not that common as of now(unless all of your wifi devices are bought in last 4-5 months).One also needs a good AC wifi router with good cpu & ram to handle increased bandwidth load which is not found in AC routers costing below 3-4k as of now.
 

dan4u

Took Off!!!
Because I have experience with such connections.I never said you can not achieve 100mbps download speed on a 7200/5400rpm hdd,I said "not possible to fully use such connections" by which I meant "not possible to use such connections for full time/most of the time downloading".




And why do you think its not possible to download all the time? as long as the source has proper seeds or good server uptimes ( like steam/origin) then there shouldn't be any problem.

If you're saying the ISP will throttle speeds then in my case that's not true, I've been on this ISP for 4 months with zero downtimes and consistent speeds throughout a download.


here's an image of the average download speed of the earlier file.
10.9 Mib/s is ~91.4Mbps


2610olk.jpg





I have seen 5th gen/6th gen i3 laptops running win 8.1/win 10 crawling with disk usage reaching or crossing 80% while downloading at full 75/100mbps.I have also seen desktops with 7200rpm OS hdd & another 7200rpm secondary storage/download hdd struggling while downloading at full 100mbps while trying to run some other cpu/ram intensive task like multiple browser tabs or playing HD high bit rate videos.

Now you're bringing in variables like cpu, multiple browser tabs, palying hd video etc while downloading, Hardisks are supposed to be working even when they're on 80% load, being at 80% load is not a negative thing, if you want to reduce disk usage then either adjust your workload or upgrade your hardware.

I personally have a 5 year old 3rd gen laptop and a 7 year old hp one running on core 2 duo, both of which don't face issues while downloading and browsing/watching hd viseos at the same time. And on my desktop I'll be gaming, have multiple browser tabs and have downloads in the background without any issues.




Also you may not know it but just because a connection speed is 12.5MB/s does not mean a download is being written at the disk too at same 12.5MB/s,it is much more than that.OS has to calculate various things while downloading as each downloading session consists of hundreds or thousands of packets each of which has to be analysed by OS for things like checksum,acknowledgement etc.Just open task manager in any laptop running win 8.1/10,start downloading at full 100mbps & see disk usage going over 80% in a matter of seconds.


That's why I said Theoretically it should be 12.5MB/s, I know in real world scenarios full 100 mbps is not possible regardless of which ISP you're using (even if you're on Google fiber). Again disk usage over 80% is not a negative thing, if that bothers you then you should upgrade your hardware.



Again,either you don't do too much streaming or do it within same room.

First of all most people don't have AC routers(you see flipkart/amazon & best/top selling ones are usual tplink or dlink 300mbps N routers).

Second,most people who bought their laptops 1-1.5 years ago don't have AC wifi adapter.The cheapest AC wifi usb adapter of Dlink costs around 1300 & again most people buy the usual 300mbps usb wifi N adapter costing 600-700.

Third,HD streaming is not that easy even on 300mbps N wifi because of interference from other 2.4GHz wifi networks.Such high speed connections are found only in urban areas where probability of interference from surrounding 2.4GHz wifi networks is also the highest(all the areas I lived in,this was true).You may be able to stream on same floor but on floors above or below(assuming it is a 2 story house) getting good enough signal for HD wifi streaming is very difficult.Even on same floor the usual cheap routers(costing below 1500) won't be able to handle load of simultaneous HD streaming along with downloading on another system.

Fourth,as for 5GHz wifi,yes it has the bandwidth but again 5GHz has lesser range than 2.4GHz(principles of wave physics).Also to fully utilize 5GHz wifi one need AC wifi in all devices which is not that common as of now(unless all of your wifi devices are bought in last 4-5 months).One also needs a good AC wifi router with good cpu & ram to handle increased bandwidth load which is not found in AC routers costing below 3-4k as of now.



First you're bringing in variables like what people may or may not have ( flipkart/amazon sells more 300mbps N routers because that's enough for most people and most people still get N routers because they are on slower broadband connections), flipkart/amazon also has many AC router sales, I personally have a D-link dir 816 which is one of the cheapest simultaneous dual band AC routers out there and it works flawlessly for my needs.




