Businesses Consider Skipping Vista
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MetalheadGautham
AFK
I had windows XP at that time
But I thought(I turned pro only in 2007) I had a virus so it wouldn't run, and forgot all about it. Now me finds it lying around and gets nostalgic.
Completely wrong comparison. What do clothes have to do with software ?Can you guys wear your old clothes, when you were 10 years old, now?
If you've to improve something then you may have to loose on some other thing.
There is nothing very difficult in adding DirectX old versions' compatibility in DirectX 10. MS just chose not to do so.
gxsaurav
You gave been GXified
No, Wrong. Since you do not know what DirectX or Graphics API is, you should first go & read some articles on Wikipedia or even about OpenGL.
DirectX 10 is a completely new graphics API with a completely new graphics driver model which support lots of features such as GPGPU, Virtual GPU etc. These features were not there in old DirectX & thus the compatibility is broken. Only DirectX9L is there in Vista which is able to run content of DirectX 8 or newer in Sandbox enviroment.
Microsoft cannot provide compatibility of DirectX 5 in DirectX 10, it is not possible due to a completely new architecture. Sorry but to provide better features & stability for current generation hardware, MS had to do it. Now cry a river cos your 10 years old game isn't working in Vista.
Hey, u didn't show me screen shots of OpenOffice beta 0.1 running in Ubuntu 8.04.??
MetalheadGautham
AFK
A new API doesn't mean the old one can't exist. You can boot into a different kernel than the current one in Ubuntu if you have installed it.
In simple words, its possible to have multiple versions of directx in the system, and call functions of which ever version is needed by a game.
OpenOffice beta 0.1 ? I forgot the link. Download link please.
I can get you something better instead, for the moment.
Would you like to see Doom on Ubuntu Feisty ?
I am running a game released for X on 1993.
gxsaurav
You gave been GXified
[qquote=MetalheadGautham;840672]You can boot into a different kernel than the current one in Ubuntu if you have installed it.[/quote]
If you have to "reboot" then it takes away the novelty of backward compatibility. In that case you can also "reboot" to Windows XP to run your old game.
no, it is not possible. Direct9c & lower do not support working with WDDM. They have to go through a compatibility layer created by DirectX9L to work with Vista.
Why should I give it? I hate it. You were the one who said u can run it, it's your responsibility to do it not mine. If you can't do it then why u said u can do it?
Yeah, the hardware of today is more powerful due to which ur able to emulate tht OpenGL 1.0 game in OepenGL 2.0. Try running the same game with a 1993 graphics card like Voodoo bansee or S3 Virage
If you have to "reboot" then it takes away the novelty of backward compatibility. In that case you can also "reboot" to Windows XP to run your old game.
no, it is not possible. Direct9c & lower do not support working with WDDM. They have to go through a compatibility layer created by DirectX9L to work with Vista.
Why should I give it? I hate it. You were the one who said u can run it, it's your responsibility to do it not mine. If you can't do it then why u said u can do it?
Yeah, the hardware of today is more powerful due to which ur able to emulate tht OpenGL 1.0 game in OepenGL 2.0. Try running the same game with a 1993 graphics card like Voodoo bansee or S3 Virage
MetalheadGautham
AFK
the beauty lies in the fact that the alternate kernel is just ~30mb in size. tell me if you can strip windows xp to ~30mb and boot into it to run software incompatible with windows vista.
So a compatibility layer exists ?
fine then. I run Doom, which is older and graphics based. So my point is still made.(I can't ever complete last level in nightmare mode, but thats my problem not Linux's problem.)
and you are saying motocross madness can't be run on vista ?
why should I use a 1993 gfx card ? I thought the arguement was about operating system incompatibility, not hardware incompatibility ?
gxsaurav
You gave been GXified
Linux is just the kernel with 3rd party application like KDE or GNome running. Windows XP is the whole OS. If you want to compare size then the size of Windows XP kernel, the ntoskrnl.exe is not more then 12 MB.
... gr8 even XP beats Linux here.Can u boot Linux into new "kernel only", & run Amarok? i guess U will need KDE/GNOME, won't u? This is the same in XP. The kernel is 12 MB only while on top of it other services run.
Yes, & it is the responisibility of game developers to update there game to recognise this compatibility layer. If Valve, Epic & Crytek can do this to make there DirectX 9c titles compatible with Vista then other game developers can to. It's just that money wise it doesn't makse sense.
Really??? Well, even I can run doom. I have a system with Core 2 Duo E6550 & Radeon HD 3650. C2D supports Intel VT & Radeon HD support VPU virtulisation due to which I can run Doom in a Virtual PC running Windows XP which is free from MS Download center without booting into anything. I can even run it in seamless mode.
why should I use a 1993 gfx card ? I thought the arguement was about operating system incompatibility, not hardware incompatibility ?
Hardware & software evolve together. Do you see anyone cribbing cos there nVidia RIVA TNT2 M64 graphics card is no longer working with Vista?
Graphics API has evolved due to which old things will not work. Sorry, but that's the way it is.
Car manufacturing has evolved, due to which Crude petrol used in 1920 will not run a Ferarri today.
MetalheadGautham
AFK
ah yes, but two Kernels can use the same set of softwares in Linux's case. Actually, the kernel is even more small. I know its not bigger than 25mb, because one of the samllest distros with a 100% complete kernel and GUI is 25mb.Linux is just the kernel with 3rd party application like KDE or GNome running. Windows XP is the whole OS. If you want to compare size then the size of Windows XP kernel, the ntoskrnl.exe is not more then 12 MB.
