Intel Makes 22nm 3-D Tri-Gate Tech for Ivy Bridge

[vickybat]

x86 (atom and brazos) will never be as power efficient as ARM. why?

if u want to compete with ARM...design something power efficient from scratch rather than optimizing x86 as an aftermath. ARM is designed for performance & power efficiency from the beginning itself. unlike x86. x86 is designed for performance.

just like windows will never be as secure as linux. windows treats security as an aftermath unlike linux which is designed for security from the bottom.

Wrong again mate. Performance and efficiency should be a combination and work in tandem rather than a one man show. You say that x86 was designed for performance. But looking at current trends on how power efficient processors are turning out to be without sacrificing performance(in fact giving more performance/watt) it won't be surprisisng at all to see x86 taking over arm if players like intel and amd concentrate seriously on it.

Superior fabrication techniques will only bring down power requirements and pave way for Soc's competing with the ARM counterparts. Intel has officially announced of going the soc way and concentrate more on mobile computing.
Now that is not an understatement and they clearly mean business. Lets see for how long ARM hold on.

About windows and linux, we can't start a debate on that here. But linux has fewer security threats relatively because of lack of users compared to windows and the amount of applications used. So the former is an easy target. If hackers concentrate on programming malwares and viruses on the linux platform, then it will be equally vulnerable.

 

[Joker]

but Intel makes really power efficient chips when the size is big (Atom>Brazos & Core i3/i5/i7 >>> Phenom2/Athlon2). will be interesting to see how can they compete when the size of chip is really really small.

correction: Brazos >>> atom.

guess what? atom N series for netbooks is a die of 88 sq mm. brazos is a die of 74 sq mm which also contains the GPU. over 75% of the die is GPU. we can see which CPU is moar die efficient.

AMD can't license their X86 license to ARM as the license is given to AMD by Intel. but the opposite is highly likely, AMD getting hold of a Cortex A15 license.

i was only talking about the opposite. amd acquiring an ARM license.

regarding x86 - it is a mutual contract between intel and amd.

amd is using intel's x86
whereas intel is using amd's amd64 in all their processors since core 2 duo. neutrally known as x86_64.

if one breaks contract...the other company can easily respond too.

Wrong again mate. Performance and efficiency should be a combination and work in tandem rather than a one man show. You say that x86 was designed for performance. But looking at current trends on how power efficient processors are turning out to be without sacrificing performance(in fact giving more performance/watt) it won't be surprisisng at all to see x86 taking over arm if players like intel and amd concentrate seriously on it.

Superior fabrication techniques will only bring down power requirements and pave way for Soc's competing with the ARM counterparts. Intel has officially announced of going the soc way and concentrate more on mobile computing.
Now that is not an understatement and they clearly mean business. Lets see for how long ARM hold on.

intel has been concentrated on this since ages and guess what...they have failed till now. amd on the other hand exceeded them in their first attempt which still isnt good enough for mobiles.

amd's ceo got sacked why? lack of mobile market products and iedology. it is obvious x86 isnt going anywhere in the mobile segment.

About windows and linux, we can't start a debate on that here. But linux has fewer security threats relatively because of lack of users compared to windows and the amount of applications used. So the former is an easy target. If hackers concentrate on programming malwares and viruses on the linux platform, then it will be equally vulnerable.

plain old silly argument. no, i wont reply to this. why? explaining things to someone who hasnt used linux is absolutely useless.

but i will say a simple thing. taking off 1000 linux servers (ur ISP, country gateways etc.) can cause much much more damage than taking off only 1000 windows client machines. think about it. linux is 80%+ dominant in server market share fyki.

 

[vickybat]

correction: Brazos >>> atom.

guess what? atom N series for netbooks is a die of 88 sq mm. brazos is a die of 74 sq mm which also contains the GPU. over 75% of the die is GPU. we can see which CPU is moar die efficient.

