AMD Radeon Graphics Presents: The Fixer

skeletor

Chosen of the Omnissiah
yeah, second best card of whatever the next series is. :)

Linus and Nvidia
Two massive things happened from AMD this year -

[Phoronix] AMD Has Massive Radeon Patch Set - Power Management!

[Phoronix] AMD Releases Open-Source UVD Video Support
 

vickybat

I am the night...I am...
Compute and good performance in Linux with open source driver. My first criteria is open source support always. If I see signs of HD 8950, then I'll get HD 8950.

Any reason for not using binary drivers? Afaik they are pretty good in linux. What advantages does open source drivers have over binary ones?

What compute apps do you use?
 

vickybat

I am the night...I am...
Pretty sure BOINC greatly benefits from GCN.

BOINC is a medium for distributed computing and connects a network of general purpose computer systems for scientific calculations, often done by super computers.
It has full CUDA as well as Open-cl support. One such app is SETI@home. So Nvidia is equally good in this area. I wonder what ico is using that he needs GCN for the task.

Current general compute apps have been more like a gimmick. Its evolving rapidly and yet to cater to a large group. I have folding@home installed but haven't used it for a long stretch yet.
Using the open-cl version as i have an amd gpu. :)
 

skeletor

Chosen of the Omnissiah
Any reason for not using binary drivers? Afaik they are pretty good in linux. What advantages does open source drivers have over binary ones?

What compute apps do you use?
I will mine Litecoin. Plus I am learning OpenCL.

nVidia's binary drivers are good. AMD's drivers lag in supporting X.org releases. AMD binary driver's lazyness only matters if you're using a bleeding edge distro. If you'll go further bleeding edge, i.e. trying out what's happening latest in Wayland/Weston (replacement for X), then it's not supported by any binary driver. So, nVidia's binary driver also fails here. Development of AMD's open source driver goes along with everything in the Linux world. Same with Intel's only driver for Linux which is also open source. Because since Linux has no dynamic switching support, I always disable discrete AMD/nVidia GPUs. No power to them. Only Intel works. (except in Ubuntu where I'm using Catalyst all the time.)

Advantage of Open Source driver if you're using a consumer distribution like Ubuntu? None. Absolute no reason to use OSS drivers in Ubuntu. Ubuntu tends to have old packages and binary drivers work well.

If you're using a bleeding edge distribution - Gentoo, Arch etc, binary drivers can be often late in supporting latest kernel, X.org and can break things.

Having a good open source driver can translate into good out-of-the-box support. If someone installs Ubuntu 14.04 or may be 13.10, he might not even feel the need to install Catalyst driver unless he wants to play Team Fortress 2, Left 4 Dead 2 @ everything high Full HD on Linux.
 

Extreme Gamer

僕はガンダム!
Vendor
BOINC is a medium for distributed computing and connects a network of general purpose computer systems for scientific calculations, often done by super computers.
It has full CUDA as well as Open-cl support. One such app is SETI@home. So Nvidia is equally good in this area. I wonder what ico is using that he needs GCN for the task.

Current general compute apps have been more like a gimmick. Its evolving rapidly and yet to cater to a large group. I have folding@home installed but haven't used it for a long stretch yet.
Using the open-cl version as i have an amd gpu. :)

Yeah but BOINC platform distributed computing applications heavily favour OpenCL over CUDA. And to add to that the Kepler architecture is weak in computing vs the GCN architecture.
 

vickybat

I am the night...I am...
I will mine Litecoin. Plus I am learning OpenCL.

Recently heard about Litecoin, but i have a fair idea on Bitcoins. If you are into mining, then it isn't a good idea in spending on an advanced GPU for the purpose. It doesn't take advantage of a compute architecture but has a more parallel nature(integer perspective). Even the older VLIW based radeons have a more hash rate than the current GCN cards. Mining benefits from a peer to peer network. So a single system isn't an ideal one. Multiple systems are necessary and the correct term would be "distributed computing". You need multiple systems connected to a network in order to achieve maximum hashing frequency. So the decision of going for a single 7950 or upcoming 8950 isn't an ideal choice from a mining only perspective.

