Why Microsoft should fear Apple -Scot Finnie

[shantanu]

you need a solid answer gr8: Microsoft makes software for people , not for geeks and PROS... even a child can operate it.. and more than 85% people in world arent mad to buy windows.. and + Microsoft made computing easy by windows edition.. 3.1,95,98 2000 , XP and now Vista... you say Microsoft Copies From MAC, what did they copy a theme.. that you meant to say...

and how can you say that Linux is better than windows.. tell me the games which runs on Linux and that too just by double clicking the .exe, no they dont.. you say that windows is copied, give me a PROOF that the works by M$ is copied by macs , it will help me understand that why M$ is such a big company and APPLE isnt.. Dude.. being a FANBOY is very simple.. but the truth wont change by that... anyone will say that M$ is the biggest of all IT sector companies... but you thik its Apple.. Apple is a very good company.. i dont say its not.. but if you coapre it with M$ then it goes way behind it.. 4% is nothing to cover in worlds population...

If APPLES were so good then why they arent 80 % all over the world..

M$ discovered the Pnp Support, an infact

VISTA is the first OS which does not needs a BIOS to run... is apple having that feature... its M$ who developed it and all credits to Mr. B G, who made the company so well developed that it can build up softwares easy to use... and plus how many shipments a year APPLE gives free of cost.. to its customers.. can i download that RC type packages for free from apple.. SMALL hearted company... isnt it.. or they dont have that much money power to cope up with Piracy loss...

@arya.. you first say this kind of things and then say no hard feelings.. you guys never understand the words.. and i wont clearify everytime what i meant to say....

There is NO comparision of M$ to apple... this is the BASELINE

 

[iMav]

either iPods are the best music players in the market or Windows sucks! Choose whichever you want.

ipod currently leads the market because of 3 reasons ... it was first in the market to launch sucha product .... it has brand value .... people consider it more to be a status symbol and that because as said ipod was the first (if not first, first to cash in on the mp3 player concept) to come up with such a device and a lot of page 3 celebs started buying it ... i know of people who dont know how put vdos on their ipod but have a 60gig ipod, my fren in US bought the ipod simply coz every1 in his class owned 1 and not having 1 seemed a little awkward ...

only of the reasons holds true for MS windows ... its success can be attributed to a lot other reasons also

 

[aryayush]

i dis-agree and will under no circumsatnces say its the best its not coz i own it and my frenz own others so i can comment on the portable media player segment

Have a look at what Chris Taylor has to say about the iPod:

Of course, iPods now have a lot of functionality: they can display video, photos, and play games. But that doesn't mean consumers are using all these functions. Next time you're on a street or a bus in a busy city, count how many people are listening to iPods that are stashed away in pockets, identifiable only by their white earbuds. They just want to throw the computer away and be served audio treats.

That's why the iPod succeeded where its predecessor products bombed. Few people remember that the iPod was actually regarded as a Johnny-Come-Lately MP3 player with a too-small 5-gigabyte hard drive when it first came out - "we're pretty late to the party," CEO Steve Jobs admitted to me at the time.

But it was super easy, which larger competitors like the 20-gigabyte Rio Nomad weren't. My parents figured out how to use the iPod within five minutes. They didn't even want to pick up my Nomad. Nor, I instantly decided, did I.

It has fewer features but a much better user interface and it just works. You want a music player to listen to music and an iPod gives you the best music listening experience without any hassles. And it looks sexy while it does the job.

 

[gxsaurav]

^^^^^^^^^^^^ Windows + Sandisk Sansa or K750i = Best combination

 

[aryayush]

ipod currently leads the market because of 3 reasons ... it was first in the market to launch sucha product .... it has brand value .... people consider it more to be a status symbol and that because as said ipod was the first (if not first, first to cash in on the mp3 player concept) to come up with such a device and a lot of page 3 celebs started buying it ... i know of people who dont know how put vdos on their ipod but have a 60gig ipod, my fren in US bought the ipod simply coz every1 in his class owned 1 and not having 1 seemed a little awkward ...

only of the reasons holds true for MS windows ... its success can be attributed to a lot other reasons also

I can give you a string of excuses why Macs are not the dominant players in the market but I won't do so.