Yes that may be the case currently but comparing a previous generation die with the current generation doesn't speak anything. Wait for the atom sucessor before passing a verdict.

regarding x86 - it is a mutual contract between intel and amd.

amd is using intel's x86
whereas intel is using amd's amd64 in all their processors since core 2 duo. neutrally known as x86_64.

if one breaks contract...the other company can easily respond too.

X64 was developed by amd and was an extension to the x86 instruction set and used 64 bit registers. Intel then developed IA64 which was radically diferent from amd 64. Eventually x86-64 was made neutral to be used by both vendors.

intel has been concentrated on this since ages and guess what...they have failed till now. amd on the other hand exceeded them in their first attempt which still isnt good enough for mobiles.

amd's ceo got sacked why? lack of mobile market products and iedology. it is obvious x86 isnt going anywhere in the mobile segment.

Everybody has better guesses here. Failed till now doesn't mean that you keep failing for the rest of your life. Think maturely and not like a kid. Your last point literally made me laugh.

You clearly have no idea on x86 computing.

plain old silly argument. no, i wont reply to this. why? explaining things to someone who hasnt used linux is absolutely useless.

but i will say a simple thing. taking off 1000 linux servers (ur ISP, country gateways etc.) can cause much much more damage than taking off only 1000 windows client machines. think about it. linux is 80%+ dominant in server market share fyki.

You were silly enough to reply this. I said before you cannot debate here on it. You are too adamant and stubborn to even reply. You seem like you are a pro linux user here. How many distro's you've used?

Yes its true that linux has the same kernel as the unix platform and is a lot stable. There is no denying that and yes its a clear choice in server platform.
But it has nothing to do with the discussion here. Stay on topic.

 

[Joker]

X64 was developed by amd and was an extension to the x86 instruction set and used 64 bit registers. Intel then developed IA64 which was radically diferent from amd 64. Eventually x86-64 was made neutral to be used by both vendors.

the bolded part is not factually correct.
intel first developed IA64 which was not backwards compatible with x86. amd then came up with amd64/x86_64 which was backwards compatible with x86.
"x86-64 was made neutral to be used by both vendors" - x86_64 is just a "neutral name"
intel's implementation is called em64t or intel 64 which has a couple of things new from amd's implementation. amd licensed amd64/x86_64 to intel.

Yes its true that linux has the same kernel as the unix platform and is a lot stable.

But it has nothing to do with the discussion here. Stay on topic.

it was only an analogy to tell u the difference between developing something from scratch to do a particular task rather than redesigning it as an aftermath.

 

[vickybat]

the bolded part is not factually correct.
intel first developed IA64 which was not backwards compatible with x86. amd then came up with amd64/x86_64 which was backwards compatible with x86.
"x86-64 was made neutral to be used by both vendors" - x86_64 is just a "neutral name"
intel's implementation is called em64t or intel 64 which has a couple of things new from amd's implementation.

IA64 was used by intel itanium processors. EM64T was an extension for their existing line up including the netburst based p4's and the subsequent dual cores. It was well before the conroe based microprocessors.

it was only an analogy to tell u the difference between developing something from scratch to do a particular task rather than redesigning it as an aftermath.

Well your analogy doesn't speak anything in the world of microprocessors. Everything should not be redesigned from scratch if it ain't broke at all. There was never an aftermath in the first place.X86 codepath is diverse and can be used efficiently in mobile computing with the right underlying chip architecture and perhaps intel is doing it right now as we debate.

 

[coderunknown]

guess what? atom N series for netbooks is a die of 88 sq mm. brazos is a die of 74 sq mm which also contains the GPU. over 75% of the die is GPU. we can see which CPU is moar die efficient.

will be interesting to see how they perform on the bigger ones. till now no proper result.

intel has been concentrated on this since ages and guess what...they have failed till now.

smaller fabrication process will only bring them close to ARM counterparts.

it is obvious x86 isnt going anywhere in the mobile segment.

only for now. 22nm or 16nm will bring them to mobile for sure. but how the mobile community accepts it (or rejects it) will be interesting to see.