Second, I agree most people still don't have AC enabled devices, but even for a 100mbps connections an N router is more than sufficient, its pointless in getting an AC router if you don't have the internet speed or hardware to match it. And the best way to increase the range of your wifi is to change the antenna to higher dBi antennas or buy a repeater, I personally changed the antennas on my parents tp-ink router from 3dBi to 8dBi ones, much better than buying AC enabled smartphones/laptops.


Third & fourth, streaming on wifi is entirely dependent on your distance and obstacles in-between the router and your device whether on AC or N, 2.4ghz has more interference but better range and 5ghz has more throughput but less range, most devices released in the last 5 years support 5ghz (my laptop, nexus 4, op2 etc).


and you don't need AC to fully utilize 5ghz wifi, to fully utilize AC you need a capable 1gbps internet connection (which most people don't have), AC does increase the throughput on the 5ghz band but you will get the same throughput on 5ghz N router for most internet connections, dual band routers (2.4ghz & 5ghz) router have been in the market for nearly 10 years, but they were using different wireless standards like a/b/g/n and now ac.
 

whitestar_999

Super Moderator
Staff member
And why do you think its not possible to download all the time? as long as the source has proper seeds or good server uptimes ( like steam/origin) then there shouldn't be any problem.

If you're saying the ISP will throttle speeds then in my case that's not true, I've been on this ISP for 4 months with zero downtimes and consistent speeds throughout a download.


here's an image of the average download speed of the earlier file.
10.9 Mib/s is ~91.4Mbps


2610olk.jpg
You misunderstood,what I meant was that it is not possible to always download at full 100mbps if it slows down the system for other tasks you might want to do on your system.


Now you're bringing in variables like cpu, multiple browser tabs, palying hd video etc while downloading, Hardisks are supposed to be working even when they're on 80% load, being at 80% load is not a negative thing, if you want to reduce disk usage then either adjust your workload or upgrade your hardware.

I personally have a 5 year old 3rd gen laptop and a 7 year old hp one running on core 2 duo, both of which don't face issues while downloading and browsing/watching hd viseos at the same time. And on my desktop I'll be gaming, have multiple browser tabs and have downloads in the background without any issues.
I don't know how it is but as far as 80% load thing is considered,that is a fact.Get any laptop with win 8.1/10(core i3 5th/6th/7th gen 4gb ram typical configuration),start download at 100mbps & within few seconds when hdd load crosses 80% try opening any program or new browser tab with streaming/flash content & you will see.There is a reason people buy ssd as their load will not even cross 20% under these similar conditions where a 5400rpm hdd is reaching 80% disk usage.


That's why I said Theoretically it should be 12.5MB/s, I know in real world scenarios full 100 mbps is not possible regardless of which ISP you're using (even if you're on Google fiber). Again disk usage over 80% is not a negative thing, if that bothers you then you should upgrade your hardware.
Again you misunderstood,I was not talking about "connection speed of 100mbps".I was talking about your misconception that a 100mbps connection will write to hdd at 12.5MB/s.It is not so,a 100mbps connection with 12.5MB/s download may result in writing at the rate of 30-40MB/s to hdd because of the factors I mentioned earlier(that is why there are caches on ram & hdd).


First you're bringing in variables like what people may or may not have ( flipkart/amazon sells more 300mbps N routers because that's enough for most people and most people still get N routers because they are on slower broadband connections), flipkart/amazon also has many AC router sales, I personally have a D-link dir 816 which is one of the cheapest simultaneous dual band AC routers out there and it works flawlessly for my needs.
Just because you know something does not always mean you are in majority.You are making an assumption that most people buy N routers because they got slow net connection.I have seen ISPs giving & recommending 300mbps N routers for their 50mbps-100mbps net connection that too with incorrect encryption setting(TKIP+AES) which will limit the max wifi speed to 54mbps.