There are other FPGA miners available which has a better hash rate at a lower pricepoint. When used in packs (preferably 4 ), one can achieve close to 4 GH/s, and one is definitely going to need this kind of performance for efficient mining. GPGPU for mining has a quite a bit to prove before becoming a standard.

As you should already know, mining algorithm is basically involves reversing a secure hash, notably the SHA 256 in order to create a new block (The central part of the whole mining process. Won't go into details as you should be already knowing it). Now SHA 256 hashing performs poor in nvidia cards because of their inability of efficient integer computation, and SHA 256 is mostly (completely) integer based. VLIW shines here because of its multiple ALU design per SIMD. It can do the integer functions better. Its even better than current GCN in SHA hashing.

This is completely regarding bitcoins. You can throw some light on Litecoin, but i assume they are mostly same.

One thing i would also like to point out that you don't need a specific GPU having better compute resources to learn open-cl. Open-cl runs on CPU too and you can run code without any complexities arising.:)

nVidia's binary drivers are good. AMD's drivers lag in supporting X.org releases. AMD binary driver's lazyness only matters if you're using a bleeding edge distro. If you'll go further bleeding edge, i.e. trying out what's happening latest in Wayland/Weston (replacement for X), then it's not supported by any binary driver. So, nVidia's binary driver also fails here. Development of AMD's open source driver goes along with everything in the Linux world. Same with Intel's only driver for Linux which is also open source. Because since Linux has no dynamic switching support, I always disable discrete AMD/nVidia GPUs. No power to them. Only Intel works. (except in Ubuntu where I'm using Catalyst all the time.)

Advantage of Open Source driver if you're using a consumer distribution like Ubuntu? None. Absolute no reason to use OSS drivers in Ubuntu. Ubuntu tends to have old packages and binary drivers work well.

If you're using a bleeding edge distribution - Gentoo, Arch etc, binary drivers can be often late in supporting latest kernel, X.org and can break things.

Having a good open source driver can translate into good out-of-the-box support. If someone installs Ubuntu 14.04 or may be 13.10, he might not even feel the need to install Catalyst driver unless he wants to play Team Fortress 2, Left 4 Dead 2 @ everything high Full HD on Linux.

Hmmm, i see. What's this bleeding edge distro actually? I don't have much idea on linux distros. I assume its like a custom OS, specific to the user needs and not bloated.
I could be completely wrong though. It would be great if you can shed some fore info here mate. :p
 
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skeletor

Chosen of the Omnissiah
Recently heard about Litecoin, but i have a fair idea on Bitcoins. If you are into mining, then it isn't a good idea in spending on an advanced GPU for the purpose.It doesn't take advantage of a compute architecture but has a more parallel nature(integer perspective). Even the older VLIW based radeons have a more hash rate than the current GCN cards. Mining benefits from a peer to peer network. So a single system isn't an ideal one. Multiple systems are necessary and the correct term would be "distributed computing". You need multiple systems connected to a network in order to achieve maximum hashing frequency. So the decision of going for a single 7950 or upcoming 8950 isn't an ideal choice from a mining only perspective.

There are other FPGA miners available which has a better hash rate at a lower pricepoint. When used in packs (preferably 4 ), one can achieve close to 4 GH/s, and one is definitely going to need this kind of performance for efficient mining. GPGPU for mining has a quite a bit to prove before becoming a standard.

As you should already know, mining algorithm is basically involves reversing a secure hash, notably the SHA 256 in order to create a new block (The central part of the whole mining process. Won't go into details as you should be already knowing it). Now SHA 256 hashing performs poor in nvidia cards because of their inability of efficient integer computation, and SHA 256 is mostly (completely) integer based. VLIW shines here because of its multiple ALU design per SIMD. It can do the integer functions better. Its even better than current GCN in SHA hashing.