Whenever Windows supporters are cowed down by the superiority of Mac OS X, they come up with one standard excuse - look at the market share.

To you I say - "look at the market share".


And if you are going to logic and reason why iPods are not the best, then be prepared to face the same logic and reason about why Windows is not the best.

 

[iMav]

i have not said that the ipod isnt a success ... well its such a big success that at 1 point of time apple products were revolving around the ipod ... i said that its leading the market no doubt but its not because its the best pmp .... adn i have neither said that windows is the best we only say that its better than linux and mac ... thats all we dont say its the best only better than the best which for u may b mac and for others may be linux ...

again windows = not best, but certainly better than the rest ... superlative and comparative ..

 

[gxsaurav]

Yo guys, calm down. This is not fight club.

Whenever Windows supporters are cowed down by the superiority of Mac OS X, they come up with one standard excuse - look at the market share.

You just said that iPod has the biggest market share in mp3 players cos it is very easy to use & it just works. So, why doesn't this same reason applies to Windows for its success? Just cos it is from MS?

 

[iMav]

^^ bang on target ....

 

[aryayush]

Microsoft makes software for people , not for geeks and PROS...

That's a harsh statement, specially coming from a Microsoft supporter. Even I can tell you that Windows is both fairly easy to use and configurable for "for geeks and PROS". Don't degrade Windows more than it already is.

even a child can operate it..

Depends on his/her age though. And if he can use Windows, he can definitely use Mac OS X. This is the last time I am going to tell you, the whole world knows that Macs are easier to use when compared to Windows. And you have absolutely no right to judge on it because you have not used a Mac.

more than 85% people in world arent mad to buy windows..

Though I disagree, it logically follows that more than 63% people who buy music players arent mad to buy iPods. BTW, more than 50% of the people in the World don't even own a computer, leave alone buying Windows.

you say Microsoft Copies From MAC, what did they copy a theme.. that you meant to say...

"Microsoft has imitated literally hundreds of features and behaviors of Apple’s OS X." And this was not said by me, it was said by a long time user and very respected reviewer of Windows, Scot Finnie, who "finally saw the light". I am not saying it is wrong to copy though, I am just saying that they do. They are just, and have always been, playing catch-up with Apple. It is a fact. Face it, and get over it. You don't want me to start with a list of all the things they have copied in Vista.

and how can you say that Linux is better than windows.. tell me the games which runs on Linux and that too just by double clicking the .exe, no they dont

There is hardly any game in Windows that runs "just by double clicking the .exe". And just because Windows has a huge number of games does not make it a better OS than others. If you go by that argument, the operating system used in the Nintendo Wii is the best one in the world. I am not defending Linux, but your argument against is a pathetic one.

just by double clicking the .exeyou say that windows is copied, give me a PROOF that the works by M$ is copied by macs , it will help me understand that why M$ is such a big company and APPLE isnt

Windows Photo Gallery, Windows Movie Maker, Windows CD/DVD maker, Chess, Live Search, large scalable icons... I could go one for two days and three nights!

anyone will say that M$ is the biggest of all IT sector companies... but you thik its Apple

Who said that! Point me to that person and I'll personally whack him with a stick.

4% is nothing to cover in worlds population...

Actually, Apple does not even cover 0.5% of the "worlds population".

If APPLES were so good then why they arent 80 % all over the world..

Because there are more donkeys than horses - and unfortunately, more idiots than intelligent people.

VISTA is the first OS which does not needs a BIOS to run

Oh really? Could you elaborate please? I really need a judge's ruling on this one. Please elaborate!

and plus how many shipments a year APPLE gives free of cost.. to its customers.. can i download that RC type packages for free from apple..

Last I knew, there have been nine "RC type packages for free from apple" for Mac OS X 10.4 "Tiger" alone, in a duration of two years. "SMALL hearted company" indeed.