Second, I agree most people still don't have AC enabled devices, but even for a 100mbps connections an N router is more than sufficient, its pointless in getting an AC router if you don't have the internet speed or hardware to match it. And the best way to increase the range of your wifi is to change the antenna to higher dBi antennas or buy a repeater, I personally changed the antennas on my parents tp-ink router from 3dBi to 8dBi ones, much better than buying AC enabled smartphones/laptops.
Again you seems to have a misconception that many people have regarding using higher dBi antennas to increase range.It is not just antenna but the transmission power of wifi radio chipset that drives the antenna which is mainly responsible for range.Some routers have better quality & better optimized radio chipsets & that's why they have a better range with similar dBi antennas while other cheaper models don't.You can put a 9dBi antenna on a 841N & still it will not be able to match the range of good wifi routers costing 8k & above.Wifi is 2 way traffic,no matter how far your transmitter(aka higher dBi antennas on router) can send the signal,it is of no use if the receiving device does not have enough re-transmission power to send it back to source & that is why you see those negative reviews on shopping sites where people claim there is not much difference or no difference after buying these 9dbi antennas.Yes they may be better than those 3dbi antennas on tplink router but then it was their low end model which doesn't have a good range to begin with.
P.S.Transmission power of all wifi devices is restricted for civilian uses because of its potential misuses.

Third & fourth, streaming on wifi is entirely dependent on your distance and obstacles in-between the router and your device whether on AC or N, 2.4ghz has more interference but better range and 5ghz has more throughput but less range, most devices released in the last 5 years support 5ghz (my laptop, nexus 4, op2 etc).
Check out ddwrt & openwrt hardware pages of routers.Why do you think high end models come with better & faster cpu & 128mb ram?It is like saying as long as it is a win 10 desktop,it doesn't matter whether it has i7 7th gen processor or intel pentium G4560 processor.Router runs on its own linux based OS & just like any other OS,the more hardware resources it has the better it will work.Streaming is one of the most intensive tasks that a router can run & that is why on any good networking site abroad nobody recommends anything below $100-150 for good HD streaming.
You are completely wrong about most devices(at least laptops) in last 5 years being dual band compatible.I don't know which laptop you bought or how you know it has 5GHz support but my friend bought an asus laptop with nvidia 930m last year & he got 2.4GHz N wifi.In fact these latest 40k costing dell inspiron laptops come with 2.4GHz N wifi: Inspiron 15 3567 | Dell India

and you don't need AC to fully utilize 5ghz wifi, to fully utilize AC you need a capable 1gbps internet connection (which most people don't have), AC does increase the throughput on the 5ghz band but you will get the same throughput on 5ghz N router for most internet connections, dual band routers (2.4ghz & 5ghz) router have been in the market for nearly 10 years, but they were using different wireless standards like a/b/g/n and now ac.
See the above point about difference between low end cheap routers & high end costly routers.Also you seems to have very little idea about wifi networking knowledge.AC routers use entirely different technology(namely 80/160MHz wide channels,more spatial streams & MU-MIMO),there is no comparison between them & N routers.
 

dan4u

Took Off!!!
You misunderstood,what I meant was that it is not possible to always download at full 100mbps if it slows down the system for other tasks you might want to do on your system.

Of course that's a given.


I don't know how it is but as far as 80% load thing is considered,that is a fact.Get any laptop with win 8.1/10(core i3 5th/6th/7th gen 4gb ram typical configuration),start download at 100mbps & within few seconds when hdd load crosses 80% try opening any program or new browser tab with streaming/flash content & you will see.There is a reason people buy ssd as their load will not even cross 20% under these similar conditions where a 5400rpm hdd is reaching 80% disk usage.


It might spike at 80% but not remain at 80% throughout the download, and again low spec hardware will have certain limitations.



Again you misunderstood,I was not talking about "connection speed of 100mbps".I was talking about your misconception that a 100mbps connection will write to hdd at 12.5MB/s.It is not so,a 100mbps connection with 12.5MB/s download may result in writing at the rate of 30-40MB/s to hdd because of the factors I mentioned earlier(that is why there are caches on ram & hdd).

ah ok, I was talking about the connection speed and not the write speed to the hdd.