Can u boot Linux into new "kernel only", & run Amarok? i guess U will need KDE/GNOME, won't u? This is the same in XP. The kernel is 12 MB only while on top of it other services run.
Yes, & it is the responisibility of game developers to update there game to recognise this compatibility layer. If Valve, Epic & Crytek can do this to make there DirectX 9c titles compatible with Vista then other game developers can to. It's just that money wise it doesn't makse sense.
Really??? Well, even I can run doom. I have a system with Core 2 Duo E6550 & Radeon HD 3650. C2D supports Intel VT & Radeon HD support VPU virtulisation due to which I can run Doom in a Virtual PC running Windows XP which is free from MS Download center without booting into anything. I can even run it in seamless mode.
Hardware & software evolve together. Do you see anyone cribbing cos there nVidia RIVA TNT2 M64 graphics card is no longer working with Vista?
Graphics API has evolved due to which old things will not work. Sorry, but that's the way it is.
Car manufacturing has evolved, due to which Crude petrol used in 1920 will not run a Ferarri today.
In linux, drivers can be built into the kernel, and new ones patched into the current kernel. And the other applications in linux are not what you call "third party" because the kernel is but a fragment of the main project, where the whole OS lies, and its called "GNU".
Softwares don't "evolve" as in humans, where you have little or no control in your evolution. In software, the programmer has independence to decide what his software can and can't do. OpenGL can effortlessly emulate older environments, and if there are any issues, compatibility layers are called upon to do the work.
Graphics hardwere were never the objective of what I said. Even if I use a C2Q Q9450 system with 8GB DDR3 1600 MHz ram and a 9800GX2 GPU, Windows Vista can't run Motocross Madness without having to waste lots and lots of space installing windows <old>, real or virtual. Hell, even windows XP can't run Motocross Madness.
Here lies the true beauty of operating systems based on the linux kernel and the GNU project. Every effort is put to maximise performance, reduce resource usage and still ensure that older stuff can be easily run.
Windows can never ever do such a thing, not because the OS is not capable of such a thing, but because the developers don't want to add such features.
Even in virtualisation, linux rules. Its native support for virtualisation is much older than vista's. Its also much more effective in doing so, and there are dedicated OSes available to enable an operation which may need an older kernel, such that they remain tiny in size, almost always less than 50mb.
While windows vista could never manage to run older windows games, how could even Linux manage to do that through wine ? And here you don't need to install a 2GB OS. Just a maximum of 90 mb of a software and you have ability to do things windows vista can't but its predecessors could.
Linux out performs windows in almost every single angle. Only recently a couple of months back did Ubuntu Hardy's ALPHA release beat the crap out of Windows Vista Ultimate in Quadro Graphics Benchmarks, and vista later lost to Solaris as well.
But for the Nth time, windows is not even so bad that it CAN'T do something. Its just that it has not been developed in the right track.
gxsaurav
You gave been GXified
Still, 25 MB is more then 12 MB of Windows XP
Windows is not linux. You do not need to built the driver in the kernel. It runs separately so that in any case if the driver crashes, the OS doesn't. This is the reason that if I remove my Radeon HD 3650 & replace it with a GeForce 8200, Windows will not refuse to boot. It will simply boot & install the new drivers via Windows Update. Linux on the other hand will refuse to boot.
Don't care
DirectX 10 can effortlessly emulate DirectX 9c & lower enviroment using DirectX 9l, it's just that software developer needs to tell the game to use DirectX 9l.
Lolz.....
While leaving features like VPU recovery, GPU virtualisation, GPGPU etc....
Who told u that? Did you talk to all developers? A new feature means a method to market there product, only an insane developer will not add features to there software, or if it is Apple.
Tell me, does that 50 MB OS runs Amarok .2 beta without installing anything else in the VM?
Vista can run old games. What WINE is doing is converting directX calls to OpenGL which kills performance. So you are ok with performance hit while running through Wine but not when running through DX 9l.
Lolz....again , it was OpenGL & professional benchmark. Try benchmarking UT 2007
U r a certified Nutjob who doesn't listens to something other are saying. Sorry, my train is at 8 PM, enough of time pass, time to pack bags. Can't humiliate u anymore.
iMav
The Devil's Advocate
Now let him play Motocross on that 6 MB
gxsaurav
You gave been GXified
Lolz...what a comparision.
Windows XP kernel is 12 MB.
Linux kernel is 25 MB
Prakash's Customised Linux kernel with everything he doesn't need removed, support for other hardware then his own removed is 1.4 MB.
Hey, WIndows Vista takes 7 GB here after installation, but my custom VLite Vista takes 3 GB only, just that I cannot run many things on it....
Manan, how much does a 160 GB hard disk costs these days? Rs 2k I guess. Too bad these Linux users are still stuck in 40 GB HD.
what gxsourav wrote in last post is completely bull sh!t and pathetic!not even worth replying.
Sure, it would be better if u don't
iMav
The Devil's Advocate
what gxsourav wrote in last post is completely bull sh!t and pathetic!
iMav
The Devil's Advocate
At the expense of going off topic, a blind follower is some one who does not know what he is doing/talking. Unfortunately for you, I do and therefore know what things like DRM are, who started them and stuff like that, unlike some other members who just find it as an excuse to target only one of the many products that implement it.
The last thing I want is your condolences. I would rather use OS X than accept your condolences.
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