You just said that iPod has the biggest market share in mp3 players cos it is very easy to use & it just works. So, why doesn't this same reason applies to Windows for its success? Just cos it is from MS?

I am the one who is saying this. Accept one. EITHER
Windows is the best because it has a greater market share than all the competitors put together and iPod is the best because it has a greater market share than all the competitors put together.

OR
Windows sucks but it became popular for one reason (read excuse) or the other and iPod sucks but it became popular for one reason (read excuse) or the other.

You choose one of the too. Either Windows and iPod rock, or both suck.


@mAV3, you have achieved quite a feat. I never thought I would come across someone with poorer knowledge of English than gx_saurav.
Better than the rest is not equal to best? How come Answers.com says that best means "surpassing all others in excellence, achievement, or quality"?

Windows is not the best but it is better than all other operating systems. Right? That does not make it the best?

 

[shantanu]

first of all arya !! i wrote all this not to you but to nepcker.. and if you say then...

let me tell you that i am never opposing apple but opposing the thoughts which are wrong..

i again say quoting me can never solve an issue , but why you post such flamable topics... this thread is started by you... and the TOPIC name is offensive itself.. wont elaborate on anything.. nor i will reply again to this thread... but You yourself think that what i was talkign about i dont i will talk about the cats and dogs using comp.

The Overall Worlds population who uses Comp this was what i mean...

leaving......

 

[aryayush]

Leave if you wish to but clarify this for me:
"VISTA is the first OS which does not needs a BIOS to run"

What does this mean? Please!

First of all, the title of the topic is NOT offensive. You are hyper-sensitive and offended by nearly everything that is done or said by anyone. India is a democracy and everyone has the right to freedom of speech. (My civics teacher would have been so proud of me today! )

And anyway, the title is not framed by me, it is the original title of the opinion piece. And I repeat, it is NOT offensive by any standards - unless Microsoft is the name of your significant other!

And let me tell you why you are so keen to leave the thread on your way out, you simply have no answer to my logically accurate post. I understand. I do the same thing when I am outwitted.

Make sure you close the door when you leave and don't hurt yourself. It opens outward and hinges back.

 

[shantanu]

The thing is that : when you turn your computer on you see the black screen and words scroll by, then, finally, the Vista startup sound... But, there's a good deal of code that runs in this preOS environment, much of it composed in languages you've probably never written (like 16-Bit Real Mode code). What does the BIOS do, anyway? Why do we need a BIOS? Vista can run without a BIOS: It supports UEFI.

UEFI :

UEFI is a technically superior solution to use for boot compared to BIOS. UEFI is well-specified and is a testable interface that will improve system compatibility and reliability. Architecturally, UEFI allows the transition away from real-mode 16-bit code that is common in BIOS. Its agility will improve time to market for platforms and will allow new scenarios to be developed in future release of Windows.

However, because BIOS boot is ingrained into all existing x86 and x64 deployments, Microsoft will continue to support BIOS-based boot for the foreseeable future. If UEFI becomes a well-established standard for booting systems, then Microsoft might consider a gradual transition away from BIOS-based boot support. It is likely that this transition would initially take the form of implementing only some features on UEFI systems.

*www.microsoft.com/whdc/system/platform/firmware/efibrief.mspx

 

[aryayush]

I expected this. Yet again you prove that you have absolutely zero knowledge about Macs. You like Windows, use it. Advocate its use, no one is stopping you. But please do not spread misinformation like "VISTA is the first OS which does not needs a BIOS to run". Mac OS X "does not needs a BIOS to run" either. It uses EFI.

 

[shantanu]

But that too windows 2003 used EFI 1.1 which was then adopted by MACs, i suppose , but VISTA uses UEFi 2.0, that i way better and " its claimed that Vista is the first ever OS which does not needs a BIOS to RUN" while all others do , coz there was no development on it from any other company....

and Vista is first ever... remember that,,, and first search thouroughly... coz UEFI and EFI different, i aspects of BIOS usage....

i will post some more facts in few days about Apple adopting M$ technology of UEFI... but i need proof for that so i will give you that too... wait and watch.. till my MAC comes.. i now desperately want to see why you argue so much for MACS...