Just because you know something does not always mean you are in majority.You are making an assumption that most people buy N routers because they got slow net connection.
I have seen ISPs giving & recommending 300mbps N routers for their 50mbps-100mbps net connection that too with incorrect encryption setting(TKIP+AES) which will limit the max wifi speed to 54mbps.


Well, I should have said most people buy N routers because that's the most common routers today and they are relatively cheap and that's what most ISP's give for a new connection , a/b/g routers are practically dead in the market, what I meant by the slow speed is, most people will never use the full potential of the N router since even now most connection bandwidths is slow, unless its a fiber connection.



Again you seems to have a misconception that many people have regarding using higher dBi antennas to increase range.It is not just antenna but the transmission power of wifi radio chipset that drives the antenna which is mainly responsible for range.Some routers have better quality & better optimized radio chipsets & that's why they have a better range with similar dBi antennas while other cheaper models don't.You can put a 9dBi antenna on a 841N & still it will not be able to match the range of good wifi routers costing 8k & above.Wifi is 2 way traffic,no matter how far your transmitter(aka higher dBi antennas on router) can send the signal,it is of no use if the receiving device does not have enough re-transmission power to send it back to source & that is why you see those negative reviews on shopping sites where people claim there is not much difference or no difference after buying these 9dbi antennas.Yes they may be better than those 3dbi antennas on tplink router but then it was their low end model which doesn't have a good range to begin with.
P.S.Transmission power of all wifi devices is restricted for civilian uses because of its potential misuses.


Of course the transmission power of the router matters, and I don't think the 841n has detachable antennas. Certain tp-link (and other companies) models have decent radio chipsets but are equipped with weak detachable antennas or has an extra port for another antenna, that's how they sell the higher dBi antennas. That's also why I mentioned to use repeaters if changing antennas was not possible.

P.S Yea, that's understood but probably hardly enforced in India, and if money isn't an issue systems like the ones below will be better choice for seamless range extension and better monitoring rather than a single router

BT Whole Home Wi-Fi (088269) | BT Shop
https://www.amazon.in/Ubiquiti-Netw...coding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=97M7R525ZCHXXQRZA7QD



Check out ddwrt & openwrt hardware pages of routers.Why do you think high end models come with better & faster cpu & 128mb ram?It is like saying as long as it is a win 10 desktop,it doesn't matter whether it has i7 7th gen processor or intel pentium G4560 processor.Router runs on its own linux based OS & just like any other OS,the more hardware resources it has the better it will work.Streaming is one of the most intensive tasks that a router can run & that is why on any good networking site abroad nobody recommends anything below $100-150 for good HD streaming.
You are completely wrong about most devices(at least laptops) in last 5 years being dual band compatible.I don't know which laptop you bought or how you know it has 5GHz support but my friend bought an asus laptop with nvidia 930m last year & he got 2.4GHz N wifi.In fact these latest 40k costing dell inspiron laptops come with 2.4GHz N wifi: Inspiron 15 3567 | Dell India


It all depends on the user and what their usage is like, if its mere HD streaming/downloading etc to a few devices then the mid range consumer grade router is more then enough, now if they want to stream in 4k or have a plex server or htpc or have extended range then what you say makes sense, and about devices being dual band compatible, most handheld devices have been dual band capable for the last few years, maybe not laptops, but my samsung laptop released 5 years ago was dual band capable (Intel advanced-n 6235 radio).



See the above point about difference between low end cheap routers & high end costly routers.Also you seems to have very little idea about wifi networking knowledge.AC routers use entirely different technology(namely 80/160MHz wide channels,more spatial streams & MU-MIMO),there is no comparison between them & N routers.


yea I know AC has many advancements over N like beamforming and all what you mentioned, but AC only works on 5ghz, the current iteration of AC doesn't work on 2.4ghz, all the routers that advertise as dual band ac don't mention that when you use the 2.4ghz band you're using the N band by default. And like you said many devices still don't support dual band forget ac, and N actually supports both 2.4ghz and 5ghz.
 
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