Windows 8 OEM specs may block Linux booting

T

Tech&ME

Banned
Everyone wants to break apart their competitors. What Microsoft is trying to do is not NEW. Many companies like APPLE has already done so from the beginning itself.

Apple Mac OS is developed on Unix and Linux is also developed based on Unix, yet both are very different and you cannot install Linux apps directly in Mac.

Both use a very different kernel to boot. ( Mac = very restrictive )

So, if MS is trying to do anything similar to what Apple did decades ago, then this is not new.

And I feel Microsoft has its own justification for doing so. ( Fighting Piracy issue could be one of them )
 
V

vaithy

In the zone
Tech&ME said:
Everyone wants to break apart their competitors. What Microsoft is trying to do is not NEW. Many companies like APPLE has already done so from the beginning itself.

Apple Mac OS is developed on Unix and Linux is also developed based on Unix, yet both are very different and you cannot install Linux apps directly in Mac.

Both use a very different kernel to boot. ( Mac = very restrictive )

So, if MS is trying to do anything similar to what Apple did decades ago, then this is not new.

And I feel Microsoft has its own justification for doing so. ( Fighting Piracy issue could be one of them )
Click to expand...

this is going to comparing it apples with oranges..apple is the sole manufacturer of Hardware along with the OS installed.. so no question of other OS..so there is no monopoly there..But Ms is OS vendor, and its hardware is manufactured by its partners (OEM)No fault there.. But M$ is forcing the the OEM to sell only windows installed PC and license it, with a rider that it sell no other OS installed PC. this sort of monopoly has been prohibited in many countries, and M$ itself convicted felony in the USA and escaped by bribing the congressmen,senators ..

If piracy is the sole reason then it should be welcome so FOSS will flourish !
 
T

Tech&ME

Banned
vaithy said:
this is going to comparing it apples with oranges..apple is the sole manufacturer of Hardware along with the OS installed.. so no question of other OS..so there is no monopoly there..But Ms is OS vendor, and its hardware is manufactured by its partners (OEM)No fault there.. But M$ is forcing the the OEM to sell only windows installed PC and license it, with a rider that it sell no other OS installed PC. this sort of monopoly has been prohibited in many countries, and M$ itself convicted felony in the USA and escaped by bribing the congressmen,senators ..

If piracy is the sole reason then it should be welcome so FOSS will flourish !
Click to expand...

YES !!

This were the problem: (read : Mistakes of Microsoft )

1. Microsoft released only the OS as its product. ( from the beginning )

2. Microsoft took a different root, they created OEMs , to run their OS.

3. Microsoft also released RETAIL version of their OS.

---

What Microsoft should have done from the beginning :

1. Microsoft should have gone the APPLE way of doing things.

2. Microsoft should have released hardware tied OS from the beginning.

Market impact of such move from Microsoft would had been :

1. NO Assembled Computer Parts floating in the market.

2. NO Assembled Computer Vendor shops, etc. which we see today.

3. So, credit Microsoft who actually created such a market in the first place.

So, What MICROSOFT gave us :

1. A flourishing ASSEMBLED Computer Parts Market.

Where DID this Mistake of Microsoft lead the company to ?

1. Today, Microsoft is faceing a lot of problems with regard to its OS being taken for a RIDE by every PC user.

2. Piracy bloomed like it was the ultimate thing to do...

NOW the CORRECTION time for Microsoft.

1. Microsoft is aggresively is trying to correct its past mistakes.

WHO will SUFFER in the END ?

1. The Assembled Computer Market will DIE.
 
Liverpool_fan

Liverpool_fan

Sami Hyypiä, LFC legend
Protecting the pre-OS environment with UEFI - Building Windows 8 - Site Home - MSDN Blogs

Interesting read. I would still say there's nothing major to worry about yet.

I would hope it is disabled by default in customer grade machines.
*blogs.msdn.com/cfs-file.ashx/__key/communityserver-blogs-components-weblogfiles/00-00-01-29-43-metablogapi/0624.Figure_2D00_5_2D002D002D00_Samsung_2D00_PC_2D00_secured_2D00_boot_2D00_setting_5F00_thumb_5F00_02016A69.jpg

Tech&ME said:
...
Click to expand...
Seriously? I'm afraid you are looking at the history of PCs in the reverse manner, and getting it all wrong.
 
T

Tech&ME

Banned
^^
He He He................................................. :grin: :grin:

Where I am wrong ?? (History of computers !!!! Ha Ha Ha :grin: :grin:

I have used all the versions of Linux, Windows, Unix, from the day it all started..... !!!!!
 