 

[aryayush]

I don't know who adopted from whom, but I do know that Mac OS X has been using EFI since the day it was launched (in 2001) and it had been in development as far back as 1991. I am hundred percent sure Mac OS X used EFI before Windows because Windows XP uses the BIOS and even it was launched after Mac OS X.

What is Windows 2003, BTW?

And since Mac OS X has been using EFI for a long time, Vista is not "the first OS which does not needs a BIOS to run."

I hope I won't have to repeat that again.

 

[shantanu]

you will have to repeat this again coz .. M$ has claimed on basis of UEFI that

" Microsoft windows Vista is the first ever OS that does not needs a BIOS to run... "

and i again say that search EFI and UEFI... you will come to know the difference...

and i mean Server 2003

and ya i am chilled out..

 

[gxsaurav]

They are just, and have always been, playing catch-up with Apple. It is a fact. Face it, and get over it. You don't want me to start with a list of all the things they have copied in Vista.

now what to say , Time machine, Hardware accelerated Umm....System Restore, GDI+...does it rings a bell

Windows Photo Gallery, Windows Movie Maker, Windows CD/DVD maker, Chess, Live Search, large scalable icons... I could go one for two days and three nights!

Windows Picture & fax viewer of XP combined with XP explorer thumbnail view , or ACDSee or IrfanView, or Picasa.....there are so many apps which do the same thing, then technically all of these also copied iPhoto right?

Windows Movie maker was relesed long before iDVD or iMovie.

Windows CD\DVD Maker = Was there in Windows XP already in form of CD Burner, but for Data disk only, what we now have in Vista is just modified version of it. Again, not a copy of Apple...oh comon, nero was relesed in 1999 already boy.

Live search = Shown in longhorn 4xxx builds long before it was copied by Apple in form of spotlight

Large scalable Icons = It is there since Windows 98.

That list you are talking about doesn't exist.

Because there are more donkeys than horses - and unfortunately, more idiots than intelligent people

Reported for abusing other OS users.

Oh really? Could you elaborate please? I really need a judge's ruling on this one. Please elaborate!

Vista is made with BIOS as well as EFI in mind. it works with both fine. It isn't that hard to install Vista on a Mac without boot camp, hell... Vista ultimate or bussiness edition even support the TPM chip found in Mac's motherboard & they supported it long before apple made the switch to Intel CPU

@mAV3, you have achieved quite a feat. I never thought I would come across someone with poorer knowledge of English than gx_saurav.

Reported , personal comment. Tarey was right, when you have nothing valid to speak, you start your english Rants. here is the thing boy, you have no idea why I do these mistakes right? You find it amusing, good, thats intended. Ask those who know me about my english.

I don't know who adopted from whom, but I do know that Mac OS X has been using EFI since the day it was launched (in 2001) and it had been in development as far back as 1991. I am hundred percent sure Mac OS X used EFI before Windows because Windows XP uses the BIOS and even it was launched after Mac OS X.

And since Mac OS X has been using EFI for a long time, Vista is not "the first OS which does not needs a BIOS to run."

:ROFL , ha ha, i just cant stop laughing boy. EFI was advocated by Intel & AMD, & in 2001 when MacOS 10.0 relesed, the concept of EFI was not even on paper. Who told you this anyway...lolz. Stop being such an ass boy, kabhi to factful words kaha kar. You are really a blind apple believer if you say PowerPC G5 & G4 used EFI . They used normal OEM BIOS. You started using Apple when it became affordable after the switch to Intel, there are many users in this forum who are using it since PowerPC G3 (ibook) days.

EFI was first implemented in Macbook & Macbook pro in 2006, & it is coming to PC with Intel santarosa. In 1991, no one even thought of EFI cos it was not even required back then. Lolz.....I pity your half knowledge.