 

[Joker]

IA64 was used by intel itanium processors. EM64T was an extension for their existing line up including the netburst based p4's and the subsequent dual cores. It was well before the conroe based microprocessors.

i perhaps knw this better than u. why are u saying obvious things?

amd64 = x86_64 = em64t = ia32e = intel 64. most companies call it amd64/x86_64/x64 though.

ia32e/em64t/intel 64 was made only possible after licensing from amd.

Well your analogy doesn't speak anything in the world of microprocessors. Everything should not be redesigned from scratch if it ain't broke at all. There was never an aftermath in the first place.X86 codepath is diverse and can be used efficiently in mobile computing with the right underlying chip architecture and perhaps intel is doing it right now as we debate.

my anology is perfect. u can see why the whole world was using...is using and will be using ARM in mobiles.
despite gettings into an agreement with intel with cross-licensing of technologies...guess what did nvidia choose for its next-gen power efficient processor? ARM. not x86.

all what i have said is. as of now & at least till 4 years...x86 cant compete in the mobile segment as much as ARM. converse is true for client desktops.

 

[rajan1311]

I dont see what the argument is? ARM Vs x86? Why this thread? please can someone split this topic?

 

[vickybat]

i perhaps knw this better than u. why are u saying obvious things?

amd64 = x86_64 = em64t = ia32e = intel 64. most companies call it amd64/x86_64/x64 though.

ia32e/em64t/intel 64 was made only possible after licensing from amd.

You started those obvious things. Why complain now? Knowing better and able to comprehend properly are two different things.

my anology is perfect. u can see why the whole world was using...is using and will be using ARM in mobiles.
despite gettings into an agreement with intel with cross-licensing of technologies...guess what did nvidia choose for its next-gen power efficient processor? ARM. not x86.

all what i have said is. as of now & at least till 4 years...x86 cant compete in the mobile segment as much as ARM. converse is true for client desktops.

Your analogy is rubbish. Its not always wise to develop from scratch. There are a lot other factors associated. Read the following quote from wikipedia:

AMD64 was created as an alternative to Intel and Hewlett Packard's radically different IA-64 architecture. Originally announced in 1999[6] with a full specification in August 2000,[7] the architecture was positioned by AMD from the beginning as an evolutionary way to add 64-bit computing capabilities to the existing x86 architecture, as opposed to Intel's approach of creating an entirely new 64-bit architecture with IA-64

Now tell me what happened to IA-64? It was a failure because intel itanium processors were big flops. They had to revert back to the standards set by x86-64 rather than going with something radically different. In the same way, since ARM is doing good now, does not necessary means its competitor has to develop something entirely different and plan to set new standards.

Unless they are in dire need of a redesign, its absolutely unecessary. Stop arguing foolishly and giving false analogies.

 

[skeletor]

Interesting read: RISC vs. CISC in the mobile era

That article is two years old and not much has changed since then. x86 might finally make into tablets, but mobiles...not any time soon. Low-power is a different game altogether. Lower fabrication will help, but there are bigger things to look into.

I dont see what the argument is? ARM Vs x86? Why this thread? please can someone split this topic?

Doesn't really matter much. Beauty of the forum if you ask me. If it grows out of hand, I'll split it when I get a PC.

 

[bhushan2k]

I dont see what the argument is? ARM Vs x86? Why this thread? please can someone split this topic?

Just get some knowledge from these experts buddy..m enjoying reading this thread..

Interesting read: RISC vs. CISC in the mobile era

That article is two years old and not much has changed since then. x86 might finally make into tablets, but mobiles...not any time soon. Low-power is a different game altogether. Lower fabrication will help, but there are bigger things to look into.

Yup..now m agree with u..it's like a man having huge weight has to do a lot of work to lose his weight similarly with a skinny person has to eat a lot with lots of dedication to gain weight... but one thing is definately true as i said previously, intel HASN'T CONCENTRATED SO MUCH on mobile computing..so arm rocks..

 

[bhushan2k]

ARM Doesn't See Intel's Tri-Gate Technology as a Threat

Source