Liverpool_fan

Liverpool_fan

Sami Hyypiä, LFC legend
No I mean you claimed that Microsoft allowing OEMs to ship their OS and only act as software vendor as a "mistake", when it is certainly not the case as this only brought them amazing level of success, with them owning like 90%+ of the market.
In fact doing the Apple way would have never bought any success, Apple themselves are the testimony if you look at the PC market only. Moreover you seem to be claiming that Assembled PC market got flourished by MSFT, when the case it's the reverse.
 
OP
Garbage

Garbage

God of Mistakes...
I still don't understand why people are becoming so furious over this. Are you missing "may" part of the news? :|
 
T

Tech&ME

Banned
Liverpool_fan said:
No I mean you claimed that Microsoft allowing OEMs to ship their OS and only act as software vendor as a "mistake", when it is certainly not the case as this only brought them amazing level of success, with them owning like 90%+ of the market.
In fact doing the Apple way would have never bought any success, Apple themselves are the testimony if you look at the PC market only. Moreover you seem to be claiming that Assembled PC market got flourished by MSFT, when the case it's the reverse.
Click to expand...

OK then, may I know for whom the equipment were actually manufactured before Microsoft made use of the Assembled Computer Parts ??

I mean to ask , who the hell was using the Assembled Computer Parts before Microsoft released its Windows OS ???

IBM ??? then why did it died out !!

Ponder over this, and you will get your answer!!
 
Liverpool_fan

Liverpool_fan

Sami Hyypiä, LFC legend
Er the assembled PCs/IBM clones which only got MSFT the market. Think for a moment, if their OS was not compatible with IBM PC and their clones would they have achieved the success they got?
I am pretty sure if Microsoft had gone the Apple way, then users would have had no choice but to look at the alternatives (there were next to none at that time). At worst the market would have been delayed but eventually an "open" platform would have won the game.

I am afraid we're going VERY off topic here let's keep it to Windows 8 secure boot and how it will affect other operating systems.
 
T

Tech&ME

Banned
^^

There is NO POINT of compatibility between IBM OS and Microsoft OS. Since, both were the same........... ha ha ha........... if you know the history correctly.

Anyway, lets move back ourselves to the Original Context of this thread....
 
G

gopi_vbboy

Cyborg Agent
Liverpool_fan said:
Don't tell people will have to "jailbreak" (?) the so called "secure (?) booting" to install a damn distro in their machines... :/

Nothing to worry about though, would be cracked in a matter of days regardless of anything.

Good article covering "secure boot"
UEFI and "secure boot" [LWN.net]
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Just askin as i know nothing of secure bootin...Cant grub or lilo be patched to allow boot to win8?
 
T

Tech&ME

Banned
^^
that's exactly the problem, why Microsoft is doing all this.

if only people can think something different then CRACKING !!!
 
Liverpool_fan

Liverpool_fan

Sami Hyypiä, LFC legend
gopi_vbboy said:
Just askin as i know nothing of secure bootin...Cant grub or lilo be patched to allow boot to win8?
Click to expand...

They can but practically Red Hat or Canonical will have to negotiate with hundreds or may be thousands of OEMs to get their keys approved, which is not a problem for Microsoft, but for any other competitor, it's something they will struggle big time.
Compounding the problems, GRUB2 is GPL3 licensed which will require any vendor using GPLv3 licensed software to publically release its key, and I am not sure whether a publically released key would be of comfort to any of the OEMs or whether they will really whitelist it. Mind you, there could be ways around this, the former is the most pressing concern anyway. Regardless of whether Canonical or Red Hat get themselves approved, community software like Linux Mint or your custom built distro will be locked out.
 
V

vaithy

In the zone
m$ IN 2011 IS NOT THE SAME m$ IN THE EARLY '80
shrinking volume of PC and Laptaps sales made hardware vendors use novell ways to remain in the game.. The rise of Tablets Pcs is another reason..
When Linux threaten with netbook invasion, immediately M$ responded , and force the hardware vendors to sales 'windows' only netbooks, thereby not only killing Linux in netbooks, even its own windows netbook sales.
"If my enemy lose one eye I am willing to lose my two eyes, " sort of Ballmer's ways showing his hatred kill both linux and Windows in the netbooks.
Acer , MSI who sided with Ballmer & CO is now scrabing for Android leftouts in the Tablets PC market..
Now the Market dynamics changed to mobility where Google and Apple is leading the way..
there is a news some where that 23" touch screen android is coming clearly this is the theater of War.
If the OEMs desire to side with M$ , than let them be buried in the deathmount of PC rubbles.
 
coderunknown

coderunknown

Retired Forum Mod
grab a lappy with Linux or no OS @ a lower price + 100% headache free computing.

"Windows: never works the way you want" should be the tagline of windows 8.

oh, also no Windows preloaded = no bloatware.
 
A

abhijangda

Padawan
^^^ absolutely correct. Microsoft has always used Windows, to expand its other products like IE. And then they faced a lawsuit. Same should happen with them now!!
 
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