 

[aryayush]

now what to say , Time machine, Hardware accelerated Umm....System Restore, GDI+...does it rings a bell

Ho hum!
Leave alone Microsoft, show me something like Time Machine made by ANY other company.

Macs have been using hardware acceleration ever since the beginning of OS X, if I am not wrong - which I may be.

System Restore, I'll give you that. It is a wonderful feature of Windows that I would have loved to have in Tiger. Thankfully, we'll be getting it with Leopard.

GDI+ = What is that?

Windows Picture & fax viewer of XP combined with XP explorer thumbnail view , or ACDSee or IrfanView, or Picasa.....there are so many apps which do the same thing, then technically all of these also copied iPhoto right

Windows Photo Gallery couldn't have been more similar to iPhoto had it been run through a photocopier - which, come to think of it, it most probably has been.

Windows Movie maker was relesed long before iDVD or iMovie.

But the version in Vista heavily borrows a number of features from iMovie.

Windows CD\DVD Maker = Was there in Windows XP already in form of CD Burner, but for Data disk only, what we now have in Vista is just modified version of it. Again, not a copy of Apple

When I launched the program, I thought for a second that it might have been iDVD with a glassy interface. It is exactly the same, though iDVD has better templates to choose from.

Live search = Shown in longhorn 4xxx builds long before it was copied by Apple in form of spotlight

The world saw it first on Tiger, two years before Windows.

Large scalable Icons = it is there since Windows 98.

Oh yeah! Do you have any idea what you are talking about! Why not just go ahead and say that its been there since Windows 3.1? Or even 1.0? Maybe even in DOS!

You have obviously used neither iDVD, nor iMovie or iPhoto or even a Mac. Why do you keep making things up then!

That list you are talking about doesn't exist.

Yeah, it doesn't - for you. Be happy.

:ROFL , ha ha, i just cant stop laughing boy. EFI was advocated by Intel & AMD, & in 2001 when MacOS 10.0 relesed, the concept of EFI was not even on paper. Who told you this anyway...lolz. Stop being such an ass boy, kabhi to factful words kaha kar. You are really a blind apple believer if you say PowerPC G5 & G4 used EFI . They used normal OEM BIOS. You started using Apple when it became affordable after the switch to Intel, there are many users in this forum who are using it since PowerPC G3 (ibook) days.

EFI was first implemented in Macbook & Macbook pro in 2006, & it is coming to PC with Intel santarosa. In 1991, no one even thought of EFI cos it was not even required back then. Lolz.....I pity your half knowledge.

Yeah, I am sorry! This was a stupid mistake and I will admit it any day that I really have very limited knowledge about hardware. Sorry!
Vista is still not the first OS that runs without a BIOS though.

Reported for abusing other OS users.

Yay! WOW! gx_saurav has learned a new feature. Maybe they'll even miserable me for it. Buy yourself a candy from me if that happens.

Reported , personal comment. Tarey was right, when you have nothing valid to speak, you start your english Rants. here is the thing boy, you have no idea why I do these mistakes right? You find it amusing, good, thats intended. Ask those who know me about my english.

Yeah, I am so interested to know the reason why you spell 'simplicity' as 'simplysity'!
Dude, you are not that important. Get over it.

 

[shantanu]

Originally Posted by Aryayush
System Restore. It is a wonderful feature of Windows that I would have loved to have in Tiger. Thankfully, we'll be getting it with Leopard

i will not say anything else... but just this.. from when did Apple started Copying Windows Features... just this... that even Windows Me supported System Restore

No offense

 

[aryayush]

Every now and then, someone at Microsoft is hit by a stroke of genius. It is wise for Apple to copy these features, but Apple is at most times stubborn and refuses to do so. It is a negative point. They should embrace the good features as soon as they hit the market.

Likewise, Microsoft should do the same and it does.

But there is very little innovation at Microsoft. They basically just copy all of Mac OS X's features - and even implement some of them in a very poor way.
Which brings us back to the conclusion that Mac OS X is definitely a superior product when compared to Windows.