This is completely regarding bitcoins. You can throw some light on Litecoin, but i assume they are mostly same.

One thing i would also like to point out that you don't need a specific GPU having better compute resources to learn open-cl. Open-cl runs on CPU too and you can run code without any complexities arising.:)
Whatever you have said is true for Bitcoin. Using cards for Bitcoin mining is dead because of ASICs. Litecoin is memory intensive so is resistant to ASICs and FPGA miners for the forseeable time. Radeon still wins.

And GCN cards have higher hash rate than VLIW cards even in Bitcoin and most oclhashcat-lite bruteforces. I've compared HD 7970 and HD 6970 with oclhashcat-lite for MD5. MD5 HD 7970 = 8200 Mh/s. MD5 HD 6970 = 5300 Mh/s. SHA1 HD 7970 = 2800 Mh/s. SHA1 HD 5970 = 1700 Mh/s. (googled this)

Second, no one mines alone. Everyone mines in a pool. It's de-facto. The reward is then shared. 1 Bitcoin spiked to something like $200 one day.
 

whitestar_999

Super Moderator
Staff member
from today's times of india:
RBI red flags 'virtual currency' - The Times of India
i am pretty sure that RBI will soon take action on this especially after similar US action.
 

Extreme Gamer

僕はガンダム!
Vendor
from today's times of india:
RBI red flags 'virtual currency' - The Times of India
i am pretty sure that RBI will soon take action on this especially after similar US action.

Bitcoin does not work like that. There is no issuer. It cannot be issued as and when pleased. The decentralized P2P system does not allow it.

And as more is mined, less is available (i.e. finite coins). It is a deflating currency, not inflating.

Basically the RBI's concerns are out of sheer ignorance.
 

whitestar_999

Super Moderator
Staff member
seems like you did not understood the article.this is exactly why virtual currencies are being red flagged because of the lack of any associated real currency/legal documentation & decentralized nature which makes them a lucrative option for money laundering.i completely agree with RBI's viewpoint on this matter.money market is one system where lack of legal documentation & proper paper work is a recipe for disaster in making.
Liberty Reserve shut down in $6bn money laundering case - Telegraph
 

Extreme Gamer

僕はガンダム!
Vendor
seems like you did not understood the article.this is exactly why virtual currencies are being red flagged because of the lack of any associated real currency/legal documentation & decentralized nature which makes them a lucrative option for money laundering.i completely agree with RBI's viewpoint on this matter.money market is one system where lack of legal documentation & proper paper work is a recipe for disaster in making.
Liberty Reserve shut down in $6bn money laundering case - Telegraph

Not quite:

"The unregulated link between virtual currency (if permitted), and traditional currency with a legal tender status poses challenges as the complete control over the differently denominated virtual currency is given to its issuer, who governs the scheme and manages the supply of money at will,

Explaining this new online creation, RBI said: "A virtual currency can be defined as a type of unregulated, digital money, which is issued and usually controlled by its developers, and used and accepted among the members of a specific virtual community.

Not the case with decentralized systems. The bitcoin infrastructure is self-regulating.

Liberty Reserve was not a decentralized system. Bitcoin is. Not sure about litecoin.
 

whitestar_999

Super Moderator
Staff member
still that does not change the fact that you can use use bitcoin to send/receive money anonymously.in fact many filehosting sites started accepting bitcoins after paypal banned them only because of this reason.bitcoin itself may be harmless but its usage by criminals/money launderers as a much safer way is what worries RBI & other similar regulatory financial institutions.
 

Extreme Gamer

僕はガンダム!
Vendor
still that does not change the fact that you can use use bitcoin to send/receive money anonymously.in fact many filehosting sites started accepting bitcoins after paypal banned them only because of this reason.bitcoin itself may be harmless but its usage by criminals/money launderers as a much safer way is what worries RBI & other similar regulatory financial institutions.

But where would you convert bitcoin to rupees/dollars/other currencies? AFAIK regulated banks do not accept this currency.
 
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